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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by GB on March 21, 2002, at 22:24:33
Hey Ron Hill,
Are you a saleman for SAM-e? It seems like every one of your posts pushs SAM-e.
GB
Posted by IsoM on March 22, 2002, at 1:28:30
In reply to Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman?, posted by GB on March 21, 2002, at 22:24:33
I didn't take his posts that way. It's hard not to be enthusiastic for something that makes one feel so good. I went back & reread his posts & they don't sound like a sales pitch at all. I hope you're only joking there.
Posted by colin wallace on March 22, 2002, at 4:59:42
In reply to Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman?, posted by GB on March 21, 2002, at 22:24:33
Okay, so you've busted us!!! Me, Ron, and DaveX
are involved in a high level conspiracy to peddle Sam-e and get a world monopoly on sales...
We plan to eliminate all competition from Pharmaceutical companies, by telling wildly exaggerated claims about the health benefits of our product.It's true, you'd get better results for depression by sucking on a cactus....
Guess we'll have to think of something else now!!!!
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 5:07:16
In reply to Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman?, posted by GB on March 21, 2002, at 22:24:33
GB,
No, but I can see how you might start to think so. I have been openly sharing my exuberance and, perhaps, I've crossed the line a time or two. If so, please forgive me.
The thing is, for the last six years I have went from one failed med trial to the next without finding a solution for the depressive phase of my BPII disorder. The AD meds destroyed my life. I lost my career as an environmental engineer.
Roughly five months ago my pdoc suggested that I try SAM-e (added to my existing 600 mg/day Lithobid). It was the greatest gift I could have been given at the time. SAM-e literally gave me back my life. If you look at the longest thread on SAM-e above, you will find several other people (Colin Wallace, davex, SteveS) that have had almost identical experiences.
I wanted to post as soon as I got well five months ago, but I waited to see if it would poop-out. It didn't, so here I am. Now that I am well, I want to help others get well also, to the extent that I am able to do so. But your point is well taken, GB. Few if any will be helped by a pushy salesman.
-- Ron
> Hey Ron Hill,
>
> Are you a saleman for SAM-e? It seems like every one of your posts pushs SAM-e.
>
> GB
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 5:20:43
In reply to Re: Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman?GB, posted by colin wallace on March 22, 2002, at 4:59:42
Colin,
They're onto us. You and Dave put the cases of snake oil back on the truck, I'll put the cash in our secret hiding place, and let's bug-out before the Sheriff shows up. And Colin, PLEASE; in the next town try to make your sales pitches sound a little more believable!!!!
-- Ron
--------------------------------> Okay, so you've busted us!!! Me, Ron, and DaveX
> are involved in a high level conspiracy to peddle Sam-e and get a world monopoly on sales...
> We plan to eliminate all competition from Pharmaceutical companies, by telling wildly exaggerated claims about the health benefits of our product.It's true, you'd get better results for depression by sucking on a cactus....
> Guess we'll have to think of something else now!!!!
Posted by GB on March 22, 2002, at 7:04:38
In reply to Re: Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman? » GB, posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 5:07:16
Hey Ron Hill,
Thanks for clarifying things!
GB
PS I apologize if my post was "accusatory", but other posters in the past have come on the board to claim the benefits of "wonder drug X" only to later make attempts at sell it (pointing people to their website to sell it).
Posted by GB on March 22, 2002, at 7:10:15
In reply to Re: Ron Hill- a SAM-e Saleman? » GB, posted by IsoM on March 22, 2002, at 1:28:30
>I hope you're only joking there.
IsoM,
Actually, I was dead serious. Many people here come looking for solutions out of their depression and are desparate. People have taken advantage of this in the past and tried to peddle their products here.
GB
Posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 9:42:58
In reply to Re: Ron Hill- a SAM-e Saleman? » GB, posted by IsoM on March 22, 2002, at 1:28:30
IsoM,
Thank you for your kind words! Just a small misunderstanding and it’s all straightened out now. Thanks again.
-- Ron
----------------------------------------> I didn't take his posts that way. It's hard not to be enthusiastic for something that makes one feel so good. I went back & reread his posts & they don't sound like a sales pitch at all. I hope you're only joking there.
Posted by colin wallace on March 22, 2002, at 11:36:54
In reply to Thank You for Your Kindness! » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 9:42:58
You've actually got a very valid point there mate. All joking aside, I'd be mightily p****** off if I thought that anyone was underhanded enough to be trying to sneakily peddle any drug/antidepressant/supplement here for their own gain.I haven't really been around this board long enough to have come across this, but I'd hope that someone (Dr Bob) would pull the plug straightaway if it should happen.
