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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BK on January 28, 2001, at 19:40:31
I tried Nardil over 15 years ago after trying Imipramine and Lithium to treat my depression. Within 4 weeks I felt totally cured and I now realize, in hindsight, somewhat manic. Most amazingly, my cognitive abilities, such as writing and speaking skills and memory, increased dramatically as well. Unfortunately, the positive effects of the Nardil slowly dissipated and within 3 months I actually felt worst being on it and terminated its use. In addition to the classic symptoms, my depression manifests itself by depriving me of my sense of humor and can also make me withdrawn and uncomfortable. At other times, I can be extremely social and humorous. It seems as if my symptoms never totally leave me, but I can experience real good days (somewhat rare) and really bad, down in the dump, days as well. It’s a constant struggle that has made my life hellish at times.
In addition to the drugs I mentioned, I've also tried (in no particular order) Serzone, Parnate, Remeron, Prozac, Ritalin, Depakote, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Xanax, Zoloft, St. John’s Wort, SAM e, Cylert and most recently Lamictal. I did get some favorable cognitive benefits from the lamictal, but I was experiencing a persistent sore throat and severe dandruff with noticeable hair loss, so I stop taking it. I’ve also tried B12 injections, thyroid supplement and all sorts of vitamins and supplements and, of course, many sessions of therapy.
My questions are:
1) Has anyone experienced the same type of depressive symptoms, namely the lost of a sense of humor and the inability to connect with people (as best as I can describe it) as well as diminished cognitive skills like speaking and writing?
2) Has anyone had a similar experience of diminished effects while on Nardil? If so, does anyone know of a suitable replacement?Based on what i've read on the boards, I'm thinking of trying Adrafinal. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Posted by JahL on January 29, 2001, at 13:53:14
In reply to NARDIL, LAMICTAL .... WHAT NEXT, WHAT ELSE? HELP!!, posted by BK on January 28, 2001, at 19:40:31
> > I tried Nardil over 15 years ago after trying Imipramine and Lithium to treat my depression. Within 4 weeks I felt totally cured and I now realize, in hindsight, somewhat manic. Most amazingly, my cognitive abilities, such as writing and speaking skills and memory, increased dramatically as well. Unfortunately, the positive effects of the Nardil slowly dissipated and within 3 months I actually felt worst being on it and terminated its use. In addition to the classic symptoms, my depression manifests itself by depriving me of my sense of humor and can also make me withdrawn and uncomfortable. At other times, I can be extremely social and humorous. It seems as if my symptoms never totally leave me, but I can experience real good days (somewhat rare) and really bad, down in the dump, days as well. It’s a constant struggle that has made my life hellish at times.
> > In addition to the drugs I mentioned, I've also tried (in no particular order) Serzone, Parnate, Remeron, Prozac, Ritalin, Depakote, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Xanax, Zoloft, St. John’s Wort, SAM e, Cylert and most recently Lamictal. I did get some favorable cognitive benefits from the lamictal, but I was experiencing a persistent sore throat and severe dandruff with noticeable hair loss, so I stop taking it. I’ve also tried B12 injections, thyroid supplement and all sorts of vitamins and supplements and, of course, many sessions of therapy.Hi BK.
> > 1) Has anyone experienced the same type of depressive symptoms, namely the lost of a sense of humor and the inability to connect with people (as best as I can describe it) as well as diminished cognitive skills like speaking and writing?YES. You are describing my condition precisely. I no longer bother with social interaction since I find it so unfulfilling. My depression renders my brain like a brick; all the humour & spontanaiety of conversation are inaccessible.
When, like you, I had a miracle cure upon taking Paxil (which of course soon 'pooped out' on me), the most striking element to my remission was how socially adept I became. I could talk the birds out of their trees.
I had my IQ tested in remission & it was some 25-30 points higher than when I am moderately depressed.
> > 2) Has anyone had a similar experience of diminished effects while on Nardil? If so, does anyone know of a suitable replacement?Have you considered a dx somewhere along the bipolar spectrum? I'm no expert but on the previous page ChrisA & SLS (guys?) talked about early onset of depression, co-morbid ADD (ie cognitive difficulties) and 'miracle' responses which soon poop-out, as being possibly suggestive of a BP II dx.
Yr excellent response 2 Lamotrigine possibly backs this up.
Have you tried other mood stabilizers (Depakote, which I am currently taking, is not renowned for its mood-elevating properties)?
Have you tried augmenting say Nardil with an AED?
> Based on what i've read on the boards, I'm thinking of trying Adrafinal. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!I could be wrong but I'm not so sure it would be helpful in yr case. Hopefully one of our resident experts will jump in now.
Good luck,
Jah.PS. I am looking to try Lamotrigine next after Depakote. How long was it before you felt the cognitive benefits?
