![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jojo on July 27, 2001, at 10:47:34
Elizabeth,
You said the antidepressant effects continue for about one hour after stopping
buprenorphine, joking, I assume.
Can you give me some estimate of how long it actually continues? 12 hours? 1 or 2
days?
I ask because in the 3 weeks that I've stopped Celexa and started taking
buprenorphine, I have not crashed, but am not aware of any immediate effect of the
Buprenex. It might as well be water as an active drug, as far as immediate effect.
My coordination, however, is slightly effected since starting the Buprenex (like I stub
my toe, or trip more often. From your experience, does skipping a day result in any
depressive symptoms?
jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on July 27, 2001, at 21:06:36
In reply to Buprenorphine Question for Elizabeth, posted by jojo on July 27, 2001, at 10:47:34
> You said the antidepressant effects continue for about one hour after stopping
> buprenorphine, joking, I assume.I don't recall saying anything of the sort. The antidepressant effects *kick in* about an hour after *taking* it (by the intranasal route, anyway -- how are you using it?).
> I ask because in the 3 weeks that I've stopped Celexa and started taking
> buprenorphine, I have not crashed, but am not aware of any immediate effect of the
> Buprenex. It might as well be water as an active drug, as far as immediate effect.It can't be expected to work for everyone. What dose are you taking?
> My coordination, however, is slightly effected since starting the Buprenex (like I stub
> my toe, or trip more often.> From your experience, does skipping a day result in any
> depressive symptoms?Yes.
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on July 27, 2001, at 22:52:06
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on July 27, 2001, at 21:06:36
> > You said the antidepressant effects continue for about one hour after stopping
> > buprenorphine, joking, I assume.
>
> I don't recall saying anything of the sort. The antidepressant effects *kick in* about an hour after *taking* it (by the intranasal route, anyway -- how are you using it?).
>
> > I ask because in the 3 weeks that I've stopped Celexa and started taking
> > buprenorphine, I have not crashed, but am not aware of any immediate effect of the
> > Buprenex. It might as well be water as an active drug, as far as immediate effect.
>
> It can't be expected to work for everyone. What
dose are you taking? I'm taking 2-3 1 ml ampules
intranasally per day.
>
> > My coordination, however, is slightly effected since starting the Buprenex (like I stub
> > my toe, or trip more often.
>
>
>
> > From your experience, does skipping a day result in any
> > depressive symptoms?
>
> Yes.
>
> -elizabeth
I'm not saying it didn't work. Perhaps it's working as well
as Celexa, which was pretty good, but I don't yet know of the sexual
effects. This has a practical bearing on whether
I should try to maintain 2-3
ampoules per day, or, if I feel no acute
depression, can I decrease the
dose, and then quickly recover if I should feel
that I'm about to crash. I'm not asking for a
definitive answer from you. I'm trying to make
a distinction between an "antidepressant" and an
"euphoriant", if that distinction has any meaning.
Thanks.
jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on July 29, 2001, at 15:11:32
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question, posted by jojo on July 27, 2001, at 22:52:06
It's not clear what's going on there. Can you describe exactly how you administer it? Using it intranasally is a bit tricky (although much more reliable than sublingual/buccal administration).
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on July 29, 2001, at 22:26:39
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on July 29, 2001, at 15:11:32
> It's not clear what's going on there. Can you describe exactly how you administer it? Using it intranasally is a bit tricky (although much more reliable than sublingual/buccal administration).
>
> -elizabeth
I'm drawing 1.0 ml. into a 3.0 ml syringe, and dripping this into my nostrils, usually 10
drops
(about 0.5 ml. every 2-3 hours). Today I
calibrated an Afrin metered sprayer. It takes
7 to 8 sprays to make up 1 ml.
The first few days I felt somewhat "buzzed", but since then am not aware of any
sensation. If there are no adverse sexual effects, and I continue to feel as good, this
may be the ideal antidepressant for me.jojo
Posted by jojo on July 29, 2001, at 22:33:19
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on July 29, 2001, at 15:11:32
> It's not clear what's going on there. Can you describe exactly how you administer it? Using it intranasally is a bit tricky (although much more reliable than sublingual/buccal administration).
