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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Else on June 30, 2001, at 23:18:50
I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
Posted by Alan on July 1, 2001, at 0:28:54
In reply to Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on June 30, 2001, at 23:18:50
> I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
Well yeah. At lower doses they simply have an AD effect with the usual dry mouth to start, etc, but my pdoc won't prescribe because of higher than normal risk of TD! You aren't zombied out at the lower doses (I asked the same thing of my doc).
But to pass over the obvious meds seems like second opinion time...especially benzos for social anx. or perhaps combo MAOI's + benzos.
Best,
Alan
Posted by MM on July 1, 2001, at 1:57:30
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by Alan on July 1, 2001, at 0:28:54
> > I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
>
> Well yeah. At lower doses they simply have an AD effect with the usual dry mouth to start, etc, but my pdoc won't prescribe because of higher than normal risk of TD! You aren't zombied out at the lower doses (I asked the same thing of my doc).
>
> But to pass over the obvious meds seems like second opinion time...especially benzos for social anx. or perhaps combo MAOI's + benzos.
>
> Best,
>
> AlanAlan, are you saying YOU personally have a high risk of TD?
Posted by Anna Laura on July 1, 2001, at 2:27:34
In reply to Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on June 30, 2001, at 23:18:50
> I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
Im taking an atypical anti-psychotic plus a TCA for disthimia (actually it's a residual depression of a major depression episode).
I took anty-psychotic before it was a drug called "impromen", having a compound similar to haldol : i turned in to a zombie: flattened my affect, didn't talk , didn't do much.
The drug i'm taking right now ( 100 mg . of levosulpiride, which is one tablet i'm taking in the morning) along with TCA it doesn't affect my emotions like impromen did. I've been taking it for a month so far and i didn't have any discomfort whatsoever.
I personally don't think you should be taking them if you're not dhistimic/anhedonic ; ther's always a little risk for TD: so you shouldn't be taking them unless SSRI or other drugs didn't work for you at all. Did you talk to your pdoc about SSRI? Here in Europe ther's also a drug called "Lymbitril" which combines a TCA like amytriptiline with a benzo. I personally think you should be trying something like that instead of taking an antypsichotic as a first choice; (just a personal opinion though, talk to your pdoc about it).Good luck
Anna Laura
Posted by Alan on July 1, 2001, at 3:35:36
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by MM on July 1, 2001, at 1:57:30
> > > I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
> >
> > Well yeah. At lower doses they simply have an AD effect with the usual dry mouth to start, etc, but my pdoc won't prescribe because of higher than normal risk of TD! You aren't zombied out at the lower doses (I asked the same thing of my doc).
> >
> > But to pass over the obvious meds seems like second opinion time...especially benzos for social anx. or perhaps combo MAOI's + benzos.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Alan
>
> Alan, are you saying YOU personally have a high risk of TD?
No. Statistically everyone is. But of course stats don't mean a thing to an individual. But TD is not one of those side effects that I or my pdoc is willing to find out about...Alan
Posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 8:25:26
In reply to Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on June 30, 2001, at 23:18:50
> I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOI.
I would agree APs aren't first-line meds for social phobia & the like. That said, a selective AP (low-dose Sulpiride) is the *only* med out of about 30 to help with my s. phobia. No side-effects. Definitely don't feel 'zombified' (tho' my low dose helps in this regard).
J
Posted by Else on July 1, 2001, at 10:09:31
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Anna Laura on July 1, 2001, at 2:27:34
> > I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOIs who just happen to be the most effective drugs for this condition. When he suggested Seroquel to tame my anxiety I really hit the roof. I had to see another doctor to get Rivotril. I have this conception that APs turn you into a drooling zombie. Maybe I am wrong. I have no intention of ever trying these but I'm just curious: What do these drugs feels like when you're not psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines, do they slow you down, what? Maybe I'm just predjudiced but I can't help but think of locked-up acute psychotics on thorazine. Am I wrong?
>
> Im taking an atypical anti-psychotic plus a TCA for disthimia (actually it's a residual depression of a major depression episode).
