![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 9, 2002, at 3:13:20
In reply to Re: An SSRI such as Zoloft would work better for you » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 1:08:20
>Just because 5-HTP or St. John's Wort didn't work for you does not mean that Zoloft or Paxil would not. I've given myself fair trials of both 5-HTP & St. John's Wort & neither of them did anything! I have found that Herbs & supplements very often do not work & often are a waste of money & simply do not work as well as SSRIs. SSRIs are much stronger medicines than supplements or herbs.
As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively.
Posted by DINGBAT on February 9, 2002, at 8:10:05
In reply to Re: An SSRI such as Zoloft would work better for you, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 9, 2002, at 3:13:20
Hi 3 Beer - If you don't mind, please could you fill me in a little re: Mirapex (vs selegiline)? I live in South Africa and would like to see if it is available here (and, more importantly, if it would help me). Also, I've tried Paxil and had severe anorgasmia. In your opinion, would Celexa be more likely to help without the sexual side-effects?
Thanx!
> >Just because 5-HTP or St. John's Wort didn't work for you does not mean that Zoloft or Paxil would not. I've given myself fair trials of both 5-HTP & St. John's Wort & neither of them did anything! I have found that Herbs & supplements very often do not work & often are a waste of money & simply do not work as well as SSRIs. SSRIs are much stronger medicines than supplements or herbs.
>
> As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
>
> I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
>
> If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
>
> If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
>
> Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
>
> I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
>
> If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively.
>
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>
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>
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 9:08:19
In reply to MUST READ (deprenyl, klonopin, adderall, wellb..) , posted by Jason911 on February 8, 2002, at 4:01:05
Jason,
You seem very intellgent and informed. I think jumping to deprenyl and phenylalanine now is a bit premature. You still have yet to try more traditional medications such as the TCAs and SSRIs. The TCA and SSRI are good medications and should be given a trial before going on to more experimental meds.
You have done alot of research on the net and here in psychobabble. I would ask you to keep this in mind when reading material from these sources 1. You can find a study to support any hypothesis if you look hard enough .... I could probable find a study that states aspirin causes headaches .... the study would be from a foreign country, very poorly designed, probable supported by someone selling a product that competed with aspirin, etc. BOTTOM LINE alot of internet material is inaccurate! 2. Researching here at psychobabble is good if you have failed traditional therapy ... most of us here are failures of tradition meds and are trying newer and sometime experimental meds. So we are not the most accurate source either.
You are young .... don't jump to mirapex, deprenyl, etc before trying the traditional meds. And don't get brainwash by some cure all internet article or study.
Spike
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 13:01:58
In reply to Don't Jump the Gun this Early » Jason911, posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 9:08:19
But the SSRI's in my mind are the last resort because of the sexual dysfunction (like being unable to get it up or ejaculate or whatever) and some people are affected even after they've stopped for months!! Scary. If that happened to me I'd probably commit suicide!! Life without sex or intimate relationships with women would simply destroy me and I picture Prozac, Zoloft, and especially Paxil my path to death or dispair. I want to try this first. I'm thinking the Klonopin will help me with any anxiety or agitation symptoms and lower my inhibition or whatever. Most important to me, people on the selegiline/klonopin combo have reported being even TOO sexually stimulated. I'm far from that now and would like to give that a try first. What do you think in response to this. I really appreciate everybody's advice. It shows you some people really do care about others and for that I am very grateful. Please give me any more advice that comes to mind. God bless -Jason911 (HELP!) p.s. The second study done by Youdom and Co. from my original post is actually in the manufacturer's insert of deprenyl!!! I've read other studies done a John Hopkins University that comfirm some of the ideas I've made regarding selegiline.
> Jason,
>
> You seem very intellgent and informed. I think jumping to deprenyl and phenylalanine now is a bit premature. You still have yet to try more traditional medications such as the TCAs and SSRIs. The TCA and SSRI are good medications and should be given a trial before going on to more experimental meds.
>
> You have done alot of research on the net and here in psychobabble. I would ask you to keep this in mind when reading material from these sources 1. You can find a study to support any hypothesis if you look hard enough .... I could probable find a study that states aspirin causes headaches .... the study would be from a foreign country, very poorly designed, probable supported by someone selling a product that competed with aspirin, etc. BOTTOM LINE alot of internet material is inaccurate! 2. Researching here at psychobabble is good if you have failed traditional therapy ... most of us here are failures of tradition meds and are trying newer and sometime experimental meds. So we are not the most accurate source either.
>
> You are young .... don't jump to mirapex, deprenyl, etc before trying the traditional meds. And don't get brainwash by some cure all internet article or study.
