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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by IsoM on June 15, 2002, at 22:33:13
In reply to Re: Profit Driven Industries » IsoM, posted by omega man on June 15, 2002, at 21:30:25
I wasn't responding to the original post but making a comment on alternative treatments in general. Not to say that some aren't good but like everything else, it has to be weighed against what is known to be absolutely true & factual, & what is new & hypothetical. Based on what information we can dig up, a person needs to make a reasonable decision whether to try something or not.
About omega-3 oils, there's real science there, but there's not enough we know about it all yet. But I think people may be jumping the gun a little too fast. In trying to isolate just certain types of fats, other valuable lipids may be missed. When something new is learned, people tend to get overly hopeful that this new discovery is the answer to so many different ills. Trying to take only 'good' fatty acids & avoiding some of what's considered 'bad' (no, I don't mean obviously bad like trans-fatty acids like hydrogenated fats i.e. Crisco) but those like arachidonic acid is sometimes considered 'bad' as it forms more pro-inflammatory prostaglandins rather than the anti-inflammatory ones. But everything in the body needs to be balanced with an opposite. It's the balance that's most important, to not lean too far in one direction than another.
Remember when butter, tea, coffee, chocolate, eggs, milk etc were all considered bad foods? But 'new' evidence shows their benefits after all. I believe the same may be true of many fats & trying to separate some fatty acids from others & take more of those new 'good' ones may instead cause other problems not now known about.
CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) has now got researchers' interest. Where is it found? In animal fats (though not grain-fed animals). How much more will we learn? Vitamins, minerals, & amino acids are somewhat better understood as they've been researched & tested longer, but the study of lipids & their effects on health is pretty new. We honestly don't know enough about lipids & all the roles they play in our bodies. There's quite a few studies being done on CLA & its effects on people & animals right now. More is being learned all the time & retractions of what was previously accepted is being done frequently. What other types of lipids will be discovered to have protective effects on human health?
Time & time again, it comes back that eating a good, balanced diet with variety is the best preventative medicine of all. Only trouble is that trying to find truly natural unadulterated foods has become more & more difficult, not to mention expensive, unless you have your own land & farm. And people like convenience. They're willing to pay more money for foods that don't taste as good & are often unhealthy for us for the convenience. Cooking really healthy AND tasty meals is time-consuming. Yet we can't think we can get what we need by taking more supplements instead. (By the way, CLA capsules seem to be less than 50% effective as compared with natural CLA in foods & FAR more expensive, of course.)
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 0:31:56
In reply to Re: In Defense of Science » Cam W., posted by omega man on June 15, 2002, at 21:26:46
Where could one find a cheap, effective source of Omega-3 with "proper" EPA/DHA ratio -- and how woudl you go about finding a helpful dosage?
Will adding ground flax seed to my diet help?
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:09:12
In reply to Cheap source, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 0:31:56
I've got flax seed in the fridge...its not been opened since I tried it ages ago....the effect is slight and its horrible on the guts..
For brain problems..it did nought for me..but a ten minute awareness enhancement.
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:22:01
In reply to Essential Lipids » omega man, posted by IsoM on June 15, 2002, at 22:33:13
The body might need to be balanced..a perfect body and brain usually is...which may be the average genome..but what we end up as calls for extremes as we all know...
I suppose my problem is i feel passionately similarly to the guy who is advocating Nuerology replacing psychiatry...because he has had enough of the psycho-drivel and seeing it take slices out his life and sanity ..
Perhaps you have to experience omega 3..to understand why I get so heated...it cured me of Schizo-affective disorder...I can stand in a crowded street or be in a room of people and just take everything in when I get enough omega 3..also my mood is stable...nothing else touches that...and eating a balanced diet would'nt help..i'm eating the equivalant of 6 salmon a day..
Jesus had schizophrenia and he was a fisherman.. what better peer testing can you ask for than the son of god ??
Posted by IsoM on June 16, 2002, at 3:18:22
In reply to Re: Jesus took fish oil » IsoM, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:22:01
I'm not disputing that omega-3 oils have helped you nor am I disputing that it may help many others too. All I'm saying is that a good balanced diet is the best way to go *IF* we could really get what we need from foods. Unfortunately, few of us can find foods that provide us with what we need. And I'm assuming that that a good diet is more a maintenence thing to keep us healthy rather than to 'cure' us - we'd need to be already physically sound to begin with (which few of us really are).
