![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Posted by Seamus2 on June 4, 2000, at 1:24:11
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Reserpine will do the trick -- for a day or two. But after it's done flooding the synapses my guess would be the REM stops.BTW, it's a good way to kickstart an MAOI. (Good way to end up in an ICU, too. Start the reserpine first!)
Seamus
Posted by SLS on June 4, 2000, at 8:52:59
In reply to Re: Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Seamus2 on June 4, 2000, at 1:24:11
> Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
No.
However, as far as antidepressants are concerned, Wellbutrin does increase REM sleep. I just don't know if it is potent enough to suit your needs.Centrally acting muscarinic pro-cholinergic drugs like pilocarpine increase REM. You probably already know this. This is the only thing I can think of that might be powerful enough to be of any use. What about drugs like Cognex or Aricept? All of these drugs may cause depression is some cases, but I don't know how frequently.
What sorts of things have been suggested by your doctors? Why do you need to promote REM sleep? What effects does your condition produce?
---------------------------
Seamus - What do you know about the use of reserpine in treating refractory depression? I see that you mentioned MAOIs. I know it has been used with tricyclics in the past. What is the procedure for doing this? What is its success rate in treatment-resistant cases?Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Rach on June 4, 2000, at 9:08:12
In reply to Re: Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by SLS on June 4, 2000, at 8:52:59
> > Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Hi Jennifer,Using sleeping tablets changes a person's sleeping patterns, including the time spent in REM sleep. I have learnt that initially, sleeping tablets will reduce the amount of REM sleep, especially during the first half of the night. Gradual adaptation to the drugs will led to a normal (for you) REM pattern. Then sudden withdrawal of sleeping tablets often results in an intense REM sleep rebound.
I'm not suggesting you should necessarily start taking sleeping pills to induce withdrawal symptoms, because I'm not entirely sure how good for you health it will ultimately be. It would most likely be very harmful to you. I am just giving you some information for you to think about and discuss with others.
I hope you can sleep better,
Rach
Posted by Noa on June 4, 2000, at 14:07:23
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
Jen, I think the REM deficiency is probably a direct result of the apnea, and when you address the apnea, you will improve your REM sleep.
Posted by Orin on June 4, 2000, at 22:55:06
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
Jennifer:
Sounds like you need some decent sleep, with or without extended REM. A low dose of remeron makes a darn powerful sedative (its an antihistamine, really). Within an hour of taking a dose, it very reliably extinguished any desire or ability I had for staying awake. Not sure how remeron would affect your apnea. Ask the doc.
Posted by Cindy W on June 4, 2000, at 23:16:01
In reply to Re: Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Orin on June 4, 2000, at 22:55:06
> Jennifer:
>
> Sounds like you need some decent sleep, with or without extended REM. A low dose of remeron makes a darn powerful sedative (its an antihistamine, really). Within an hour of taking a dose, it very reliably extinguished any desire or ability I had for staying awake. Not sure how remeron would affect your apnea. Ask the doc.Jennifer, I suspect Noa's right, that you would sleep better once the apnea is dealt with. Also, the other above suggestions might work; talk with your doctor though before you mix any antidepressants. In my experience, Serzone helps me sleep much better; so do kava kava and melatonin. Hope you have sweet dreams soon!--Cindy W
Posted by Jennifer on June 5, 2000, at 5:40:51
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm going to run by some of the suggestions with my MD. Also working on solving the apnea problem, which will correct quite a bit of it. I think it will just take awhile to "retrain" myself to sleep well.
> Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Posted by Noa on June 5, 2000, at 9:34:42
In reply to Re: Little REM -great ideas - thanks, posted by Jennifer on June 5, 2000, at 5:40:51
Once I started the cpap, it was amazing!! For the first time in years, I slept the whole night without getting up to go to the bathroom, having reflux, waking up with a headache, etc. It was just wonderful.
Posted by SLS on June 5, 2000, at 10:21:35
In reply to Re: Little REM -great ideas - thanks, posted by Noa on June 5, 2000, at 9:34:42
> Once I started the cpap, it was amazing!! For the first time in years, I slept the whole night without getting up to go to the bathroom, having reflux, waking up with a headache, etc. It was just wonderful.
What's cpap?
- Scott
Posted by Sara T on June 5, 2000, at 12:35:05
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
> Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Jennifer,
I don't know if this will apply to you since I don't know how old you are. I have been having sleep problems also, and I realized that the problem was hormonal. I'm estrogen deficient and once I started birth control pills (as HRT) I started sleeping again. My husband complains about my snoring, but I don't believe I have any sleep apnea. However, I do know that weight gain and age (hormones) again, can play a part in both sleep apnea and snoring.There are some good sleep sites on the web.
