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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
Hi everyone,
Saw the doc yesterday to follow up on my new meds (Tegretol and Desipramine). I told him that I thought I was doing better the first few days, but lately I'd been getting very tired by noon every day, which made me depressed. The mood swings and anger were returning also. He said rather than put me on the Lithium right now, he wanted to try one more med. So now were trying Paxil for awhile. We stopped the Teg and Desip. He said he'd rather have me moody and angry than having those thoughts of stepping off in front of a train again. I agreed. My anxiety is still out of control and Xanax has become a way of life for me. If anyone is taking or has taken Paxil, please tell me about it. I'm such a pain.....
He gave me a reference to a Psychotherapist which I will call today for an appt. I think it's time. My concern about therapy is that it's going to open a great big can of worms and I'm going to end up with even more crap to deal with than I already have. Don't know if I can handle that....
Oh well, another day in the life.... Thanks for letting me babble.
A peaceful day to all,
Greg
Posted by Nibor on August 1, 2000, at 8:35:02
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
> Hi everyone,
>
> Saw the doc yesterday to follow up on my new meds (Tegretol and Desipramine). I told him that I thought I was doing better the first few days, but lately I'd been getting very tired by noon every day, which made me depressed. The mood swings and anger were returning also. He said rather than put me on the Lithium right now, he wanted to try one more med. So now were trying Paxil for awhile. We stopped the Teg and Desip. He said he'd rather have me moody and angry than having those thoughts of stepping off in front of a train again. I agreed. My anxiety is still out of control and Xanax has become a way of life for me. If anyone is taking or has taken Paxil, please tell me about it. I'm such a pain.....
>
> He gave me a reference to a Psychotherapist which I will call today for an appt. I think it's time. My concern about therapy is that it's going to open a great big can of worms and I'm going to end up with even more crap to deal with than I already have. Don't know if I can handle that....
>
> Oh well, another day in the life.... Thanks for letting me babble.
>
> A peaceful day to all,
> Greg
Hi, Greg
I only have experience with zoloft and paxil. Zoloft was not the right choice for me--I had trouble sleeping, was too jumpy. About four years ago, I started on paxil. I think of it as a vitamin for my brain. Actually, anxiety was ruling my life-and now I worry appropriately to the situation.
Of course, it does have the usual side effects in the romance department, but these are not extreme and can be worked out. And then there are the
dreams I talked about in another thread--but I enjoy them and don't know if they are related to the paxil.
In any case, I think paxil is helpful for anxiety. Hope this little bit helps you.
Nibor
Posted by cakes on August 1, 2000, at 8:59:01
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
Hi Greg,
I can give you a little insight about how Paxil worked for me. It made me a different person; I liked me on Paxil. Socially, I felt more in place. I could actually speak to people without feeling stupid. The downfall for me with Paxil was the side effects. I was put on it three months before I got married. (You can imagine the anxiety associated with that!) By the time I was into a month of marriage, I had absolutely no interest in sex. I gained 15 lbs. My hair started to fall out. Besides all that, it was great. Needless to say, I got off. I switched to Serzone, which I didn't like at all. It made me feel weirder than I already did. I'm now on Effexor xr (2 weeks; doing fine so far.) It might encourage you to know that my brother is on Paxil and doing great!!!! He is a different person, and better yet, having no trouble with side effects. Who knows? It may be just what you need. Hang in there and see how you feel.
Good luck. Cakes
Posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 9:59:02
In reply to New kid on the block..., posted by cakes on August 1, 2000, at 8:59:01
At the appt yesterday, my doc mentioned the possibility of medical marijuana as an alternative. I thought that was only prescribed for terminal Cancer patients? Or am I less informed than I thought.....
Thanks Nibor and Cakes for your replies! And welcome to both of you! Glad that you're here!
"New Kid on the Block", might be a good name for a band.....
Peace, Greg
Posted by Nibor on August 1, 2000, at 10:18:56
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 9:59:02
> At the appt yesterday, my doc mentioned the possibility of medical marijuana as an alternative. I thought that was only prescribed for terminal Cancer patients? Or am I less informed than I thought.....
>
> Thanks Nibor and Cakes for your replies! And welcome to both of you! Glad that you're here!
>
> "New Kid on the Block", might be a good name for a band.....
>
> Peace, GregHoly Toledo, I had to respond to this one.
