![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
This is kind of long, but please read, I need help. I'd like to see what others here think about what I'm about to do. I'm in my early 20s, and have had serious depression, social phobia, anxiety, and crippling fatigue since I was 12. I had symptoms of these conditions, as well as moderate OCD, since my earliest memories. See, my mom has manic depression, one of her sisters committed suicide, my dad's father was a severe alcoholic, and my fraternal twin has had most of the same problems I do, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Apparently, I have very bad mental health genes. My dad is very negative and critical also, and I was picked on in school. Recently I have had permanent damage done to my vision from Lasik surgery, which has pushed me further into depression. I have had almost no friends since the age of 12 because of my problems and moving a lot, and have been on antidepressant drugs since age 13. I've tried imipramine, zoloft, anafranil, effexor, serzone, trazadone, wellbutrin, celexa, remeron, and now desipramine, with only partial relief. I've tried adding thyroid hormone, stimulants, and some combinations thereof. I've done tons of therapy. Despite all of this, I still feel miserably depressed, I fantasize about death, and I have no friends or intimacy with anyone. I feel like an elderly woman, and I'm 23 years old. I've had depression for so long and it started so early, I don't even know who I am without depression. My social phobia, and the early and chronic isolation have made it difficult for me to have even the simplest social interactions. My doctor wants me to have ECT, which I am agreeing to. I guess what I'm afraid of is that it won't work well, the memory problems will be too much, and/or the positive effect won't last. If it doesn't last, I'll have to do maintenance, but I fear what that might do to my memory. Also, ECT is very expensive, but my health insurance covers 90% of it. What if I need maintenance ECT indefinitely? I may not always have good if any health insurance. The insurance I have now is very good, but I hate my job and want to leave it. Our health care system in this country really blows, hardworking people can't necessarily get what they need. Anyway, please share your thoughts, advice, insights, or anything you might like to say to me.
Posted by SalArmy4me on September 4, 2001, at 17:51:40
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
Give me your e-mail address, and I'll send you the best info on ECT from JAMA.
Posted by susan C on September 4, 2001, at 18:09:35
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
dear P,
Oh, boy, here is a cyber hug...and an observation, only, perhaps because it is a connection for, to and from me, unfortunately not an answer, but anyway. You say 'since 12 years old' and in your list of things there is no mention of female hormone evaluation, endrochinologist, gynocologist...I am on that road, actually a five lane freeway I think at times.
Just a thought. Be sure and get second opinions, before doing ect, as well.
Susan C.
> This is kind of long, but please read, I need help. I'd like to see what others here think about what I'm about to do. I'm in my early 20s, and have had serious depression, social phobia, anxiety, and crippling fatigue since I was 12. I had symptoms of these conditions, as well as moderate OCD, since my earliest memories. See, my mom has manic depression, one of her sisters committed suicide, my dad's father was a severe alcoholic, and my fraternal twin has had most of the same problems I do, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Apparently, I have very bad mental health genes. My dad is very negative and critical also, and I was picked on in school. Recently I have had permanent damage done to my vision from Lasik surgery, which has pushed me further into depression. I have had almost no friends since the age of 12 because of my problems and moving a lot, and have been on antidepressant drugs since age 13. I've tried imipramine, zoloft, anafranil, effexor, serzone, trazadone, wellbutrin, celexa, remeron, and now desipramine, with only partial relief. I've tried adding thyroid hormone, stimulants, and some combinations thereof. I've done tons of therapy. Despite all of this, I still feel miserably depressed, I fantasize about death, and I have no friends or intimacy with anyone. I feel like an elderly woman, and I'm 23 years old. I've had depression for so long and it started so early, I don't even know who I am without depression. My social phobia, and the early and chronic isolation have made it difficult for me to have even the simplest social interactions. My doctor wants me to have ECT, which I am agreeing to. I guess what I'm afraid of is that it won't work well, the memory problems will be too much, and/or the positive effect won't last. If it doesn't last, I'll have to do maintenance, but I fear what that might do to my memory. Also, ECT is very expensive, but my health insurance covers 90% of it. What if I need maintenance ECT indefinitely? I may not always have good if any health insurance. The insurance I have now is very good, but I hate my job and want to leave it. Our health care system in this country really blows, hardworking people can't necessarily get what they need. Anyway, please share your thoughts, advice, insights, or anything you might like to say to me.
