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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SalArmy4me on September 26, 2001, at 23:23:13
Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 9:30:58
In reply to Schizophrenia Question, posted by SalArmy4me on September 26, 2001, at 23:23:13
> Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
I've never seen them referred to as positive;
where did you see that?Squiggles
Posted by Mitch on September 27, 2001, at 10:32:41
In reply to Schizophrenia Question, posted by SalArmy4me on September 26, 2001, at 23:23:13
> Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
Hi Sal,
The "positive" symptoms have to do with hallucinations, delusions, disordered thinking, etc. The "negative" symptoms have to do with the *absence* of everyday activity such as social withdrawal, depression as a result of that, etc.
Mitch
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 11:10:21
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by Mitch on September 27, 2001, at 10:32:41
> > Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
>
> Hi Sal,
>
> The "positive" symptoms have to do with hallucinations, delusions, disordered thinking, etc. The "negative" symptoms have to do with the *absence* of everyday activity such as social withdrawal, depression as a result of that, etc.
>
> Mitch
That sounds totally arbitrary imho - much would
depend on the type of hallucinations and the
type of everyday activity; also the hallucinations
may be so horrible that they disrupt any kind
of everyday activity. I tried to register at the
alt.schizophrenia group to see what people
experience in this illness, but I couldn't.I have been curious about the hallucinations --
are they true hallucinations, or distortions
of something like tinnitus, for example,
interpreted into the person's cognitive set?Squiggles
Posted by Mitch on September 27, 2001, at 12:55:11
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 11:10:21
> > > Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
> >
> > Hi Sal,
> >
> > The "positive" symptoms have to do with hallucinations, delusions, disordered thinking, etc. The "negative" symptoms have to do with the *absence* of everyday activity such as social withdrawal, depression as a result of that, etc.
> >
> > Mitch
>
>
> That sounds totally arbitrary imho - much would
> depend on the type of hallucinations and the
> type of everyday activity; also the hallucinations
> may be so horrible that they disrupt any kind
> of everyday activity. I tried to register at the
> alt.schizophrenia group to see what people
> experience in this illness, but I couldn't.
>
> I have been curious about the hallucinations --
> are they true hallucinations, or distortions
> of something like tinnitus, for example,
> interpreted into the person's cognitive set?
>
> SquigglesSorry, maybe this will make it a little clearer:
http://www.mentalhealth.com/book/p40-sc01.html#Head_4b
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 13:29:31
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by Mitch on September 27, 2001, at 12:55:11
> > > > Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
> > >
> > > Hi Sal,
> > >
> > > The "positive" symptoms have to do with hallucinations, delusions, disordered thinking, etc. The "negative" symptoms have to do with the *absence* of everyday activity such as social withdrawal, depression as a result of that, etc.
> > >
> > > Mitch
> >
> >
> > That sounds totally arbitrary imho - much would
> > depend on the type of hallucinations and the
> > type of everyday activity; also the hallucinations
> > may be so horrible that they disrupt any kind
> > of everyday activity. I tried to register at the
> > alt.schizophrenia group to see what people
> > experience in this illness, but I couldn't.
> >
> > I have been curious about the hallucinations --
> > are they true hallucinations, or distortions
> > of something like tinnitus, for example,
> > interpreted into the person's cognitive set?
> >
> > Squiggles
>
> Sorry, maybe this will make it a little clearer:
> http://www.mentalhealth.com/book/p40-sc01.html#Head_4bOh, I see. The positive are the "extroverted"
signs, while the "negative" are the withdrawn"
type. Well, what can I say. I understand why
Kraeplin wanted to find physical tests for
mental illness, such as blood tests; unfortunately,
the best we can hope for in that direction is
when a physical illness presents with mental
symptoms, e.g. syphillis or hyperthyroidism.It is a sad state indeed - maybe one day we
will have more specific diagnostic tools.I found this particular site to be very
helpful:Squiggles
Posted by jay on September 27, 2001, at 19:49:32
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 13:29:31
The DSM is not perfect, but it sets out an amazing number of well researched criteria for diagnosis. Considering, how difficult it is to target mental illness in the first place.
I am sorry, but I feel there is no need for anti-psychiartic propoganda on here. We face enough opposition in the world as it is, and your rhetoric does more in a pathetic attempt to divide and hurt people in pain. If you have a grudge or an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.
Jay
>I understand why
> Kraeplin wanted to find physical tests for
> mental illness, such as blood tests; unfortunately,
> the best we can hope for in that direction is
> when a physical illness presents with mental
> symptoms, e.g. syphillis or hyperthyroidism.
>
> It is a sad state indeed - maybe one day we
> will have more specific diagnostic tools.