When I said in a previous post that paxil made me more like my old self, what was running through my head was "Yeah, like I was in the sixties and seventies." In the sixties, grass was my high of choice; I didn't really enjoy alcohol then or now. Early seventies, love and marriage...mid to late seventies babies and new family stopped use of marijuana but other highs took its place. But I often wish it had become legal and then could be used socially now in a responsible way... the way SOME people use alcohol.
What a stitch. This is one old lady who looks pretty respectable, has been raising a family, working, all the right things. In fact, I must have an addictive personality because I definitely have a weight/food thing. Yet heavy marijuana use in the '60s, indeed from 1963 (early as that goes) through '71...yet no problem stopping--other than the fond, wistful memories.
I bet medical use of marijuana would help lots of the anxiety related illnesses.
Nibor
Posted by Janice on August 1, 2000, at 11:01:12
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
>hi Greg,
I'm trying to figure out the method behind his madness. So many meds & therapy so fast.
I did paxil, it was great for my anxiety which never came back, but put me into hypomania in 10 days times and increased the rapid cycling.
Janice
the marijauna doesn't sound so bad for short-term relief.
Posted by tina on August 1, 2000, at 11:14:16
In reply to Re: Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Janice on August 1, 2000, at 11:01:12
Uh, medicinal marijuana?? Interesting notion. What a strange medical system you have down there. No doc that I know would ever suggest that course of treatment unless you WERE a terminal cancer patient or had really out of control epilepsy. Don't know what to say to that except be careful please.
Love ya
Tina
P.S. I'm with Janice on this one. I think he's not giving the meds enough time to do anything before changing them. IMHO> >hi Greg,
>
> I'm trying to figure out the method behind his madness. So many meds & therapy so fast.
>
> I did paxil, it was great for my anxiety which never came back, but put me into hypomania in 10 days times and increased the rapid cycling.
>
> Janice
>
> the marijauna doesn't sound so bad for short-term relief.
Posted by cakes on August 1, 2000, at 11:15:33
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 9:59:02
> "New Kid on the Block", might be a good name for a band.....
You like that, huh?!!! (Slightly after my heyday!!!) It seems to me you'd have to smoke quite often throughout the day to have a constant calming effect as highs don't last that long. I know I couldn't function, but if you think you could, why not try it?:) cakes
Posted by Margaret on August 1, 2000, at 12:21:36
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
Greg, I am currently taking Paxil. Although as you know I hate the side-effect weight gain, I have had great success with it. It worked very quickly for me and it really helped with my anxiety and anger. I feel pretty level headed most of the time and I would never consider coming off it except I get a little obsessed with the weight thing. If you know that a head of time, than you can monitor you diet and go ahead and try it. I think you may find it works for you. My thoughts are with you. You will feel better. This I know.
Posted by JaneST on August 1, 2000, at 14:46:28
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 9:59:02
Greggor:
The only experience I had with Paxil was very brief and it was immediately after coming off Nardil (after the two week washout) and I guess I was already on such a slide I/we opted to try something else right away. I was told it had a great anti-anxiety agent...as I was requiring 2 mg Xanax each day in addition to the AD.Re marijuana: my pdoc at the time told me to steer clear as it could bring on anxiety/panic attacks (my remeron brain won't give me the correct term here,sorry). Ironically, the first panic attack I ever had was while high...many moons ago...so don't mean to be so discouraging, just telling you another version.
Whatever, I hope this works for you...and quickly!
Love,
Jane
Posted by JennyR on August 1, 2000, at 21:22:23
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
The part about concern about the psychotherapist - opening a can of worms and more crap to deal with - I understand having hesitation. But to me, therapy is the best gift I ever gave myself. If you find a therapist you really click with, it can be really wonderful. To be listened to like you never have been, understood like you never have been is great. As far as what content you get into and how deeply, with a good therapist you set the pace and you deal with what you can handle as you can handle it. I have gotten so much out of my therapy (2 1/2 years) that I can't recommend it strongly enough. It's the first place where my perspective was taken as valid. I'm used to being negated. I feel so supported by my therapist. It is the most nurtured I've ever been by anybody (and I'm married for 15 years). The content has been very painful, but the support, the caring make it bearable and enable me to figure out what I have to. I urge you to give it a try. You'll know early on if you click with that person.