Posted by Janelle on September 4, 2001, at 18:38:28
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
Hi,
Well, I have a friend who had a series of ECT's about a year ago and that was the ONLY thing that brought her out of her depression - she had tried like 40-50 meds; none worked. ECT was her last resort.
To address your concerns: the ECT did work well, although she does have memory problems but says they're minor (short-term memory) and she takes a med to help with that. The positive effect has lasted overall, but she has had a few maintenance ones since the series of them.
I don't know if she will need maintenance ECT indefinitely.
I hope you have consulted with a pdoc about going for ECT; I would think it should be done on a pdoc's advice, with him or her to monitor the results.
Good luck.
-Janelle
Posted by adamie on September 4, 2001, at 18:51:37
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
> This is kind of long, but please read, I need help. I'd like to see what others here think about what I'm about to do. I'm in my early 20s, and have had serious depression, social phobia, anxiety, and crippling fatigue since I was 12. I had symptoms of these conditions, as well as moderate OCD, since my earliest memories. See, my mom has manic depression, one of her sisters committed suicide, my dad's father was a severe alcoholic, and my fraternal twin has had most of the same problems I do, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Apparently, I have very bad mental health genes. My dad is very negative and critical also, and I was picked on in school. Recently I have had permanent damage done to my vision from Lasik surgery, which has pushed me further into depression. I have had almost no friends since the age of 12 because of my problems and moving a lot, and have been on antidepressant drugs since age 13. I've tried imipramine, zoloft, anafranil, effexor, serzone, trazadone, wellbutrin, celexa, remeron, and now desipramine, with only partial relief. I've tried adding thyroid hormone, stimulants, and some combinations thereof. I've done tons of therapy. Despite all of this, I still feel miserably depressed, I fantasize about death, and I have no friends or intimacy with anyone. I feel like an elderly woman, and I'm 23 years old. I've had depression for so long and it started so early, I don't even know who I am without depression. My social phobia, and the early and chronic isolation have made it difficult for me to have even the simplest social interactions. My doctor wants me to have ECT, which I am agreeing to. I guess what I'm afraid of is that it won't work well, the memory problems will be too much, and/or the positive effect won't last. If it doesn't last, I'll have to do maintenance, but I fear what that might do to my memory. Also, ECT is very expensive, but my health insurance covers 90% of it. What if I need maintenance ECT indefinitely? I may not always have good if any health insurance. The insurance I have now is very good, but I hate my job and want to leave it. Our health care system in this country really blows, hardworking people can't necessarily get what they need. Anyway, please share your thoughts, advice, insights, or anything you might like to say to me.
hi. I too have considered ECT and anyone who is severely depressed and feels he/she cant take it much longer should deffinetly consider it. memory loss which is usually temporary is a small price to pay to feel much much better even if it is just temporary. but maintenance with meds can keep one feeling better after the ECT. Depending on the severity, depression is one of the most horrific ilnesses/deceases/disorders possible. I may have only been dealing with it for 3 months but if it turns so horrible to the point where mind torture prevents me from doing even the simplest things then I would easily have ECT. But of course the doctors wont let me. Sometimes it has been that like. Such days where I cant even get out of bed. Overall I am getting better but the way I have been before I would gladly take ECT if I was allowed.
