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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 58. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Could be time to sue the company for the addiction/withdrawal problems associated with this evil drug, effexor. It's not exactly cheap to be addicted to this drug that you build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective. The pushers should have to pay. Know any willing lawyers? I'm going to seriously look into this. I'll post with new info. If anyone out there is with me on this, let me know.
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Effexor has been the only drug out of nearly a dozen that has worked for me. Getting it taken off the market would really suck. Is that what you want?
I will support you in a suit against the FDA for greater truth in the FDA approved prescribing information sheets. Things like "most patients experience withdrawl symptoms that require gradual dose reduction" or "most patients experience sexual dysfunction" or "most patients experience weight gain". The last two are true for many anti-depressants but not stated.
Posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53
In reply to I'll testify against you » Maxine, posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
You are but one person. Lots of others are suffering. You might want to rethink such outbursts as "testifying against me". This is about a huge company who witholds information from and misleads its consumers,leading to addiction, a hellish protracted withdrawal, or lifelong use(and payment for) the drug. And no, I don't put your needs before mine and others. Good luck.
Posted by Pandora on February 8, 2001, at 14:53:40
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
I agree with MarkinBoston... no drug is perfect and we all choose to take the good with the bad if we continue on certain meds. If you feel you are "owed" something from the makers of effexor then you have every right to persue that, but don't punish the untold number of people who have found this to be the only drug that has helped keep them sane, and in some cases, alive.
As for your statement, "It's not exactly cheap to be addicted to this drug that you build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective", just because a person needs to increase their dosage does not necessarily imply that it's because they have built up a tolerance for it or are becomming addicted. Brain chemistry is still a big mystery. These drugs sometimes take a while to regulate things to a point where no more "tweeking" of the dose is required. Plus, as with other disorders, the more severe the depression, the more dramatic even a slight improvement will feel. I took a low dose at first and felt so much better that I just about bought stock in the company. After a few months, my doctor and I decided to increase the dose to see if I could feel even better - I was not in a black pit anymore but wasn't at my best either. An increase definitely helped and probably was the dose i needed in the first place, but a conservative apporach by my doc (which I wholeheartedly support) made finding my ideal dose a long term mission instead of just putting me on the maximum regardless of my actual needs... Anyway, I'm rambling now. Point is, there are many people this drug has helped and many of us who will continue to take it even though we know all the "horror stories".
Posted by pat123 on February 8, 2001, at 16:47:49
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Before you go off and sue, look up the clinical definition of addiction, ie what are the clinical features of an addictice drug or med. You will find that Effexor lacks several of the key criteria, so it is not addictive. Also is is very common for pre release studies to not indicate some problems. Effexor was reformulated into Effexor XR to address some of these problems that cropped up in the general population.
In general I am a big fan of American/Americans; till you act like this ! The answer is always to sue; ignoring the fact this med is, for a significant number, very effective at treating depression. Please try to remember how significant depression is. It kills, limits life enjoyment and happyness. There are always trade offs. If Effexor was a treatment for something minor like a rash then the side effects would be unresonable, but is is for depression.
Pat
Posted by gwen on February 8, 2001, at 19:57:43
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by pat123 on February 8, 2001, at 16:47:49
I think most of the people suffering from withdrawal symptoms of Effexor and others have not been told how to go about it because the prescribing doctor (often a GP) doesn't know enough about the drug or the patient didn't follow the doctor's directions. I didn't have a problem coming off it, but my pdoc knows his stuff.
Posted by Shell on February 8, 2001, at 23:20:54
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by pat123 on February 8, 2001, at 16:47:49
In general I am a big fan of American/Americans; till you act like this ! The answer is always to sue....
>
> PatPlease don't assume ALL Americans are lawsuit happy. Most of us will never sue anything/anyone and are embarassed by the frivolous lawsuits clogging our system. All systems have their weaknesses and unfortunately, this is one of ours.
As for the Effexor debate, I have to agree with the majority opinion. Effexor didn't help my depression at all. I did have side effects and I did go through withdrawal. It wasn't pleasant, but it didn't permanently harm me either.
The fact that it didn't help me doesn't give me the right to make it unavailable to those it will help. Yes, it is an imperfect drug and has side effects, but if it relieves depression in others, then I am all for it.
Shell
Posted by Maxine on February 9, 2001, at 2:00:24
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by Shell on February 8, 2001, at 23:20:54
Did I EVER say it should be taken off the market??? As for being lawsuit happy, I'm far from it. But pharm companies need to be held accountable for what they don't tell people. As far as the condescending tone and the "educationan" you're trying to give me - I'm close to receiving a PHd in biochem. As far as the rest of the insults, take it out on the real people in your life instead of being a coward and attacking someone you don't know and can't see. This concludes my time spent at this site, reading and/or responding. Perhaps (for some of you)a whole other class of drugs would be best for you. Or a move to an island where you can all live miserably, chewing each other out for imagined reasons. Goodbye. Good luck. Get a life.