> I took anty-psychotic before it was a drug called "impromen", having a compound similar to haldol : i turned in to a zombie: flattened my affect, didn't talk , didn't do much.
> The drug i'm taking right now ( 100 mg . of levosulpiride, which is one tablet i'm taking in the morning) along with TCA it doesn't affect my emotions like impromen did. I've been taking it for a month so far and i didn't have any discomfort whatsoever.
> I personally don't think you should be taking them if you're not dhistimic/anhedonic ; ther's always a little risk for TD: so you shouldn't be taking them unless SSRI or other drugs didn't work for you at all. Did you talk to your pdoc about SSRI? Here in Europe ther's also a drug called "Lymbitril" which combines a TCA like amytriptiline with a benzo. I personally think you should be trying something like that instead of taking an antypsichotic as a first choice; (just a personal opinion though, talk to your pdoc about it).
>
> Good luck
>
> Anna LauraThanks Anna Laura. Yeah I've tried both Zoloft and Effexor as far as SSRIs go. They were o.k. for a while but I stopped taking them because they made me indifferent to everything, especially sex, which, after two years without a bf is not good. I think these drugs are good for people who are depressed and don't care about fun and games anyway. But once you're better, you want a normal life and I don't think SSRIs help with that. I also take Wellbutrin now. It'S good but it doesn't help much with my anxiety and my insomnia.
Posted by sl on July 1, 2001, at 15:42:25
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 8:25:26
I can't find much info on that except here...
http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-s06.html#Head_5And I can't find ANY online drugstore that carries it (so I can check on price).
Do you live in another country or something, J?
sl
> I would agree APs aren't first-line meds for social phobia & the like. That said, a selective AP (low-dose Sulpiride) is the *only* med out of about 30 to help with my s. phobia. No side-effects. Definitely don't feel 'zombified' (tho' my low dose helps in this regard).
>
> J
Posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 18:19:06
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » JahL, posted by sl on July 1, 2001, at 15:42:25
> And I can't find ANY online drugstore that carries it (so I can check on price).
>
> Do you live in another country or something, J?Yeah, I'm UK where Sulpiride is readily available, as is the case in some other European countries. I'm a veteran of the whole prescription-free pharmaceuticals from abroad scenario & I'm yet to come across it. AndrewB might know of somewhere tho'.
J
==================
> > I would agree APs aren't first-line meds for social phobia & the like. That said, a selective AP (low-dose Sulpiride) is the *only* med out of about 30 to help with my s. phobia.
Posted by J on July 1, 2001, at 19:01:35
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 8:25:26
> > I don't know if it's just me or what but it seems doctors are very quick to prescribe Risperdal, Zyprexa or Seroquel to people who are not psychotic these days. I have been diagnosed with social phobia and my psychiatrist has suggested everything EXCEPT minor tranquilizers and MAOI.
>
> I would agree APs aren't first-line meds for social phobia & the like. That said, a selective AP (low-dose Sulpiride) is the *only* med out of about 30 to help with my s. phobia. No side-effects. Definitely don't feel 'zombified' (tho' my low dose helps in this regard).
>
> J
Sulpiride is the only drug out of a long list that helps with my depression/social anxiety. I currently take 300 mg/day-a single dose in the morning. It's not a complete solution, but it's a start. I have zero side-effects, and it completely cured my insomnia. I don't feel "zombified" at all. I have to say that my quality of life is a lot better because of sulpiride. I do worry about TD and EPS, but I'm willing to live with the risk.It's interesting that D2 receptors have been implicated in Social Phobia. Sulpiride is a very selective D2 receptor antagonist.
If you've got SP or APD, then I would recommend you give sulpiride or a more modern AP (Zyprexa or Geodon) a trial.
Keep fighting,
J.
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 22:59:36
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on July 1, 2001, at 10:09:31
> I also take Wellbutrin now. It'S good but it doesn't >help much with my anxiety and my insomnia.
I've been on Wellbutrin. To my knowledge, it is the only dopaminergic antidepressant, and therefore more stimulating. Which would tend to increase anxiety and insomnia. I used to take Desyrel at night to offset that. It's a terrific med, well worth augmenting with something calming, for its benefits.
Posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 23:05:16
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on July 1, 2001, at 10:09:31
My understanding is that the new-generation APs such as Zyprexa and Geodon are very different chemicals from the old. . .and act effectively, in much smaller doses than for psychosis, as a block to the effects of the dopamine cascade upon the limibic system provoked by hypervigilance and stress. Zyprexa gave me a handle on my emotions (I am an abuse survivor, and have CFS) unlike anything, ever. . .and I'd still be on it if it weren't for the major weight gain, I mean major! Besides which, 6 months of it seems to have evened me out.
It really helps to get underneath what a drug is labelled, and think about what they actually *do.*
Best,
Zo
Posted by Else on July 2, 2001, at 8:22:14
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 23:05:16
> My understanding is that the new-generation APs such as Zyprexa and Geodon are very different chemicals from the old. . .and act effectively, in much smaller doses than for psychosis, as a block to the effects of the dopamine cascade upon the limibic system provoked by hypervigilance and stress. Zyprexa gave me a handle on my emotions (I am an abuse survivor, and have CFS) unlike anything, ever. . .and I'd still be on it if it weren't for the major weight gain, I mean major! Besides which, 6 months of it seems to have evened me out.
>
> It really helps to get underneath what a drug is labelled, and think about what they actually *do.*
>
> Best,
> Zo
`Yeah well, the reason these drugs worry me is that my brother was put on Risperdal for a putative schizophreniform disorder without a proper examination (he was smoking about 7 joints a day at the time and they failed to notice that). Normally he is quite vivacious, attention-seaking, and sometimes downright hysterical but on Risperdal he was like an empty shell. No personnality, complacent, quiet, boring, no initiative whatsoever. He stopped taking it because of the so-called "sexual side-effects" and returned to normal. I feel they gave it to him to make him more manageable and were unnable to give hime a proper diagnosis because he was so doped up on both marijuana and Risperdal. He talked to me about it afterwards and his account of the treatment was: "I'm angry because these are two months of my life I'll never get back"
Posted by kid_A on July 2, 2001, at 8:58:18
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by Zo on July 1, 2001, at 23:05:16
> It really helps to get underneath what a drug is labelled, and think about what they actually *do.*
Yes.. When I first started taking Geodon, I read the insert information sheet, which has a bit that says, (I'm paraphrasing here), "This medication is for treating your symptoms of schizophrenia...." That bit certainly didnt ease my concerns...
But, in the end I do think that people have the wrong idea about atypical anti-psychotics. In low dosages they can be used effectively to augment other AD's... Plus I do believe that TD *is* reversable in the early stage if you notice side effects... I think there is a big difference between taking 20mg of geodon each day, and thorazine injections!! :)
Of course, if you thought there was a stigma to using AD's, its even worse for AP's... Mental illness in this world is treated like some form of shamefull thing, like leprosy... Try telling someone you are on anti-psychotic medication and watch the reaction you get.
Posted by MB on July 2, 2001, at 17:17:46
In reply to Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on June 30, 2001, at 23:18:50
< snip >
>What do these drugs feels like when you're not
>psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines
< snip >Yeah, my experience is that they feel like *seriously* sedating antihistamines. I can't handle antihistamines. Even Zyrtec knocks me on my butt. I took half a Zyprexia once and slept for two days straight. I hate neuroleptics. I think it is nauseating that doctors would rather risk a permanent movement disorder (e.g. permanant, irrevokable brain damage) over a dependence to benzos. The whole puritanical belief that if it feels "good" it's bad is illogical. You can thank that philosophy for the unavailability of amineptine for depression. If it doesn't make you feel *wretched* you can bet it won't be allowed as an antidepressant. Wow, rant rant rant...