Before this life has been completely perfect. I have the most perfect fiance imaginable (for me). I was always happy. Life just completely amazing. Without depression anyone can feel such things again. To be able to enjoy anything you want is amazing, yet so many take it for granted. Good luck with the ECT. I say go for it. When depression is gone everything will be so much better it's like being in a whole new world. Sometimes with depression it is hard to see how much better your mood could be. The negativity is all natural in depression. So try not to think too much of ECT may effect your memory. It surely will but most of it and often all of it will go away. Being depressed and having memory loss would be quite bad to top things off. but that is a natural feeling you may have right now. like if this doesn't help I will feel extra horrible having this memory loss. but it has to help. at least 85% of the time. And with depression there isn't much to remember anyway. Some memories are very important. But when your life is restored you will have countless more memories. Because life will be great again. good luck. hope for the best
Posted by Phil on September 4, 2001, at 21:34:29
In reply to Re: About to get ECT.... » PhoenixGirl, posted by adamie on September 4, 2001, at 18:51:37
PhoenixGirl, I've gone thru tons of meds to find a combo that will keep me afloat. I'm doing okay.
My mother had ect and everything was really fine.
This was about 23 years ago, before I was diagnosed with depression. Not knowing much about ect scared me tremendously. But it did save her life.
I would do ect in a heartbeat if I knew I was in dire straights.
I would study a bit about whether it would be bilateral or unilateral, how long the DR. has done the procedure and how long he's worked with his team. Especially the anesthesiologist(sp).
Follow your gut.
If you search the web for ect stuff, there's a lot of trash out there. Ect isn't risk free and, I've heard, in rare cases people have lost quite a bit of their memory and weren't having much luck regaining it. My mom's was short term memory loss and within a few months, her memory was back to being better than mine. I never could remember shit. :-)Do what you gotta do,
Phil
Posted by Mair on September 4, 2001, at 22:13:02
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
> PhoenixGirl - I'm sorry things aren't going very well. Did you move to Atlanta? Is this where the job is that you hate? Did you find a pdoc at Emory? Why don't you bring us up to date.
I don't know anything about ECT. There is a book by Margaret Manning called "Undercurrents." She is a therapist who had to resort to ECT because she proved to be so treatment resistant. It really helped her.
Mair (formerly ksvt)
Posted by San on September 4, 2001, at 22:28:01
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
> This is kind of long, but please read, I need help. I'd like to see what others here think about what I'm about to do. I'm in my early 20s, and have had serious depression, social phobia, anxiety, and crippling fatigue since I was 12. I had symptoms of these conditions, as well as moderate OCD, since my earliest memories. See, my mom has manic depression, one of her sisters committed suicide, my dad's father was a severe alcoholic, and my fraternal twin has had most of the same problems I do, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Apparently, I have very bad mental health genes. My dad is very negative and critical also, and I was picked on in school. Recently I have had permanent damage done to my vision from Lasik surgery, which has pushed me further into depression. I have had almost no friends since the age of 12 because of my problems and moving a lot, and have been on antidepressant drugs since age 13. I've tried imipramine, zoloft, anafranil, effexor, serzone, trazadone, wellbutrin, celexa, remeron, and now desipramine, with only partial relief. I've tried adding thyroid hormone, stimulants, and some combinations thereof. I've done tons of therapy. Despite all of this, I still feel miserably depressed, I fantasize about death, and I have no friends or intimacy with anyone. I feel like an elderly woman, and I'm 23 years old. I've had depression for so long and it started so early, I don't even know who I am without depression. My social phobia, and the early and chronic isolation have made it difficult for me to have even the simplest social interactions. My doctor wants me to have ECT, which I am agreeing to. I guess what I'm afraid of is that it won't work well, the memory problems will be too much, and/or the positive effect won't last. If it doesn't last, I'll have to do maintenance, but I fear what that might do to my memory. Also, ECT is very expensive, but my health insurance covers 90% of it. What if I need maintenance ECT indefinitely? I may not always have good if any health insurance. The insurance I have now is very good, but I hate my job and want to leave it. Our health care system in this country really blows, hardworking people can't necessarily get what they need. Anyway, please