Posted by Cindy W on August 1, 2000, at 22:19:12
In reply to Re: Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by JennyR on August 1, 2000, at 21:22:23
> The part about concern about the psychotherapist - opening a can of worms and more crap to deal with - I understand having hesitation. But to me, therapy is the best gift I ever gave myself. If you find a therapist you really click with, it can be really wonderful. To be listened to like you never have been, understood like you never have been is great. As far as what content you get into and how deeply, with a good therapist you set the pace and you deal with what you can handle as you can handle it. I have gotten so much out of my therapy (2 1/2 years) that I can't recommend it strongly enough. It's the first place where my perspective was taken as valid. I'm used to being negated. I feel so supported by my therapist. It is the most nurtured I've ever been by anybody (and I'm married for 15 years). The content has been very painful, but the support, the caring make it bearable and enable me to figure out what I have to. I urge you to give it a try. You'll know early on if you click with that person.
JennyR, I went to see my pdoc today and am thinking of discontinuing therapy, now. After about a year of coming to really feel understood and cared about, today I felt like just giving up and never going back. I'm trying to get the courage to divorce (have been married 26 years) and he said, "just do it!" and that insight doesn't matter (which is probably true), but I feel too really scared to take action. So now I feel hurt and am decreasing my antidepressant (Effexor-XR) so that I can perhaps change pdocs, although I've been crazy about him until now. The medication helped decrease the OCD and depression to the point where I can begin to handle other problems in my life, but I'm so afraid, I feel paralyzed still. I feel like he was saying, either do it, or don't come back anymore whining about things. Probably he is right, but I still can't handle the fears (mostly of my own feelings). I've lived separately now for almost four years, so know I can take care of myself. I feel so ashamed, guilty, and hurt. What did you do when you felt like quitting therapy, if things ever seemed too much to handle too fast? I'd like to get the worms back in the can and not open any more cans of worms right now!
Posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 0:27:31
In reply to Re: One other thing... » Greg, posted by Nibor on August 1, 2000, at 10:18:56
Greg,
I agree with Nibor. It could be really helpful. I have heard of it being used with other populations.Good luck with the Paxil. It might be the one!
Shar
Posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 0:32:48
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by cakes on August 1, 2000, at 11:15:33
I think there are more options with medical MJ, cooking with it, getting it in the form of TCH or whatever the active ingredient is called, and getting it as hashish.
It is supposed to be good for people with certain cornea or eye problems, people who are getting chemo (for nausea and appetite).
>
>
> > "New Kid on the Block", might be a good name for a band.....
>
> You like that, huh?!!! (Slightly after my heyday!!!) It seems to me you'd have to smoke quite often throughout the day to have a constant calming effect as highs don't last that long. I know I couldn't function, but if you think you could, why not try it?
>
> :) cakes
Posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 0:48:35
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
Greg,
I've never used Paxil but it seems rare to hear of an awful experience on it. I do hope that you will find your med or med combo soon. It can be so demoralizing waiting for another med to kick in so you can see if you feel better.I have always (since 20's) been in therapy. Some therapists and formats were better than others, but I always felt that it was a safe place to be. Sometimes just that can be a great help. Like being in the eye of the storm when things aren't going so great.
Good luck with your meds and with your therapy. I really believe that our psyches have a sort of governor on them, so we aren't subsumed by a torrent of "worms." I figure when it takes me 2 years to realize something that was right in front of my face--I wasn't ready to deal with it before that or needed to master some skill in order to deal with it. I trust that we somehow keep ourselves out of areas we really couldn't handle.
Take heart, you do not stand alone!
Shar (pulling for Paxil)
> Hi everyone,
>
> Saw the doc yesterday to follow up on my new meds (Tegretol and Desipramine). I told him that I thought I was doing better the first few days, but lately I'd been getting very tired by noon every day, which made me depressed. The mood swings and anger were returning also. He said rather than put me on the Lithium right now, he wanted to try one more med. So now were trying Paxil for awhile. We stopped the Teg and Desip. He said he'd rather have me moody and angry than having those thoughts of stepping off in front of a train again. I agreed. My anxiety is still out of control and Xanax has become a way of life for me. If anyone is taking or has taken Paxil, please tell me about it. I'm such a pain.....
>
> He gave me a reference to a Psychotherapist which I will call today for an appt. I think it's time. My concern about therapy is that it's going to open a great big can of worms and I'm going to end up with even more crap to deal with than I already have. Don't know if I can handle that....
>
> Oh well, another day in the life.... Thanks for letting me babble.
>
> A peaceful day to all,
> Greg
Posted by JohnB on August 2, 2000, at 3:09:12
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
> My anxiety is still out of control and Xanax has become a way of life for me.
Marijuana may not help this situation and sometimes has a vicious flip-side paranoia.
