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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by wendi on September 4, 2001, at 10:23:50
In reply to Re: New to Effexor XR, my side effects, anyone else?, posted by Jayce on September 3, 2001, at 10:02:23
> I started out on 35mg of effexor and within days I had more energy, stopped crying all the time, and actually was able to complete tasks that I was working on. Before I started I was so tired and depressed, I could'nt even think clearly enough or had the patience to finish what I started. My doctor increased my dosage slowly taking me up to 300 mgs. I found that the lower dosage actually helped more. The higher the dose the more irritable and shakey I became. I am now in the process of going back down to 150mg. Without effexor I probably would have lost my husband and possibly my job. It has completely turned my life around. I was not always depressed but the last two years have been stressfull and medication was necessary. I hope it helps you as much as it helped me. Again, the dosage you take is totally up to you. As you experience each dosage you will find what works and what is to much for your body. Good Luck!
I am a normal person, because of Effexor XR!! (And I can speak for a few other people who would say the same thing.) I have been on several antidepressants since I began experiencing severe PMS symptoms, coupled with multiple losses that caused situational depression. Effexor XR is the best drug for me. The others, Paxil and Zoloft, made me sleepy and unmotivated, not to mention caused weight-gain. I think that most people who need help altering their brain chemistry should expect some minor side-effects. The question you need to ask yourself is, "Does this medicine make my life better, regardless of the side-effects?" All medicines have side-effects whether noticeable or not. Luckily, there are many good alternatives out there for depression and other problems that people, especially women, experience. Find a doctor who will work with you to find the medicine that is right for you. And educate yourself on the causes for your personal situation. If it's related to PMS, there are other things that you can do, in conjuction with taking an antidepressant, that can help ease your symptoms. Good Luck!
Posted by nwysca on September 4, 2001, at 16:04:38
In reply to Re: New to Effexor XR, my side effects, anyone else?, posted by wendi on September 4, 2001, at 10:33:58
Does anyone else here wake up with bad headaches?? Is it the Effexor??
Posted by Willow on September 4, 2001, at 16:47:01
In reply to Headaches, posted by nwysca on September 4, 2001, at 16:04:38
> Does anyone else here wake up with bad headaches?? Is it the Effexor??
NywscaWhen I started effexor XR I would get headaches several hours before my next dose. The doctor split my dosage so that I took it twice a day. This solved the problem, which would return if I forgot a dose.
BEST WISHES
Willow
Posted by Aquage on September 4, 2001, at 17:14:48
In reply to Re: New to Effexor XR, my side effects, anyone else?, posted by Jayce on September 3, 2001, at 10:02:23
I have been on Effexor XR apx. 2 months. I'm now at 225 mgs. Side effects in the beginning were constipation, felt unsociable while at the very lowest dosage, dry mouth. As I have raised dosage, I now have hot flashes and night sweats. This is my only side effect. I am willing to tolerate this because of the wonderful effect it has had on my depression. The only side-effect I liked is it caused me to lose weight (this is now disappearing, darn!) Actually, my depression was lifted in apx. nine days after starting my first dose.
Posted by wendi on September 4, 2001, at 17:18:51
In reply to Headaches, posted by nwysca on September 4, 2001, at 16:04:38
>When I went to 300mg I started getting headaches. I lowered my dose because I had them all night and day. Now I feel alot better. From what I understand, in most people they go away in a few weeks after changing your dose. I hope yours go away too. They are no fun! Good Luck
Does anyone else here wake up with bad headaches?? Is it the Effexor??
Posted by Kristie on September 5, 2001, at 9:00:14
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Kristie, posted by tobycat on August 31, 2001, at 0:18:49
Thanks tobycat, I seem to be doing great now, thank goodness! It took a couple of weeks though. I did take the 37.5 mgs for 2 weeks before getting off of it completely. I still get headaches, but it may be due to my sinuses and not withdrawal from the effexor. Thanks for writing in response to my request.