share your thoughts, advice, insights, or anything you might like to say to me. >I was pretty much in the same boat as you about 6 years ago. I had run out of meds to try and the situation was looking bleak. ECT was suggested and was presented as a benign procedure that would cause "temporary" memory difficulties. I gave it a try and ended up with two series of treatments (16 total). The depression abated quickly, but returned within a couple of months. A maintenance treatment was also done between series which did not do anything. My memory, I feel, has been permanently damaged. Not only have I wiped out chunks of past memories, I have a terrible time trying to remember anything.I can read a book and understand it, but within a few hours, not be able to recall anything about it. I have to write everything down or else it's gone. While I can say ECT did help my depression, the effects were temporary, the maintenance treatment did nothing, and my memory/brain was damaged forever. The answer for me turned out to be taking one of the first meds that I had tried and raising the dosage very high (Elavil 200mg.) Since then, things have remained pretty much on an even keel with no serious/sustained bouts of depression. I don't think I would ever have ECT again. Hope you feel better soon-- God Bless---- San
Posted by SalArmy4me on September 4, 2001, at 22:36:02
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
Watch this first: http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,283445-412,00.shtml
Posted by jackflash2 on September 4, 2001, at 22:49:42
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
You might want to read the following:
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ect.htm
http://www.breggin.com/electroshock.html
Posted by adamie on September 4, 2001, at 23:03:14
In reply to Re: About to get ECT...., posted by jackflash2 on September 4, 2001, at 22:49:42
most of the people who hate ECT or find it barbaric simply dont know what it feels like to be severely depressed. Many people who crusade against it haven't even suffered with depression but instead had ECT done to them during old days for various other reasons. Others haven't even had ECT but critisize it for the over exagerated 'horror' stories on the net. Of course for anything other than mental suffering ECT is wrong and will get someone upset if they have it done to them. Many of these people are happy, live normal lives, they dont know what it feels like to be severely depressed, they could never so much as imagine. depression can trully be the most horrific decease possible. Sometimes I feel I wish they'd let me have it. No one besides those who have depression can know what it feels like. i wish people who dont suffer from severe deppresion would stop critisizing it. for some of us it can mean the difference between life and death. more precisely, death or happiness.
Posted by sar on September 5, 2001, at 0:42:54
In reply to Re: About to get ECT...., posted by adamie on September 4, 2001, at 23:03:14
hey phoenix girl,
oh i am feeling for you right now. you're brave to have been through so much...scientifically, i know next to nothing about ECT, but my grandmother had it and lived into her ripe mid-eighties, writing poetry as she always had. A friend of mine complained that the movie *Requiem for a Dream* portrayed ECT very biasedly (the woman who receieves it in that movie becomes a space cadet) because one of his best friends had gotten ECT for manic depression but retained his near-genius status--his depression wasn't wiped out, but it did help.
i don't know what to say, except that this is a good place to post and get opinions. Psycho-Social Babble is v. cool as well, do you want to come visit over there? it's a smaller group, warmer and less chaotic. (just me--i get all confused at plain psycho-babble.)
i'm in no position to offer you medical advice, but as another depresst 23 yr-old girl, i'm here for you if you need to talk.
best wishes,
sar
Posted by JohnL on September 5, 2001, at 4:39:23
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
Hi Phoenix Girl,
Personally I would not consider ECT until the following drugs had been tried first:
Prozac+Adrafinil
Prozac+Zyprexa
Prozac+Adrafinil+Zyprexa
Adrafinil
Zyprexa
Risperdal with Adrafinil and/or Prozac
Amisulpride
Amisulpride with any of the above
Mirapex with any of the aboveThe list might look too long and confusing, but it is really only 6 drugs. I have seen so many desperate cases suddenly turn wonderful with any of the above. If you haven't tried the above drugs or combinations, I think you should. Just my opinion. As most people are aware, my favorite of all for really tough cases is Prozexanil. (my home made term for Prozac+Zyprexa+Adrafinil). But quite honestly, any and all of the above drugs, especially in combinations, have worked wonderfully in some very tough cases, and have usually done so very quickly, with benefits being noticed as early as day 2 to day 7. These are purely anecdotal observations, but there are enough of them to make one stand up and take notice.
