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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dreamer on January 26, 2001, at 20:51:23
can anyone please help?
starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
im kinda messed up right nowdreamer
Posted by ms. b. on January 27, 2001, at 14:27:12
In reply to effexor and nightmares, posted by dreamer on January 26, 2001, at 20:51:23
Dreamer,
Yeah, I'm on 300 mg Effexor XR, and my dreams have been very long, involved, Cecil B. DeMille epics. Seem like they go on all night. Some have been VERY disturbing, but not all, many with images that are just impossible to get out of my head.I try to balance some of this disturbing dream stuff with the fact that before the Effexor, I was on Zoloft 200 mg/day, and I slept very fitfully. Most nights, I would fall asleep for 2 or 3 hours, after reading to my daughter in our evening snuggle, then get up, and stay awake till 2 or 3 am, then get a few more hours before getting up and getting her ready for school. My pdoc says I wasn't getting very much, if any, REM sleep, which is not good. She says you need at least 5 - 6 hours in a row to get the REM.
So now at least I'm dreaming...
However, a friend gave me a 10 mg of Ambien, because I'm going thru a breakup and again not sleeping enough, or grabbing a few hours whenever I can, but tending to stay up till 4 or 5 in the am (obsessively reading the Dr. Bob site!). She says the 10 mgs should last me a while, she just chews a little off the pill, and it helps her right away. Sometimes she says she only has to lick it a little, and it does the trick! So if you're not sleeping well, the Ambien might be good to try, just take the minumum.
Anyway, I nibbled a little Ambien last night (well, at 4:35 am), and it did me good. From what I've heard, one can develop dependence on it, but I only know this from the therapist and the pdoc, not from personal experience. If you're already in the depressive phase of BP-II and use too much of it, like you need it every night, it can deepen the depression. My bi-polar ex went through this a few months ago, taking Ambien to sleep because he was in a hypomanic phase. He got more depressed than I'd ever seen him, and I was afraid I'd have to take him to the hospital so he didn't hurt himself. He got off it right away when he heard this was only exacerbating the depression, and is now on Neurontin, and he sleeps well at night now without any Ambien. He swore he'd never take any again.
Perhaps Xanax to help you sleep, then?
Anyway, sorry to run on, hope this helps, and try not to get too disturbed about the nightmares. Just think of them as dreams with a twist (?). Perhaps if you wrote them down you could determine a pattern of the dream-thoughts and content. It might make a good self-analysis project. I have done this, and realize I've been dreaming a lot about houses (big, impossible structures that I try to get through while pushing a shopping cart filled with groceries, and holding an infant on my hip...) Very nutty stuff.
hang in there,
B.
> can anyone please help?
> starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
> ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
> im kinda messed up right now
>
> dreamer
Posted by PatJ. on January 27, 2001, at 19:59:20
In reply to effexor and nightmares, posted by dreamer on January 26, 2001, at 20:51:23
> can anyone please help?
> starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
> ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
> im kinda messed up right now
Hi Dreamer,
I am in the same boat as you with the nightmares. They are horrible and several times a week, and very long and extremely disturbing. You can compare them to the Psycho movie. I stay up very late at times to avoid going to sleep. Taking a tranquilizer seems to help but I don't want to take them that much. I wonder if there is an antinightmare drug?! I'm giggling here but they do seem to have a drug for everything. I have never tried ambian but then I have the tranquilizers to help. I don't find them the best answer either. I hope you can get some relief and I can, too. I wasn't sure the effexor was doing it but it makes sense now.
> dreamer
Posted by dreamer on January 28, 2001, at 17:03:15
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares » dreamer, posted by ms. b. on January 27, 2001, at 14:27:12
> Dreamer,
> Yeah, I'm on 300 mg Effexor XR, and my dreams have been very long, involved, Cecil B. DeMille epics. Seem like they go on all night. Some have been VERY disturbing, but not all, many with images that are just impossible to get out of my head.
>
> I try to balance some of this disturbing dream stuff with the fact that before the Effexor, I was on Zoloft 200 mg/day, and I slept very fitfully. Most nights, I would fall asleep for 2 or 3 hours, after reading to my daughter in our evening snuggle, then get up, and stay awake till 2 or 3 am, then get a few more hours before getting up and getting her ready for school. My pdoc says I wasn't getting very much, if any, REM sleep, which is not good. She says you need at least 5 - 6 hours in a row to get the REM.
