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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
I recently had a horrendous experience with reboxetine (Edronax, Vestra).
It made my depression MUCH worse, and even put me into a state of suicidality. The only other drug that I have been taking is Lamictal 300mg. I experienced a mild worsening at 4 mg/day of reboxetine that included some anxiety, something that I usually don’t experience. After 7 days, my doctor raised the dosage to 8 mg/day. Within 48 hours, the anxiety increased and I was just about paralyzed with depression, not wanting to move a muscle. I just sat on a couch and stared at the floor. Thoughts of hopelessness and suicide filled my head. After 2 days, this stuff did not get any better, and I decided to discontinue the reboxetine. Within 48 hours of the last dose, I felt better.
Has anyone else experienced a worsening of depression while taking reboxetine?
If so, did this worsening disappear? Did you eventually respond to reboxetine?
I would appreciate any input. Thanks,
- Scott
Posted by AndrewB on April 4, 2000, at 15:00:24
In reply to Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
Scott,
I am so sorry to hear of your poor response with reboxetine. I was hoping you would fare better. Have you experienced depression, suicidal ruminations or anxiety on any other ADs such as tricyclics? stimulants? MAOIs? (Was parnate the only AD you’ve responded to so far?). As I think you know, most people don’t experience increased anxiety on reboxetine but some do experience this effect along with maybe feelings of agitation and irritability. Some people have dealt with such a general feeling of over stimulation by combining the reboxetine with an SSRI. Luke is a poster who is doing well on reboxetine but experienced serious (but different) side effects for a long time with reboxetine. He had to go down to 2mg./day and increase his dosage very slowly in order to tolerate reboxetine. Is your initial anxiety and increased depression with reboxetine only temporary or is would it remain? There was one poster on another board who had irritability and agitation with reboxetine that never went away.
But your depression, that is strange isn’t it. Sorry, I don’t have any solid advice for you. If I was in your shoes I would have a hard time trying to decide what to do next.
Here is a website where you can address your question to an expert. One specializes in the relationship between panic, anxiety and norepinephrine: http://www.horizonseries.com/faq.html
By the way sources of non-prescription amineptine and amisulpride have been located. Let me know if you need more info.
Best Wishes,
AndrewB
Posted by Ant-Rock on April 4, 2000, at 15:30:17
In reply to Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
> I recently had a horrendous experience with reboxetine (Edronax, Vestra).
>
> It made my depression MUCH worse, and even put me into a state of suicidality. The only other drug that I have been taking is Lamictal 300mg. I experienced a mild worsening at 4 mg/day of reboxetine that included some anxiety, something that I usually don’t experience. After 7 days, my doctor raised the dosage to 8 mg/day. Within 48 hours, the anxiety increased and I was just about paralyzed with depression, not wanting to move a muscle. I just sat on a couch and stared at the floor. Thoughts of hopelessness and suicide filled my head. After 2 days, this stuff did not get any better, and I decided to discontinue the reboxetine. Within 48 hours of the last dose, I felt better.
>
> Has anyone else experienced a worsening of depression while taking reboxetine?
>
> If so, did this worsening disappear? Did you eventually respond to reboxetine?
>
> I would appreciate any input. Thanks,
>
>
> - Scott`Hi Scott,
I truly am sorry to hear about your experience. I certainly can relate to having a horrible adverse reaction to a med., and it really can be tormenting. Myself I did not respond well to Reboxatine, felt a little agitated/irritable, but nothing like you describe.I really had high hopes for this med, but I guess one must move on. I know this doesn't answer your question, but just wanted to let you know you're not alone.
Hang in there Scott,
Anthony
Posted by Ant-Rock on April 4, 2000, at 15:38:42
In reply to Re: Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by AndrewB on April 4, 2000, at 15:00:24
> Scott,
>
> I am so sorry to hear of your poor response with reboxetine. I was hoping you would fare better. Have you experienced depression, suicidal ruminations or anxiety on any other ADs such as tricyclics? stimulants? MAOIs? (Was parnate the only AD you’ve responded to so far?). As I think you know, most people don’t experience increased anxiety on reboxetine but some do experience this effect along with maybe feelings of agitation and irritability. Some people have dealt with such a general feeling of over stimulation by combining the reboxetine with an SSRI. Luke is a poster who is doing well on reboxetine but experienced serious (but different) side effects for a long time with reboxetine. He had to go down to 2mg./day and increase his dosage very slowly in order to tolerate reboxetine. Is your initial anxiety and increased depression with reboxetine only temporary or is would it remain? There was one poster on another board who had irritability and agitation with reboxetine that never went away.