>
> -elizabethBTW, about 20 years ago a lab test indicated that I was 20 % deficient (below
"normal" in Beta Endorphin.jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on July 30, 2001, at 16:41:15
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question, posted by jojo on July 29, 2001, at 22:26:39
> I'm drawing 1.0 ml. into a 3.0 ml syringe, and dripping this into my nostrils, usually 10
> drops
> (about 0.5 ml. every 2-3 hours).The way I was instructed to do it was to lie down and tilt my head back (i.e., hyperextend it). I've tried doing it sitting up, and it doesn't seem to work very well. Ideally you should only need to take it every 4-6 hours.
> The first few days I felt somewhat "buzzed", but since then am not aware of any
> sensation. If there are no adverse sexual effects, and I continue to feel as good, this
> may be the ideal antidepressant for me.I felt a little dizzy and lightheaded the first couple of times I took it, too.
So, may I ask how you came to have your beta-endorphin levels tested??? :-)
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on July 31, 2001, at 1:08:09
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on July 30, 2001, at 16:41:15
> > I'm drawing 1.0 ml. into a 3.0 ml syringe, and dripping this into my nostrils, usually 10
> > drops
> > (about 0.5 ml. every 2-3 hours).
>
> The way I was instructed to do it was to lie down and tilt my head back (i.e., hyperextend it). I've tried doing it sitting up, and it doesn't seem to work very well. Ideally you should only need to take it every 4-6 hours.
>
> > The first few days I felt somewhat "buzzed", but since then am not aware of any
> > sensation. If there are no adverse sexual effects, and I continue to feel as good, this
> > may be the ideal antidepressant for me.
>
> I felt a little dizzy and lightheaded the first couple of times I took it, too.
>
> So, may I ask how you came to have your beta-endorphin levels tested??? :-)
>
> -elizabethSorry, I can't pass this one up.
"The way I was instructed to do it was to lie down and tilt my head back (i.e.,
hyperextend it). I've tried doing it sitting up, and it doesn't seem to work very
well. Ideally you should only need to take it every 4-6 hours."I've always had trouble taking nose DROPS sitting up, especially using a syringe and
needle.An Afrin pump dispenser provides 1 ml in 7-8 sprays. Besides, it looks a lot more
innocuous!Re: Beta Endorphin test. My first success in psychopharmacology, showing there
was some reasonable hope of recovery after possibly 9 years of severe depression,
while being treated by 3 Psychoanalysts in succession. The first one (5 years, 4-7
times per week), believed Freud, and carefully quoted him to me, who said
'depression is often anger turned inward'. May sometimes be true, but I don't know if
this is the major factor. Anyway, suicide seemed the most realistic solution, when I
read an article in (possibly)
the American Journal of Psychiatry, dealing with some 'borderline personality
cohorts, who had elevated levels of Beta Endorphin, and responded positively to
L-Dopa. The author's explanation had to do with chronic stimulation of receptors,
which doesn't seem to be the case, but some of their symptoms (anergia, anhedonia
and maybe a few more) reminded me of myself, so I called my old shrink, sent her a
copy of the article, and she was not too threatened by this to give me a prescription
of L-Dopa, and a lab test for Beta Endorphin. The Endorphin came in low (it's still not
clear if that is significant, or what meaning it had), but the L-Dopa worked nicely (for
me - to me it looked like up!) for 3 months, at rather low doses, until I awoke one
morning the lowest I've ever felt...but that's a long story. Anyway, I knew that
psychopharmacology could work, which is why, I suppose, I am hear to write this
today.BTW, this raises some interesting questions about patient selection, and results from
"spontaneous remission' and "placebo effect".
With outpatients chosen "at random", it is said that 1/3 get better "spontaneously, 1/3
respond to placebo, and 1/3 respond to medication. If, in a particular situation it
seems proper to add the results from the placebo group to that of the spontaneous
group, than only 1/3 show an actual response to the AD being tested, which is about
the same results achieved with L-Dopa, which, I believe was 40%. Is it me or others
who may be missing something here. Depends on the patient selection, of course.
No Psychiatrist to whom I have mentioned this seemed even slightly intrigued.jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on July 31, 2001, at 18:38:32
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » Elizabeth, posted by jojo on July 31, 2001, at 1:08:09
> I've always had trouble taking nose DROPS sitting up, especially using a syringe and
> needle.Uhh, removing the needle is a crucial step! So, what position do you do it in?