>
> Spike
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 13:05:48
In reply to Re: An SSRI such as Zoloft would work better for you, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 9, 2002, at 3:13:20
He's one of the best!!
> >Just because 5-HTP or St. John's Wort didn't work for you does not mean that Zoloft or Paxil would not. I've given myself fair trials of both 5-HTP & St. John's Wort & neither of them did anything! I have found that Herbs & supplements very often do not work & often are a waste of money & simply do not work as well as SSRIs. SSRIs are much stronger medicines than supplements or herbs.
>
> As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
>
> I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
>
> If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
>
> If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
>
> Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
>
> I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
>
> If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively.
>
>
>
>
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>
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 13:17:54
In reply to Re: Don't Jump the Gun this Early » spike4848, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 13:01:58
First, SSRI sexual dysfunction is totally reversible after the med is stopped. If people have persistant sexual dysfunction after being off SSRI it is either their depression or a physiology abnormality causing the dysfunction. Second, please don't get caught up in the serotonin-dopamine-norepinephrine game ... scientists don't know crap about the brain and even less about how these drugs work. Third, deprenyl usually requires doses in the range of 30 to 40 mg to relieve depression, at non selective maoi range .... so you will need the diet/drug restrictions.
Lastly, I admire your assertiveness .... never let that go. Always be proactive and keep educated.
Spike
P.S. I probably would try desipramine next ... but hey you never know what is going to work for each individual.
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 13:21:28
In reply to MY DOC DEALS ESPECIALLY WITH DEPRESSION! » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 13:05:48
> He's one of the best!!
What is his name?
Spike
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 13:35:09
In reply to What is your Doctor's Name? » Jason911, posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 13:21:28
Mill Creek Outpatient Services
(Health Midwest)
5701 W. 119th, Suite 407
Overland Park, KS 66209Leonel Urdaneta, M.D. (913) 339 9933
PS- any comments on the sexual side-effects that could destroy me??
> > He's one of the best!!
>
> What is his name?
>
> Spike
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 14:00:06
In reply to Re: Don't Jump the Gun this Early » Jason911, posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 13:17:54
> First, SSRI sexual dysfunction is totally reversible after the med is stopped.
That is good news to me.>****Second, please don't get caught up in the serotonin-dopamine-norepinephrine game ... scientists don't know crap about the brain and even less about how these drugs work.
I wouldn't go that far... but I definately know where you're coming from. Doctors still don't entirely know how Wellbutrin works in our bodies. But have you read my orginal post on deprenyl/dopamine/NE/serotonin? I think the discoverer of the deprenyl (Joesph Knoll)'s word can be at least CONSIDERED, ya know?>****Third, deprenyl usually requires doses in the range of 30 to 40 mg to relieve depression, at non selective maoi range .... so you will need the diet/drug restrictions.
Like I said, did you read my orginal post (all the way through!) I do know of the 30, 40, and even 60mg was effective, AND the dietary restrictions. My doctor brought this very point up and that dosages like that were not wise at my stage of treatment! But it's the phenylalanine (and vitamin's B6, C, and E wouldn't hurt.. maybe even 5-HTP) and NAC for precautional measures. Read my post again if you haven't read clearly. MAO-B inhibition won't do it alone. It's the combination that's the key! Only started in the 1990s... remember? I believe strongly in this. And even read some of the posts regarding these people's participation in the Selegiline Transdermal Patch study done not too long ago. Looks promising. So it's fairly unknown right now for use in depression.
>*** > Lastly, I admire your assertiveness .... never let that go. Always be proactive and keep educated.
Thank you very much. And you don't know how happy I am to have you and others chipping in on helping me get better. I am forever in your debt. And whatever I learn from my experiences and possible cure down the road I'll be sure and return these favors. God bless, Spike.
>
>
> > P.S. I probably would try desipramine next ... but hey you never know what is going to work for each individual.
I'll look into that. I've heard it mentioned here and there but don't know much about it. First of all, I hope it's available in the US because I don't want to pay high prices beacuse of insurance this an that... you know. Some people are recommending me medicines that are only available outside of the US... oh, well. At least they are trying to help. Tell me anything else that comes to your mind! -Jason911
Posted by Eloy on February 9, 2002, at 14:55:11
In reply to MUST READ (deprenyl, klonopin, adderall, wellb..) , posted by Jason911 on February 8, 2002, at 4:01:05
Jason911, you sound very intelligent and analytical. i seem to over-analyze things too. Anyhow, you seem to have your facts together, and i especially liked your last paragraph. i can relate to how you feel also because i too suffer with social anxiety and intermitten periods of depression. i'm a born again Christian and i pray to God alot, prayer does help.
Posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 18:14:56
In reply to MUST READ (deprenyl, klonopin, adderall, wellb..) , posted by Jason911 on February 8, 2002, at 4:01:05
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 18:47:53
In reply to Re: An SSRI such as Zoloft would work better for you, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 9, 2002, at 3:13:20
I am beginning to question your advice. You tell me that Zoloft will make you last longer and all that B.S. when you say you haven't gotten laid in 2 years (and you were drunk then). And then you go and reccommend Paxil!! The king of sexual dysfunction???... Shame on you. "It'll help your social skills with women"? Please. That's not my problem. I can hide tenseness and such. I can talk to women for God sakes. There's just an underlying anxiety that won't go away. It's the anxiety and nervousness I feel in those situations. And not just those situations either.. many other SP/anxiety symptoms. You wouldn't understand. Are you just trying to ruin my sex life because yours sucks so bad? Piss off man... thanks for nothing :) -you know the name
P.S. - My doctor SPECIALIZES in depression. That's his only field. Adults and young adults. That 3 beer effect isn't doing you much good. Get a job and get a life. Take my advice: Re-read my original post.
>
>
>>
Retard writes:
> "As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
>
> I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
>
> If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
>
> If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
****** THATS THE PROBLEM!!!! COMBINATIONS ARE PROVEN**************************************
>
> Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
>
> I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
>
> If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively."Butthead.
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Posted by IsoM on February 9, 2002, at 19:26:15
In reply to I think IsoM is needed here, ISOM where are you (nm), posted by spike4848 on February 9, 2002, at 18:14:56
What could I add to the other posts, Spike? I really don't know enough about all of what Jason wrote but have read some of it before. I still think psychopharmacology is still more an art, or trial-&-error. So very little is understood about our brain. It's like to trying to decipher an ancient manuscript with only knowing some of the words yet not even understanding their meanings.
Posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 20:19:16
In reply to 3 Beer gives sex advice* not laid in years*drunk » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 18:47:53
Posted by Bekka H. on February 9, 2002, at 23:01:45
In reply to MY DOCTOR IS A PSYCHIATRIST!!!!! (nm), posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 20:19:16
Jason, you seem really smart. I can't believe you're still in high school. I do agree, however, with spike that it's a bit early to start on an MAOI. Also, above a certain number of milligrams on Eldepryl, you have the same dietary restrictions as the old MAOIs, and that might be very difficult.
Again, I'm really impressed with your knowledge, your research and the way you express yourself.
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 0:18:27
In reply to Re: MY DOCTOR IS A PSYCHIATRIST!!!!!, posted by Bekka H. on February 9, 2002, at 23:01:45
Thanks for your caring, Bekka. I really admire your interest. I know it may seem early because of risks associated with MAOI's, but don't worry. 5 or 10mg will inhibit MAO-B only (no doubt). Above that is where it gets risky :) But personally, I'd say 20mg is where that point starts. I wouldn't need to worry about that anyway, 10mg will be my first dose/day and if all goes well, I plan on reducing to 5mg as soon as I feel the effects. And sex, as you know, is important to me which can be a risk with the SSRI's. I would rather try that first and THEN go to SSRI's. I really wish I didn't have to. With Wellbutrin not working and stimulants like Adderall & Ritalin not working for me, I don't see many other options other than SSRI class drugs such as Zoloft or Effexor or MAOI's (other than my selegiline) like Nardil which has its drawbacks. Definately not tri-cyclics. I'm leaning toward thinking I would be classified as your everyday atypical. They respond best to MAOI's. But, of course, my 5mg dose or so will prevent dietary risks. The mechanism of action won't be that of your typical MAOI, like Nardil, though. It's MAO-B inhibition with phenylalanine to promote PEA for catecholamine enhacement which should therefore promote concentration, motivation, and all around energy, while the Klonopin (not generic) in the morning (2mg) will help with my SP/anxiety problems. As a result I'm hoping to feel great, be sexually charged, and free of anxiety and just feel loose rather than tense and land myself a girlfriend. I'll let you know how it goes on Wednesday to see if I get my program approved and, more importantly, if it worked for me. Call me the guinea pig, if you will. I could set an example for others to follow if meds are not working for them. Adderall seemed to have the opposite effect you'd typically see in most people, which was kind of sedating at the 50mg dose I took today before the ACT (after 30mg yesterday produced no response) and also resulted in a slight headache for a few hours. Not for me. It was against doctors orders, but I knew 15mg was nowhere near workable and the nurse was telling me that he might want to increase my dose and/or try Adderall XR. After I tell him of my experience with the higher dosages, I'm sure he'll figure out that's not part of the needed solution. Hopefully, he'll keep an open mind and listen to, what I believe, is a valid argument for treatment. I figure there's low risk of side-effects so why not give it a shot for a month, y'know? Again, thanks for your input! Keep in touch and God bless... -Jason911
.
