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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
I've just been to a shrink for my chronic anxiety/insomnia/pain. Because I have had no success with AD's in the past, he says I should go on clonazepam, probably for the rest of my life. I am 48 now. Will clonazepam continue to work for the next 30 years??? I am soooo afraid the drug will poop out and leave me with insomnia that will drive me to suicide. (I have a phobia of insomnia--it is my worst nightmare and the source of countless anxiety attacks and sleepless nights.
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2002, at 23:00:24
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
Hmmm. I assume you've discussed your concerns with your doctor?
I just have my own experience to base my opinion on, but I've been on Klonopin for over 5 years, and it's working now as well as ever at the same dose.
I've dropped every antidepressant I've ever been on, and I take a minimal amount of mood stabilizer.
But I love my Klonopin. Wouldn't give it up for the world. For anxiety, it works better than anything, with fewer side effects.
Of course, your mileage may vary. This is just my experience. Etc. :)
Posted by judy1 on August 25, 2002, at 13:01:28
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
I have to agree with Dinah on this, I've taken klonopin for 4+ years and my doc has had patients on benzos for 20 years with no poop-out. I also question how a pdoc can tell someone they have to be on a drug forever- are you doing any type of therapy to develope coping skills for your disorder(s)? take care, judy
Posted by Jackd on August 25, 2002, at 17:57:14
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
I had some of the same reservations when I first started Klonopin. From what I've gathered from most doctors I've talked to and older folks who have been on it forever, its effects don't generally fade.
If insomnia is a big problem, you might want to try Remeron too, which happens to not only be awesome for sleep and depression, but also for anxiety and to some extent pain.
Posted by johnj on August 25, 2002, at 22:37:43
In reply to Re: Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Jackd on August 25, 2002, at 17:57:14
the klonopin to start. I doubt it will make it worse. benzo's saved my life. I would like to switch to klonopin since I heard it has AD properities.
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2002, at 22:46:56
In reply to remeron = sponge brain feeling for me, go with » Jackd, posted by johnj on August 25, 2002, at 22:37:43
> the klonopin to start. I doubt it will make it worse. benzo's saved my life. I would like to switch to klonopin since I heard it has AD properities.
Well, I love Klonopin, but in my experience it has no AD properties other than the obvious one of relieving anxiety and thus reducing depression related to anxiety. Occasionally I find I get slightly depressed after taking a daytime dose, most of the time it has no affect on my mood at all - just on anxiety.
Of course, everyone is different, and you might well experience Klonopin differently.
Posted by oracle on August 25, 2002, at 23:40:58
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
I would not decide to not take a med based on what
"might" happen. I wpuld never leave the house
if I fixated on all the bad stuff that "might"
happen. I think it is better to deal with things when they happen.
Posted by cybercafe on August 26, 2002, at 2:22:30
In reply to remeron = sponge brain feeling for me, go with » Jackd, posted by johnj on August 25, 2002, at 22:37:43
is the sponge brain the same feeling that you get on atypical antipsychotics? ... i'm trying to find a drug that will give me that without movement disorders ....
i was considering remeron, hoping the 5HT2 antagonism would.. uh... make me dumb like antipsychotics :) .... relieve rumination/obsession/thinking too much
Posted by Jackd on August 26, 2002, at 2:43:31
In reply to i want a sponge brain johnj, posted by cybercafe on August 26, 2002, at 2:22:30
I don't know exactly what john meant by sponge brain, but I think Remeron definitely settles my mind more than any med. This is especially true for nagging, loopy or very dark disturbing thoughts. Mood stabilizers I've tried work good for that too, as does Klonopin. Klonopin pulls you away from your inner self so to speak. I'd say if you want to completely knock out "thinking too much" take Lamictal, Klonopin, and Remeron. Let me tell you, I've tried this combo and it was the sh*t for out of control thoughts. In fact, for the first time I could actually meditate. Unfortunately I would still cycle on this cocktail and plummet towards depression after hypomania. But I realize now I experience this with any AD.
From the posts of yours I've read I remember you having pretty similar problems as me, including what I could only describe in the past as "thinking too much" for my own good. Do you find you can think much more clearly when drunk? Anyway, good luck.
Posted by johnj on August 26, 2002, at 20:22:30
In reply to i want a sponge brain johnj, posted by cybercafe on August 26, 2002, at 2:22:30
I have never taken antipsychotic meds so I couldn't tell you, but remeron is tough to explain. It did good things, but the heavy fuzzy headed stuff was too much.
Posted by mair on August 26, 2002, at 20:36:37
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
Guy - I'd just like to echo what everyone else has been saying. Until very recently, I took klonopin for at least 5+ years, always at a pretty low dose before I went to bed. Since lack of sleep is a real depression trigger for me, I wouldn't think of trying to sleep without it. When it felt like my normal dose wasn't going to do the trick, I'd increase it for a few days and I never had any trouble bringing it back down again when I felt more settled.