Posted by Else on July 2, 2001, at 17:47:08
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by MB on July 2, 2001, at 17:17:46
>
> < snip >
> >What do these drugs feels like when you're not
> >psychotic? Do they feel like antihistamines
> < snip >
>
> Yeah, my experience is that they feel like *seriously* sedating antihistamines. I can't handle antihistamines. Even Zyrtec knocks me on my butt. I took half a Zyprexia once and slept for two days straight. I hate neuroleptics. I think it is nauseating that doctors would rather risk a permanent movement disorder (e.g. permanant, irrevokable brain damage) over a dependence to benzos. The whole puritanical belief that if it feels "good" it's bad is illogical. You can thank that philosophy for the unavailability of amineptine for depression. If it doesn't make you feel *wretched* you can bet it won't be allowed as an antidepressant. Wow, rant rant rant...
Oh yeah I've heard of amineptine. Who would want a spontaneous orgasm anyway..? I KNOW from experience that the only cocktail that makes me feel normal is Parnate with Ativan (or some other benzo). Yet my pdoc refuses to prescribe either. Is he a sadist or what? Why would I want to take Seroquel, Effexor or Depakote when I can actually take something that makes me feel *good* (a four letter word, I know). Oh, I forgot, I might become addicted. But, pardon my french, what is the fucking difference whether you're addicted or not if you take the damn pills for years. Sorry I got a little IRRITATED there. Better go take my Neurontin and wellbutrin to flatten myself into a nice little carpet you can wipe you shoes on.And the Rivotril I managed to get from my GP (not psychiatrist, God forbid he should prescribe something that actually works).
Posted by SalArmy4me on July 2, 2001, at 21:46:24
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Else, posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 8:25:26
Posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:28:59
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics? » Zo, posted by kid_A on July 2, 2001, at 8:58:18
LOL. . .That's why I generally, except here, keep my mouth shut! AND Dexedrine. Hoo-boy. I was being treated like pond scum -- and my Hispanic housekeeper, who sometimes picks up my meds, as less than that -- by one pharmacist at the local drug store, til I spoke to his manager. Now butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. :o)
[And if I disappear, we'll know what Dr. Bob thinks of the word wazoo.]
> Of course, if you thought there was a stigma to using AD's, its even worse for AP's... Mental illness in this world is treated like some form of shamefull thing, like leprosy... Try telling someone you are on anti-psychotic medication and watch the reaction you get.
Posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:31:20
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by Else on July 2, 2001, at 8:22:14
But that's not the drug. . that's a stupid use of it. There's a lot of that going around. :)
> `Yeah well, the reason these drugs worry me is that my brother was put on Risperdal for a putative schizophreniform disorder without a proper examination (he was smoking about 7 joints a day at the time and they failed to notice that). Normally he is quite vivacious, attention-seaking, and sometimes downright hysterical but on Risperdal he was like an empty shell. No personnality, complacent, quiet, boring, no initiative whatsoever. He stopped taking it because of the so-called "sexual side-effects" and returned to normal. I feel they gave it to him to make him more manageable and were unnable to give hime a proper diagnosis because he was so doped up on both marijuana and Risperdal. He talked to me about it afterwards and his account of the treatment was: "I'm angry because these are two months of my life I'll never get back"
Posted by Zo on July 2, 2001, at 23:38:03
In reply to Re: Why are so many people on anti-psychotics?, posted by MB on July 2, 2001, at 17:17:46
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that the new-generation APs, Zyprexa and Geodon, do not carry the same risks, such as TD.
As to your experience with Zyprexa, ironically, that's why I take a half a tab. . .beautiful sleep.
So often it's the DOSING, and of course the halfwit MD (Me Doctor) who prescribes the dose. . .I have seen and had so many dosing disasters in my long career as a patient, I'm thinking of staring a mass email petition to the AMA:
IT'S THE DOSE, STUPID.>
> Yeah, my experience is that they feel like *seriously* sedating antihistamines. I can't handle antihistamines. Even Zyrtec knocks me on my butt. I took half a Zyprexia once and slept for two days straight. I hate neuroleptics. I think it is nauseating that doctors would rather risk a permanent movement disorder (e.g. permanant, irrevokable brain damage) over a dependence to benzos. The whole puritanical belief that if it feels "good" it's bad is illogical. You can thank that philosophy for the unavailability of amineptine for depression. If it doesn't make you feel *wretched* you can bet it won't be allowed as an antidepressant. Wow, rant rant rant...
This is the end of the thread.
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