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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Peace on March 7, 2002, at 21:08:59
I recently came off benzos and my doctor put me on 25 mg. of Seroquel. It helped me get off a 13 year addiction to benzos, and is now helping me to sleep. My doc told me this is a low dose and I should not have any problem. I am doing really well.
However I saw this message on another board and I am starting to freak out a bit. I don't plan on taking the Seroquel forever. I am just taking it for a few months till my body adjusts to no benzos.
My question is: Is what is written in the message a common occurrence?
Here is the message from the other board. Please give me some feedback.
Peace
-------------------
"I am very concerned that Seroquel or any medication in the major
tranquilizer class (antipsychotics) is ever given for anything other
than intractable Schizophrenia or psychosis.They have absolutely no place in benzodiazepine or anxiety disorder
treatment.I have a very sad personal experience with these drugs. When I was
detoxing in the early 90's I met a man who was an attorney for the
state. He specialized in Elder Care law for seniors who had no
financial resources.Andrew loved his "calling" and told his doctor to keep him working
through benzo withdrawal; he simply had no time for recovery. His
doctor gave him an antipsychotic and while it did not stop the
majority of symptoms it did force him into unconscious sleep.After 4 months Andrew started showing signs of extrapyramidal side
effects that the doctor failed to recognize. Fast forward to today:Andrew has the typical PERMANENT neurological, brain damage from this
class of drugs. His eyes bug out and his tongue rolls in his mouth
uncontrollably, he slobbers and his lips gap open. He rocks from side
to side or becomes totally rigid and can't move, has such severe
muscle tension he sits and cries. Other times he paces for hours and
can't sit down or hold a thought. I have been to his home when he
will stand like a toy soldier, totally rigid for hours.He survived the benzo withdrawal but now is totally disabled by a
medication well known to have the potential for permanent
neurological damage. We made the medication mistake once, I pray no
one else is damaged like Andrew."
Posted by TSA West on March 8, 2002, at 2:40:28
In reply to Seroquel - is it really this dangerous?, posted by Peace on March 7, 2002, at 21:08:59
Dear friend,
There was no difference between quetiapine and placebo treatment groups in the incidence of EPS in 3 placebo-controlled clinical trials using variable doses of quetiapine: http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/04.html#QUETIAPINE
Posted by Gracie2 on March 8, 2002, at 9:32:54
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous? » Peace, posted by TSA West on March 8, 2002, at 2:40:28
I am taking 400 mg of Seroquel daily and I'm not drooling on myself yet, although it made me very tired at first. I've had insomnia since I was a teenager and Seroquel has adjusted my sleep pattern...this is something of a miracle. No other adverse affects except the initial fatigue.
-Gracie
Posted by fachad on March 8, 2002, at 11:09:21
In reply to Seroquel - is it really this dangerous?, posted by Peace on March 7, 2002, at 21:08:59
I'd really like to know the answer to this also.
My old pdoc thought that APs were really this dangerous. He lectured me one time for asking for amoxapine because it was in some way similar to loxapine and could cause tardive diskinesia -TD (the twiching, tounge rolling, lip smacking, etc.)
However, that was a few years ago before all the new APs came out. I don't know if they are as bad as the old thorazine/haldol type APs for causing TD.
As I suffering from treatment refactory insomnia, I'd really lile to know if the newer APs could be an option.
> I recently came off benzos and my doctor put me on 25 mg. of Seroquel. It helped me get off a 13 year addiction to benzos, and is now helping me to sleep. My doc told me this is a low dose and I should not have any problem. I am doing really well.
>
> However I saw this message on another board and I am starting to freak out a bit. I don't plan on taking the Seroquel forever. I am just taking it for a few months till my body adjusts to no benzos.
>
> My question is: Is what is written in the message a common occurrence?
>
> Here is the message from the other board. Please give me some feedback.
>
> Peace
>
> -------------------
>
> "I am very concerned that Seroquel or any medication in the major
> tranquilizer class (antipsychotics) is ever given for anything other
> than intractable Schizophrenia or psychosis.
>
> They have absolutely no place in benzodiazepine or anxiety disorder
> treatment.
>
> I have a very sad personal experience with these drugs. When I was
> detoxing in the early 90's I met a man who was an attorney for the
> state. He specialized in Elder Care law for seniors who had no
> financial resources.
>
> Andrew loved his "calling" and told his doctor to keep him working
> through benzo withdrawal; he simply had no time for recovery. His
> doctor gave him an antipsychotic and while it did not stop the
> majority of symptoms it did force him into unconscious sleep.
>
> After 4 months Andrew started showing signs of extrapyramidal side
> effects that the doctor failed to recognize. Fast forward to today:
>
> Andrew has the typical PERMANENT neurological, brain damage from this
> class of drugs. His eyes bug out and his tongue rolls in his mouth
> uncontrollably, he slobbers and his lips gap open. He rocks from side
> to side or becomes totally rigid and can't move, has such severe
> muscle tension he sits and cries. Other times he paces for hours and
> can't sit down or hold a thought. I have been to his home when he
> will stand like a toy soldier, totally rigid for hours.
>
> He survived the benzo withdrawal but now is totally disabled by a
> medication well known to have the potential for permanent
> neurological damage. We made the medication mistake once, I pray no
> one else is damaged like Andrew."
Posted by crepuscular on March 8, 2002, at 16:43:43
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous? » Peace, posted by fachad on March 8, 2002, at 11:09:21
Seroquel appears to be the least dangerous of the atypicals which are far less dangerous than the original antispychotics.
but not everything is know about any new drug, so there are some risks. i think the equation one must consider is what alternative do you have? for anxiety, i think atypicals are probably overkill, and certainly zyprexa, which is linked to obesity & diabetes, would not be worth it. but if the anxiety has de-realization features & suicidal thoughts along with it, well, maybe getting soaked down by benzos isn't all that great of an idea long term.