Stay well,
Col. (although....I do know a shady guy who could do you a good deal on Remeron....)
Posted by IsoM on March 22, 2002, at 13:59:40
In reply to Re: Sales PitchesGB, posted by colin wallace on March 22, 2002, at 11:36:54
Posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 0:20:28
In reply to Re: Ron Hill-Are You a SAM-e Saleman? » GB, posted by Ron Hill on March 22, 2002, at 5:07:16
I know this has probably been explained before - but i was wondering if anyone could humor me:
From research I've read about SAM-e, the 1,4 butanedisulfonate formulation works better than the other form (I can't remember it--but it's in the generic Target brand). Now, is it possible that this other form could work just as well for someone? Or is it only the butanedisulfonate that reall y helps?
Also, this stuff is so expensive it's so hard for me to try it out for a good amount of time at a high enough dosage - anyone found where you can get it for cheap?
Thanks much
Jerry
Posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 1:09:47
In reply to SAM-e formulations - help?, posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 0:20:28
Jerry,
It is my understanding that the 1,4 butanedisulfonate formulation produces a more stable product and, therefore, has a longer shelf life than the toyslate formulation. However, both products have the same effectiveness.
I find it very affordable. My total SAM-e cost is about 50 cents/day, the price of a soda pop. Yesterday, I purchased eighty 200 mg "Nature Made" brand tablets for $35.99 at Costco. Nature Made is one of the better brands. I take 600 mg/day Lithobid and 200 mg/day SAM-e.-- Ron
P.S. If you haven't already, check out the SAM-e thread above. Here a link to get you there:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020318/msgs/98612.html
Posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 3:06:01
In reply to Re: SAM-e formulations » Jerrympls, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 1:09:47
Ron, does the SAM-e from Cosco have an expiry date on it? And how long does it sit on the shelf that you know of? The Canada/US border isn't that far from here - only 15 miles or so.
Posted by eve70 on March 23, 2002, at 6:48:28
In reply to Re: SAM-e expiry date » Ron Hill, posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 3:06:01
Hi,
I've read also the above thread on Sam-e and i think that it should mean something if people want to speak about this stuff.
People seems to stay well on it, and i do not think that many people, from different countries in the world are came to an agreement for sell or push sam-e on the market....they are writing from US, canada, europe...
I think, reading all the posts above, that sam-e seems to work well (like other ad's) but without any side effects, and it is marvelous for me.
I was never on sam-e, but i suffered more on side-effects of SSRI than depression.
Good luck, and continue to share!
Eve
Posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 15:53:28
In reply to Re: SAM-e expiry date » Ron Hill, posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 3:06:01
> Ron, does the SAM-e from Cosco have an expiry date on it?
Yes, the expiration tag is on the bottom of the box. The Nature Made 80 count box of 200 mg tablets that I bought two days ago, on sale costing $35.99 + tax, has an expiration date of 09/03.
>And how long does it sit on the shelf that you know of?
Don't know. I've wondered that myself, but all I really care is that I use the product before the expiration date.
>The Canada/US border isn't that far from here - only 15 miles or so.
Then why have you been whinning so much about the price and Canada pulling the product?! :)
--Ron
Posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 21:49:53
In reply to Re: SAM-e expiry date » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 15:53:28
Thanks meanie - I wasn't whining. It's called griping. ;-)
The Canadian dollar is weak compared to the American dollar & when we shop down there, we don't even get the proper exchange rate - but get charged far more!! Then I'm not sure if Customs will charge duty or such. Sure, it's just a phone call to check, but I have phoned & each time I get a different story.
I'll ask around among my friends if any have bought at healthfood store down there. It's only a very small town across the border & doesn't do much business. I'm leery of using it, but would have to travel much further to a larger town.
I never go down to the States to shop, as a person never comes out ahead financially. The only reason to go south is if something isn't in Canada.
Posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 22:56:50
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » Ron Hill, posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 21:49:53
> Thanks meanie - I wasn't whining. It's called griping. ;-)
Just giving ya a hard time. It's good for you! Makes ya tough.
> I never go down to the States to shop, as a person never comes out ahead financially. The only reason to go south is if something isn't in Canada.Why did Canada ban the sale of SAM-e? Make it a prescription medication or classify it as an OTC, but don't just sit on it Mr. Prime Minister!