> An Afrin pump dispenser provides 1 ml in 7-8 sprays. Besides, it looks a lot more
> innocuous!That's true. I'd be concerned about inconsistent doses -- buprenorphine is so potent and so concentrated that a variance of 0.1 cc can make all the difference.
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on July 31, 2001, at 21:21:44
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question, posted by Elizabeth on July 31, 2001, at 18:38:32
> > I've always had trouble taking nose DROPS sitting up, especially using a syringe and
> > needle.
>
> Uhh, removing the needle is a crucial step! So, what position do you do it in?
>
> > An Afrin pump dispenser provides 1 ml in 7-8 sprays. Besides, it looks a lot more
> > innocuous!
>
> That's true. I'd be concerned about inconsistent doses -- buprenorphine is so potent and so concentrated that a variance of 0.1 cc can make all the difference.
>0.1 cc out of 1.0 is still only 10%, and since I don't feel its effects or affects
(must be that injection of Xylocaine I take beforehand ; >) ... ). I'm sitting up, of
course. How else does one use a "spray" bottle, you silly goose!This discussion revolves around the philosophy of "Euphoriant", which we'll define as
a drug that increases ones physical energy and cathexis, a useful, old psychoanalytic
term referring to the amount of "mental energy", or connectedness, that one feels
towards something, and whose drug response is dose related, and occurs in temporal
juxtaposition with the taking of the drug, and another type of drug, which I choose to
call an antidepressant, which will raise one's energy level and cathexis to a level
generally somewhat less than that of the Psychiatrist's, but to about the level that
the patient feels he is entitleted to , or "remembers" ; >) having enjoyed. [It ain't like
the good old days, but then again, it never was].If I'm just getting high on the buprenorphine, it's not much of a high, virtually
unnoticeable, and it won't matter much if I take 0.8 or 1.0 or any, for that matter.
Unless I just haven't crashed yet (I shudder at the thought), it appears to be a very
effective "antidepressant", and after one month, the only "side effects" seem to be a
little constipation during the first few days.As this is REALLY off label, and there have only been a few publications, how do we
know that 12 mg. per day is the appropriate dose. Your impression is that one feels
the effect in an hour or so. I can always take another hit.jojo
> -elizabeth
Posted by Elizabeth on August 1, 2001, at 14:14:06
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » Elizabeth, posted by jojo on July 31, 2001, at 21:21:44
> 0.1 cc out of 1.0 is still only 10%, and since I don't feel its effects or affects
> (must be that injection of Xylocaine I take beforehand ; >) ... ). I'm sitting up, of
> course. How else does one use a "spray" bottle, you silly goose!Well, that might be why it's not working; try lying down with your neck hyperextended, and stay in that position for a couple of minutes after taking the buprenorphine. Afrin is a locally-acting drug; buprenorpine is not.
(BTW: I'll cop to silly, but I'm no goose.)
> Unless I just haven't crashed yet (I shudder at the thought), it appears to be a very
> effective "antidepressant", and after one month, the only "side effects" seem to be a
> little constipation during the first few days.That makes me think even more that it's not getting absorbed.
> As this is REALLY off label, and there have only been a few publications, how do we
> know that 12 mg. per day is the appropriate dose. Your impression is that one feels
> the effect in an hour or so. I can always take another hit.12 mg? That's an awful lot -- like, 40 mL, a volume that is ill-suited for intranasal (or IM) administration, even if you're taking it in many divided doses. Are you really taking it every 2 hours? Do you sleep???
BTW, it might work faster (than 1 hour after each dose, that is) if you reach steady state. I probably don't have much of a steady-state concentration because I can't take it at bedtime (too activating).
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on August 2, 2001, at 13:42:25
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on August 1, 2001, at 14:14:06
> > 0.1 cc out of 1.0 is still only 10%, and since I don't feel its effects or affects
> > (must be that injection of Xylocaine I take beforehand ; >) ... ). I'm sitting up, of
> > course. How else does one use a "spray" bottle, you silly goose!
>
> Well, that might be why it's not working; try lying down with your neck hyperextended, and stay in that position for a couple of minutes after taking the buprenorphine. Afrin is a locally-acting drug; buprenorpine is not.
>
> (BTW: I'll cop to silly, but I'm no goose.)
