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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 5:43:59
Hey folks:Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
Thanx
Jay
Posted by mike21 on April 14, 2002, at 10:17:35
In reply to Started Clomipramine...questions..., posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 5:43:59
Hi Jay,
Sorry to just add more questions to your own, but...
Have you tried imipramine? My doctor prescribed it for me, but I've heard it's bad for cognitive function, memory, and it's an anti-histamine, which I generally don't tolerate. Do you have any experience with it? Any decrease in cognitive function with the clomipramine?
I've tried SS/NRIs (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin) with little or no success either.
Mike
>
> Hey folks:
>
> Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
>
> I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
>
> I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
>
> One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
>
> Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
>
> Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
>
> Thanx
>
> Jay
Posted by IsoM on April 14, 2002, at 11:34:45
In reply to Re: Started Clomipramine...questions... » jay, posted by mike21 on April 14, 2002, at 10:17:35
Personally, I really enjoyed the benefits of TCAs. They really do work wonderfully, but in our family (my sons & me), TCAs really made our hearts race - for me, 120 bpm while laying down resting; horribly dry mouth (so dry, I couldn't even swallow); & constipation that *nothing* would help.
Not worth spending a couple of hours in the bathroom not be able to go, not worth having a heart rate that jumped to 175 or so with mild exertion, or a mouth so dry that I had to chew something constantly.
Still I do miss the benefits of them. My oldest son has gone back to clomipramine after almost 10 years of trying other ADs. Even with the side-effects (not as severe as mine), it's the only one that's consistently helped.
Posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 22:21:03
In reply to Re: Started Clomipramine...questions... » jay, posted by mike21 on April 14, 2002, at 10:17:35
Hi Mike:Questions are great...we learn more that way! I think imipramine is a *great* choice, especially if you have an anxious component to your depression. On SSRI/SNRI's, I felt "numb", and on clomipramine, I feel SO much better. (Mind you, I was on Zyprexa also, but even before, I hated that lifeless zombie-like feeling Effexor caused.)
One other thing too, and that is Effexor (and SSRI's) seemed to turn me into a miserable, angry person all the time, and on clomipramine I have my little mood swings, but nothing like before.Anyhow, I would say give it a shot, as I think TCA's are coming back in because many are fed up and let down by the newer drugs. (Never mind the fortune they cost too!) No a.d. has been proven more *effective* than imipramine, and it still is the "official" a.d. of the World Health Organization.
Best wishes....
Jay
> Hi Jay,
>
> Sorry to just add more questions to your own, but...
>
> Have you tried imipramine? My doctor prescribed it for me, but I've heard it's bad for cognitive function, memory, and it's an anti-histamine, which I generally don't tolerate. Do you have any experience with it? Any decrease in cognitive function with the clomipramine?
>
> I've tried SS/NRIs (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin) with little or no success either.
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > Hey folks:
> >
> > Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
> >
> > I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
> >
> > I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
> >
> > One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
> >
> > Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
> >
> > Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
> >
> > Thanx
> >
> > Jay
Posted by Iago Camboa on April 15, 2002, at 6:01:10
In reply to Started Clomipramine...questions..., posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 5:43:59
I have been fighting (endogenous, stubborn) depression for more than 20 years now and have been using TCAs most of the time (half a dozen of those in all). My personal testimony is that the best TCAs are (1) clomipramine (Anafranil)and (2)nortriptyline (Aventyl), the worst of all being amitriptyline (Tryptisol, Elavil). I have never been on imipramine though.
I must add however that for me MAOIs rank first as AD drugs (I was on Niamid (nialamid) many years ago and on Nardil (phenelzine) not so long ago and both were superb meds - unfortunately they are no more available in this country).
Anxiety and sleeping problems were mild for me and are easily dealt with with (non-antipsychotic) benzos. I now use 2mg/d Xanax together with 112.5mg/d Anafranil but one could go safely till double this amount if need be (and you remain tremor-free).
I wish you the best of luck.
Iago
Posted by polarbear206 on April 15, 2002, at 11:37:11
In reply to Re: Started Clomipramine...questions... » mike21, posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 22:21:03
>
> Hi Mike:
>
> Questions are great...we learn more that way! I think imipramine is a *great* choice, especially if you have an anxious component to your depression. On SSRI/SNRI's, I felt "numb", and on clomipramine, I feel SO much better. (Mind you, I was on Zyprexa also, but even before, I hated that lifeless zombie-like feeling Effexor caused.)
> One other thing too, and that is Effexor (and SSRI's) seemed to turn me into a miserable, angry person all the time, and on clomipramine I have my little mood swings, but nothing like before.
>
> Anyhow, I would say give it a shot, as I think TCA's are coming back in because many are fed up and let down by the newer drugs. (Never mind the fortune they cost too!) No a.d. has been proven more *effective* than imipramine, and it still is the "official" a.d. of the World Health Organization.
>
> Best wishes....