> The discontinuation effects of anti-depressent medications are well known. For Effexor, they tend to be more pronounced for people who take it for a long time, at higher doses, and who stop abruptly. Tapering off slowly is the key to minimizing the effects. For some people that may mean going down to the 37.5 mg dose for a few weeks from the 75mg. Others go down even lower or take the dose every other day for awhile before totally stopping. Another tip I have read about is taking an SSRI with a longer half-life (like Prozac) at the very end to help ease the withdrawal symptoms. Good luck with the symptoms. If you are in serious discomfort be sure to tell your doctor about it. He/She should be helping you deal with the discontinuation effects. Hang in there.
>
> > I just got off of Effexor XR 75 mgs after about a year and it really helped me alot. Today is my first day off and I feel like crap! My head feels really heavy and I can't think straight. I will never again try an anti-depressent/anti-anxiety for my problems. I cannot stand the side effects from withdrawal. But then again some people need medicine to help them; my depression and anxiety wasn't as bad as some people have. If at all possible I would recommend other alternatives instead of medicine to help deal with depression just because they are very easy to become dependent upon. If someone knows of something to help me deal with these withdrawal symptoms please let me know. Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > > I've had pretty good luck on Effexor. I started taking it a year ago for
> > > moderate depression with symptoms including crying spells, no
> > > appetite, and feelings of hopelessness. I had some somewhat distressing
> > > side effects during the first two to three weeks on the medication (37.5
> > > mg per day for one week and then to 75 mg per day). The side effects
> > > included insomnia, drowsiness during the day, and hearing a buzzing noise
> > > in my head. These side effects went away, except for the drowsiness,
> > > which I continued to experience to some extent. I went up to 150 mg/day
> > > (taken in the morning) after about 5 months of being on Effexor due to
> > > some of my symptoms coming back (although they were less severe than
> > > before I began Effexor). I decided in May of this year that I wanted to
> > > see if I still needed to be on an antidepressant. My doctor advised me
> > > about how best to discontinue my use of Effexor. I decreased my dosage very gradually and
> > > also took 10 mg of Prozac while I was decreasing my Effexor dose. I didn't experience very
> > > many side effects while I was decreasing my dosage (some slight nausea),
> > > but I did find that I didn't feel very well for about a week after I took
> > > my last dose. I felt kind of nauseous and tired and a
> > > little bit dizzy at times. I was able to go to work and get done what I
> > > needed to despite these withdrawal symptoms. I was off of the medication
> > > for about 2 months when I started to get the symptoms back in full force.
> > > I really believe this is due to my chemical make-up (and family history of
> > > depression) rather than to getting off of Effexor. I decided to go back
> > > on Effexor. I began taking 37.5 mg again and worked up to 150 mg. I
> > > think at this time I just need an antidepressant, although I do hope that
> > > at some point I will be able to go off of the medication again. Overall,
> > > I would recommend Effexor since I have found it extremely helpful for
> > > depression symptoms, and I have not been bothered by the side effects or
> > > the withdrawal symptoms.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi there,
> > > >
> > > > Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> > > > "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> > > > Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
> > > >
> > > > Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> > > > to have a lot of success...
> > > >
> > > > please share your thoughts on this.
Posted by Rompy on September 9, 2001, at 18:13:48
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> Hi there,
>
> Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
>
> Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> to have a lot of success...
>
> please share your thoughts on this.Jeez this web-site is complicated!
Anyway,About Aug.1998 my shrink put me on effexor. On the very day I took it I realized that my toes were moving around like crazy.I couldn't stop them. I got hot flashes that were so bad that I had to sleep on the floor downstairs where the air-conditioning was freezing, nervous legs, an occasional severe seizure like movement,and a mild buzzing on the bottoms of my feet,accompanied by what could be described as itching.I told the shrink, he told me not to worry about it.So I didn't. I liked the deadness that effoxor caused and I continued on the drug for another year, and during that time the good doctor told me to increase the dosage. So I did. After a while I felt as if I was being poisened, literally chemically saturated.