>
> > Unless I just haven't crashed yet (I shudder at the thought), it appears to be a very
> > effective "antidepressant", and after one month, the only "side effects" seem to be a
> > little constipation during the first few days.
>
> That makes me think even more that it's not getting absorbed.
>
> > As this is REALLY off label, and there have only been a few publications, how do we
> > know that 12 mg. per day is the appropriate dose. Your impression is that one feels
> > the effect in an hour or so. I can always take another hit.
>
> 12 mg? That's an awful lot -- like, 40 mL, a volume that is ill-suited for intranasal (or IM) administration, even if you're taking it in many divided doses. Are you really taking it every 2 hours? Do you sleep???
>
> BTW, it might work faster (than 1 hour after each dose, that is) if you reach steady state. I probably don't have much of a steady-state concentration because I can't take it at bedtime (too activating).
>
> -elizabethI'm sorry. Of course it's 1.2 mg., not 12 mg.
"Well, that might be why it's not working; try lying down with
your neck hyperextended, and stay in that position for a couple
of minutes after taking the buprenorphine. Afrin is a
locally-acting drug; buprenorpine is not."Of course, when I used the drops from the syringe (after removing the needle) I lay
down with my neck hyperextended, and of course it was an empty
Afrin metered sprayer before I washed it and added the buprenorphine.
I was following your suggestion to use a metered sprayer. Even though Afrin works
locally and buprenorphine does not, both are absorbed via the mucus membrane.
Why do you insist that it's not working? Because I'm not aware of any affects
or effects other than the early constipation? I think that indicates that it IS working.
Actually, I think it's working very well. An antidepressant that prevents or induces
recovery from depression without one feeling any ill or "side effects" seems to be the ideal drug.jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 0:01:23
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » Elizabeth, posted by jojo on August 2, 2001, at 13:42:25
> I'm sorry. Of course it's 1.2 mg., not 12 mg.
Ahh!
> Of course, when I used the drops from the syringe (after removing the needle) I lay
> down with my neck hyperextended, and of course it was an empty
> Afrin metered sprayer before I washed it and added the buprenorphine.Right; I'm just making the point that Afrin acts locally, so you don't have to worry about trying to get it into your system. I don't think that buprenorphine is actually absorbed primarily through the mucous membrane; my understanding is that there's a bundle of blood vessels somewhere back there and buprenorphine enters the bloodstream through that.
Did buprenorphine work when you took it using a syringe (sans needle, I hope)?
> Why do you insist that it's not working? Because I'm not aware of any affects
> or effects other than the early constipation?Yes, actually. My guess is that it's not being absorbed very well.
> I think that indicates that it IS working.
Uhh...I'm not following your reasoning here.
> Actually, I think it's working very well. An antidepressant that prevents or induces
> recovery from depression without one feeling any ill or "side effects" seems to be the ideal drug.It's not clear to me that the buprenorphine is what's keeping you from becoming depressed. My understanding is that you started it shortly after discontinuing the Celexa. Not everybody will necessarily become depressed or "crash" shortly after discontinuing an AD; it depends on the severity and chronicity of the depression (and just general individual differences). For all I know, you might be feeling fine if you were not taking the buprenorphine. The pattern you described just doesn't sound typical compared to other people who've taken and responded to buprenorphine. I'd expect it to cause some degree of mood elevation in nondepressed people, not just in depressed people or addicts. If you didn't "crash" after stopping the Celexa, I'm assuming you weren't depressed when you started the buprenorphine; but I'd still expect some very noticeable effects.
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on August 3, 2001, at 2:28:31
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 0:01:23
> > I'm sorry. Of course it's 1.2 mg., not 12 mg.
>
> Ahh!
>
> > Of course, when I used the drops from the syringe (after removing the needle) I lay
> > down with my neck hyperextended, and of course it was an empty
> > Afrin metered sprayer before I washed it and added the buprenorphine.
>
> Right; I'm just making the point that Afrin acts locally, so you don't have to worry about trying to get it into your system. I don't think that buprenorphine is actually absorbed primarily through the mucous membrane; my understanding is that there's a bundle of blood vessels somewhere back there and buprenorphine enters the bloodstream through that.
>
> Did buprenorphine work when you took it using a syringe (sans needle, I hope)?
>
> > Why do you insist that it's not working? Because I'm not aware of any affects
> > or effects other than the early constipation?
