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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
My eight year old was diagnosed on thursday. He is now on 250 Depakote 2x a day. He is having headaches. I am hoping they will go away. My 16 year old is going to be evaluated. He considers himself to be bipolar. He is also diabetic and has been diagnosed with depression and is on Paxil 20 mg a day. He says he is afraid of losing the mania ( and, thus, his creativity). My 3 1/2 year old , who is a fraternal twin, has been a concern also and I have no doubt he has bipolar. His pre-school teacher asked me yesterday if he had ADHD and I said that I thought it was bipolar and she said it would explain the wild mood swings she has seen with him extremely hyper on one end and then angry and withdrawn on the other end . How soon do they treat bipolar in children and with what means and in what way is it diagnosed? His behavior is parallel that of his other brothers that have been diagnosed with or show signs of bipolar. I also have bipolar I with rapid cyclying. I am on tegretol , topamax, serequel and klonopin ( prn) I have also been on remeron but am trying to get off of it . Is bipolar more common in boys? How do I effectively parent these children and not slight the other children I have ( 6 other). Thanks for your input.
Posted by DC on April 2, 2000, at 1:15:39
In reply to Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
I think you should exhaust all options before placing a child on any kind psychoactive drug. I would only use drugs as a last resort. While your sixteen your old is old enough to make his own decision, I don't think your eight year old or 3 year old are! I have taken ADs, stimulants, antianxiety drugs, depakote, neurontin, but I am old enough and desperate enough to risk trying them. But do you want to put your kid on something that could permanently alter his brain chemistry? shouldn't that be his decision?
Posted by ChrisK on April 2, 2000, at 6:44:14
In reply to Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
There have been a lot of studies recently about treating juveniles with "adult" meds and they have almost unanimously come out to say that all other options should be exhausted before medication.
The first thing that comes to mind is diet. There are a number of websites that talk about bipolar and ADHD and how they are affected by a chil's diet. It's a simple thing to change and may help some of the symptoms.
Posted by KarenK on April 3, 2000, at 8:32:37
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by ChrisK on April 2, 2000, at 6:44:14
I have a 16 year old son that was diagnosed with bipolar. Before we went thru the maze of ADD, ADHD, depression, OCD. I have only put my son on meds off and on when his life became unmanageable. My ex-husband died when my son was 14. He was a substance abuser who was diagnosed over and over again as bipolar. I am a recovering alcoholic with GAD. My son had been going thru the drug gambit for the last 2 years.. depakote, neurontin, risperdal, seroquel, zyprexa, and finally lamictal which he tried this weekend and discontinued. I am at loose ends. He is at a small special ed school and yet he is still failing several subjects and has gained a 60 lbs. This is a kid who got straight A's until the loss of his father. Don't get me wrong. There were always social problems. His paternal uncles and grandparents have been very supportive. But sadly, sometimes medication is needed. It does feel like the search for the Holy Grail. I don't have any answers but my heart goes out to you.
Posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 23:33:08
In reply to Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
Cynthia,
(((hugs)))) sigh....If you can get a hold of it, Dr. Steven L Dubovsky's book "Mind-Body Deceptions: The Psychsomatics of Everyday Life," has an excellent discussion differentiating ADHD/ADD and bipolar. He also shares some thoughts on treating children. He is the leading psychopharmacologist in the Rocky Mountain Region of the US. The book is out of print, but your local library may have it. If all of us Babblers demanded it, perhaps we could get another printing. One review has said that for the intelligent layman that this is the most useful book available on contemporary psychiatry. Dr. D. answers a lot of the questions that are asked on this list in this book. Obviously, he doesn't answer some of your really hard ones, as he's not God.
You've probably seen some of the mention of Omega Threes, or essential fatty acids here. I'd be tempted to heavily supplement the whole family. I put flax seed on my cereal and keep Salmon oil by my water cooler. The amounts of EPA and DHA that were found to be successful in stabilizing bipolar in the Massachusetts General study were huge - 6.2 and 3.4 grams respectively. Taking 20 - 25 capsules a day is a bit of a challenge. The abstract on that study can be found on medline or wherever you look for such. I wish you well.
Chris A.
Posted by Cynthia on April 4, 2000, at 13:28:57
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 23:33:08
Thank you all so much for your input. It scares me so much to have any child on a psychiatric drug . But in the same line of thinking. I f we are to accept the Insulin/diabetes comparison with ourselves and our medications when does it change with our children. Has anyone read the book by Danielle Steel about her son? He started having real problems (as far as academicaly/socially) by sixth seventh grade. This affords me a very small window of opportunity to offer my son a respite from the constant turmoil that he (and we ) are faced with as a result of this disorder. I can honestly say that if I had been given the chance to be controlled now and have been put on medication when I was eight years old I would have taken the chance. It would have ( maybe, I know) saved me many episodes of anguish. I would give almost anything , at this point, to sleep like a regular person. I have always felt it is my resposibility as a parent to do everything in my power to make sure that my children are not suffering, whether it be from hunger or cold or bipolar disorder. My child is suffering. My other children are also suffering as a result. I have been exhausting every possibility I have been able to find . I think the one thing I miss most , especially as a mental patient , is losing control.I don't want my kids to have to feel this way. I am sorry. I don't know if I am making any sense at all. I am at a loss. I guess I just need some support and there isn't a lot of help available here. I am , right now, on day five of a really bad manic episode, my thinking is muddled and i am shaky. I am not sleeping and I can't eat. You truly get to the point where you will do anything to sleep. But I really don't
want to talk about me. Have any of you been to www.bpkids.org ? this is a great site and it seems to have a lot of info too on early onset bipolar. I am getting a lot of conflicting advice and I really don't know what to believe.
