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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gloria on April 3, 2000, at 13:19:12
These mood swings I read about in different posts sound a little like what I go thru on antidepressants. When I first started taking them I would quit within a couple of days due to a sort of hypemania. I due suffer from panic disorder. Then I tried Celexa and although I could tolerate better than the rest I eventually ended up very depressed after the 2nd month. The first 2 months I felt happy,peaceful then the 3rd month I went downhill. Whether this was due to the weight gain and being tired all the time or if the drug itself. What would be indicators of needing a mood stabilizer and what should I tell my Pdoc about this? I am currently just taking BuSpar which is calming but not sedating to the point I want to quit it. The doc wants to start me on Zoloft in a week along with the BuSpar. I swore I would never take an AD again due to the depression I felt on them. Any advice? Can you still have panic disorder and mood disorder too? What would a good mood stabilizer be for someone who doesn't want to gain anymore weight. Are they worse for weight gain than antidepressants? Thanks Gloria
Posted by lizzie on April 3, 2000, at 14:31:26
In reply to Need For Mood Stabilizer?, posted by gloria on April 3, 2000, at 13:19:12
Zoloft made me hypomanic (even w/ klonopin)
good news is that it stopped my depression.
Now i am on neurontin and klonopin and no
zoloft(which is this week's experiment) but
the dose i was on was small enough that i questioned
why i was even on it.But I feel good-not depressed not anxious, sleeping good
Kinda wondering why I am in therapy...
Posted by Noa on April 3, 2000, at 17:14:46
In reply to Re: Need For Mood Stabilizer?, posted by lizzie on April 3, 2000, at 14:31:26
I am at the point that I have to begrudgingly admit that the lithium (that I am now down to 600 mg of) might have been working *somewhat*, because I am in a funk you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. As some of you know, I started lithium in December, felt gradual improvement until mid-February, then started to feel worse, with a lot of physical symptoms, like exhaustion and fatigue, and cognitive symptoms like feeling my brain was stuffed with cotton. It turned out the lithium was worsening my hypothyroid, so we increased my thyroid meds. After that, I felt some intermittent improvements in the physical symptoms, and occasionally even in the mood symptoms. Then, I felt I had had enough of the frustrating side effects of the lithium, and felt that it was undermining my thyroid treatment, which is crucial for my depression treatment, so I decided to taper off of it. My doc oked it (eventually, see archives for my complaints about not being able to reach him) and I have been lowering it by 300 mg per week. I am at 600 mg now and geez, I hate to acknowledge that there might be a connection between going off of the lithium and getting even more depressed. I spent the whole weekend cooped up in my godawfully filthy and gross apartment, totally withdrawn from people. I feel like I don't know how I will go on, going to work every day, like I am just about depleted. I am considering hospitalization. Anyway, as for the mood stabilizer, which is the subject here, I think it is a fair conclusion to draw that a mood stabilizer is the way to go with me (in addition to my ADs), but I HATE lithium. HATE it. Get that? HATE it. And I am starting to HATE the effexor, because I think the two are the reason for these nasty urinary problems. The lithium makes me go ALL THE TIME, and the effexor makes it HARD TO HOLD IT IN. What a combo, wouldn't you say?
So what is next? What mood stabilizers do you all like? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? What you y'all think about me switching to Wellbutrin SR instead of Effexor XR? My only experience with wellbutrin was that I started on it(regular) in combo with effexor (regular) a few years back and developed tinnitus. Do you think I would develop tinnitus on wellbutrin without the effexor?
BTW, I am meeting with another pdoc this Friday, for a consult, or possibly to switch. We'll see.
Posted by harry b. on April 3, 2000, at 21:12:18
In reply to Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by Noa on April 3, 2000, at 17:14:46
Noa,
Sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly. Let us
know if you do go to the hospital.I'm currently taking Serzone (tapering), Klonopin,
Effexor, and Lithium. I don't like the Effexor
and I don't care much for the Lithium either.The Lithium seems to cause me to urinate more often,
which isn't too bad except for waking me once or
twice a night. The Effexor sucks. It has caused
great difficulties in being able to urinate. I will
feel an urgent need but the Effexor won't let the
flow begin. I've begun taking Saw Palmetto, which
is an herbal remedy for enlarged prostate. It seems
to be helping some.The other negative side effects of Effexor are
inability to achieve orgasm, and constipation. I
saw my pdoc yesterday. He asked me to give it one
more week. I will, but next week I want a change.Take care
Posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 23:53:35
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers To Noa, posted by harry b. on April 3, 2000, at 21:12:18
Noa,
Please get better. Depression is suffering, and I don't like to read that you're in so much pain. Have you ever tried lamotrigene? Just a shot in the dark.Blessings,
Chris A.
Posted by Noa on April 4, 2000, at 9:23:59
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers To Noa, posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 23:53:35
> Have you ever tried lamotrigene?This is Lamictal, yes?