I sent a supply of SAM-e to my friend in Montana (US). He lives a stones throw from Canada. So long as its legal, I'll send some to you, if you so desire. However, for all you know I may be an ax murder. So get a P.O. Box to avoid giving your address to an ax man, or take your chances and I'll send it to your door (w/o the ax). Let me know if you want my e-mail address to exchange info.
-- Ron
Posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 23:26:30
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » IsoM, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 22:56:50
Hello Mr. Ax Murderer. Hey, that's just a rubber tomahawk! :-)
First, I'm going to buy some choline & make sure I'm taking lots (but not an overabundance) of suitable protein, along with my B vitamins & see. If I don't think I'm getting a suitable response, I will bear your offer in mind. Thank you very much for the offer though. I appreciate it.
Posted by jazzdog on March 24, 2002, at 12:56:16
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » Ron Hill, posted by IsoM on March 23, 2002, at 23:26:30
Hi Iso -
I gather you live in Vancouver, Victoria or thereabouts, given your descriptions of the weather. I'm in Toronto, but I've found a couple of health food stores that will import stuff from the US and sell it under the counter. Melatonin, amino acids, and, I'm sure,
SAM-e. It's all a bit furtive. You ask the person whether they sell what you want, and then assure them you do not work for the government (they will probably ask). Apparently, even if you do work for the government, once you say you don't, you cannot legally prosecute the store. As I say, it's surprising how many stores do this, and I'm sure you can find a few on the west coast.yours, Jane
Posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 13:33:13
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » IsoM, posted by jazzdog on March 24, 2002, at 12:56:16
Interesting idea. I checked out some health food stores & they didn't carry it. I got talking about supplements for a while with them & gave them all the info they'd need to know I'm only a consumer not an agent but will check more stores. Thanks.
The memory issues I have is very frustrating. At times, my memory seems phenomenol & blows away others. But for everyday matters, it's terrible. I can't even remember what I did half-hour ago or what I was in the middle of thinking at other times. I wish the absent-minded professor persona was considered highly honored. :-(
Posted by beardedlady on March 24, 2002, at 14:54:00
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » jazzdog, posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 13:33:13
IsoM(etric):
We used to have a saying here: Drink Diet Coke, Lose Your Keys. I don't know if there's anything to aspertame and that strange kind of memory loss, but you can always test yourself by avoiding aspertame.
I don't know a woman (except for one, and we're not speaking at present) who doesn't have this problem. I can assure you it has nothing to do with your meds, as most of the folks I know are non-medicated. Although it seems to be mostly age related, I think it has much to do with multi-tasking. These days, we are cooking while we are on the computer and talking on the telephone, with the t.v. in the background. We don't do things with consciousness! When we set our keys down on the table, are we thinking, "My keys are on the table"? Nope. If we did, though, we'd remember where we put them.
Try this experiment for a couple of days. Tell yourself, out loud, what you are doing with the objects you misplace. I find that when I do things with purpose--when I pay attention to little details and don't do things out of habit--I don't lose anything.
Like you, I astound myself with the things I remember. I can have conversations with strangers and remember the name of the coworkers who annoy them. I can remember the names of my students (30) by the end of each class, and, even though we only meet once a week for 15 weeks, I remember their names every week.
That's because putting our keys down isn't important. It's a habit. The other things we do with purpose. We pay attention to people when they speak to us. We concentrate.
Other than caffeine (and you have to be drinking it at the time or just before), I don't think there's a drug or a pill that can help you with it (even Ginseng or Ginkgo, whichever is supposed to be the one). But it's one thing you have control over--at least right now.
beardy : )>
P.S. The reason that woman doesn't have the memory problem? She doesn't EVER do two things at once. She CAN'T. We used to talk on the phone all the time, and she had to stop everything and sit down on the bed to talk. I was always doing laundry, making dinner, running up and down the steps. She was sitting.
Posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 15:41:48
In reply to Re: Memory Loss » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 24, 2002, at 14:54:00
Thanks Beire-dei. I've never drank diet pop - ewwwhh! what a taste. Aspertame tastes like licking an old tarnished silver spoon. I can taste it in anything, no matter how well masked.
I've actually used the trick you write about. And it does work wonders, but even things that seem to matter to me, I forget.
Just a small unimportant example here.