.
.> Jason, you seem really smart. I can't believe you're still in high school. I do agree, however, with spike that it's a bit early to start on an MAOI. Also, above a certain number of milligrams on Eldepryl, you have the same dietary restrictions as the old MAOIs, and that might be very difficult.
>
> Again, I'm really impressed with your knowledge, your research and the way you express yourself.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 0:26:46
In reply to 3 Beer gives sex advice* not laid in years*drunk » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 18:47:53
If you can't tolerate dopaminergics like Wellbutrin & Ritalin because of insomnia & rapid heartbeat why do you think you could tolerate l-deprenyl? That makes no logical sense. Go ahead & be an idiot & try l-deprenyl but you'll regret it later when you are nervous & can't sleep.
The only anti-depressant that doesn't cause insomnia & has no sexual side effects is Remeron, so if you had half a brain you would try that before l-deprenyl which is a potentially dangerous parkinson's disease drug rarely (if ever) used in the US for depression.
And getting psychopharmacology information from erowid.org? That is ridiculous- Erowid is a website largely devoted to disseminating information about how to manufacture illegal drugs like MDMA, GHB & methamphetamine.
Also, you'll do alot better in life if you don't act like such an a*shole to people that are trying to help you, especially if they older than you & have taken many more psychiatric medications than you. You might learn something from their experiences.
(In other words you don't know sh*t about sh*t!).
I would tell you good luck but your a di*k so screw you!3 Beers.
--------------------------------------------------> I am beginning to question your advice. You tell me that Zoloft will make you last longer and all that B.S. when you say you haven't gotten laid in 2 years (and you were drunk then). And then you go and reccommend Paxil!! The king of sexual dysfunction???... Shame on you. "It'll help your social skills with women"? Please. That's not my problem. I can hide tenseness and such. I can talk to women for God sakes. There's just an underlying anxiety that won't go away. It's the anxiety and nervousness I feel in those situations. And not just those situations either.. many other SP/anxiety symptoms. You wouldn't understand. Are you just trying to ruin my sex life because yours sucks so bad? Piss off man... thanks for nothing :) -you know the name
>
> P.S. - My doctor SPECIALIZES in depression. That's his only field. Adults and young adults. That 3 beer effect isn't doing you much good. Get a job and get a life. Take my advice: Re-read my original post.
>
Retard writes:
>
> > "As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
> >
> > I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> > Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
> >
> > If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
> >
> > If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
>
>
> ****** THATS THE PROBLEM!!!! COMBINATIONS ARE PROVEN**************************************
> >
> > Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
> >
> > I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
> >
> > If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively."
>
> Butthead.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 4:25:09
In reply to Hey a*shole I am trying to help you!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 0:26:46
I'll take it paragraph by paragraph on why we had differences of opinion:
> > > If you can't tolerate dopaminergics like Wellbutrin & Ritalin because of insomnia & rapid heartbeat why do you think you could tolerate l-deprenyl? That makes no logical sense. Go ahead & be an idiot & try l-deprenyl but you'll regret it later when you are nervous & can't sleep.< < <**
Keep an open mind here. I know alot more than you think. But HEY.. calm down, calm down. Don't take that to heart, I think I make a good point here: Wellbutrin isn't totally a dopaminergic. And not all dopaminergics act the same way in the brain (or the people that use them, for that matter). It is known to block the reuptake of NE to some extent but only mildly binds to the dopamine receptor site. Wellbutrin's actual mechanism of action is actually unknown. It has shown to actually DECREASE the amount of dopamine produced by the brain. But it may have some effect on the dopaminergic system in another way other than creating more dopamine at the synapse, no one really knows for sure. Just because Wellbutrin doesn't work in an individual doesn't mean that the problem isn't dopamine related by any means. Same with serotinergic meds. Serzone has its share of good responders, while others respond better to Effexor, or Prozac, or Zoloft. Serotonin is the heart of their problems, but if they thought like you, after having failed Serzone and Zoloft they'd give up and say that they don't respond to serotinergic meds. Take methylphenidate and Adderall as another example. Each are closely related to or a derivative of amphetamine and both are classified as stimulants but act quite differently in the brain and depends on the individual that uses them. Ritalin made me extremely hyper-active, whose actions tend to be more acute (does the "meth" part of the word provide any clue..) and shorter acting, while Adderall (which with me, had no effect, except as an appetite suppressant, until I tried 50mg - considered a high dose that makes most people feel euphoric or at least more alert to say the least - which made me a little sedated and gave me somewhat of a headache) tends to stimulate at a steady pace thanks to dextro-amphetamine and other salts, including levo-amphetamine, from 5 - 7 hours. IN MOST PEOPLE. I don't respond well to Adderall. Ritalin can work for someone while Adderall will not & vise versa or both may not work. These two meds stimulate the brain in different ways and are known to increase dopamine levels, but, other than increasing dopamine levels, they do many other things to the body and mind that can be harmful or cause side-effects, i.e. over-stimulating the central nervous system, in suseptable individuals, and not related directly to dopamine alone. It really does get complicated. But it seems to me that you think all dopaminergics do the same thing which is entirely false. Just because those two stimulants didn't work does not mean my problem is not dopamine related. Some dopaminergics increase dopamine directly at the synapse (these tend to lose effectiveness over time as the brain, over time, responds by reducing the amount of recieving neurons in respose to perpetual high levels of dopamine - called "homeostasis"), while others block it's uptake, while others help the body to produce it via stimulating the brain to more efficiently make and release the dopamine at the right times and in response to a given impulse (bascially by jump starting the mechanisms that recede the dopamine release). The brain is a hard thing to coax into doing what you would like it to do. As for insomnia, this only lasted for a week after starting the wellbutrin (like the psychiatrist anticipated) as wellbutrin also stimulates the CNS! But, he prescribed that clonazepam (not Klonopin as I previously stated - I recieved the generic - which I found out a few hours ago and I feel Klonopin is superior) at .5mg before bed. I don't need this to get to sleep as I have stopped that 4 days ago to prove this to myslelf. I think I would have gotten to sleep anyway after allowing a full week to get used to it, like he said, but I insisted I get assistance to get to sleep out of impatience. Plus for the past month, some days, I have taken it at around 10pm or so while not going to sleep til about 1 or 2am because I stayed up on this computer, dedicated to get as much information as I could in search of my "solution". I leave some info out of some of my posts as each of my posts would then resemble a short story (as if they aren't already). So really, the Wellbutrin did help a little in calming me down. The Adderall made me a little edgy at 30-50mg. So what? I'm done with it. Agitation? Remember from my original post, when I told the doctor about the various compliments I got from teachers? But it isn't enough and the stimulants are not working plus aren't a wise desicion for use over the long term (at least Adderall). There is an outside chance that I could fall under that treatment-resistant category or, otherwise, an atypical depressee! These people do, in fact, regardless of what you think, respond best to MAOI's. We know what side effects can come from MAOI's like diet restrictions and possibly weight gain and blah blah blah. Selegiline could, in theory, be just as good in treating depression although via different methods and the studies that were in my original post (that were in that paper of mine) were not advertisements or attached in any way to the sale of deprenyl, and just simply a medical student writing on the possible benefits and uses of this fairly unkown drug, compiling 4 well-respected and highly regarded studies on depression, in the US. The second study is actually in the manufacturer's insert (Youdim)! The reason deprenyl is rarely used in depression is mainly based on the first study from my other post that stated that MAO-B inhibition alone was simply not enough to battle depression unless used at non-selective doses (above 15mg- usually ranging from 30-60mg), but part of a potentially profound solution for this. Not to mention protection of brain cells from neurotoxicity. Scientists involved in studies of life-extension are well aware of it's benefits. There have been studies that you can actually use this if you happened to be an MDMA user (which I'm not) and prevent that damage due to neurotoxicity (cell damage) that occurs in multiple users or MPTP toxins from heroin use. There is much, much more that I haven't even mentioned yet and for good reason as it's not really relevant to the subject of depression. Sexual rejuvination for obvious well-explained reasons (just read other people's posts on their use of it- search for it). And Klonopin dosage I want for the morning for anxiety/phobia symptoms, which are almost as equally important to me as it impacts a large part of my everyday life, could also serve as a safeguard against possible insomnia from over-stimulation. Interestingly, (search Babble with the words "selegline" and "klonopin") getting to sleep should be a breeze and is only enhanced by the selegiline or other MAOI's such as Nardil. Both of these, however, are not near as effective by themselves. You know about deprenyl by now, but sole klonopin use can affect some people's short-term memory. But, I'm not disagreeing about the fact that I may not respond like the others or the 60 or 70% of the patients from the studies. NOT EVERY PERSON REACTS THE SAME TO A SPECIFIC MEDICATION.