Recently, I've started taking amitriptylene to augment my other AD, wellbutrin. The amitriptylene was sedating enough so I had to cut out the klonopin. I wouldn't ever hesitate to go back to it however.
Mair
Posted by cybercafe on August 26, 2002, at 22:58:43
In reply to Re: Afraid to start clonazepam » Guy, posted by mair on August 26, 2002, at 20:36:37
yeah it's weird what lack of sleep does...if i obsess or ruminate on how i am sleepy and need sleep but can't get it ... arg! there is major emotional turmoil... just a constant nagging ache ... of sleepiness i can't shake... and that conflict... of wanting to sleep... feeling like.. you need to sleep.. but your body is working against you... that is what's tough... when you feel like you don't want what's best for you.... when different parts of yourself are fighting one another... in conflict...
that's inner turmoilBUT if i feel like it would be nice to stay up and get things done, or wake up early and get things done.. and think about it more positively.... i get some nice hypomania ...
i think.. how many cool things i can do... and how wonderful it is that i am now awake while ____ activity is happening, .. and instead of staying home cuz there's nothing to do.. i can go out and participate in ___ and ___ and ____ while they're happening ... very exciting! .. and fun !
Posted by Guy on August 27, 2002, at 0:02:41
In reply to Re: Afraid to start clonazepam » mair, posted by cybercafe on August 26, 2002, at 22:58:43
Thanks everyone for your feedback. This sounds very encouraging...it's tremendously difficult for a worry wart like me to remain unaffected by all the "benzo horror stories" on the net.
Posted by Squiggles on August 27, 2002, at 8:41:29
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
Don't be afraid to start it - just
be careful and speak to your doctor
if you want to get off it. There are
as many pro-benzo sites - maybe more - as
anti (take a look at alt.support.panic-anxiety
for example);Had i not tried to get off it when i
joined the benzo group, i would have had
no problem and saved a couple of yrs of
net work. The Xanax was different but
as i said i had help from two very good
doctors with a schedule to get off.Squiggles
Posted by Simcha on August 27, 2002, at 21:29:23
In reply to Afraid to start clonazepam, posted by Guy on August 24, 2002, at 21:37:54
Guy,
I've been taking clonazepam for the past nine months. I use it to stop my teeth grinding at night. The last pdoc has had me on a dose of 1mg before bed.
I have occasionally forgotten to take it before going to bed. This drug is supposed to be addictive and at this low dose of 1mg I've found no withdrawal symptoms for missing one night. I just remember to take it the next night (I don't want my grinding to come back.)
Anyway, I think it all depends on whether or not one is easily addicted to substances to begin with. They say that alcoholics and drug addicts tend to love clonazepam so much that they cannot stop using it without serious problems... I don't know.
I seem to be fine on this low dose and I do not shake if I miss a dose. Therefore I'm not as afraid of the drug as when I first began to take it. I was also afraid it would produce cognitive dulling.
I've gone back to school and I'm on my way to getting an MA in Counseling Psychology with a specialization in Transpersonal Psychology. So far, this quarter I'm set up for straight A's. Therefore the fear of cognitive dulling has subsided for me.
Clonazepam has helped alleviate my anxiety disorder of teeth grinding at night. It continues to work after nine months and so far it has not pooped out. At first I felt a little buzzed during the day and after about three weeks on it that side effect went away. Now it just stops my teeth from grinding.
I hope this helps...
Simcha
Posted by shar on August 28, 2002, at 1:15:08
In reply to Re: Afraid to start clonazepam » Guy, posted by Simcha on August 27, 2002, at 21:29:23
>They say that alcoholics and drug addicts tend to love clonazepam so much that they cannot stop using it without serious problems... I don't know.
>Nothing personal to the author, here, I just get concerned when I see things like this, being fond of alcohol myself (and sober over a decade). And my comments are from the perspective of people who have sobriety, not those actively using or abusing drugs.
People sometimes forget that if a med is working properly, and being taken properly, it is not giving the person the kind of buzz or altered state of consciousness that is achieved by abusing alcohol or other drugs.
However, LOTS of docs and therapists out there think if they give something to an alkie or drug abuser that is the least bit addicting, it will throw them right back into re-abusing meds.
Take Ativan or Vistaril, I've used these for axiety. Taking the right dosage alleviates panic and anxiety for me. It makes me "normal" again (such as I am when normal). It does not give the buzz, or sense of euphoria, or make me giggly and uninhibited.
Given that so many psych meds do have abuse potential, it puts the alkie in a bad spot and often he or she gets prescribed some lame low-bid alternative that doesn't work for beans. Very frustrating.
I take Klonopin at night to help with sleep. I don't take it at any other time, unless I clear it with my doc first (such as when I was in Effexor withdrawal). I don't crave it, yearn for it, think about my next fix of it; it just helps me sleep. And, it might be very hard to get off of, because I've known non-drug-abusers that had a powerfully difficult time doing it (but they cold turkeyed it).