No, I haven't taken it, but my pdoc has talked about it as a next step. I worry about how slowly you have to taper up to therapeutic dose, and about hair loss, as described here on this board. Are you taking it? Do you like it? What are its plusses and minuses, as far as you see it? Thanks.
Posted by dove on April 4, 2000, at 9:46:20
In reply to Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by Noa on April 3, 2000, at 17:14:46
To Noa, I miss you! My thoughts have been with you as are my prayers, especially with regard to the p-doc appointment this friday. I am sending good vibes your way, this doctor better give you the time of day, you need change, and the good kind at that!
The switch to Wellbutrin SR may be a very good idea, without the Effexor SR of course. Wellbutrin's shorter half-life should enable you to dismiss it quickly should the tinnitus become an issue.
For the ADs, what about something with a little more OOmmph! behind it, like a MAOI, or something akin to Reboxitine? Something stimulating rather than soothing so to speak. And make sure you're getting good sleep. You cannot fight depression on three-four hours of sleep per night, you just don't have the reserves.
Topiramate (Topamax) as a mood stabilizer may be an option, one of the few that holds weight-loss as a possible side-effect. I believe topiramate's safety is quite good also.
Lamotrigine is detailed on Dr. Ivan's site as having good antidepressant effects. I think this one is suppose to have more AD effects than the other mood-stabilizers. Is this the one with good libido effects, someone? If it is, then would it have effects similar to the augmenting effects of Stimulants (Ritalin, Adderall), Bupropion, and Pinadol (spelling?)which might prove useful to your symptoms.
The older ones like Tegretol, valproic acid have more side-effects supposedly, sometimes I wonder if they've just been around longer and that's why they are considered dirtier than the newer ones. I hated Tegretol, but it seems to help many others in need of a stabilizer. It numbed my brain, my body and my emotions, pretty negative, but as always YMMV.
Please keep us updated, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
dove
Posted by Chris A. on April 4, 2000, at 11:06:09
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers To Noa, posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 23:53:35
Noa,
I took lamotrigene (Lamictal) at least two years without side effects. Dubovsky did question whether it might not help my mood when in mixed states, as meds with AD properties tend to make it worse. I quit taking it to start ECT. When in a pure depressive state, it is still at the top of my list along with deprenyl. One in three thousand adults develop the serious necrotic rash. The risk is much higher in children. I wouldn't argue with the slow titration one bit. There is no mention in the 2000 PDR of complaints of alopecia, and they do have to list everything that's been remotely reported, whether there is any indication of of causal relationship or not. From what you had shared about yourself, it seemed to me that it would be a good one to try. If if makes you feel any better, I I Didn't care for Lithium either, although it's probably helped more people that any other psychotropic med ever.The first I'd heard of hair loss on Lamictal was from Amanda on this list. Please don't let the fear factor deprive you of trying what is a good solid med.Godspeed,
Chris A.
Posted by Noa on April 4, 2000, at 12:24:55
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by dove on April 4, 2000, at 9:46:20
> To Noa, I miss you
Thanks, Dove. I know I haven't been by as much, as I still am not connected at home (I don't mind not being connected, actually). I lurk a lot more, and write less often than I used to.Thanks for the info and encouragement, Dove, Chris, Harry.
More input on mood stabilizers welcome.
Posted by Janice on April 4, 2000, at 17:07:10
In reply to Need For Mood Stabilizer?, posted by gloria on April 3, 2000, at 13:19:12
Dear Gloria,
Although some medications are known to cause weight gain, there is no way to determine which pills will and won't cause weight gain on any particular person.
being fat is depressing.
The good news is that I've been on many medications that were supposed to cause weight gain, and didn't.
Each pill is different...each person is different.
Good luck, Janice
Posted by Janice on April 4, 2000, at 17:11:30
In reply to Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by Noa on April 3, 2000, at 17:14:46
Hi Noa,
Sorry to hear you are going through this very unsettling time. You actually sound as bad as I've ever heard you sound. I hope things go well Friday.
can I do anything to help you?
Janice
Posted by Amanda S on April 4, 2000, at 19:54:49
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by dove on April 4, 2000, at 9:46:20
Noa, I am just tapering off the lamigotrine(lamictal)because of my hairloss. Giving it a month to see if it is actually causing the hairloss. I have been taking it since July 1999 and it has been an excellent med for me. I was only on 100mg. Needed to be on a higher dose,but felt good even at 100mg. I have tried every mood stabilizer that my pdoc knows about and none of them worked for me except lamictal, hate having to get off of it. Being a female at 37 and losing my hair is just not worth it. The lamictal made me feel great and yes it had an AD effect. No major side effects except headaches in the beginning, however as your doctor will explain it will have to be taken very slowly, because of the johnson-stevenson syndrome (bad rash that needs to be treated asap) Seems it only happens to kids more so than adults. If I find that my hair is still falling out after I have been off tha lamictal, I will go back on it. One other thing it does not interfere with your sex drive at all. YEA God Bless, Amanda
Posted by Amanda S on April 4, 2000, at 20:10:14
In reply to Re: Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by Noa on April 4, 2000, at 12:24:55
I did not mean to scare you away from lamictal because of the hairloss, it is a great mood stabilizer. I am getting off of it for awhile to see if it is the culprit. I have long curly thick brown hair and it has been very depressing for me. This does not happen to everyone, but I have read about other people who have had the same side effects. I understand our body chemistrys are all different and please try the lamictal. It is worth a shot.