Sara T
Posted by Dave A on June 5, 2000, at 15:43:43
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
> Hey everyone, if any of you know of ways to increase REM sleep, I would love to hear your suggestions. I have some further Dr. visits to finish up with, but as for now, I have apnea 9 times an hour which wakes my brain up. We're are working on fixing that, but it may take the rest of this year to control. What I did find out, is that I have only 15 minutes of REM sleep a night, usually between 5 & 6 am. I'm often up late, and sleep little because I don't feel very different whether I sleep or not. Does anyone know of any brilliant ways to increase REM sleep?? Thanks, Jennifer
Hi Jennifer,When I take Valium or other BZ's during the day,
it usually makes me dream alot when I sleep.Dave
Posted by Jennifer on June 6, 2000, at 2:35:39
In reply to Re: Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Sara T on June 5, 2000, at 12:35:05
Thanks Sara...I checked into the estrogen idea, but I was psychotic on it. I'm also about 12 years younger than my mom was at menopause. As far as YOUR snoring though, that's what I thought! Snoring - even more so if it is in all positions is a sound produced by your airway when it is so collapsed that the sides are touching. As your body relaxes, you stop breathing & your brain has to wake up to make you take a breath. Apparently your brain can be awake for 10 seconds without you actually waking up. When I had my sleep test, I stayed up all night the night before to ensure that I would sleep. During the test, I never woke up once, despite 75 apneic episodes during the night! If you ever have any sleep difficulties in the future, you might want to check it out! Jennifer
>
> Jennifer,
> I don't know if this will apply to you since I don't know how old you are. I have been having sleep problems also, and I realized that the problem was hormonal. I'm estrogen deficient and once I started birth control pills (as HRT) I started sleeping again. My husband complains about my snoring, but I don't believe I have any sleep apnea. However, I do know that weight gain and age (hormones) again, can play a part in both sleep apnea and snoring.
>
> There are some good sleep sites on the web.
>
> Sara T
Posted by Jennifer on June 6, 2000, at 2:41:04
In reply to Re: Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Dave A on June 5, 2000, at 15:43:43
Dave & SLS - Very efficient of me to answer both of you in one reply huh? CPAP is Consistant Positive Airway Pressure. My husband actually used to design these little buggers. It's a nose piece and an "air pump" basically that maintains positive pressure on your airway to keep it from collapsing. As far as the Valium and other BZ's, they make me sleepy, but the added sedative effect causes even more relaxation of the airway, which means more apnea, and then LESS sleep. Great idea though...wish it would work! Thanks again..Jennifer
>
>
> Hi Jennifer,
>
> When I take Valium or other BZ's during the day,
> it usually makes me dream alot when I sleep.
>
> Dave
Posted by Tina1 on June 8, 2000, at 12:25:29
In reply to Re: Little REM -to Dave SLS, posted by Jennifer on June 6, 2000, at 2:41:04
I've been on the new meds for 2 days and I've had really weird dreams. My new med is moclobemide, I also take Klonopin. I haven't had dreams that I can remember in years and now I have more than one that I can remember vividly. I like it. No nightmares as yet--knock on wood--so I guess I'm asking if anyone else has had midnight moclobemide mini-movies?
Dave & SLS - Very efficient of me to answer both of you in one reply huh? CPAP is Consistant Positive Airway Pressure. My husband actually used to design these little buggers. It's a nose piece and an "air pump" basically that maintains positive pressure on your airway to keep it from collapsing. As far as the Valium and other BZ's, they make me sleepy, but the added sedative effect causes even more relaxation of the airway, which means more apnea, and then LESS sleep. Great idea though...wish it would work! Thanks again..Jennifer
> >
> >
> > Hi Jennifer,
> >
> > When I take Valium or other BZ's during the day,
> > it usually makes me dream alot when I sleep.
> >
> > Dave
Posted by shar on June 9, 2000, at 11:55:56
In reply to Little REM sleep, ideas anyone?, posted by Jennifer on June 4, 2000, at 0:40:21
I don't know about apnea, but I know about "restless leg syndrome" which can also disturb REM. I was prescribed Klonopin (1 to 1.5 mg) to sleep and the RLS subsided.
At one point I was given Ambien and had the most awful and bizarre dreams I've ever had; woke up terrified and shaking.
Before Klonopin, I also used to use hydroxyzine pamoate (Vistaril) but I seemed to develop a quick tolerance to that. I still use it when I am climbing the walls anxious.
I take Effexor and Wellbutrin for a/d.
Also, PremPro for HRT, but that has only been recently, and hasn't had an effect on my sleep. I take it with the Klonopin in the pm.
As others have said, once you can deal with the apnea (which may not respond to any of the things I've mentioned) you'll probably be sleeping like a baby!
Good luck!
S
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.