>
> But your depression, that is strange isn’t it. Sorry, I don’t have any solid advice for you. If I was in your shoes I would have a hard time trying to decide what to do next.
>
> Here is a website where you can address your question to an expert. One specializes in the relationship between panic, anxiety and norepinephrine: http://www.horizonseries.com/faq.html
>
> By the way sources of non-prescription amineptine and amisulpride have been located. Let me know if you need more info.
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> AndrewBHi Andrew,
Hope things are going well. I certainly would be interested in locating amineptine, since the one time I tried it I may have underdosed(overly cautious) and not given it a fair chance. Anyway I hope things are good on your end. For me, the battle continues.
Take care,
Anthony
Posted by AndrewB on April 4, 2000, at 16:00:36
In reply to Re: Can reboxetine ( to: Andrew), posted by Ant-Rock on April 4, 2000, at 15:38:42
Anthony,
Why don't you email me at andrewb@seanet.com for the amineptine info. and you can catch me up with how you are doing.
AndrewB
Posted by Janice on April 4, 2000, at 16:55:48
In reply to Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
hi Scott,
do you think this has anything to do with your rapid cycling? The TCAs are especially known to increase rapid cycling.
Janice
>
Posted by JohnL on April 5, 2000, at 3:05:50
In reply to Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
Scott,
Sorry to hear things were rough for you. But indeed Reboxetine--or any antidepressant--can actually worse depression.
We often think of depression in terms of deficient neurotransmitter levels. But the exact same symptoms of depression, anxiety, or pyschosis can be caused by EXCESS neurotransmitters. Excess NE can cause depression and/or anxiety. Excess dopamine can cause depression and/or psychosis and/or anxiety. Just a few examples. The awareness that excess is just as bad as deficient is an important concept I think.
I too have worsened on Reboxetine or Wellbutrin. Boosting NE levels for me does not appear to be a wise thing to do. I can dramactically increase the intensity of my depression very quickly this way. Longer term trials did not produce better results. I think the response noticed in the first week or two is pretty predictive of the direction response will go in a longer trial.
Strangely the NE med Desipramine--but not Nortriptyline--improved my depression. So there must be a lot more to the tricyclics than just NE reuptake. NE reuptake with Reboxetine or Wellbutrin worsened me badly, but NE reuptake with Desipramine improved me, while NE reuptake with Nortriptyline was neutral. Go figure. I think I like the tricyclics better, because one of them is bound to work. Reboxetine with its very limited mode of action will probably be of benefit in a limited number of patients. And for some of us--like you and me--Reboxetine can make things a lot worse.
Posted by AndrewB on April 5, 2000, at 13:04:47
In reply to Re: Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by JohnL on April 5, 2000, at 3:05:50
John,
Thank you for another very informative post. Did you experience any depression with Adrafinil or stimulants since both effect NE. By the way how has your trial with stim.s gone?
The reason you did not get depressed with the tricyclics even though they increase NE may lie in their ability to increase serotonin transmission. I did some research and apparently serotonergic agents such as SSRIs are able to inhibit the excitatory response of too much NE. The symptoms of too much NE can include increased heart rate, agitation, anxiety and obsessional thinking including suicidal ideation. I couldn’t find anything that refers to too much NE causing depression. Obviously your experience and Scott’s seems to indicate though that too much NE can indeed cause depression.
AndrewB
Posted by JohnL on April 6, 2000, at 2:40:51
In reply to Re: JohnL, posted by AndrewB on April 5, 2000, at 13:04:47
> John,
>
> Thank you for another very informative post. Did you experience any depression with Adrafinil or stimulants since both effect NE. By the way how has your trial with stim.s gone?