Posted by Chris A. on April 4, 2000, at 21:11:05
In reply to To Kris and Noa, posted by Amanda S on April 4, 2000, at 20:10:14
Amanda,
When I referred to the "Lamictal scare," my brain was thinking about Stevens-Johnsons, but looking back at what I wrote it sounds like I'm blaming you. Your hair loss is unfortunate and I certainly hope you get it resolved along with finding a good doc and the right mood stabilizer. Sometimes my communication leaves a bit to be desired, and this was one of them. Please accept my apologies.Best,
Chris A.
Posted by Noa on April 5, 2000, at 7:50:40
In reply to Amanda, my apologies, posted by Chris A. on April 4, 2000, at 21:11:05
Amanda,
You might have already answered this, I don't remember........regarding the hair loss: have you had a good eval of your thyroid?
Posted by Amanda S on April 5, 2000, at 21:00:29
In reply to Re: Amanda, my apologies, posted by Noa on April 5, 2000, at 7:50:40
Noa, I received lab tests for thyroid, hormones,etc... at the cost of $800.00. I went to an endocrinologist and he ordered the tests for me and everything is fine, but I do need to tell you that I had my ovaries out at the age of 33, because of familial ovarian cancer. My mother died Nov.1998. I have been getting injections of minute doses of testosterone and estrogen. The endocrinologist thought the hormones were the problem so he cut my dose in half and increased the estrogen. I was told by this doctor that my hair would start growing back soon. It has been 4months and it has been getting worse. I have been getting these shots for 4 years and at a higher dose. Nothing like this ever happened. I began taking lamictal in June 1999 and started to notice my hair thinning in Sept. Actually, my children asked me if all that hair in the shower was mine. I still don't know yet. I am going to give it at least a month or two. Like I said not everyone has these side effects. Wish I could be more positive. I am sure your pdoc will tell you not to listen to all of these people with all these different side effects. Chances are it won't happen to you. I am very sensitive to all of these meds. Quite frankly, I am tired of trying all these mood stabilizers (anti-convulsants). My mother took them for her epilepsy. Her hair did not thin on lamictal. In fact, all of these meds didn't effect her hair at all. We are all completely different. My pdoc does not like me to get on this web site because I read all of these side effects that everyone has and I don't want to try the meds. I will keep you posted.
Posted by Morc on April 9, 2000, at 22:38:01
In reply to lamictal for Noa, posted by Amanda S on April 5, 2000, at 21:00:29
Noa:I'm on this one now, and it does seem to have an undeniable smoothing out effect for me, and has remarkably benign side-effects. I don't know much about others' experiences on it, however, and I am also taking a very low dose (50 mg/day).
Posted by BK on January 28, 2001, at 15:23:10
In reply to Favorite Mood Stabilizers?, posted by Noa on April 3, 2000, at 17:14:46
First time respondent so please bear with me. I tried just about every drug out there and only had success with Nardil, albeit short lived. At the time, it totally cured my depression, anxiety and tremendously improved my concentration and cognitive function. Unfortunately, it was short lived and its debatable whether it was no more than just a tease, but at least it showed me what it feels like to be "normal".
Anyway, I recently tired Lamictal. It was by no means a miracle drug,but it certainly helped my cognitive abilities. Unfortunately, I did experience some rather unpleasant side affects, namely a persistent sore throat and sleeplessness. I also had severe dandruff. In fact, it was from this site that I learned, or I hope anyway, that my consistent sore throat indeed be from the Lamictal.
So, here's what I would recommend based on my experiences. Give the lamictal a try. It worked rather quickly, despite the slow start-up dossage. Id say within a couple of weeks and I was at maximum dosage of 200mg. I ended up at a dosage of 100mg/day, which gave me the best response/side effect combination. If it doesn't work, fine you tried it and can eliminate it from your list. If it does work, you can still monitor any possible side effects and make a judgement later.
If all else fails try the Nardil. Be prepared that the response may be short lived. Also, there are dietary restriction that must be adhered to prevent serious and potentially deadly side effects. I’m going to try Adrafinal based on some of the comments I’ve read here. I’d also point out that on numerous occasions, I would experience a positive effect on a medication when I first started to go off of it. This would occur despite the fact that I experienced little or no benefits while on the medication. Perhaps you are experiencing the same type of phenomenon. Remember your are not alone. Good luck my friend.
This is the end of the thread.
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