>
> Yes, actually. My guess is that it's not being absorbed very well.
>
> > I think that indicates that it IS working.
>
> Uhh...I'm not following your reasoning here.
>
> > Actually, I think it's working very well. An antidepressant that prevents or induces
> > recovery from depression without one feeling any ill or "side effects" seems to be the ideal drug.
>
> It's not clear to me that the buprenorphine is what's keeping you from becoming depressed. My understanding is that you started it shortly after discontinuing the Celexa. Not everybody will necessarily become depressed or "crash" shortly after discontinuing an AD; it depends on the severity and chronicity of the depression (and just general individual differences). For all I know, you might be feeling fine if you were not taking the buprenorphine. The pattern you described just doesn't sound typical compared to other people who've taken and responded to buprenorphine. I'd expect it to cause some degree of mood elevation in nondepressed people, not just in depressed people or addicts. If you didn't "crash" after stopping the Celexa, I'm assuming you weren't depressed when you started the buprenorphine; but I'd still expect some very noticeable effects.
>
> -elizabethYou're right, I wasn't highly depressed when I was on the Celexa. I switched to buprenorphine in the hope of at least maintaining my "Celexa mood", but hoping to avoid the Celexa sexual effects. A good orgasm once in a while is very high on my "wish list".
In the past, I've crashed 4-6 weeks after stopping a somewhat successful AD (Elavil, Prozac, Celexa, but not Remeron. Wellbutrin , trazadone. Effexor ). It's now been a month since stopping Celexa and starting buprenorphine.
I think the fact that I developed constipation, and felt buzzed the first few days indicates that absorption is occurring. Also. Adding Yohimbine, 5.4 mg. tid may be making a contribution. It has some AD and activating properties, so much so that I almost never take Dexedrine any more. BTW, no withdrawal effects from stopping the Dex.
"Did buprenorphine work when you took it using a syringe (sans needle, I hope)?"
I'm not sure what "work" means here. I felt the reaction that I described . I feel decent enough generally, possibly somewhat better than I did with Celexa alone (BTW, I also added 900 mg./day of Neurontin around the same time as the big switch. I know this is not scientific, but I don't have 50 years to be more systematic and test each drug separately for 6-8 weeks. I try a recipe that seems reasonable, and hope that I'll be lucky.), and sometimes I feel "pretty good. If this were a poker game, I'd stick with this hand so far.
What very noticeable effects would you expect? The ache in my shoulder went away within the first hour of the first dose.jojo
Posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 18:33:29
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » Elizabeth, posted by jojo on August 3, 2001, at 2:28:31
> You're right, I wasn't highly depressed when I was on the Celexa. I switched to buprenorphine in the hope of at least maintaining my "Celexa mood", but hoping to avoid the Celexa sexual effects. A good orgasm once in a while is very high on my "wish list".
Have you tried augmenting the SSRI with bupropion or mirtazapine? That would be easier than trying to take buprenorphine, IMO.
> I think the fact that I developed constipation, and felt buzzed the first few days indicates that absorption is occurring.
Yeah, but my guess is that it's poorly absorbed the way that you're doing it. Not to say that none of it gets into your system at all; just that it probably isn't working as well or as consistently as it could be. I think you should only have to use it 3 times a day, BTW (maybe 4).
On the other hand, you might just have become tolerant so that you don't notice the side effects. Nobody can say for sure, really, except if you tried going off the buprenorphine and seeing what would happen.
> Also. Adding Yohimbine, 5.4 mg. tid may be making a contribution. It has some AD and activating properties, so much so that I almost never take Dexedrine any more. BTW, no withdrawal effects from stopping the Dex.
Cool. Yohimbine struck me as a kind of nasty, unpleasant stimulant, personally, but if it's working for you, that's great.
> > "Did buprenorphine work when you took it using a syringe (sans needle, I hope)?"
>
> I'm not sure what "work" means here.Well, I think that for most people who respond to buprenorphine, the effect isn't "subtle" the way that other AD effects can be -- I definitely notice a sizeable improvement. Although if you're treating mild-moderate or mood-reactive depression with buprenorphine, I guess you'd be less likely to notice the effect since the size of the effect would be smaller.