>
> > > The only anti-depressant that doesn't cause insomnia & has no sexual side effects is Remeron, so if you had half a brain you would try that before l-deprenyl which is a potentially dangerous parkinson's disease drug rarely (if ever) used in the US for depression.< < <.
.
Deprenyl is the least bit dangerous. The only side effects ever reported in people without digenerative brain diseases were agitation, insomnia, and nausea (usually due to too much of a specific transmitter). Deprenyl is reported in most human studies to be well tolerated. *Typically, no abnormalities are noted in blood pressure, laboratory valves, ECG, or EEG (Tolbert, S. & Fuller, M. - 1996 - "Selegiline in the treatment of behavioral and cognitive symptoms of Alzheimer disease" ANN PHARMACOTHER 30, 1122-29).Remeron? Side Effects: Feeling sleepy, dizzy, or tired - Increased appetite - weight gain - Nausea - Constipation - Dry mouth - Odd or unusual dreams (common)
You know why deprenyl is used rarely by now don't you? It's from assumptions and dismissal based on the fact of the effectiveness of sole MAO-B inhibition alone. However, dosages were quite effective but at non-selective doses (30-60mg) and, ultimately, a low side-effect solution to other MAOI's.
>
> > > And getting psychopharmacology information from erowid.org? That is ridiculous- Erowid is a website largely devoted to disseminating information about how to manufacture illegal drugs like MDMA, GHB & methamphetamine.< < <.
.
.
You could look at it that way but that information is off site. BTW, it's erowid.COM! It informs us all about not only commonly used and abused drugs (informative to the curious and points out pros and cons and by no means encourages drug use) and tell it like it is, but also about all kinds of pharmacutical drugs and vitamins/herbs. Other readers can see for themselves. Quit being so negative. They were one of many sources of information..
.
> > > Also, you'll do alot better in life if you don't act like such an a*shole to people that are trying to help you, especially if they older than you & have taken many more psychiatric medications than you. You might learn something from their experiences.< < <.
.
I had somewhat of a stern tone in my last response to you beacuse I was a little perturbed about the fact that I expressed that I was reluctant to try (and would like to avoid if at all possible) and had an extreme dislike for SSRI's because of their sexual side effects. But that is what you go and recommend, saying it would improve my sex life, while also neglecting to mention the large percentage of people that experienced sexual side-effects, i.e. inorgasmia. And all this after I read that you hadn't had sex in 2 years and that was in a drunken state with a fat woman. Plus, you're bipolar (no offense). Extreme highs and lows is the definition and maybe that had something to do with your managable sexual function. I am in a completely different situation and a good 50% at least of men that are unipolar or that take it for anxiety experience sexual side-effects. ABCNews.com reported that that number could be as high as 60% percent of all SSRI's users. That information could have been useful. And my goal, by the way, is to go through as few meds as possible so as to not screw my brain up so bad that it doesn't know whether to make serotonin or bust into a convulsion. You do have the "experience" but that's not neccesarily a good basis for an opinion if your bipolar. Your brain is operating alot different than mine. In your case, I'd be reluctant to give suggestions to people who's diagnosis is completely different than yours as the meds that have worked for you could have a completely different effect on a person with different problems and most likely require different solutions. Same could happen even if the diagnosis was similar to yours but at least you'd be working in familiar territory and therefore would be perfectly acceptable to provide your thoughts and opinions.> (In other words you don't know sh*t about sh*t!).
I have a 4.0 GPA and on my way to IT school. Obviously, I know something. I possess a great deal of common sense and an uncanny ability to learn quite fast. I know my problems and have come up with a solution for it based on what i've learned. We'll know who's right after Wednesday. Time will tell...
.
.
> I would tell you good luck but your a di*k so screw you!< < <
>
NOW WAIT JUST A MINUTE! HOW RUDE. WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DRINKING??
> 3 Beers.
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > I am beginning to question your advice. You tell me that Zoloft will make you last longer and all that B.S. when you say you haven't gotten laid in 2 years (and you were drunk then). And then you go and reccommend Paxil!! The king of sexual dysfunction???... Shame on you. "It'll help your social skills with women"? Please. That's not my problem. I can hide tenseness and such. I can talk to women for God sakes. There's just an underlying anxiety that won't go away. It's the anxiety and nervousness I feel in those situations. And not just those situations either.. many other SP/anxiety symptoms. You wouldn't understand. Are you just trying to ruin my sex life because yours sucks so bad? Piss off man... thanks for nothing :) -you know the name
> >
> > P.S. - My doctor SPECIALIZES in depression. That's his only field. Adults and young adults. That 3 beer effect isn't doing you much good. Get a job and get a life. Take my advice: Re-read my original post.