John> This is kind of long, but please read, I need help. I'd like to see what others here think about what I'm about to do. I'm in my early 20s, and have had serious depression, social phobia, anxiety, and crippling fatigue since I was 12. I had symptoms of these conditions, as well as moderate OCD, since my earliest memories. See, my mom has manic depression, one of her sisters committed suicide, my dad's father was a severe alcoholic, and my fraternal twin has had most of the same problems I do, but to a somewhat lesser degree. Apparently, I have very bad mental health genes. My dad is very negative and critical also, and I was picked on in school. Recently I have had permanent damage done to my vision from Lasik surgery, which has pushed me further into depression. I have had almost no friends since the age of 12 because of my problems and moving a lot, and have been on antidepressant drugs since age 13. I've tried imipramine, zoloft, anafranil, effexor, serzone, trazadone, wellbutrin, celexa, remeron, and now desipramine, with only partial relief. I've tried adding thyroid hormone, stimulants, and some combinations thereof. I've done tons of therapy. Despite all of this, I still feel miserably depressed, I fantasize about death, and I have no friends or intimacy with anyone. I feel like an elderly woman, and I'm 23 years old. I've had depression for so long and it started so early, I don't even know who I am without depression. My social phobia, and the early and chronic isolation have made it difficult for me to have even the simplest social interactions. My doctor wants me to have ECT, which I am agreeing to. I guess what I'm afraid of is that it won't work well, the memory problems will be too much, and/or the positive effect won't last. If it doesn't last, I'll have to do maintenance, but I fear what that might do to my memory. Also, ECT is very expensive, but my health insurance covers 90% of it. What if I need maintenance ECT indefinitely? I may not always have good if any health insurance. The insurance I have now is very good, but I hate my job and want to leave it. Our health care system in this country really blows, hardworking people can't necessarily get what they need. Anyway, please share your thoughts, advice, insights, or anything you might like to say to me.
Posted by Phil on September 5, 2001, at 6:55:18
In reply to Re: About to get ECT...., posted by JohnL on September 5, 2001, at 4:39:23
http://www.electroshock.org/archives/max_fink.htm
Max Fink will have a lot of info on ECT.
Good Luck
Posted by adamie on September 5, 2001, at 9:42:58
In reply to Re:More accurate view of ECT..PhoenixGirl, posted by Phil on September 5, 2001, at 6:55:18
If one is able to live in order to keep trying medications then that is fine. But the mind torture is too severe and too much to bare. I cant even do all the little things i did before. Washing dishes is hard. I just want the time to pass. I am sick of this. If I were better surely I would want to keep trying meds but I am not. I am not well enough to even complete the simplest assignment in class. all i do each day is wait til i get better. i cant do much. i am sick of this. i could live with just not being able to enjoy things, but the mind torture is too much at times. it shouldn't be painful to exist. I thought about it as much as I can and I want ECT 100%. I dont care if it could cause sometimes long lasting memory loss. I have no memory with this damned depression. I have known my fiance for 9 months and due to the depression I cant recall anything. I dont know what we talked about for those 9 months. I am not able to even imagine her most of the time. If anything ECT would greatly restore my mental abilities. my IQ would sky rocket.Yesterday I had to go to the doctor to get a new med. I forgot my health card. Luckily i was excepted anyway. Along the way though I got off the bus at the wrong stop. But before that I got off a bus that was going where I wanted, i thought it was going somewhere else. then after I got lost somewhere and had to call my mom. then after I finally made it. then i dont remember what happened. I later went to the pharmacy to get my prozac but I forgot the prescription at home. And today I forgot to bring enough money to buy allergy medications. I am tired of living like this. EVery minute shouldn't be painful. boredom is fine, but the mind torture is too much. I wish the damned doctors would let me get ECT. Some cases are too severe to keep trying damned meds. 1 month to see if each one works. And then you try another, another, so many choices but so what. All those choices cost time and suffering. I dont want to have to keep waiting just to see if some med might work. 3 made me worse. 1 i dunno what it did. one made me very suicidal. ECT should be a first line treatment for severely depressed people. not the last damn option. i just hope i'll survive all this. too many yucky thoughts of possible suicide.