I started weaning myself off slowly,until I was down to one capsule.From there I asked the shrink to put me on something else. He tried Paxil,zoloft,finally prozac. All of the drugs agitated me,(the Paxil made me want to KILL people, so I quit after one dose. Paxil is REALLY wierd.
Finally after I was down to 20 mg.of Prozac I was able to withdraw and quit anti-depressants,(with the help of a tiny dose of St.John's wart.)I was only on the zoloft and other drugs for a short time before quitting completely.
I expected the twitching and so forth to stop. But it didn't. The itching was beginning to slowly turn into slightly painful pricks.They eventually became very painful and frequent. Sometimes I felt like I was being jabbed in the eyes,the tongue,and everywhere else with an electric needle.The mild buzzing that had initially starting on the bottoms of my feet became an intense burning,and had spread to my legs and arms. My eyes always burned. I was totally agitated,yet constantly tired and paranoid.
Months later,after I had quit all anti-depressants, I still had been taking it in stride, sort of wondering if it was that serious. I went to my regular doctor three times,each time being given some trial and error medicine that never worked. ( Of course I was still charged by the good doctor,even though he failed to help.Doctors are immune to that sort of thing you know).
What got my attention was when I was at the doctor,(m.d.) for the third time and my wife came along to have her fibro-myolgia treated. He gave her CELEXA.
After the first two doses she told me it was working pretty good.
However,after waking on the third morning,her toes had also began to move around.She had the exact same symptoms that I had after only two doses.Now you may be thinking, she's a bit nutty and she wants attention,or some such thing. But there were many
subtle details that I had never told her, and that she described to me to a T.
She had her last dose 2 weeks ago and is still experiencing the symptoms which are gradually getting worse.Then we found the anti-Prozac site which explained why we are still having the symptoms occur.My shrink and medical doctor said that we couldn't be experiencing these problems,but this web-site not only acknowleged that we could,but explained why. The symptoms that I have described have continued two years after getting off effexor.
If any of you are plagued by simalar symptoms please write me and tell us that we're not alone!!
Anyway,I'm going to
Posted by nwysca on September 9, 2001, at 19:09:46
In reply to Re: Headaches » nwysca, posted by wendi on September 4, 2001, at 17:18:51
thanks willow and wendy!
at least i can relax knowing it's effexor and not something else! the headaches haven't been so bad for the past few days so hopefully they're gone for good now!!! ;o)
nwysca
Posted by nwysca on September 9, 2001, at 19:11:23
In reply to Effexor and PTSD, posted by Nwysca on August 15, 2001, at 9:51:39
i've been really breaking out since starting effexor.. and it reaaally sucks!!! i'm really not used to it and i feel so ugly and yucky! :o(
is anyone else experiencing this??? i think i heard about effexor causing this, but i'm not too sure..nwysca
Posted by Kristi on September 9, 2001, at 19:12:18
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Rompy on September 9, 2001, at 18:13:48
You definately are not alone!!!!!!!!!!! I was on effexor for a short amount of time.... and still 5 months later am feeling some of the withdrawal effects...... tho non dibilating, very annoying. Every day I keep thinking today is the day that it's going to go away....
Pretty scary that a drug can do that to you... I wish I can say some comforting words out their to let you know that it's going to stop... but it hasn't for me yet... but yes know... It's not you, and you alone!!!! There is some comfort in that thought. My best wishes to you and your wife. Kristi
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Anyone care to comment on the use of Effexor? Anyone
> > "happy" with it? I have tried Prozac (too much anxiety),
> > Serzone (too sedating). I am currently on Buspar for anxiety.
> >
> > Been reading many different reports... Effexor seems
> > to have a lot of success...
> >
> > please share your thoughts on this.