> >
> Retard writes:
> >
> > > "As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
> > >
> > > I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> > > Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
> > >
> > > If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
> > >
> > > If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
> >
> >
> > ****** THATS THE PROBLEM!!!! COMBINATIONS ARE PROVEN**************************************
> > >
> > > Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
> > >
> > > I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
> > >
> > > If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively."
> >
> > Butthead.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Posted by Joel on February 10, 2002, at 4:59:03
In reply to OK! I feel bad but hear me out, beer man » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 10, 2002, at 4:25:09
Jason911, practically everything you said was pasted directly out of biopsychiatry.com, and i take 5mg of deprenyl with 50mg of HTP.
I can tell you that beer man is probably right, I think deprenyl is only good for people who dont respond to other treatments cause it doesnt work as well most of the time. Although for manic depressives with sensitivity to most anti depressants, sure its probably the best choice. For a dysphoric person like yourself, Id try an SSRI.
But to be bluntly honest, 300mg of HTP is a lot of goddamn HTP. i cant find more than 50mg in a pill(and btw HTP means nothing without B-6 so you should get plenty of that as well). Oh and btw, HTP is just as much of a sexual depleter as most SSRI's. Its not a bad thing though cause instead you just DONT WANT sex, which is good.
Oh also wellbutrin increases dopamine production and decreases release.
Posted by jay on February 10, 2002, at 5:30:25
In reply to Hey a*shole I am trying to help you!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 0:26:46
Can't we be a little nicer to each other??...we are all going through pain, an none of us has *the* answer.
Jay
> If you can't tolerate dopaminergics like Wellbutrin & Ritalin because of insomnia & rapid heartbeat why do you think you could tolerate l-deprenyl? That makes no logical sense. Go ahead & be an idiot & try l-deprenyl but you'll regret it later when you are nervous & can't sleep.
>
> The only anti-depressant that doesn't cause insomnia & has no sexual side effects is Remeron, so if you had half a brain you would try that before l-deprenyl which is a potentially dangerous parkinson's disease drug rarely (if ever) used in the US for depression.
>
> And getting psychopharmacology information from erowid.org? That is ridiculous- Erowid is a website largely devoted to disseminating information about how to manufacture illegal drugs like MDMA, GHB & methamphetamine.
>
> Also, you'll do alot better in life if you don't act like such an a*shole to people that are trying to help you, especially if they older than you & have taken many more psychiatric medications than you. You might learn something from their experiences.
> (In other words you don't know sh*t about sh*t!).
> I would tell you good luck but your a di*k so screw you!
>
> 3 Beers.
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > I am beginning to question your advice. You tell me that Zoloft will make you last longer and all that B.S. when you say you haven't gotten laid in 2 years (and you were drunk then). And then you go and reccommend Paxil!! The king of sexual dysfunction???... Shame on you. "It'll help your social skills with women"? Please. That's not my problem. I can hide tenseness and such. I can talk to women for God sakes. There's just an underlying anxiety that won't go away. It's the anxiety and nervousness I feel in those situations. And not just those situations either.. many other SP/anxiety symptoms. You wouldn't understand. Are you just trying to ruin my sex life because yours sucks so bad? Piss off man... thanks for nothing :) -you know the name
> >
> > P.S. - My doctor SPECIALIZES in depression. That's his only field. Adults and young adults. That 3 beer effect isn't doing you much good. Get a job and get a life. Take my advice: Re-read my original post.
> >
> Retard writes:
> >
> > > "As far as sexual side effects go, Zoloft does not affect the ability to get it up but it just makes you last longer. The people in which SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction are mostly middle aged married men who have trouble ejaculating without popping a Viagra! In a teenage male (most of whom suffer from premature ejaculation) it should be a godsend! I am 23 & before Zoloft I was a 2 minute man, but while taking Zoloft I could last over a half an hour- a sex god!- ask women which man they would prefer! It also appears to make orgasms more intense.
> > >
> > > I have been reading about psychopharmacology for about a year now, & with your agitated state the last thing you need is a dopaminergic. Increases in Dopamine help concentration & motivation, but also can cause agitation, insomnia, & in high doses schizophrenic like paranoia. (In fact severly agitated depressives are often given anti-depressants or atypical anti-psychotics that block the actions of dopamine). I previously thought Zoloft may help you since it does have some dopamine reuptake inhibition properties, but it, along with Prozac are the most 'activating' of the SSRIs & often cause insomnia. With your agitation & insomnia you would be better off with Paxil, Celexa or Remeron. (Of the SSRIs Paxil has the worst sexual side effects & Celexa the least side effects).
