![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnQ on October 29, 2002, at 22:53:40
Everytime I read about SAMe dosing protocols it mentions taking 1600mg. four times per day, which to me is very inconvenient. I was wondering if taking 800mg twice per day would work just as well, or can your body only absorb a certain amount per dose? Or is more than 400mgs per dose just too much for most stomachs to handle? Anybody know the reason for this? I'd rather not experiment with such an expensive substance. Thanks.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 7:31:35
In reply to SAMe question, posted by JohnQ on October 29, 2002, at 22:53:40
> Everytime I read about SAMe dosing protocols it mentions taking 1600mg. four times per day, which to me is very inconvenient.
You mean 1600 mg total, taken as 400 mg, 4 times a day?
>I was wondering if taking 800mg twice per day would work just as well, or can your body only absorb a certain amount per dose? Or is more than 400mgs per dose just too much for most stomachs to handle? Anybody know the reason for this? I'd rather not experiment with such an expensive substance. Thanks.
SAMe has a very short half-life. It doesn't last very long in your blood. You'll minimize the 'peak and valley' effect if you take it four times a day. It's really the total dose that matters, as far as effectiveness goes.
Frankly, betaine will do you more good, and costs a lot less money.
Larry
Posted by catmint on October 31, 2002, at 1:55:03
In reply to Re: SAMe question, posted by Larry Hoover on October 30, 2002, at 7:31:35
Larry, what is betaine and how do you know it is better than sam-e
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 9:01:47
In reply to Re: SAMe question » Larry Hoover, posted by catmint on October 31, 2002, at 1:55:03
> Larry, what is betaine and how do you know it is better than sam-e
Betaine is an amino acid found in beets (Latin beta). It is also known by its chemical name, trimethylglycine (or TMG). It is sold as its hydrochloride salt (betaine HCl) to improve digestive function, but you don't want that. You want betaine free-base, or anhydrous betaine. I use Source Naturals brand.
Dietary betaine induces the activity of an enzyme that recycles homocysteine into methionine (called, quite logically, betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase), by transferring a methyl group from TMG to homocysteine, making it into methionine.
There is a dominant pathway which does the same thing, involving folate and vitamin B-12, but there are various possible reasons why it might not work right. Anyway, your body needs to recycle homocysteine because it's part of a loop that looks like this:
methionine --> S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe) --> another chemical --> homocysteine --> methionine.
Depressed people often get stuck at homocysteine. Homocysteine is a risk factor for heart disease, and may be the reason why depressed people are predisposed to heart disease. Anyway, the excess homocysteine builds up, while SAMe levels go down. SAMe is necessary for a whole host of biological processes, including the formation of the enzymes that make neurotransmitters.
What you want to do is intervene in this stalled recycling loop, and you can do that in a number of ways. 1. You can take SAMe. The negatives to this are that it increases the homocysteine burden, and it's bloody expensive. 2. Take lots of B-vitamins. This is good for anyone under stress, anyway. However, if your inherent problem is poor utilization of B-vitamins, you might not get the benefits very effectively. 3. Take betaine. It activates an entirely separate process to recycle homocysteine.
You need methionine to make SAMe in your liver. You have to get it from somewhere.
The risks of taking betaine are the same as the risks of taking SAMe (because betaine promotes natural SAMe). There is a risk of developing mania. Personally, betaine induces insomnia. I take little pulses (500 mg or 1,000 mg) no more frequently than every fourth day. That's *my* titrated dose. I know people who take 3,000 mg every day. If you take it, pay attention to your own reaction, and dose accordingly.
There are other benefits of betaine, but that's enough for one message.
Lar
Posted by catmint on October 31, 2002, at 12:50:00
In reply to Re: SAMe question, posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 9:01:47
Posted by Bill L on October 31, 2002, at 13:09:09
In reply to SAMe question, posted by JohnQ on October 29, 2002, at 22:53:40
Richard Brown is a Columbia University (New York) psychiatrist who wrote a book on SAM-e. For doses up to 400 mg, he says to take it all in the morning. For larger doses, he recommends splitting between first thing in morning, and early afternoon. The problem with an evening dose is that it can cause insomnia.
It should always be taken on an empty stomach; at least a couple hours after a meal, and at least 2 hours before the next meal if possible. Also take B6 and B12 daily if you take SAM-e.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 13:13:47
In reply to Re: Thank you, I'll give it a try! (nm), posted by catmint on October 31, 2002, at 12:50:00
Ummm, what's the (nm) mean?
Posted by catmint on October 31, 2002, at 21:25:59
In reply to Re: Thank you, I'll give it a try!, posted by Larry Hoover on October 31, 2002, at 13:13:47
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.