This goes along with another belief that I've come across in the general population that ADs cause the user that buzz/sense of euphoria. Now, I wouldn't necessarily complain if it did, but what ADs do is alleviate the symptoms of depression (when they work), and don't provide any illicit pleasure. At least mine haven't. But, still the myth continues.
Just a tangent rant out of concern for people who have sobered up, and still get third rate treatment options.
Shar
Posted by alan on August 29, 2002, at 0:26:28
In reply to Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty), posted by shar on August 28, 2002, at 1:15:08
Posted by hildi on August 29, 2002, at 22:33:00
In reply to Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty), posted by shar on August 28, 2002, at 1:15:08
Posted by Simcha on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:59
In reply to Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty), posted by shar on August 28, 2002, at 1:15:08
> >They say that alcoholics and drug addicts tend to love clonazepam so much that they cannot stop using it without serious problems... I don't know.
> >Shar,
Thank you for the information below. I think that the words "I don't know" in my post above say it all for me. I wasn't even attempting to make a judgement on what is appropriate for chemical addicts. I'm not a pdoc.
I am a recovering sex addict/sexual-obsessive/compulsive. Thus I do have the addict personality. I take Clonazepam. There is some potential for abuse if I have not dealt with my issues.
I was just trying to reassure the person who started this thread from my experience that Clonazepam is not addictive for me. I was trying to help him alleviate his fears around using the drug which has helped me greatly.
Thanks for your concern! :)
Simcha
>
> Nothing personal to the author, here, I just get concerned when I see things like this, being fond of alcohol myself (and sober over a decade). And my comments are from the perspective of people who have sobriety, not those actively using or abusing drugs.
>
> People sometimes forget that if a med is working properly, and being taken properly, it is not giving the person the kind of buzz or altered state of consciousness that is achieved by abusing alcohol or other drugs.
>
> However, LOTS of docs and therapists out there think if they give something to an alkie or drug abuser that is the least bit addicting, it will throw them right back into re-abusing meds.
>
> Take Ativan or Vistaril, I've used these for axiety. Taking the right dosage alleviates panic and anxiety for me. It makes me "normal" again (such as I am when normal). It does not give the buzz, or sense of euphoria, or make me giggly and uninhibited.
>
> Given that so many psych meds do have abuse potential, it puts the alkie in a bad spot and often he or she gets prescribed some lame low-bid alternative that doesn't work for beans. Very frustrating.
>
> I take Klonopin at night to help with sleep. I don't take it at any other time, unless I clear it with my doc first (such as when I was in Effexor withdrawal). I don't crave it, yearn for it, think about my next fix of it; it just helps me sleep. And, it might be very hard to get off of, because I've known non-drug-abusers that had a powerfully difficult time doing it (but they cold turkeyed it).
>
> This goes along with another belief that I've come across in the general population that ADs cause the user that buzz/sense of euphoria. Now, I wouldn't necessarily complain if it did, but what ADs do is alleviate the symptoms of depression (when they work), and don't provide any illicit pleasure. At least mine haven't. But, still the myth continues.
>
> Just a tangent rant out of concern for people who have sobered up, and still get third rate treatment options.
>
> Shar
Posted by shar on August 31, 2002, at 15:09:32
In reply to Re: Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty) » shar, posted by Simcha on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:59
> >
> > Nothing personal to the author, here,Sincha,
I think the "nothing personal to the author" part in what I wrote says it for me, plus I didn't direct my post back to you (add name of previous poster). I literally and fully meant that my response was NOT a personal one to you or for you or against you; and wanted to let people know that my response was about something beyond the content of the post you wrote (thus I put "ranty" in the title).It is hard to write a post that includes something someone wrote, but try to make it clear the post is NOT aimed at them.
You were being a supportive and responsive poster to someone who had concerns and you clearly stated the "I don't know" part, and I hope I didn't give you the idea that my post was directed at you. I did everything I could think of to try to prevent you from feeling that my post was an attack on you.
Shar
Posted by hildi on August 31, 2002, at 18:38:59
In reply to Re: Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty) » shar, posted by Simcha on August 30, 2002, at 10:36:59
the klonopin I am on, or the Ativan, than from any of my ad's I've been on. I get no buzz at all from Klon or Ativan.
I am a recovering alcoholic and this was a concern for me, but this turned out to be a needless worry.
hildi
Posted by Simcha on August 31, 2002, at 20:32:53
In reply to Re: Alkies and benzos...and other drugs, too (ranty) » Simcha, posted by shar on August 31, 2002, at 15:09:32
Shar,
No sweat. I knew it was not directed at me per se. You provided some very good information about the mistreatment of addicts at the hands of specialists.
Thanks,
Simcha
This is the end of the thread.
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