Posted by Peace on March 8, 2002, at 19:59:16
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous? » Peace, posted by TSA West on March 8, 2002, at 2:40:28
Hi Friend,
Thanks for the info. Though a lot of it was hard to understand, I did notice that the studies were for a duration of only 6 weeks. So I wonder what happens after long-term use of Seroquel.
I am really nervous about this drug now. I ran out of it and didn't fill my script today.
It really helped me and I felt better than I have in years. I actually started to feel human again, and was able to stop the benzos. But I don't want to play Russian Rulette, which I fear I may be doing. I just wish there was a magic pill with no serious side effects.
I am curious to see how I am going to sleep tonight without it.
Peace
> Dear friend,
>
> There was no difference between quetiapine and placebo treatment groups in the incidence of EPS in 3 placebo-controlled clinical trials using variable doses of quetiapine: http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/04.html#QUETIAPINE
Posted by Psydoc on March 9, 2002, at 6:26:44
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous?, posted by Peace on March 8, 2002, at 19:59:16
Hi . . .
While Seroquel , like any other antipsychotic medication, is capable of causing neurological side-effects, it is clear that such side-effects are quite rare with this medciation.
I have treated many patients with up to 800 mg per day of Seroquel for over a year and have seen no such side-effects as yet. With doses under 100 mg per day such side effects are even less likely to be experienced.
Best regards . . .
Ivan Goldberg
psydoc@psycom.net
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Posted by fachad on March 9, 2002, at 12:28:18
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous? » Peace, posted by Psydoc on March 9, 2002, at 6:26:16
Dr. Goldberg,
I was delighted to see you here. I have really benefited from the materials you have published on the web over the years.
I posted this question to PB a few days ago, but I'l love to hear your experience on it. Does Seroquel cause weight gain like other APs?
I know that all the older APs like thorazine caused severe weight gain, and some of the more popular newer ones like Risperdal and Zyprexa are even worse, causing "diabesity" (diabetes and obesity, each feeding the other and making the other worse).
So is Seroquel any different?
I've got tough insomnia, and I've seen quite a few here use Seroquel for that
> Hi . . .
>
> While Seroquel , like any other antipsychotic medication, is capable of causing neurological side-effects, it is clear that such side-effects are quite rare with this medciation.
>
> I have treated many patients with up to 800 mg per day of Seroquel for over a year and have seen no such side-effects as yet. With doses under 100 mg per day such side effects are even less likely to be experienced.
>
> Best regards . . .
>
> Ivan Goldberg
> psydoc@psycom.net
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Posted by Gracie2 on March 9, 2002, at 20:33:29
In reply to But Does it Cause Weight Gain? » Psydoc, posted by fachad on March 9, 2002, at 12:28:18
On my latest trip to Barnes & Noble, I was carrying a pile of books to the check-out counter
along with some Verona coffee - I knew exactly how much money I had to spend, so I had chosen carefully. Then I saw it..."Surviving Manic Depression - A manual on bipolar disorder for patients, families and providers". I put away the coffee (slowly) and most of the other books.I would highly recommend this book to anyone who has been diagnosed as manic depressive. It answers many questions concerning medication, risk factors, substance abuse, research linking manic depression with creativity, and lists books, videotapes and websites related to bipolar disorder. The authors are Fuller Torrey, MD and Michael Knable, DO. It costs about thirty bucks.
Just a few pages into the book, I grabbed a pen and started underlining sentences. The most important, so far:
THE DISEASE IS NOT THE PERSON.I just knew it!
-Gracie
Posted by OldSchool on March 12, 2002, at 13:01:17
In reply to Re: Seroquel - is it really this dangerous? » Peace, posted by Psydoc on March 9, 2002, at 6:26:44
> Hi . . .
>
> While Seroquel , like any other antipsychotic medication, is capable of causing neurological side-effects, it is clear that such side-effects are quite rare with this medciation.
>
> I have treated many patients with up to 800 mg per day of Seroquel for over a year and have seen no such side-effects as yet. With doses under 100 mg per day such side effects are even less likely to be experienced.
>
> Best regards . . .
>
> Ivan Goldberg
> psydoc@psycom.net
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%Doctor Goldberg, I highly respect your psychopharmacology knowledge. There was a time in my depression, when I was totally medication resistant (ADs just totally pooped out) where I found reading your "Depression Central" website gave me hope. Reading the stuff on there helped pump up my morale just a little bit and helped me in the sense that I knew there was stuff out there for me to try.
However, I dont agree that Seroquel is extremely safe. I developed bad EPS after being on low dose Seroquel (50 mg combined with 50 mg Zoloft) for just a one month period. Specifically, 50 mg Seroquel caused the following in me:
1) numb tongue
2) tight, stiff muscles everywhere
3) small muscle "pops" or twitches
4) tightness feeling on the back of my head and in my throat.After I went off the low dose Seroquel I experienced "rebound" muscle tightness symptoms and the muscle twitches dramatically worsened, and I began having mild weakness on my right side. My psychiatrist confirmed this by giving me muscle tests...my right arm was stiff and rachety feeling when he moved it, while my left arm was loose as a goose. In the following months afterward, the symptoms stayed and have not totally gone away. Ive even had mild problems walking on and off (stiffness in walking) and my right hand and grip feels weaker than before.
OTC benadryl helps this Seroquel induced EPS, and I tried Amantadine briefly a while back and found the Amantadine GREATLY helped these EPS symptoms.
My Seroquel induced EPS dx is official, coming from both my psychiatrist and my family doctor. I did not "self diagnose" this EPS. 50 mg of Seroquel is a piddly dosage.
Old School
This is the end of the thread.
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