>
> I found this particular site to be very
> helpful:
>
> Squiggles
>
>
> http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com/antipsychiatry.htm
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 20:50:08
In reply to Re: Anti-psychiatric propoganda » Squiggles, posted by jay on September 27, 2001, at 19:49:32
> The DSM is not perfect, but it sets out an amazing number of well researched criteria for diagnosis. Considering, how difficult it is to target mental illness in the first place.
>
> I am sorry, but I feel there is no need for anti-psychiartic propoganda on here. We face enough opposition in the world as it is, and your rhetoric does more in a pathetic attempt to divide and hurt people in pain. If you have a grudge or an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.
>
> Jay
>
>
> >I understand why
> > Kraeplin wanted to find physical tests for
> > mental illness, such as blood tests; unfortunately,
> > the best we can hope for in that direction is
> > when a physical illness presents with mental
> > symptoms, e.g. syphillis or hyperthyroidism.
> >
> > It is a sad state indeed - maybe one day we
> > will have more specific diagnostic tools.
> >
> > I found this particular site to be very
> > helpful:
> >
> > Squiggles
> >
> >
> > http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com/antipsychiatry.htm
How rude. It is true that Psychiatry today with
the DSM as its guide saves many from misery, but
that doesn't mean that the state that it is, doesn't also
put some in misery. There is room for improvement.
If that is an axe a grind, it is every psychiatrist's
axe. Critical Psychiatry is a coallition of
psychiatrists, not a coallition of anti-psychiatrists.Squiggles
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 17:31:08
In reply to Re: Anti-psychiatric propoganda » Squiggles, posted by jay on September 27, 2001, at 19:49:32
> We face enough opposition in the world as it is, and your rhetoric does more in a pathetic attempt to divide and hurt people in pain.
Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong and don't post anything that they could take as accusatory or put them down.
Also, follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, others to Psycho-Social-Babble. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2001, at 7:57:50
In reply to Re: please be civil (and redirect all follow-ups), posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2001, at 17:31:08
> follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, others to Psycho-Social-Babble.
And here's a link to the latter:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010927/msgs/11900.html
Bob
Posted by DaveAAA on October 8, 2001, at 16:13:20
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2001, at 13:29:31
> > > > > Why are symptoms of schizophrenia refered to as positive or negative? They all sound pretty bad to me.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Sal,
> > > >
> > > > The "positive" symptoms have to do with hallucinations, delusions, disordered thinking, etc. The "negative" symptoms have to do with the *absence* of everyday activity such as social withdrawal, depression as a result of that, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Mitch
> > >
> > >
> > > That sounds totally arbitrary imho - much would
> > > depend on the type of hallucinations and the
> > > type of everyday activity; also the hallucinations
> > > may be so horrible that they disrupt any kind
> > > of everyday activity. I tried to register at the
> > > alt.schizophrenia group to see what people
> > > experience in this illness, but I couldn't.
> > >
> > > I have been curious about the hallucinations --
> > > are they true hallucinations, or distortions
> > > of something like tinnitus, for example,
> > > interpreted into the person's cognitive set?
> > >
> > > Squiggles
> >
> > Sorry, maybe this will make it a little clearer:
> > http://www.mentalhealth.com/book/p40-sc01.html#Head_4b
>
>
>
> Oh, I see. The positive are the "extroverted"
> signs, while the "negative" are the withdrawn"
> type. Well, what can I say. I understand why
> Kraeplin wanted to find physical tests for
> mental illness, such as blood tests; unfortunately,
> the best we can hope for in that direction is
> when a physical illness presents with mental
> symptoms, e.g. syphillis or hyperthyroidism.
>
> It is a sad state indeed - maybe one day we
> will have more specific diagnostic tools.
>
> I found this particular site to be very
> helpful:
>
> Squiggles
>
>
>HI,
I believe it is also noteworthy that positive symptoms indicate a better prognosis for recovering from schizophrenia.
Negative symptoms indicate a worse prognosis for recovering from schizophrenia.
So, if you have a lot of positive symptoms, than you have a better chance of recovery. If you have a lot of negative symptoms than you have a worse chance of recovery.
Also note, if you have negative symptoms, clozarill can attack these, where other anti-psychotics may not.
http://www.critpsynet.freeuk.com/antipsychiatry.htm
Posted by Willow on October 9, 2001, at 18:56:56
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia Question, posted by DaveAAA on October 8, 2001, at 16:13:20
DaveAAA
Thanks for the medication mentioned. My father has had schizophrenia for several decades now. As you mentioned many of the psychotic medications only helped the positive symptoms. Now he is on one of the newer meds and it has helped with the negative symptoms. (I'm drawing a blank on the name of it.) Have you had any experience with TD? Just curious as through the years my father unfortunately has gotten a bad case because of the meds.
BEST WISHES
Willow
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