>
> Jeez this web-site is complicated!
> Anyway,About Aug.1998 my shrink put me on effexor. On the very day I took it I realized that my toes were moving around like crazy.I couldn't stop them. I got hot flashes that were so bad that I had to sleep on the floor downstairs where the air-conditioning was freezing, nervous legs, an occasional severe seizure like movement,and a mild buzzing on the bottoms of my feet,accompanied by what could be described as itching.
>
> I told the shrink, he told me not to worry about it.So I didn't. I liked the deadness that effoxor caused and I continued on the drug for another year, and during that time the good doctor told me to increase the dosage. So I did. After a while I felt as if I was being poisened, literally chemically saturated.
> I started weaning myself off slowly,until I was down to one capsule.From there I asked the shrink to put me on something else. He tried Paxil,zoloft,finally prozac. All of the drugs agitated me,(the Paxil made me want to KILL people, so I quit after one dose. Paxil is REALLY wierd.
> Finally after I was down to 20 mg.of Prozac I was able to withdraw and quit anti-depressants,(with the help of a tiny dose of St.John's wart.)
>
> I was only on the zoloft and other drugs for a short time before quitting completely.
>
> I expected the twitching and so forth to stop. But it didn't. The itching was beginning to slowly turn into slightly painful pricks.They eventually became very painful and frequent. Sometimes I felt like I was being jabbed in the eyes,the tongue,and everywhere else with an electric needle.The mild buzzing that had initially starting on the bottoms of my feet became an intense burning,and had spread to my legs and arms. My eyes always burned. I was totally agitated,yet constantly tired and paranoid.
>
> Months later,after I had quit all anti-depressants, I still had been taking it in stride, sort of wondering if it was that serious. I went to my regular doctor three times,each time being given some trial and error medicine that never worked. ( Of course I was still charged by the good doctor,even though he failed to help.Doctors are immune to that sort of thing you know).
>
> What got my attention was when I was at the doctor,(m.d.) for the third time and my wife came along to have her fibro-myolgia treated. He gave her CELEXA.
>
> After the first two doses she told me it was working pretty good.
> However,after waking on the third morning,her toes had also began to move around.She had the exact same symptoms that I had after only two doses.
>
> Now you may be thinking, she's a bit nutty and she wants attention,or some such thing. But there were many
> subtle details that I had never told her, and that she described to me to a T.
> She had her last dose 2 weeks ago and is still experiencing the symptoms which are gradually getting worse.
>
> Then we found the anti-Prozac site which explained why we are still having the symptoms occur.My shrink and medical doctor said that we couldn't be experiencing these problems,but this web-site not only acknowleged that we could,but explained why. The symptoms that I have described have continued two years after getting off effexor.
>
> If any of you are plagued by simalar symptoms please write me and tell us that we're not alone!!
>
>
>
> Anyway,I'm going to
Posted by Hunter77 on September 10, 2001, at 11:13:00
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Rompy on September 9, 2001, at 18:13:48
I've followed the thread, and finally had to comment.
Effexor XR has worked for me although I hate the "no sex"
side effect. I tried Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Celexa before
this. I'm still depressed and the pdoc and I are still experimenting
with the dose (at 225 mg now), but this is the first med
that didn't have me angry at the whole world, ready to blow
up over anything. this web site has really made me aware how
different everyone's reaction is to the drugs - but for some
of us, it does work.PS - Anyone (male) had success with adding other drugs to overcome
the sexual side effects?
Posted by DGHIFI on September 10, 2001, at 18:49:21
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Just a request to everyone out there; When posting about Effexor, please be specific as to whether it is regular Effexor, or Effexor XR that you are posting about. They are two different meds and I'd like to keep them separated.
Regards,DGHIFI
Posted by dreamer on September 10, 2001, at 20:56:16
In reply to Public Service Request, posted by DGHIFI on September 10, 2001, at 18:49:21
They are two different meds and I'd like to keep them separated.