Heck, I take lipid supplements myself - flax oil & fish oils because I don't think we can get all we need from our diet & because my appetite isn't that big any more. I couldn't eat enough. But I want to make sure I keep my diet good & don't rely just on supplements for my nutritional needs. I've seen too many people with absolutely crappy diets think they can keep healthy by popping some extra vitamins & such. But if you're concerned about your health, mental & otherwise, you probably already do eat good.
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 11:27:32
In reply to Re: Cheap source » Bookgurl99, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:09:12
> I've got flax seed in the fridge...its not been opened since I tried it ages ago....the effect is slight and its horrible on the guts..
>
> For brain problems..it did nought for me..but a ten minute awareness enhancement.Okay -- then, getting back to the original question, where have you found a cheap, reliable source of Omega-3's?
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 11:28:41
In reply to Re: Cheap source » Bookgurl99, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:09:12
Posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
In reply to Can we stop beating a dead horse here? (nm), posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 11:28:41
I believe that Omega 3 may play a big role in the treatment of mental illness. I have been taking it for a week and I can see some improvement. As far as I know, there are barely any side effects if any, if consumed in high dosages eg. 4-8 grams. Why don't some of us start our own semi-controlled study. We can begin taking a certain amount and report every 2-3 days.
I know it is not scientific, but I don't think pharmaceutical companys are going to do it. Could you imagine the millions in revenue lost if this worked.
Anyways, I am beginning to feel better and thought this could be a little experiment some of us could do. A lot of members in this group seem to know about research and such, maybe someone could design the study.P.S Getting off the subject, I agree in the suspension of the neurology guy. There is no need for foul language. But in my humble opinion he has made more sense than many retarded doctors I've known.
I am going on vacation for a week so won't be able to read posts. In case this takes off I will get back with you in a week.;)
Deli
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 14:24:51
In reply to Re: I have an idea, posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
>In order for this to work, we'll need a readily comparable source -- will everyone use Omega-3 capsules from Walmart? Or what?
Posted by JonW on June 16, 2002, at 16:27:20
In reply to Re: I have an idea, posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
>dosages eg. 4-8 grams. Why don't some of us start our own semi-controlled study. We can begin taking a certain amount and report every 2-3 days. I know it is not scientific, but I don't think pharmaceutical companys are going to do it. Could you imagine the millions in revenue lost if this worked.
Hi deli,
I applaud your idea, but there is no way for this to be scientific so why do it? First of all, there is no way for the study to be controlled or even "semi-controlled". What, are we going to buy our own placebos? -- we just won't tell ourselves which we're taking :) We also should be evaluated by a blind doctor, not by ourselves. And we need all of the results to be interpreted by people who know lots about math among other things. There are probably lots of other things that are necessary that those people who know lots about math and other stuff could tell us as well :)
> P.S Getting off the subject, I agree in the suspension of the neurology guy. There is no need for foul language. But in my humble opinion he has made more sense than many retarded doctors I've known.
This discussion doesn't belong here but I'll bite... Dr. Bob has decided not to allow "foul" language and so we should follow his rules. And I have to say, when you just said "retarded doctors", I consider that just as offensive as when LostBoyinNC1 said "bullsh*t doctors" -- which is to say I wasn't necessarily offended by either, but if "bullsh*t" is bad, what you said is every bit as offensive.
Jon
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 16, 2002, at 16:43:20
In reply to Re: I have an idea, posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
> P.S Getting off the subject, I agree in the suspension of the neurology guy...
That is in fact off the subject, so that discussion should take place over at Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020510/msgs/5662.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 16:55:58
In reply to Re: Cheap source, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 11:27:32
I'm so happy to have omega 3 have'nt tried to get it cheaply..compared to the amount spent on drugs previously which I don't need to..its pennies to buy a bottle of this stuff every four weeks..
I go for quality..that is salmon oil...the health stores sell it here and so far no problems getting it...
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 17:00:43
In reply to Re: Cheap source » Bookgurl99, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 2:09:12
I'm just replying to questions you posted...re-read..looks like youre getting confused..
you posted
>Will adding ground flax seed to my diet help?
I replied..and then you tell me not to reply *&*()
confusion...
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 17:02:56
In reply to Re: I have an idea, posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 17:29:16
In reply to Re: whats your problem ?? » omega man, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 17:00:43
I posted those two messages together -- I asked for info and also posted "let's stop beating a dead horse" to refer to the arguing back and forth within the group (not just on your behalf, OmegaMan) about whether Omega-3 supplementation is useful vs. not useful vs. whether we should just try to eat a good diet.