Posted by BK on January 29, 2001, at 16:53:35
In reply to Re: NARDIL, LAMICTAL .... WHAT NEXT, WHAT ELSE? HELP!! » BK, posted by JahL on January 29, 2001, at 13:53:14
> > > I tried Nardil over 15 years ago after trying Imipramine and Lithium to treat my depression. Within 4 weeks I felt totally cured and I now realize, in hindsight, somewhat manic. Most amazingly, my cognitive abilities, such as writing and speaking skills and memory, increased dramatically as well. Unfortunately, the positive effects of the Nardil slowly dissipated and within 3 months I actually felt worst being on it and terminated its use. In addition to the classic symptoms, my depression manifests itself by depriving me of my sense of humor and can also make me withdrawn and uncomfortable. At other times, I can be extremely social and humorous. It seems as if my symptoms never totally leave me, but I can experience real good days (somewhat rare) and really bad, down in the dump, days as well. It’s a constant struggle that has made my life hellish at times.
>
> > > In addition to the drugs I mentioned, I've also tried (in no particular order) Serzone, Parnate, Remeron, Prozac, Ritalin, Depakote, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Xanax, Zoloft, St. John’s Wort, SAM e, Cylert and most recently Lamictal. I did get some favorable cognitive benefits from the lamictal, but I was experiencing a persistent sore throat and severe dandruff with noticeable hair loss, so I stop taking it. I’ve also tried B12 injections, thyroid supplement and all sorts of vitamins and supplements and, of course, many sessions of therapy.
>
> Hi BK.
>
> > > 1) Has anyone experienced the same type of depressive symptoms, namely the lost of a sense of humor and the inability to connect with people (as best as I can describe it) as well as diminished cognitive skills like speaking and writing?
>
> YES. You are describing my condition precisely. I no longer bother with social interaction since I find it so unfulfilling. My depression renders my brain like a brick; all the humour & spontanaiety of conversation are inaccessible.
>
> When, like you, I had a miracle cure upon taking Paxil (which of course soon 'pooped out' on me), the most striking element to my remission was how socially adept I became. I could talk the birds out of their trees.
>
> I had my IQ tested in remission & it was some 25-30 points higher than when I am moderately depressed.
>
> > > 2) Has anyone had a similar experience of diminished effects while on Nardil? If so, does anyone know of a suitable replacement?
>
> Have you considered a dx somewhere along the bipolar spectrum? I'm no expert but on the previous page ChrisA & SLS (guys?) talked about early onset of depression, co-morbid ADD (ie cognitive difficulties) and 'miracle' responses which soon poop-out, as being possibly suggestive of a BP II dx.
>
> Yr excellent response 2 Lamotrigine possibly backs this up.
>
> Have you tried other mood stabilizers (Depakote, which I am currently taking, is not renowned for its mood-elevating properties)?
>
> Have you tried augmenting say Nardil with an AED?
>
> > Based on what i've read on the boards, I'm thinking of trying Adrafinal. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
>
> I could be wrong but I'm not so sure it would be helpful in yr case. Hopefully one of our resident experts will jump in now.
>
> Good luck,
> Jah.
>
> PS. I am looking to try Lamotrigine next after Depakote. How long was it before you felt the cognitive benefits?
Hey Jah,First, let me thank you for your response. Its comforting, yet painful, to know that I’m not the only one out there with this syndrome. At times I can be the total life of the party and other times I’m rather uncomfortable with myself, and I can literally feel my brain activity subside. It’s extremely frustrating since I never know which way I will behave on any given day. It seems the moods are independent of the environment or situation I’m in. The contrast in my behavior can be dramatic and I’m sure two people could easily have a diametrical opinion of me. The unpredictability just plain sucks!
The mood stabilizers that I've taken are Lithium and Depokate. Neither did much, but at least the side effects were minimal. A lot of the othr medications that i listed make me nervous. I will look into this some more as you suggested.
As far as the activation time of Lamictal, I felt positive cognitive results with 2.5 weeks. As I mentioned, the side effects really did me in after a while. However, during the first few months they were very tolerable. As you know by now, everyone reacts differently and the listed side effects posted by the drug manufactures are just incomplete statistical averages subject to wide variances.
Thanks again and I’ll keep you posted via the boards as to my progress. I'm praying that my query will click with someone and a positive, hereto untried remedy will appear.