Or they will breed like bunnies .
Posted by MB on September 12, 2001, at 12:52:20
In reply to Re: Public Announcement, posted by dreamer on September 10, 2001, at 20:56:16
Hey, that would sure cut down on treatment costs!
> They are two different meds and I'd like to keep them separated.
>
> Or they will breed like bunnies .
Posted by belfast on September 21, 2001, at 23:56:16
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
symptom?
Posted by Sea on September 22, 2001, at 5:23:21
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by belfast on September 21, 2001, at 23:56:16
I had this problem when I started Effexor. While it is activating for many people, for me it was very sedating. I was able to solve the problem by taking it at night instead of in the morning.
Sea> > > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
> questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
> symptom?
Posted by Michele R.N. on September 22, 2001, at 12:45:37
In reply to Prozac may very well be the key, posted by Michele on May 6, 2001, at 13:44:25
I want to know If anyone's physician has recommended taking prozac while tapering off effexor xr? I need help!
Posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by belfast on September 21, 2001, at 23:56:16
> > > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
> questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
> symptom?JP-
Lots of success with Effexor after finding no relief with other meds. From the very beginning I had no side effects other than a slightly unpleasant reved up feeling. This went away after a month. I eventually increased from 75mgs to 300mgs with no activation of side effects. I know a couple of people who had trouble with somnolence after beginning Effexor. For one person an increased dossage was the answer, while for another the addition of Wellbutrin did the trick.
Posted by Kristi on September 22, 2001, at 20:09:30
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
Please don't take this the wrong way..... but good luck to you when trying to get off it. I know from experience.... and the archives... and people who have been off it for months and even years still having problems.
> > > > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
> > questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
> > symptom?
>
> JP-
>
> Lots of success with Effexor after finding no relief with other meds. From the very beginning I had no side effects other than a slightly unpleasant reved up feeling. This went away after a month. I eventually increased from 75mgs to 300mgs with no activation of side effects. I know a couple of people who had trouble with somnolence after beginning Effexor. For one person an increased dossage was the answer, while for another the addition of Wellbutrin did the trick.
Posted by sweet_slider on September 22, 2001, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
Hi guys and gals,
Well this was my first time at this post
I started taking Effexor XR about 6 weeks ago, first 37.5 for 3 weeks then 75 for 3 weeks and am now taking 75mg in the morning then 37.5 at night for 1 week and then up to 150mg(75 twice a day. I took Zoloft for 5 months and it helped initially with the anxiety and panic attacks but I reached a plateau after 5 months at 100mg. It did nothing for the depression so my doc(who is great!) switched me over to Effexor XR, I did notice some withdrawl symptoms from the switch but nothing major. I responded immediately to the Effexor XR but still had the depression, right now I'm at 112.5mg/day and still really low, but I start the 150/day soon which hopefully will help out with that. I'm also seeing a psychiatrist for the first time next week. I'm now a little scared about what's gonna happen when I'm better and need to stop taking it. I've read good and bad stories on this page. Thanx to all for your imput, I clearly need to discuss some things with my doctor next week!
I do notice I tune out in class which isn't cool, does anyone know of any other drug I can combine with the effexor XR to control that? I should also mention that I went from 10-15 panic attacks a day to none or rarely any, so to the person who said Effexor XR doesn't work for GAD, it apparently does for some people. I look forward to comments and suggestions :)
Posted by kid47 on September 24, 2001, at 11:52:27
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key, posted by Michele R.N. on September 22, 2001, at 12:45:37
Hi. After taking 300mg/day Fxr Xr for about a year, I tapered down to 37.5/day, added 20mg Prozac & stopped the fxr completely. I had virtually no disontinuation side fx. Check the archives here about FXR. Ther's tons of info. Good Luck
kid
> I want to know If anyone's physician has recommended taking prozac while tapering off effexor xr? I need help!