> > > Remeron has no sexual side effects whatsoever,& it seems to be pro-sexual- 30 or 45 mg are a good starting dose, the higher the dose the less sedating Remeron is- don't take 15 mg it is too sedating. If you find 45 mg is too sedating up to 60 mg can be used & has virtually no side effects).
> > >
> > > If you are prescribed an anti-depressant please do not take Selegeline (l-deprenyl) in addition to it because it can result in a very serious drug interaction (See PDR).
> > >
> > > If you absolutely are set on taking a dopaminergic Mirapex is a far better choice & is actually used as a dopaminergic anti-depressant while L-Deprenyl is used for this purpose very rarely, if ever.
> >
> >
> > ****** THATS THE PROBLEM!!!! COMBINATIONS ARE PROVEN**************************************
> > >
> > > Your response to Adderall is not necessarily similar to the response you will have to a dopaminergic. Adderall releases & blocks the reuputake of BOTH Norepinephrine & Dopamine. Wellbutrin is a norepinephrine & dopamine reuputake inhibitor. Ritalin works as a relatively selective dopamine reuptake inhibitor. If you had a poor response to Ritalin, your response to l-deprenyl will probably just as bad (or worse since l-deprenyl lasts longer). Also, keep in mind that l-phenylalanine increases agitation & insomnia & nervousness.
> > >
> > > I think you are making a mistake that is going to result in more anger & agitation. I think either Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa or Remeron 30-45 mg would be a much better choice for you but it often takes people trials of many different medications before they find the right combination. Zoloft or Paxil will help you to be more sociable, funny, & popular- especially with girls, while Remeron will calm down your agitation/anger/anxiety & gives most people the best-quality sleep of their life.
> > >
> > > If you have health insurance, I would ask your general doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist. I have a feeling that it is going to take awhile to find the right combination to treat your problems & general doctors are simply not knowledgeable enough about psychiatric medications to help you effectively."
> >
> > Butthead.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
Posted by Dinah on February 10, 2002, at 8:27:17
In reply to Whoa! Holy Un-Civil! » 3 Beer Effect, posted by jay on February 10, 2002, at 5:30:25
I agree with you 110%, Jay, but it looked as if that post was directed only to 3 Beer Affect, in which case you really should read further up the thread.
There are a few posts in this thread that can only make me assume that Dr. Bob is away this weekend.
Really, it should be possible to discuss differences in opinion on meds without resorting to name calling. Jay is perfectly right. We should be civil to one another. I'm just questioning the > > directed to in the title.
3 Beer Effect, I read lower down that you're planning to leave this site. I hope it isn't over this. Dr. Bob usually keeps things in much better control.
I really hate to butt in here. (I really do - BELIEVE ME.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 10:20:37
In reply to 3 Beer gives sex advice* not laid in years*drunk » 3 Beer Effect, posted by Jason911 on February 9, 2002, at 18:47:53
> Piss off man... thanks for nothing :)
Please be civil, I'd like for the atmosphere here to be supportive.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Bob
PS: Any discussion about posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2002, at 10:25:49
In reply to Hey a*shole I am trying to help you!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 10, 2002, at 0:26:46
Posted by Ed on February 10, 2002, at 10:31:37
In reply to MUST READ (deprenyl, klonopin, adderall, wellb..) , posted by Jason911 on February 8, 2002, at 4:01:05
I'll bet anybody a nickle no SSRI will work for Jason911, nor will tricyclics. But I do wonder, given his assertiveness and clear writing, whether he needs an antidepressant at all. I am thinking klonopin alone might do just fine for him. Anyway, if any "antidepressant" is going to do anything for him, it is going to be a dopamine-based antidepressant, such as adrafinil or selegiline. (To that he can add either klonopin, or mirapex or requir or amisulpride, if agitation or nervousness occur).
Posted by Kristi on February 10, 2002, at 13:37:46
In reply to Re: MUST READ (deprenyl, klonopin, adderall, wellb..) , posted by Ed on February 10, 2002, at 10:31:37
I found your story to be very interesting, and I agree with some others, you sound very intelligent and more importantly... in tune with yourself. Wow.... if I had that kind of intelligence at your age :) Good luck on wed... and I'll be looking forward to your post. Take care, Kristi
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