Posted by shar on February 9, 2001, at 13:39:25
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
I'm surprised to hear someone getting a Ph.D. in biochem use the following terms:
evil drug
build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective [if you build up a tolerance, increasing the dose would make it more effective, n'est ce pas?]pushers
addiction [used in a generic, non-technical way]
Just struck me as odd is all.
Shar
Posted by MarkinBoston on February 9, 2001, at 14:15:39
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit » Maxine, posted by shar on February 9, 2001, at 13:39:25
Did you notice Maxine's email address? spleenmaxine@aol.com Perhaps venting is a major pasttime or its all to rile us up. In any case, a more sedating AD instead of an agitating one like Effexor should have been tried first. Finishing a thesis is very stressfull according to friends.
> I'm surprised to hear someone getting a Ph.D. in biochem use the following terms:
>
> evil drug
>
> build up a tolerance for and therefore is no longer even effective [if you build up a tolerance, increasing the dose would make it more effective, n'est ce pas?]
>
> pushers
>
> addiction [used in a generic, non-technical way]
>
> Just struck me as odd is all.
> Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 10, 2001, at 1:27:26
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 9, 2001, at 2:00:24
> As far as the rest of the insults, take it out on the real people in your life instead of being a coward and attacking someone you don't know and can't see. This concludes my time spent at this site, reading and/or responding.
If you change your mind, please be civil here, even if you feel you've been insulted. I'm glad no one else has reponded in kind, thanks!
Bob
PS: Any follow-ups to this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 12, 2001, at 9:33:30
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53
I too suffer from terrible withdrawal from Effexor - but so far it is the onhly med that helps me at all. Without it, I might not even live...
I'm afraid I agree with Markin here... you don't need to use it again, but spare a thought for those of us that it helps when nothing else does.
Nikki
Posted by brainshock on January 15, 2004, at 14:15:13
In reply to I'll testify against you » Maxine, posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
To hell with effexor. Can't you see that probably hundreds of thousands of people are now addicted to this medication, and also that many of them develop a tolerance for it causing it to no longer work for them. The withdrawl symptoms make it nearly impossible to stop taking. I am currently seeking legal action against both the doctor that gave me this medication without any warning of these problems, and also Wyeth, Inc.
Posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07
In reply to I'll testify against you » Maxine, posted by MarkinBoston on February 8, 2001, at 11:08:00
You are the first person I have heard anything good about this drug. How long have you been on it?
> Effexor has been the only drug out of nearly a dozen that has worked for me. Getting it taken off the market would really suck. Is that what you want?
>
> I will support you in a suit against the FDA for greater truth in the FDA approved prescribing information sheets. Things like "most patients experience withdrawl symptoms that require gradual dose reduction" or "most patients experience sexual dysfunction" or "most patients experience weight gain". The last two are true for many anti-depressants but not stated.
>
Posted by PoohBear on January 16, 2004, at 12:02:12
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 14:54:07
I too have had very good results.
I believe that many who are experiencing difficulties are being over-dosed, or do not have good follow-up from their PDoc, etc.
MOST people who take any medication do NOT post on these boards. There are many, many people who are being helped not only by Effexor but other AD's, otherwise we would hear about it in the mainstream press.
TR
Posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47
In reply to effexor lawsuit, posted by Maxine on February 7, 2001, at 16:29:24
Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
Sarah
Posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by ST on January 17, 2004, at 4:14:47
> Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> SarahSara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro
Posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit » ST, posted by micro on January 19, 2004, at 0:06:03
I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.
> > Oh wow...I jsut read this and it made me feel like I'm not the only one who is nuts! (Uhh, so to speak)
> > Effexor has helped so many people, but has harmed more, I believe. I had such a difficult time kicking Effexor. I had to do it over a three month period, I missed a lot of work due to the flu like withdrawal symptoms and was depressedn the whole time! (Even if you miss your daily dose by an hour or so, the symptoms come on!) It got down to me chipping a little off an Effexor tablet each day just to stave off the effects of withdrawal. People should be seriously warned about this drug. And my doctor was so surprised to witness my difficulties. They have no idea.
> > Sarah
>
> Sara, many medications can cause rebound symtoms. The Key [as you stated] is that titration up or down varies greatly [which many pdocs don't realize].Pcps are less experienced and hand out benzo's and ssri's like candy. The key [as in any case] is the doctor's ability to handle their cases. Pill cutters are not uncommon and good docs know to use them on a case by case basis. There is Nothing wrong with pill cutting to reduce withdrawl. Make sure your doc knows what you are doing and maybe you will both learn something very beneficial. Best Wishes . Micro
Posted by PoohBear on January 20, 2004, at 14:12:11
In reply to Re: effexor lawsuit, posted by KimberlyDi on January 19, 2004, at 16:43:03
> I wonder how much of Effexor's markup price vs cost is to cover the inevitable lawsuits that occur. I've taken Effexor. I suffered through withdrawal. I learned to be very careful and smart about how I discontinue it. You won't find me banging on some lawyers door. Just wait until we can't even take anti-depressants or any drug without signing a release form first to both doctor and drug company.