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » Michele R.N., posted by kid47 on September 24, 2001, at 11:52:27
> > I want to know If anyone's physician has recommended taking prozac while tapering off effexor xr? I need help!> Hi. After taking 300mg/day Fxr Xr for about a year, I tapered down to 37.5/day, added 20mg Prozac & stopped the fxr completely. I had virtually no disontinuation side fx. Check the archives here about FXR. Ther's tons of info. Good Luck
>
> kid
Hey Kid.How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
Thank you.
- Scott
Posted by Teri on September 25, 2001, at 13:11:43
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » kid47, posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
Hi. I was just on 75mg but it made me so sick after two months. The side effects were hell for me as were the withdrawals. I went to a psychiatrist finally (I was being treated by my internist) and he gave me 10mg of Celexa and Klonopin to help with the withdrawals. I was down to splitting a 37.5mg capsule for about two days when I saw him. He just told me to stop the Effexor XR at that point and do the Celexa and Klonopin and I hardly had any withdrawals after that. I've continued the Celexa, up to 20mg, and the Klonopin and am feeling so much better. I took the Effexor XR for my anxiety problems but the Effexor made my anxiety so much worse. It was aweful. Teri
Posted by Nehebkau on September 25, 2001, at 13:24:40
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Hunter77 on September 10, 2001, at 11:13:00
Hey Hunter,
Sounds like you've had the same experiences as I have. I am finally feeling fantastic and Have been on 225 of XR for 3 months. All the side-effects are gone and my life is finally getting back into shape.
The biggest problems for me have been the Sex problem and the caffine problem. If i have more than 1 medium roast cup of coffee per day I get very buzzed. I have to stay completely away from coke and pepsi for similar reasons. The whole sex issue was solved without medication and with a loving wife. You can have a return of sexual feelings, it just takes longer for your to get aroused and longer for you to orgasm. Spend the extra time with your partner in foreplay. If that doesn't work try using visual/movie aids or have your partner try to seduce you. I think you will find that you will respond to those stimuli. The thing is that once you find that you can respond, keep it up otherwise you can fall back into the 'No interest' mood. If you are still having problems, try to make use of the 'Morning Erections' that all men get (sort of an 'if i get an erection i should use it' frame of mind).
I hope this helps.> I've followed the thread, and finally had to comment.
> Effexor XR has worked for me although I hate the "no sex"
> side effect. I tried Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Celexa before
> this. I'm still depressed and the pdoc and I are still experimenting
> with the dose (at 225 mg now), but this is the first med
> that didn't have me angry at the whole world, ready to blow
> up over anything. this web site has really made me aware how
> different everyone's reaction is to the drugs - but for some
> of us, it does work.
>
> PS - Anyone (male) had success with adding other drugs to overcome
> the sexual side effects?
Posted by kid47 on September 25, 2001, at 17:37:06
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » kid47, posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
Hi Scott. I decreased my dosage by 75mg every two weeks till I was at 75mg/day. I was fully prepared to stay at a dosage longer than two weeks or even go back up if I felt bad but fortunately I never really did. After two weeks at 75mg. I then dropped to 37.5 mg/day. On the fifth day at this dose I began 20 mg Prozac. (Some say 10 mg is effective, but I just happened to have some 20mg left over from previous use) After 5 days I stopped the FXR XR & the Prozac. I should probably mention I was taking 800mgX4/day of Neurontin & Klonopin prn along with the FXR XR. I stopped the Nuerontin about a week after the FXR. I was med-free (except for occassional Klonopin) for 13 wks!! My pdoc approved of all this though it was basically my idea. I am now on Wellbutrin 150mgx2/day, 400mgx4/day Neurontin & Klonopin prn. The Wellb is about to put me through the roof. Sorry probably more info than you wanted. Hope this helps. Take care
kid
>
>
> Hey Kid.
>
> How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> - Scott
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