Posted by cakes on August 2, 2000, at 9:28:35
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 0:32:48
> I think there are more options with medical MJ, cooking with it, getting it in the form of TCH or whatever the active ingredient is called, and getting it as hashish.
>
> It is supposed to be good for people with certain cornea or eye problems, people who are getting chemo (for nausea and appetite).
You are right. People with glaucoma use it. My husband smoked it after chemo treatment for nausea. Just curious, do you know if the effect would last longer if taken in another manner such as preparing it in food?Have a happy day, Cakes
Posted by stjames on August 2, 2000, at 16:05:11
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
...
>
> He gave me a reference to a Psychotherapist which I will call today for an appt. I think it's time. My concern about therapy is that it's going to open a great big can of worms and I'm going to end up with even more crap to deal with than I already have. Don't know if I can handle that....
>
James here....Working with a good theripist could be a process of opening the can 'o worms, dealing with them and then putting the lid on once and for all.
james
Posted by shar on August 2, 2000, at 18:48:28
In reply to Re: One other thing..., posted by cakes on August 2, 2000, at 9:28:35
I don't know if it would last longer, it might be possible to make a more concentrated dose in food. And, you can eat a brownie almost anywhere. But, cooking with regular MJ, you have to do a couple of things to it first. Maybe using the TCH or whatever would be better.
Shar
> > I think there are more options with medical MJ, cooking with it, getting it in the form of TCH or whatever the active ingredient is called, and getting it as hashish.
> >
> > It is supposed to be good for people with certain cornea or eye problems, people who are getting chemo (for nausea and appetite).
>
>
> You are right. People with glaucoma use it. My husband smoked it after chemo treatment for nausea. Just curious, do you know if the effect would last longer if taken in another manner such as preparing it in food?
>
> Have a happy day, Cakes
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 3, 2000, at 9:05:51
In reply to Pdoc visit and yet another new med...., posted by Greg on August 1, 2000, at 7:56:23
I wouldn't reccomend cooking with it!! :o) Cooking it released something with the THC an dmake sit actually stronger - and more likely to cause anxiety an dpanic. Smoking it tends to make you mellower than eating it.
Greg, as I've told you before, I tend to smoke regularly (but not HUGE amounts). I find it helps relax me, and causes my brain to slow down, and stop thoughts rushing round them. Also, it *really* helps with the sleeping - calms the dreams down as well as helping me to actually sleep.
Good luck hun.. a nd you know where I am if needed OK?
n xx
Posted by dove on August 3, 2000, at 16:08:59
In reply to That other thing!!, posted by NikkiT2 on August 3, 2000, at 9:05:51
Greg, are you bipolar, or some combo of anxiety-depression? I have a medium sized history of self-medication w/ illicit substances and there was one that really messed with both my anxiety and depression and that was MJ. Talk about paranoia and panic attacks, talk about finding life hopelessly worthless. A little bit initially gave me a warm relaxed feeling, but that soon wore off, leaving something very ugly, and a strong desire to do a little bit more again, and again. I tried pumping up the amount to cover longer periods of time, but that caused the same negative-ugly symptoms only amplified.
Does anyone remember how dull, colorless, boring, lethargic and stifled everything seemed when straight? Leaving the MJ and walking the straight line was like checking out of life in general. I despised that feeling, as if life was so boring and colorless that I needed a drug to paint it vibrant. Anxiety was strongly in place a mere 20-30 minutes afterwards. And only intensified as the hours wore on. Depression, what can I say, ugly and unmanagable, the only reason I didn't do something about any of these feelings was because I was too darn lazy. How could I get off the couch and organize a riot, or a jump into the netherworld for that matter. So, if the doc is looking for something to physically slow you down, this would be the one to try. But... If your doc is looking for something to soothe anxiety, helplessness, hopelessness, this may be a bad choice.
MJ turns the heat up under anxiety in a significant manner, both in intensity and frequency, and I cannot emphasize this enough. It really did a number on me, I was a social butterfly, everyone knew me, I was wanted at every party, every social gathering, I had so many friends (and as a teenager boyfriends), only to find myself unable to leave the house, ride in cars with someone else driving, meet new people, and unable to fellowship with family or friends under almost any circumstances.
Also the spiritual aspect of MJ makes me leery (and not Timothy), it's like opening a door to your soul, and I don't want to open a door, a window would be much better, with iron bars and grates to keep out the demons. I think many people underestimate the legitimacy of spirit and soul, and the unseen immaterial world. For me, MJ definitely has the power to make me extremely vulnerable, opening many many doors that should remain closed, locked, and mortared (not the shelled kind but the cement kind.) shut, permanently.