I am not a religous person. I dont know what comes after when i would die. my fiance is perfect but i cant feel anything. i wish everything was better. i dont want to die but i feel so sick at times. crying often and just feel horrible. maybe i will possibly be able to get ect soon. i hope the doctors will allow it.
Posted by Adam on September 5, 2001, at 11:13:59
In reply to About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 4, 2001, at 17:29:45
Hi, PhoenixGirl,
After a long clinical depression, which probably started in my early teens, but was diagnosed as such only as I approached 20, a 10+ year battle that culminated in my hospitalization, I had ECT. The results were dramatic, and the onset of relief was rapidly achieved. It's one of the best things I ever did.
It does cause memory problems. For me, these were pretty bad. After 8 sessions of bilateral (seizures induced in both hemispheres of the brain) ECT, I spend a week feeling like I was on another planet, and maybe two weeks after that being mildly disoriented and having minor memory lapses. My memory of some events during the course of treatment is completely erased. Since I gather from my writing much of that time was spend bored and unhappy in the psych ward, I'm not missing much, I suppose. The period following the course of treatment just felt surreal. I can't describe it any other way. I just felt my conscious experience of the world around me was altered somehow, but I lack the words to describe it all. It wasn't bad, really, I just felt like a stranger in a strage land, you know? I wonder if part of this was just the existential crisis of going from mind-numbingly, suicidally depressed and anxious to really pretty OK in the span of a week.
I noticed from the list of meds. you gave, that you have never tried an MAOI. I know MAOIs are kind of scary, but they really can be wonderful antidepressants when they work, and sometimes the side-effects are less severe than what you might have experienced on a good number of the other drugs you've taken. From what I understand, before SSRIs became all the rage, the folks at Mass. General (where I was hospitalized, Blake building, 11th floor, or Blake 11 as it is affectionately known) used to have a favorite treatment algorithm for those who landed in their ward: Intense course of ECT followed by Parnate maintanance. I guess this used to be a remarkably reliable strategy. As SSRIs have a better safety profile, few use Parnate or other MAOIs anymore.
I have even read in some places that good response to ECT is not a bad predictor of good response to an MAOI. I'm not a doctor, but I think undergoing a intense course of ECT, as many treatments as is necessary to lift you from depression, followed by an MAOI to maintain antidepressant response is a wise course to take. If the MAOI doesn't work, or doesn't appeal to you, and the ECT was beneficial, you might rather opt to do maintainance ECT, which is commonly monthly, unilateral-seizure treatments.
ECT has been shown to be quite safe. It works better for more people than any other antidepressant. It does cause memory problems, but most who have been treated say the same thing: It's transient, and managable. Nearly all the research on the subject supports this. If you really want to try, I would say you've made a good decision, and don't be afraid.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 5, 2001, at 16:04:21
In reply to Re: About to get ECT.... » PhoenixGirl, posted by Adam on September 5, 2001, at 11:13:59
Hello, thanks everyone for all of the thoughtful feedback. It makes me feel less alone. I have an appointment for Monday with Emory hospital, where they will evaluate me. My pdoc doesn't do ect himself, so he referred me to a doctor he recommends at Emory. If they decide that I'm a good candidate for ECT, and I'm sure they will, I'll get an MRI, EKG, and something else I think. I don't know when the treatments would start after that, but I have previously made plans to visit my only college friend in another state, in the first week of October. I already have the plane ticket and everything, so I may have to wait to start the ECT after that trip. Who knows if I will enjoy the trip even a little because I'm so depressed, but the ticket was expensive and I told her I'd go, so I feel obligated.