Posted by Chris A. on April 4, 2000, at 20:52:05
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 4, 2000, at 13:28:57
Cynthia,
You are thinking clearly. Bipolar kids need mood stabilizers early. It's the overuse of antidepressants and stimulants in kids that may be a problem, since they can potentially make those with bipolar sicker (perpetuate cycling), especially kids. Do you have access to a child psychiatry department at a medical school? If you like the doc the eight year old is seeing can you get the others in for evaluations with him or her?
Please take care of yourself - that's the best thing you can do for your family. I have been trying to keep the lid on escalating mixed rapid-cycling, so empathize with you. One doc suggested a rule that helps - to always be in bed by midnight (which is very hard to do). Last night when the Ambien wore off I got up and took another dose. It's not a time to skimp on sleep meds. It took me a long time to realize that there are just sometimes that I have to make sleep a number one priority or my family and I will all suffer more.
You're going to get all sorts of conflicting and sometimes harmful advice on the net. If you're not sure about something and are thinking of implementing it, run it by a professional that you trust. Look up the latest medical abstracts on the subject on medline. Many of us here are ill. I am transitioning into maintenance ECT, so if I don't sound all here, I'm not.
Just a thought - a pediatrician friend's son just had a vagal nerve stimulator implanted last week to treat his treat refractory epilepsy. They've been treating his seizures ever since the first one. There are striking similarities here. Most of the anticonvulsants he's taken, I've tried. They wouldn't have considered not treating him. Bipolar is just as serious. Why should it be any differrent?Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by Cynthia on April 5, 2000, at 10:22:59
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by Chris A. on April 4, 2000, at 20:52:05
Chris A- Thanks so much for your positive support.-- You are making a lot of sense. I do trust the pdoc that is seeing my son and she will be evaluating the other two. I know how important it is for me to be ok. I am going in today to see her and re evaluate my med plan and get something for sleep ( nothing I have has been working) I hope things go well with you and your treatment . You have a kind soul. /Thank You for realizing how scared I have been and giving me the reassurance that I have needed . I just want to do everything I can to save my kids from this Hell I am "living". Thanks again-Cyndy
Posted by Kate on April 5, 2000, at 22:25:30
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family-Chris A., posted by Cynthia on April 5, 2000, at 10:22:59
There's a good show on Bipolar Children that was on a radio program on psychology/psychiatry called "The Infinite Mind" (you can listen to with RealPlayer).
http://www.theinfinitemind.com/mindprgm.htm
It talks about differentiating bipolar from add, treatment etc.
Posted by JanetR on April 7, 2000, at 20:38:27
In reply to Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
> My eight year old was diagnosed on thursday. He is now on 250 Depakote 2x a day. He is having headaches. I am hoping they will go away. My 16 year old is going to be evaluated. He considers himself to be bipolar. He is also diabetic and has been diagnosed with depression and is on Paxil 20 mg a day. He says he is afraid of losing the mania ( and, thus, his creativity). My 3 1/2 year old , who is a fraternal twin, has been a concern also and I have no doubt he has bipolar. His pre-school teacher asked me yesterday if he had ADHD and I said that I thought it was bipolar and she said it would explain the wild mood swings she has seen with him extremely hyper on one end and then angry and withdrawn on the other end . How soon do they treat bipolar in children and with what means and in what way is it diagnosed? His behavior is parallel that of his other brothers that have been diagnosed with or show signs of bipolar. I also have bipolar I with rapid cyclying. I am on tegretol , topamax, serequel and klonopin ( prn) I have also been on remeron but am trying to get off of it . Is bipolar more common in boys? How do I effectively parent these children and not slight the other children I have ( 6 other). Thanks for your input.
I can't help much . I just want to express my admiration for your courage and unselfishness . Good Luck ! You are in my prayers . Jan
Posted by Michele on April 7, 2000, at 20:58:13
In reply to Bipolar Family, posted by Cynthia on April 1, 2000, at 10:41:51
I have a step son that is 11 that is bi-polar and a step son that is 8 that is ADHD. I'm going nuts. I wish there was a handbook that could tell you how to handle children like this. We have the ADHD child on medication, but the bi-polar child does not want medication. He thinks that he knows how to handle it himself. He is wrong, of course. How do I talk him into going for help. I'm at my wits end.
Please someone give me some kind of input!!!
Posted by saint james on April 8, 2000, at 12:12:21
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by DC on April 2, 2000, at 1:15:39
But do you want to put your kid on something that could permanently alter his brain chemistry? shouldn't that be his decision?
James here...
There is no proof of the above statement. Lets stick to the facts and not try to scare anyone. Adults make decisions for kids every day because
they do not have the wisdom, perspective, or information to do so themselves.j
Posted by Cam W. on April 8, 2000, at 21:42:36
In reply to Re: Bipolar Family, posted by saint james on April 8, 2000, at 12:12:21
While surfing, I found some interesting stuff on children and psychotropic medication on the NIMH website.www.nimh.nih.gov
Check the first story on the left-hand side of the page (many articles and Q & A) and click the link "Children and psychotropic medications". - Cam W.
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