Just some light thoughts :-) My best wishes and love I send to thee ((Greg))
dove
p.s. Digesting MJ (though food and stuff) does have a different "flavor" than inhaled, and increased anxiety is a big one. Same goes for hash.
Posted by Greg on August 3, 2000, at 17:33:12
In reply to New meds and the downside, posted by dove on August 3, 2000, at 16:08:59
Wow!
Little did I know that mentioning the use of pot would spur such interesting responses. I'm amazed that they were so equally divided too. I wanted to make sure you all knew that this was just a suggestion by my doc for a possible alternative in the future, and I am not using it now.
Out of all the drugs I used in my younger (much) days, and I tried almost all of them, I liked pot the most. I haven't used it in almost 15 years, but I still think about it from time to time. I remember feeling relaxed and calm when I smoked it, something that is sadly lacking in my life now. I have no clue how I would react to it today, I'm definitely not the same person I was then. I haven't always been the angel that I am today... I was a wild child with an attitude and didn't think that anything could ever harm me. I've grown up a lot since then. I just don't know what to do with what I've been feeling lately and quite honestly, I'm getting a little desperate for answers. I should be starting therapy next week, and while that "can of worms" still scares the bejesus out of me, I'm trying to remain optomistic. I can assure you this, whatever doc and I decide to do it will be well thought out and closely supervised. I have way too much to lose and I'm way too old to chance losing it.
Thanks to everyone for your great feedback! I will think them all over and read them at least another dozen times each before making a decision. It's nice to have people who care.
Greg
Posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2000, at 18:52:09
In reply to Re: The Marijuana Diaries, posted by Greg on August 3, 2000, at 17:33:12
I used to think that marijuana was a fairly inocuous drug, but I have seen instances of psychosis-like reactions to it and it has been implicated as a trigger in first-break of bipolar disorder. Also, I have noticed that when some of my clients with schizophrenia, when they smoke pot they seem to relapse. The relapse may not have been caused by the pot, though. When I've asked them about this, they just said the pot made them feel better. They may have used the pot to try to stop the relapse from happening; sort of a self-medicating kind of thing.
For most people, marijuana is probably not harmful when compared to some diversions, but it does alter perception (do not operate machinery), and can cause a mild psychological addiction.
Also, I have a question. Does marijuana smoking cause apathy or does apathy cause marijuana smoking?
This is my "quarter's" worth, but I bet it doesn't make and "ounce" of sense. - Cam
=^)
Posted by shar on August 3, 2000, at 20:17:55
In reply to Re: The Marijuana Diaries, posted by Cam W. on August 3, 2000, at 18:52:09
When I was in my teen years and everyone was drinking, I couldn't. I would drink maybe half a beer and barf. So, I was the designated driver. Also, did not do MJ then.
I guess about age 21 I tried MJ and it was SO great, good mood, easy laugh, getting slowed down so slowwwww it was funny. I remember (later) trying to read a sales agreement my friend signed when she bought a sofa on credit, and we ended up in a heap on the floor; we could hardly get through one sentence of the small print and understand it.
Oh well. What happened years later was MJ stopped being fun. I would have a toke or two, and start feeling bad, like it was dooms day, paranoid, and terrified.
So, it was about then I started drinking (at a family reunion) and lo and behold I had gotten over my "allergy" or whatever it was that kept me sober in my youth. So, then I started drinking way too much, and now I don't drink anymore.
But, when it worked, MJ got me through some very bad times, helped me plane out, made life a bit more humorous. I don't know why the switch flipped on it.
Anyway, about the act of smoking--my understanding is that MJ is much worse than cigarettes for you. Or that could be propaganda. There is a lot of propaganda out there.
Everybody, all together now....
S
Posted by Nibor on August 3, 2000, at 22:25:54
In reply to Smoking MJ=Not Healthy ?(Rambling), posted by shar on August 3, 2000, at 20:17:55
This has been an interesting discussion. Greg, I too, haven't used grass in over 20 years--except for 3 or 4 spread-over-time occasions (the last time 13 years ago). And I'm pretty sure I would become paranoid if I got high; mostly I think it would be because things become so clear, and the reality of being old would hit hard. I think marijuana (and of course Orange Sunshine, et al) is for the young--and young at heart wouldn't cut it. But I wouldn't trade the memories for anything.
Nibor
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