A problem that may come up when I get ECT is that they don't want me to drive for two weeks. Since I don't know anyone in Atlanta who could help me get to and from Emory, and get my groceries or whatever, I don't know what to do. I live close to Emory, which is good. But, I'm afraid I'll have to ask my mom to come here for the two weeks to help me. My dad simply cannot ever know about this, so I'd have to ask my mom. I live in a one-room section of a house, and it's really small. My mom is overweight, unhealthy, manic depressive. My dad would want to know why she is here in Atlanta with me. I may have to take a taxi to and from the hospital, and maybe ask a member of my therapy group to take me to the grocery store one day out of the week. I assume I'd have to take leave from work during those two weeks, which would suck because I'd have to take every bit of sick and vacation leave I have, and I'd be all alone with little human contact.
Anyway, ksvt asked for an update. I moved to Atlanta early this year, I have not made any friends, and I work at a dull, frustrating job that I do really hate. It is providing me with the money and health insurance to get ECT, though. I ought to see my misery in this job as an investment in my future. It's tough, though, I don't fit in there and there's few young people. My hope is to start successfully treating my depression, get my debts paid off, save some money, and then get a more exciting job with people closer to my age. There's got to be something like that for me in Atlanta. But my first priority right now is to treat the depression. I'll keep you all updated.
Hi, PhoenixGirl,
>
> After a long clinical depression, which probably started in my early teens, but was diagnosed as such only as I approached 20, a 10+ year battle that culminated in my hospitalization, I had ECT. The results were dramatic, and the onset of relief was rapidly achieved. It's one of the best things I ever did.
>
> It does cause memory problems. For me, these were pretty bad. After 8 sessions of bilateral (seizures induced in both hemispheres of the brain) ECT, I spend a week feeling like I was on another planet, and maybe two weeks after that being mildly disoriented and having minor memory lapses. My memory of some events during the course of treatment is completely erased. Since I gather from my writing much of that time was spend bored and unhappy in the psych ward, I'm not missing much, I suppose. The period following the course of treatment just felt surreal. I can't describe it any other way. I just felt my conscious experience of the world around me was altered somehow, but I lack the words to describe it all. It wasn't bad, really, I just felt like a stranger in a strage land, you know? I wonder if part of this was just the existential crisis of going from mind-numbingly, suicidally depressed and anxious to really pretty OK in the span of a week.
>
> I noticed from the list of meds. you gave, that you have never tried an MAOI. I know MAOIs are kind of scary, but they really can be wonderful antidepressants when they work, and sometimes the side-effects are less severe than what you might have experienced on a good number of the other drugs you've taken. From what I understand, before SSRIs became all the rage, the folks at Mass. General (where I was hospitalized, Blake building, 11th floor, or Blake 11 as it is affectionately known) used to have a favorite treatment algorithm for those who landed in their ward: Intense course of ECT followed by Parnate maintanance. I guess this used to be a remarkably reliable strategy. As SSRIs have a better safety profile, few use Parnate or other MAOIs anymore.
>
> I have even read in some places that good response to ECT is not a bad predictor of good response to an MAOI. I'm not a doctor, but I think undergoing a intense course of ECT, as many treatments as is necessary to lift you from depression, followed by an MAOI to maintain antidepressant response is a wise course to take. If the MAOI doesn't work, or doesn't appeal to you, and the ECT was beneficial, you might rather opt to do maintainance ECT, which is commonly monthly, unilateral-seizure treatments.
>
> ECT has been shown to be quite safe. It works better for more people than any other antidepressant. It does cause memory problems, but most who have been treated say the same thing: It's transient, and managable. Nearly all the research on the subject supports this. If you really want to try, I would say you've made a good decision, and don't be afraid.
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 5, 2001, at 16:06:20
In reply to Re: About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 5, 2001, at 16:04:21
Hi sar, my email address is thephoenixgirl@hotmail.com. I'd like to email with you.
Posted by Adam on September 5, 2001, at 17:29:12
In reply to Re: About to get ECT...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 5, 2001, at 16:04:21
Hey, PhoenixGirl,
If someone from your therapy group can help you, that sounds like a good solution. I would gladly offer you such assistance, so I think someone from your group (hopefully someone you like and trust) would be more than willing to help you get the essential errands done. It seems to me the logistical and possibly interpersonal issues with getting your parents involved may be a show-stopper. Go see your friend from college, and then get started with treatment. Use your resources at home.