>
> So now at least I'm dreaming...
>
> However, a friend gave me a 10 mg of Ambien, because I'm going thru a breakup and again not sleeping enough, or grabbing a few hours whenever I can, but tending to stay up till 4 or 5 in the am (obsessively reading the Dr. Bob site!). She says the 10 mgs should last me a while, she just chews a little off the pill, and it helps her right away. Sometimes she says she only has to lick it a little, and it does the trick! So if you're not sleeping well, the Ambien might be good to try, just take the minumum.
>
> Anyway, I nibbled a little Ambien last night (well, at 4:35 am), and it did me good. From what I've heard, one can develop dependence on it, but I only know this from the therapist and the pdoc, not from personal experience. If you're already in the depressive phase of BP-II and use too much of it, like you need it every night, it can deepen the depression. My bi-polar ex went through this a few months ago, taking Ambien to sleep because he was in a hypomanic phase. He got more depressed than I'd ever seen him, and I was afraid I'd have to take him to the hospital so he didn't hurt himself. He got off it right away when he heard this was only exacerbating the depression, and is now on Neurontin, and he sleeps well at night now without any Ambien. He swore he'd never take any again.
>
> Perhaps Xanax to help you sleep, then?
>
> Anyway, sorry to run on, hope this helps, and try not to get too disturbed about the nightmares. Just think of them as dreams with a twist (?). Perhaps if you wrote them down you could determine a pattern of the dream-thoughts and content. It might make a good self-analysis project. I have done this, and realize I've been dreaming a lot about houses (big, impossible structures that I try to get through while pushing a shopping cart filled with groceries, and holding an infant on my hip...) Very nutty stuff.
>
> hang in there,
> B.
>
> Thanks for your reply,im sleeping alot at the moment.if i sleep for two hours i don't,well, i can't remember any dreams so i get up for a while then sleep for another two.
The dreams are re-visits to my childhood memories id rather forget,but with more sinister twists.Watching the news and seeing all the worlds problems should make my problems insignificant.
I will read prevous posts about xanax and Bobs tips.It's been a frosty morning here in uk but the sun was streaming,sunlight on ice always perks me up.
All the best,dreamer
> > can anyone please help?
> > starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
> > ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
> > im kinda messed up right now
> >
> > dreamer
Posted by dreamer on January 28, 2001, at 17:12:20
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares, posted by PatJ. on January 27, 2001, at 19:59:20
> > can anyone please help?
> > starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
> > ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
> > im kinda messed up right now
>
>
> Hi Dreamer,
> I am in the same boat as you with the nightmares. They are horrible and several times a week, and very long and extremely disturbing. You can compare them to the Psycho movie. I stay up very late at times to avoid going to sleep. Taking a tranquilizer seems to help but I don't want to take them that much. I wonder if there is an antinightmare drug?! I'm giggling here but they do seem to have a drug for everything. I have never tried ambian but then I have the tranquilizers to help. I don't find them the best answer either. I hope you can get some relief and I can, too. I wasn't sure the effexor was doing it but it makes sense now.
> > dreamerHello PatJ
Been through Dr Bobs tips and came across a pill called Clonidine[0.1mg] thats supposed to help with nightmares from effexor so I'll search to find out more about it
All other SSRI's have always provided such pleasant dreams so it has to be the effexor,i suppose if anxiety is reduced to such a great extent it has to leak out somehow.
All the best,dreamer
Posted by Sunnely on January 28, 2001, at 21:52:33
In reply to effexor and nightmares, posted by dreamer on January 26, 2001, at 20:51:23
> can anyone please help?
> starting to enter the depressive phase of bi-polar,and i get such horrific nightmares that put me on edge all day i know its the effexor my doctor said its usuall to get this problem while coming off the drug but it happens while on it especially as i get ill.
> ive heard of ambien is it addictive?
> im kinda messed up right now
>
> dreamer
======================Hi Dreamer,
Dreams and nightmares most often occur during rapid eye movement (REM). Vivid dreaming is a well-known side effect of dopamine-boosting drugs such as L-dopa (Dopar, Larodopa) and bupropion (Wellbutrin).