> BTW, I also added 900 mg./day of Neurontin around the same time as the big switch. I know this is not scientific, but I don't have 50 years to be more systematic and test each drug separately for 6-8 weeks. I try a recipe that seems reasonable, and hope that I'll be lucky.
Perhaps once you've got a combo that works, you could try taking things out individually to see if there's anything you're taking that isn't doing anything for you.
> What very noticeable effects would you expect? The ache in my shoulder went away within the first hour of the first dose.
Yeah, it helps a lot with my back pain too. The first effects I start noticing are side effects -- dry mouth and pruritis, mainly. For me, the mood elevation manifests as activation: I start feeling interested in doing things and capable of enjoying them. My boyfriend says that it brings me back to life (in his words). The effect is more subtle now since I'm taking desipramine too, but it's definitely there.
-elizabeth
Posted by jojo on August 3, 2001, at 21:19:20
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine Question » jojo, posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 18:33:29
> > You're right, I wasn't highly depressed when I was on the Celexa. I switched to buprenorphine in the hope of at least maintaining my "Celexa mood", but hoping to avoid the Celexa sexual effects. A good orgasm once in a while is very high on my "wish list".
>
> Have you tried augmenting the SSRI with bupropion or mirtazapine? That would be easier than trying to take buprenorphine, IMO.
>
> > I think the fact that I developed constipation, and felt buzzed the first few days indicates that absorption is occurring.
>
> Yeah, but my guess is that it's poorly absorbed the way that you're doing it. Not to say that none of it gets into your system at all; just that it probably isn't working as well or as consistently as it could be. I think you should only have to use it 3 times a day, BTW (maybe 4).
>
> On the other hand, you might just have become tolerant so that you don't notice the side effects. Nobody can say for sure, really, except if you tried going off the buprenorphine and seeing what would happen.
>
> > Also. Adding Yohimbine, 5.4 mg. tid may be making a contribution. It has some AD and activating properties, so much so that I almost never take Dexedrine any more. BTW, no withdrawal effects from stopping the Dex.
>
> Cool. Yohimbine struck me as a kind of nasty, unpleasant stimulant, personally, but if it's working for you, that's great.
>
> > > "Did buprenorphine work when you took it using a syringe (sans needle, I hope)?"
> >
> > I'm not sure what "work" means here.
>
> Well, I think that for most people who respond to buprenorphine, the effect isn't "subtle" the way that other AD effects can be -- I definitely notice a sizeable improvement. Although if you're treating mild-moderate or mood-reactive depression with buprenorphine, I guess you'd be less likely to notice the effect since the size of the effect would be smaller.
>
> > BTW, I also added 900 mg./day of Neurontin around the same time as the big switch. I know this is not scientific, but I don't have 50 years to be more systematic and test each drug separately for 6-8 weeks. I try a recipe that seems reasonable, and hope that I'll be lucky.
>
> Perhaps once you've got a combo that works, you could try taking things out individually to see if there's anything you're taking that isn't doing anything for you.
>
> > What very noticeable effects would you expect? The ache in my shoulder went away within the first hour of the first dose.
>
> Yeah, it helps a lot with my back pain too. The first effects I start noticing are side effects -- dry mouth and pruritis, mainly. For me, the mood elevation manifests as activation: I start feeling interested in doing things and capable of enjoying them. My boyfriend says that it brings me back to life (in his words). The effect is more subtle now since I'm taking desipramine too, but it's definitely there.
>
> -elizabeth
"Well, I think that for most people who respond to buprenorphine, the effect isn't
"subtle" the way that other AD effects can be -- I definitely notice a sizeable
improvement. Although if you're treating mild-moderate or mood-reactive depression
with buprenorphine, I guess you'd be less likely to notice the effect since the size of
the effect would be smaller."We're treating chronic incapacitating depression here, but as it was "suppressed" by Celexa, there was no big change.
"Cool. Yohimbine struck me as a kind of nasty, unpleasant stimulant, personally, but if
it's working for you, that's great."The first few days, or week, I took a lower dose. It made me very jittery, but this has gone.
"Have you tried augmenting the SSRI with bupropion or mirtazapine? That would be
easier than trying to take buprenorphine, IMO"Tried 'em both, separately, and at the same time as the Celexa.
A strychnine tonic, which was available until about 30 years ago, might help me. I seem to suffer from a loss of genital sensitivity.
jojo
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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