Just as a final suggestion/possible option: Could you not do the ECT as an inpatient? It seems to me that would solve a lot of the travel issues. Take a cab to the hospital, stay in the hospital, take a cab home. You wouldn't be alone, and you really wouldn't have any chores or errands to worry about. You're fed, the bed gets changed, you can talk to nurses or whatever, maybe go to groups. I was in a psych ward, like I said, which has its pluses and minuses (ever see a schizophernic guy have a tantrum and get put in restraints?)...But, despite some rather unusual conversations at meals (which don't need to be a social event if you don't want them to, I would think), I did meet a few nice, reasonably lucid people, a couple of whom I kept in touch with for a while after leaving the hospital. We kept each other entertained while there, anyway. Shock therapy jokes (it seemed like half the people were getting ECT) can be relatively funny when everyone else is going through the same thing. I remember one time, this woman named Mary-Anne, during a conversation, interupted suddenly and said something like "hey, I'm sorry, but who the f**k are you? How did you get in here?...Joking, joking!" Maybe you had to be there. Anyway, doing a full course of ECT for the first time _outpatient_? I'd rather be an inpatient, myself.
Posted by Phil on September 5, 2001, at 17:47:47
In reply to Re: About to get ECT.... » PhoenixGirl, posted by Adam on September 5, 2001, at 17:29:12
Posted by Sunnely on September 5, 2001, at 21:31:24
In reply to Re:More accurate view of ECT..PhoenixGirl, posted by Phil on September 5, 2001, at 6:55:18
Posted by PhoenixGirl on September 6, 2001, at 15:36:52
In reply to Re:More accurate view of ECT..PhoenixGirl - ditto! (nm), posted by Sunnely on September 5, 2001, at 21:31:24
I think that staying in the hospital would be a lot more expensive than doing the treatments outpatient, which is already very expensive. Under my insurance plan, I pay 10% of the costs of the procedure. I will be sent three bills -- one from the doctor, one from the anesthesiologist, and one from the hospital for using their facilities. That last bill will probably be much bigger if I'm inpatient as opposed to outpatient. The total cost per treatment, before insurance, as an outpatient is about $1100. My insurance company would probably negotiate that amount down some, and I'd pay 10% of that negotiated cost. I don't know how many treatments I'll need, so I really don't know how much I'll be spending on this. I have about $1200 to spend right now, and anything above that I'd have to pay off later. *sigh* This is such crap, money isn't supposed to buy happiness! I think I'll be able to afford this, but it'll be hard. I'm only 23 and I'm in my first job. So anyway, inpatient would be better but I doubt I could afford it.
Posted by sar on September 6, 2001, at 16:21:21
In reply to I'd prefer inpatient, but the cost...., posted by PhoenixGirl on September 6, 2001, at 15:36:52
...i've been twice hospitalised on an emergency basis. the hospitals and EMS have sent me bills that equal about $10,000. they know from history that pych patients can't get their shit enough together to afford this, and my psych-ward comrades told me the bills would probably be forgotten (emergency basis=emergency, they can't turn you down, and if you don't have the money, they can't squeeze it out of you). the american health-care system sucks, it's very expensive, esp for ppl who can't afford it. how the hell is a suicidal depressive supposed to be able to foot a hospital bill of nearly $1000/day? shiiiit...
anyway, i don't have a "real" job, i've a low-paying retail job, and the bills sit on the front table in the hallway. i don't think they'll be chasing me down. from what if read and experienced, there are many many ways to get psychiatric care at a reduced rate or for free. they don't want us psychos runnin 'round! :) anyway, i hope you'll do lots of research...i know that my meds are more important than my tofu + potatoes, they're the only reason i wake up, and if ECT is what you need i'm sure you can find a way...
'cos they must know that someone who needs ECT prally isn't some successful thousand-dollar-a-day Trumpette...
there are many venues. use the internet, the phonebook, all of your investigation skillz. and i would imagine that the hospital allows some sort of payment plan.
thinking of you,
sar
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