Venlafaxine (Effexor) is a serotonin-norepinephrine antidepressant. Serotonergic drugs have occasionally been associated with changes in dream activity (e.g., vivid dreams and nightmares). Two explanations are conceivable, one related directly to REM sleep alterations and a second involving stimulation of serotonin-2 (5-HT2) receptors. First, although Effexor has a dose-related suppression effect on REM sleep, a tolerance (effect wears off) to this effect could be developed after some time, which may induce vivid dreaming. In addition, the stimulation of 5-HT2 receptors may in some cases be associated with alterations of dreaming activity, such as nightmares. This is supported by the effectiveness of 5-HT2 receptor blockers such as cyproheptadine (Periactin), mirtazapine (Remeron), and nefazodone (Serzone) in the treatment of nightmares, especially in posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD). A serotonin-effect mechanism could therefore be involved in dreaming processes in at least some of the patients. Finally, the involvement of the noradrenergic (norepinephrine) system should not be excluded, since the alpha2 agonists (enhancers) such as clonidine (Catapres) and guanfacine (Tenex) have some effectiveness in the treatment of nightmares associated with PTSD.
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 12:37:42
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares » PatJ., posted by dreamer on January 28, 2001, at 17:12:20
Hi Dreamer,
Thanks for the info. on clonidine. I'll ask my doctor about it. I'm also considering changing medicines because I keep feeling cold and hot and changing the thermostat and can't get comfortable. I woke up in a sweat last night but I wonder if I had one of those dreams again or if it was the body temp. change thing from effexor. I couldn't fall back to sleep right away but did manage to after all. This body temp. change is bothering me, too. I am doing better with Effexor, too, so that's another consideration for me. Some days things will bother us more than others too I've found.
Posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 17:31:37
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares-clonidine, posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 12:37:42
I looked in my drug book about clonidine and it sounds scary to take. It is for high blood pressure and used with another drug. There are warnings about suddenly going off of it. It also said a bad side effect was nightmares for one thing-strange. Maybe it can take them away or cause them. Some drugs do those things. I still have to ask my doctor about it. I'd be interested in whatever you research about it, too.
Posted by dreamer on January 30, 2001, at 13:41:31
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares-clonidine-dreamer, posted by PatJ. on January 29, 2001, at 17:31:37
PatJ-
Clonidine -for migraines and the side effects are scarey,maybe 0.01mg is harmless.
Found info in psycho-babble post March 17,1999 posted by Elizebeth ,Re-Insomnia,Vivid dreams,reboxetine+effexor.
Searched endlessly on the web, wondering if self hypnosis might work,oh well,off for a shower to wash those dreams away.Post back if you discover anything.dreamer
Posted by PatJ. on January 31, 2001, at 0:48:52
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares-clonidine-PatJ » PatJ., posted by dreamer on January 30, 2001, at 13:41:31
> PatJ-
> Clonidine -for migraines and the side effects are scarey,maybe 0.01mg is harmless.
> Found info in psycho-babble post March 17,1999 posted by Elizebeth ,Re-Insomnia,Vivid dreams,reboxetine+effexor.
> Searched endlessly on the web, wondering if self hypnosis might work,oh well,off for a shower to wash those dreams away.Post back if you discover anything.
>
> dreamerDreamer,
Thanks. I'll look around but tomorrow. I'm tired and just can't wait to have another nightmare. ;-) On second thought there are some interesting shows on t.v. still tonight...
Posted by PatJ. on February 1, 2001, at 21:15:42
In reply to Re: effexor and nightmares-clonidine-PatJ » PatJ., posted by dreamer on January 30, 2001, at 13:41:31
> PatJ-
> Clonidine -for migraines and the side effects are scarey,maybe 0.01mg is harmless.
> Found info in psycho-babble post March 17,1999 posted by Elizebeth ,Re-Insomnia,Vivid dreams,reboxetine+effexor.
> Searched endlessly on the web, wondering if self hypnosis might work,oh well,off for a shower to wash those dreams away.Post back if you discover anything.
>
> dreamerHi Dreamer,
I had some real good herb tea last night and I can't remember a thing I dreamed-that's good, too. It's Celestial Seasonings Wellness Tea-Tension Tamer Extra-it has kava kava in it and some other relaxing herbs. I also got some Chamomile Extra that should be good too. I felt more relaxed when I got up, too. I got it at Wal Mart for $2.50 a box. I used 2 teabags in a extra large mug.
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