I didn't post "let's stop beating a dead horse" in reply to YOUR reply; it was not directed at you specifically.
When I said "let's stop beating a dead horse" it was because, from my perspective, the topic has gone back and forth so much that I don't think opinions will be changed. Those that agree have made themselves known, and those that disagree have made themselves known -- with an apparent stalemate.
Hence, except for factual info on how to use omega-3's or non-defensive anecdotes on how it worked "in the field," there isn't really a point to carrying on this thread of conversation.
I feel that you misinterpreted my posts and intent -- there's no need to lash out at me personally by asking "what's your problem?" like that.
Posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 18:46:12
In reply to what's your problem?? » omega man, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 17:29:16
sorry..when I read the post and see its saying its a reply to my post it does look like youre posting specifically to me...but now I think about it ..its not possible to make a post without it being a reply to something
mmmnn sensitive am I ....
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 16, 2002, at 18:51:30
In reply to Re: Tech tok » Bookgurl99, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 18:46:12
> sorry..when I read the post and see its saying its a reply to my post it does look like youre posting specifically to me...but now I think about it ..its not possible to make a post without it being a reply to something
>
> mmmnn sensitive am I ....I'm sensitive too. . .not enough omega-3? *grin*
I'm looking at a website called lcpsolution.com right now. It talks about the use of omega-3's in treating ADHD (my problem) , dyslexia, and learning disorders.
Posted by dave40252 on June 18, 2002, at 16:21:36
In reply to Re: Cheap source » Bookgurl99, posted by omega man on June 16, 2002, at 16:55:58
I found a salmon oil supplement at a Walgreens -
I think it was like $6 for a hundred - i added it to my mix a little over a week ago and have noticed a significant improvement - hoping it isnt just placebo effect.
Posted by omega man on June 19, 2002, at 21:56:42
In reply to Re: Cheap source, posted by dave40252 on June 18, 2002, at 16:21:36
Posted by dave40252 on June 20, 2002, at 13:39:43
In reply to Re: whats your DX ? (nm) » dave40252, posted by omega man on June 19, 2002, at 21:56:42
chronic dysthymia/anxiety with recurrent major depression
Posted by deli on June 24, 2002, at 10:02:18
In reply to Re: I have an idea, posted by deli on June 16, 2002, at 13:50:43
Well hello everyone, I am back from Pensacola beach.
When I suggested the Omega 3 experiment I knew that it would'nt be scientific.
But, I figured that most of us are past the placebo effect in terms of taking "snake oil" and feeling better. What I mean is, if something works we know it works. I for example have been suffering from this disease enough to know if I feel better or not.
In terms of brands, I have been buying Omegabrite but it gets too expensive. According to Dr. Stols studies, the ration of epa vs dha should be at least 2 to 1 respectively. Omegabrite which is what he used in the research has a 7 to 1 ratio.
He suggests other brands in his book but I don't have it with me at the moment. But I will find out.
Anyway, this could be counted as group therapy or something like that;)))If I don't get back with you is because I am going to Miami now for another mini vacation. Don't be jealous, I am not even enjoying it. It is just it has been paid for and my kids and husband get to enjoy for me. In fact, it just reminds me of how bad I feel when I don't get to enjoy even the ocean.
P.S. I deeply apologize if I offended anyone by using the word retarded in describing doctors in general. I know there are many wonderful doctors out there who deeply care for their patients. It just gets too frustrating when you want to feel better and you can't.
Posted by Bookgurl99 on June 24, 2002, at 10:48:35
In reply to Re: I have: an idea to all who answered, posted by deli on June 24, 2002, at 10:02:18
>According to Dr. Stols studies, the ration of epa vs dha should be at least 2 to 1 respectively. Omegabrite which is what he used in the research has a 7 to 1 ratio.
> He suggests other brands in his book but I don't have it with me at the moment. But I will find out.
Who's Dr. Stols? What's the title of his book?I just glanced through Barry Sears' "The Omega Zone." He recommends OmegaBrite or (of course) his own brand. The cost is quite high -- though less per month than, say, a prescription antidepressant.
The thing is, considering that I have another illness to worry about, I really want a traditional doctor to follow me on this. We're not sure of the long-term implications (other than healing for bipolar and add folk) of taking high doses of omega-3's, so I guess I'd want someone a _little_ cautious to follow me on it. I guess I need to find someone open-minded to treat me in general.
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on June 24, 2002, at 16:39:09
In reply to Re: I have: an idea to all who answered, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 24, 2002, at 10:48:35
Andrew Stoll is an associate professor of Psychiatry in Harvard.