>
> Jay
>
>
> > Hi Jay,
> >
> > Sorry to just add more questions to your own, but...
> >
> > Have you tried imipramine? My doctor prescribed it for me, but I've heard it's bad for cognitive function, memory, and it's an anti-histamine, which I generally don't tolerate. Do you have any experience with it? Any decrease in cognitive function with the clomipramine?
> >
> > I've tried SS/NRIs (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin) with little or no success either.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > >
> > > Hey folks:
> > >
> > > Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
> > >
> > > I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
> > >
> > > I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
> > >
> > > One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
> > >
> > > Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
> > >
> > > Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
> > >
> > > Thanx
> > >
> > > Jay
Hi everybody!!
I just want to add my 2 cents. I have tried several of the new age antidepressants. None of them make me feel like my " old self" except the tricyclics. I guess thats why they call them "old faithfuls." As far as I'm concerned the tricyclics/MAOI'S are superior over the new age AD for more severe endogenous and atypical depressions. Oh, and the sex life is much better too!!
Posted by Dave1 on April 16, 2002, at 17:12:46
In reply to Started Clomipramine...questions..., posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 5:43:59
Hi Jay,
I tried all the different groups of meds. available and never had any success. A couple of months ago I started clomipramine and then added risperdal and then lithium. When the lithium kicked it somehow activated the clomipramine and I felt somewhat less depressed.
Regarding your thoughts about not worrying about old stuff anymore, clomipramine is also used for OCD which you probably already know.
Good Luck,
Dave
>
> Hey folks:
>
> Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
>
> I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
>
> I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
>
> One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
>
> Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
>
> Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
>
> Thanx
>
> Jay
Posted by mike21 on April 16, 2002, at 19:31:18
In reply to Re: Started Clomipramine...questions... » mike21, posted by jay on April 14, 2002, at 22:21:03
Definitely sounds like it's worth a try. I think my condition is more ocd-mediated, but if imipramine is like clomiprimine, then it would also be good for ocd, based on other posts I've seen. My only worry is the anti-histamine component. I don't tolerate them well at all. They really sap my concentration and mental sharpness.
Mike
>
> Hi Mike:
>
> Questions are great...we learn more that way! I think imipramine is a *great* choice, especially if you have an anxious component to your depression. On SSRI/SNRI's, I felt "numb", and on clomipramine, I feel SO much better. (Mind you, I was on Zyprexa also, but even before, I hated that lifeless zombie-like feeling Effexor caused.)
> One other thing too, and that is Effexor (and SSRI's) seemed to turn me into a miserable, angry person all the time, and on clomipramine I have my little mood swings, but nothing like before.
>
> Anyhow, I would say give it a shot, as I think TCA's are coming back in because many are fed up and let down by the newer drugs. (Never mind the fortune they cost too!) No a.d. has been proven more *effective* than imipramine, and it still is the "official" a.d. of the World Health Organization.
>
> Best wishes....
>
> Jay
>
>
> > Hi Jay,
> >
> > Sorry to just add more questions to your own, but...
> >
> > Have you tried imipramine? My doctor prescribed it for me, but I've heard it's bad for cognitive function, memory, and it's an anti-histamine, which I generally don't tolerate. Do you have any experience with it? Any decrease in cognitive function with the clomipramine?
> >
> > I've tried SS/NRIs (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin) with little or no success either.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > >
> > > Hey folks:
> > >
> > > Well, after a fewy years on Effexor and Zyprexa, as well as all of the SSRI's..Serzone, Welbutrin, etc..(ohhh..and the 'mood stabalizers'), I have started on clomipramine. To be honest, I have only ever benefited from tricyclics. Anybody also on a tricyclic as their main a.d.?
> > >
> > > I see so *few* people using this as their prominent antidepressant, and besides some slight side-effects (BTW..I found side-effects on SSRI/SNRI's MUCH worse..), I feel like *me*. I don't feel like some manic person trying to crush my depression and anxiety, it's like everything was toned down, and I can experience pleasure. In all...I am positive I will never turn back to any of these SNRI/SSRI meds. Oh ya...and the 'weight gain' side effect of tricyclics is JUST as much, if not more, on the SSRI/SNRI's. Plus, many people add Zyprexa et al to their combo, and the weight gain is even worse.
> > >
> > > I am also hoping to go on theraputic benzo treatment with my clomipramine. For the direly anxious depressive, clomipramine seems to have saved the day when all of these 'super' (and VERY expensive) drugs simply numbed me.
> > >
> > > One last point. I heard somebody recently say that the newer SNRI/SSRI's basically work on making people 'undepressed', while the tricyclics work on achieving a better perspective on life, and actually learning not to care about too much that has happened in your past.
> > >
> > > Benzos and tricyclics seem to be a "powerhouse" mix. In essence, the anxiety gets knocked down so much that you lose some of the depression caused by anxiety.
> > >
> > > Anyhow...just my .02 cents. Any comments??
> > >
> > > Thanx
> > >
> > > Jay
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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