>What a breath of fresh air!
Thanks Kimberly!
TR
Posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:52:02
In reply to Effexor In The Courtroom (nm), posted by ivamcgoo on February 10, 2004, at 9:44:01
I have been on effexor xr for a approximately two years. However, the side effects have kept me from returning to work and have isolated me from family and friends. Under the "supervision" of my doctor, I have gradually reduced my daily dose to 37.5mg (from 150mg). Hot flashes, constant shock sensations, nausea, appetite loss with weight gain (figure that one out), hair loss, inconsistent and painful bowel function, increased incidence of migraine attacks, general body pain, frequent and intrusive violent dreams, insomnia, tremours, mood swings, tingling sensation in hands/feet, eye burning and twitching, sexual dysfunction (for which my doctor wanted to prescribe yet another drug), irreversable tinnitus, daily changes in vision ... and the list goes on. My life has literally been put on hold until I can purge this poison from every organ in my body; a long and tedious process. Withdrawal is deadly. My doctor is becoming unresponsive as though she is growing bored and weary of my constant complaints about the aforementioned side effects. She appears to be offended that I am researching (via internet) effexor and other drugs that have been suggested, ie: wellbutrin, remeron, etc. and tells me (with a straight face!) that she is unaware of these side effects/severe withdrawal. I am convinced that doctors, supported by drug companies, do not know, or do not care, what they are prescribing to patients in the mental health system. Due to the stigma associated with "mental health patients", our voices are weak and disregarded as though we have no worthy input of our treatment. I have been sent to psychiatrists who fall asleep before me, only to awaken asking "me" where we left off? I may be a patient of mental health, but I am not stupid. In the movie "The Hours," Virginia Woolf said, "The meanest patient, even the lowest, is allowed some say in the matter of [his] her own perscription ..." Perhaps this drug (effexor) has merit for some. But I have read too many postings on too many messages boards like this (as well as other venues), indicating that this drug is "problematic" at best, deserving of a "second look" if you will. Given the opportunity (and financial resources), I would welcome the courtroom arena!
Best regards to ALL - ivamcgoo@go.com
Posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Maxine on February 8, 2001, at 13:11:53
I hate to be the odd man out on this - so I'll through in my two cents. I went through the withdrawl and I CAN assure you it wasnt pretty, this was a year or so ago. However, clinically, Effexor is proving superior to many of the other AD's out there. Ask your doc's - dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more - the stuff just works. For me it was a miracle - it pooped out after three years, I tried it again, but to no effect. If Someone told me I could back on it and I would work the way it did before, Id gladly go through the withdrawl again and Id do it again.
Counterpoint - I also believe that the makers of effexor have completely failed in their attempts to educate doctors/consumers in the withdrawl effects. But I will bet you - that there is a very bright bio-pharm out their that is developing a drug solely for Effexor withdrawl. My port's bio-tech light so Im keeping my eyes out.
The only other point I would mention is that bringing this into a courtroom could prove absolutely fatal for many, many other benficial medications out there. I do think that there is a time and place when going before the bench has merit and value. I dont belive this to be one of those times.
Last, I would point out that advances in neurological understinding, neuro technology, bio-synthesis methods etc, are resulting in an understanding of the brain that even five years ago people would not have believed. This is where we should put our faith.Thanks for listening.
Posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
Posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37
In reply to ^5!!! Ditto (nm) » Althea8869, posted by KimberlyDi on February 11, 2004, at 8:40:34
A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.
Posted by sjb on February 11, 2004, at 13:22:16
In reply to Re: I'll testify against you, posted by Althea8869 on February 10, 2004, at 21:41:02
"dont you find it interesting how many people are complaining about the withdrawls - means a lo of folks are taking it...and I dont think its just because PD's are pushing it any more -"
Well, yeah, but if it was so great and/or didn't poop out, why are lots of folk going off of it, hence the withdrawals???
Effexor was one of the best meds for me but it pooped out and coming off of it is not a walk in the park. What has it done to us, that makes the withdrawal so unpleasant???
Posted by justjustine on February 11, 2004, at 14:50:28
In reply to Re: ^5!!! Ditto, posted by Althea8869 on February 11, 2004, at 8:53:37
i'm sorry, but i believe these pharmaceutical companies are not to be trusted.
who will make the drug to help us withdraw from the drug that helps us withdraw from the drug (the one we supposedly were never dependent on to begin with?)? doesn't anyone remember that heroin was introduced as an antidote to morphine addiction?
> A little further research last night told me that ,in fact, there are several companies that are in the early stages of developing medications for the SOLE purpose of withdrawing from antidepressants. I'll get the link and post it.
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