Posted by SLS on January 30, 2001, at 11:21:24
In reply to Re: NARDIL, LAMICTAL .... WHAT NEXT, WHAT ELSE? HELP!!, posted by BK on January 29, 2001, at 16:53:35
Dear B.K.,
Try sticking with the Lamictal, perhaps temporarily at a lower tolerable dosage. I suffered the same side effects you listed early in treatment. My sore throat disappeared completely. I use a zinc pyrithione based dandruff shampoo every day. Not only does it completely relieve me of dandruff, it also seems to help to prevent the hair loss. I also experience dry, red, and scaling areas on my face around the nose and between the eybrowes. This has not gotten much better on its own, but I treat it with Aveeno moisturizing liquid. It pretty much takes care of it. If Lamictal is that helpful to you, you may want to give it a few months to see to what degree your sore throat disappears. The other things are manageable.I currently take Lamictal 300mg / day.
Good luck.
- Scott> > > > I tried Nardil over 15 years ago after trying Imipramine and Lithium to treat my depression. Within 4 weeks I felt totally cured and I now realize, in hindsight, somewhat manic. Most amazingly, my cognitive abilities, such as writing and speaking skills and memory, increased dramatically as well. Unfortunately, the positive effects of the Nardil slowly dissipated and within 3 months I actually felt worst being on it and terminated its use. In addition to the classic symptoms, my depression manifests itself by depriving me of my sense of humor and can also make me withdrawn and uncomfortable. At other times, I can be extremely social and humorous. It seems as if my symptoms never totally leave me, but I can experience real good days (somewhat rare) and really bad, down in the dump, days as well. It’s a constant struggle that has made my life hellish at times.
> >
> > > > In addition to the drugs I mentioned, I've also tried (in no particular order) Serzone, Parnate, Remeron, Prozac, Ritalin, Depakote, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Xanax, Zoloft, St. John’s Wort, SAM e, Cylert and most recently Lamictal. I did get some favorable cognitive benefits from the lamictal, but I was experiencing a persistent sore throat and severe dandruff with noticeable hair loss, so I stop taking it. I’ve also tried B12 injections, thyroid supplement and all sorts of vitamins and supplements and, of course, many sessions of therapy.
> >
> > Hi BK.
> >
> > > > 1) Has anyone experienced the same type of depressive symptoms, namely the lost of a sense of humor and the inability to connect with people (as best as I can describe it) as well as diminished cognitive skills like speaking and writing?
> >
> > YES. You are describing my condition precisely. I no longer bother with social interaction since I find it so unfulfilling. My depression renders my brain like a brick; all the humour & spontanaiety of conversation are inaccessible.
> >
> > When, like you, I had a miracle cure upon taking Paxil (which of course soon 'pooped out' on me), the most striking element to my remission was how socially adept I became. I could talk the birds out of their trees.
> >
> > I had my IQ tested in remission & it was some 25-30 points higher than when I am moderately depressed.
> >
> > > > 2) Has anyone had a similar experience of diminished effects while on Nardil? If so, does anyone know of a suitable replacement?
> >
> > Have you considered a dx somewhere along the bipolar spectrum? I'm no expert but on the previous page ChrisA & SLS (guys?) talked about early onset of depression, co-morbid ADD (ie cognitive difficulties) and 'miracle' responses which soon poop-out, as being possibly suggestive of a BP II dx.
> >
> > Yr excellent response 2 Lamotrigine possibly backs this up.
> >
> > Have you tried other mood stabilizers (Depakote, which I am currently taking, is not renowned for its mood-elevating properties)?
> >
> > Have you tried augmenting say Nardil with an AED?
> >
> > > Based on what i've read on the boards, I'm thinking of trying Adrafinal. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > I could be wrong but I'm not so sure it would be helpful in yr case. Hopefully one of our resident experts will jump in now.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Jah.
> >
> > PS. I am looking to try Lamotrigine next after Depakote. How long was it before you felt the cognitive benefits?
>
>
> Hey Jah,
>
> First, let me thank you for your response. Its comforting, yet painful, to know that I’m not the only one out there with this syndrome. At times I can be the total life of the party and other times I’m rather uncomfortable with myself, and I can literally feel my brain activity subside. It’s extremely frustrating since I never know which way I will behave on any given day. It seems the moods are independent of the environment or situation I’m in. The contrast in my behavior can be dramatic and I’m sure two people could easily have a diametrical opinion of me. The unpredictability just plain sucks!
>
> The mood stabilizers that I've taken are Lithium and Depokate. Neither did much, but at least the side effects were minimal. A lot of the othr medications that i listed make me nervous. I will look into this some more as you suggested.
>
> As far as the activation time of Lamictal, I felt positive cognitive results with 2.5 weeks. As I mentioned, the side effects really did me in after a while. However, during the first few months they were very tolerable. As you know by now, everyone reacts differently and the listed side effects posted by the drug manufactures are just incomplete statistical averages subject to wide variances.
>
> Thanks again and I’ll keep you posted via the boards as to my progress. I'm praying that my query will click with someone and a positive, hereto untried remedy will appear.
This is the end of the thread.
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