I missed a show I love called Farscape (the BEST sci-fi series ever, ever made!!! Can you guess I'm enthusiastic about it?). There was only 10 minutes left of the show so I said aloud to myself & my son, "guess I'll check which episode I missed." And when I watched a couple of minutes said "arrgg! It's one I haven't seen before."My son turned & looked & said "you've seen it." Of course, I hadn't seen it! I'd remember - I adore that show! And I told him so. But he said, "sure you have", "it's the one where that alien girl is actually carnivorous & spikes come out of here head." I watched more & then realised I had seen it. But the part that I'd first seen, I still don't recall.
That's what so discouraging - I forget something I even enjoyed & gave my full attention. The fact it's just a show is irrelevant. There's too many other things like that, too, that are relevant. I know it's not at all like Alzheimer's 'cause my son has been concerned about my memory & asked me to check it out. Not even remotely close & no relatives have ever had it.
What gives with me? I don't know how to overcome this memory thing. And if anything, it's getting worse. The effort to pay close attention to what others say & what I do is taxing at times. When I was younger, I moved to Quebec for a while. I had to really concentrate on what was being said in French as mine was lousy. The sheer effort of concentration exhausted me at the end of a day & it was so nice just to speak & listen in English again. That's what it feels like to me when I concentrate so hard on what goes around me.
I still do remember lots of things, but not necessarily the things I want to??!!
Posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 15:49:31
In reply to Re: Memory Loss » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on March 24, 2002, at 14:54:00
I just wanted to say that it's almost like the pathway for memory storage is faulty. Like the information be taken in doesn't make it from my woefully inadequate working memory to even short-term memory, let alone long-term. Does that make sense to you?
Posted by beardedlady on March 24, 2002, at 19:18:35
In reply to Re: Memory Loss- Just a bit extra » beardedlady, posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 15:49:31
Yeah, makes sense. But, you know, it happens. I have that same kind of memory problem every once in a while. My grandfather used to say his brain was full, which was why he was forgetting so many things. To make room for the new stuff, he had to dump some old stuff. (There's actually some truth to that, I heard once; Peter Jennings did a story on it, and he's Canadian, so it must be true!)
Do you work at home (as opposed to outside the home)? I do, and I think I pay too much attention to all the crap that's wrong with me.
I have a cramp in my lower right side (ovaries?) since July. I've had every part ultrasounded and CT scanned and x-rayed, and nothing! But I still have it, so I'm going to have a laparoscopy.
I've had this nasty ear-clicking thing--where I do this unconscious thing with the back of my throat that makes my ears feel as though they are unclogging--since August, when I got this permanent dizzy migraine thing. I've been to the ENT and the neurologist; I've had two CT scans and a brain MRI. Nothing.
I have this strange feeling that there's a flash of neon blue light in my peripheral vision. It lasts for a quarter of a second.
My sinuses snort. I have headaches. Both hands have nerve damage from carpal tunnel and need surgery. And I have a rectal fissue that my doc wants to make sure isn't a polyp, so he wants me to have a colonoscopy--at age 39.
I feel like I am falling apart.
I also feel like if I went to a 9-5 job every day, I wouldn't have noticed any of these things!
Ain't life grand?
beardy : )>
Posted by jazzdog on March 24, 2002, at 19:45:41
In reply to Re: SAM-e price » jazzdog, posted by IsoM on March 24, 2002, at 13:33:13
HI Iso -
I know exactly what you mean about memory. I got really worried a couple of years ago when I couldn't remember the name of my own assistant, couldn't enter a room without forgetting why, and would sit through a movie twice because I didn't remember I'd seen it. I've been working on the problem ever since, and have found various factors / cures. I've still got a bad memory, and I'm still working on it, but it's not as bad as it was. Some of the things that have worked are:
estrogen - a huge one. Even though I was only 42, it turned out I was premenopausal.
T4 - my thyroxine level was 2.7, and anything under 5 is considered 'normal'. But even endrocrinologists now admit that anything over 3 is hypothyroid, and many people are hypothyroid with a reading over 1.5. The T4 made a big difference.
metformin and a high protein diet - I had postprandial insulin readings over 5 times the upper limit of the normal range. Hyperinsulinism is a precursor to diabetes, but this postprandial test is very seldom done. Lowering my insulin levels definitely cleared some of the fog.
lamictal - for some reason, this seems to be successful half the time in treating derealization - a sort of chronic spaced-out state. It's early days, but I think it's helping a little.
stopping ssri's - again, still early days. But I took zoloft for 10 years, and I'm sure it's been a factor.
Hope some of this helps -
Jane
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