Omega-3 is a natural part of the brain-about 20%-so it is not a medication really-we are deficient in it because we do not eat oily fish like our ancestors.Eskimos eat about 18g daily in their normal diet and rarely become depressed.
Have a look at my site at www.omega3.20megsfree.com
Posted by deli on June 25, 2002, at 10:52:01
In reply to Re: I have: an idea to all who answered, posted by Bookgurl99 on June 24, 2002, at 10:48:35
Dr. Stoll is( or was) the director of Psychopharmacology Research Laboratory at Mc Lean Hospital and a professor at Harvard Medical School. He wrote the Omega-3 connection and claims that a deficiency of these essential fatty acids may contribute to many psychiatric conditions. I got it from my public library and it is a pretty interesting read. I am taking Omegabrite supplements which is what he mainly recommends due to their high epa levels but he also recommends other brands as well which may be less expensive. Ed O' Flaherty ( a regular in this newsgroup) recommends Eskimo 3 which seems very good.
I am just giving this a try. I am also taking my meds of course but I figured the Omega 3 may help undue some of the damage these meds may cause in the long term.
Good luck
Deli
Posted by Peter on November 28, 2003, at 3:27:20
In reply to omega 3 getting overlooked by industry ?, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:32:36
Hi:
I've been doing some research on Omega 3 fish oil benefits, and I'm really looking forward to trying it out; after 8 years of hopping from one med cocktail to the next, I'm just sick of it and would like to try fish oil. My dx is Bipolar NOS/'probable' adult ADHD/social anxiety. I've tried everything. My current regime is depakote, lexapro, dexedrine spansules, klonopin, restoril. I also began bright lite therapy, and I take Twinlab Daily One Caps w/o iron, melatonin, and singulair. Ideally, if the Fish oil works, I'd like to taper off the AD's, benzos, and AC's. However, I'm having a difficult time settling on the right brand, since they all claim to have their own advantages. Here are the 5 that have been recommended to me: 1) Omegabrite (because it's specially formulated by Dr. Stoll); 2) Carlson's (many say the bottled oil is better/more potent/easier to take than the caps, and Carlson's is said to be free of mercury, PCBs, DDT,etc); 3) Eskimo-3 Fish Oil (also said to be particularly pure and stable); 4) TwinLAB Mega Twin EPA Fish Oil (again, claims toxin-free and best quality + good EPA:DHA ratio); 5) Solgar MaxEpa (good EPA:DHA ratio, recommended a few years ago by a pdoc). At first sight, it looks like the Carlson LIQUID form is most efficient and potent, without requiring taking more than 1 dose daily. But it also contains ALA, DPA, and other stuff that I dont know much about. Is Liquid Form better than capsules or softgels? What about the other brands I site? Which out of all is best in terms of quality, efficacy, and dosing convenience?
I'd really appreciate your advice.
Thanks a lot,
Peter> like a lot of people here with anxiety/depression....AD's made me more anxious...lucklily omega 3 came along...and the effect on having stable thinking space was/still is profound ...not a drugged or buzzed feeling....just the feeling of being 18 again....so perhaps many of the brain problems we have are neural burnout...shortcircuits due to lack of insulation...taking AD's just pushes the brain harder..so more burnout more blown neural pathways and more anxiety...
>
> Why is this not recognized and availible or proven ? I would guess it probably has somewhere..but its in nobodies financial interest to hype this information on the web..which now cost money...so it gets obscured....
>
> two years ago when I typed omega 3 into the search engines up came studies from Harvard and Sheffield University...showing omega 3 was more effective than traditional remedies....I tried to find this yesterday..and it was'nt there !!
>
> I find this really worrying...although word of mouth has helped here..the potential of omega 3 still remains untapped by the drug companies....they basically ignore its existance...a natrually availible product that offsets neural burnout ....but they cannot patent or control it...so the Pdocs don't have the evidence to take the risk and prescribe it..hence the number of threads here related to prescribed remedies takes over...wheres the balanced view ..?
>
> how many people here had periods of their lives ruined by so -called anti-anxiety effects of stimulants...? if you had it made known that omega 3 can offset those problems would'nt that have made a difference ?
>
> Omega 3 deserves to be more than an "alternative" health remedy..its effect is basic and profound..and its in a class of its own...just not the business type.
>
> on such an important site as psycho-babble its essential that dietry and lifestyle considerations get a dedicated section....precisely because they get ignored by the highly focussed wheels of the business side itself.
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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