>
> The reason you did not get depressed with the tricyclics even though they increase NE may lie in their ability to increase serotonin transmission. I did some research and apparently serotonergic agents such as SSRIs are able to inhibit the excitatory response of too much NE. The symptoms of too much NE can include increased heart rate, agitation, anxiety and obsessional thinking including suicidal ideation. I couldn’t find anything that refers to too much NE causing depression. Obviously your experience and Scott’s seems to indicate though that too much NE can indeed cause depression.
>
> AndrewBAndrew,
Actually I did not experience any depression with stimulants or Adrafinil. It's almost as if stimulating NE is a good thing, but merely increasing levels of NE is a bad thing...with me anyway. It's almost as if my NE levels are OK, yet need a kick in the butt.
Nothing so far has had such a positive mood response as Ritalin. But it was so damn abusive for me. I find Adderall much smoother. It provides energy and physical boost, but no mood or mental boost. At this time I am nearing the end of week 1 in trying Adrafinil again. When I used it with Desipramine it was incredible...but also caused incredible impotence. I'm trying it solo now. It does not at all have the good effect as it did with Desipramine, but is friendly to my sex life. I plan on giving it 4 weeks before making any judgements, modifications, or additions. We'll see.
Posted by george o on April 7, 2000, at 0:32:16
In reply to Can reboxetine (Edronax) make depression worse?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 4, 2000, at 10:10:55
> I recently had a horrendous experience with reboxetine (Edronax, Vestra).
>
> It made my depression MUCH worse, and even put me into a state of suicidality. The only other drug that I have been taking is Lamictal 300mg. I experienced a mild worsening at 4 mg/day of reboxetine that included some anxiety, something that I usually don’t experience. After 7 days, my doctor raised the dosage to 8 mg/day. Within 48 hours, the anxiety increased and I was just about paralyzed with depression, not wanting to move a muscle. I just sat on a couch and stared at the floor. Thoughts of hopelessness and suicide filled my head. After 2 days, this stuff did not get any better, and I decided to discontinue the reboxetine. Within 48 hours of the last dose, I felt better.
>
> Has anyone else experienced a worsening of depression while taking reboxetine?
>
> If so, did this worsening disappear? Did you eventually respond to reboxetine?
>
> I would appreciate any input. Thanks,
>
>
> - ScottI think i posted this a long time ago, but reboxetine made me super depressed after a few days, it was so clearly the medicine causing it and i was fine a couple of days after going off it, who knows why? george
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 7, 2000, at 10:56:31
In reply to HELL YES!, posted by george o on April 7, 2000, at 0:32:16
> > I recently had a horrendous experience with reboxetine (Edronax, Vestra).
> >
> > It made my depression MUCH worse, and even put me into a state of suicidality. The only other drug that I have been taking is Lamictal 300mg. I experienced a mild worsening at 4 mg/day of reboxetine that included some anxiety, something that I usually don’t experience. After 7 days, my doctor raised the dosage to 8 mg/day. Within 48 hours, the anxiety increased and I was just about paralyzed with depression, not wanting to move a muscle. I just sat on a couch and stared at the floor. Thoughts of hopelessness and suicide filled my head. After 2 days, this stuff did not get any better, and I decided to discontinue the reboxetine. Within 48 hours of the last dose, I felt better.
> >
> > Has anyone else experienced a worsening of depression while taking reboxetine?
> >
> > If so, did this worsening disappear? Did you eventually respond to reboxetine?
> >
> > I would appreciate any input. Thanks,
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I think i posted this a long time ago, but reboxetine made me super depressed after a few days, it was so clearly the medicine causing it and i was fine a couple of days after going off it, who knows why? george
I really appreciate your important reply, George. Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Leighwit on April 7, 2000, at 14:45:24
In reply to Re: HELL YES!, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 7, 2000, at 10:56:31
> > > I recently had a horrendous experience with reboxetine (Edronax, Vestra).
> > >
> > > It made my depression MUCH worse, and even put me into a state of suicidality. The only other drug that I have been taking is Lamictal 300mg. I experienced a mild worsening at 4 mg/day of reboxetine that included some anxiety, something that I usually don’t experience. After 7 days, my doctor raised the dosage to 8 mg/day. Within 48 hours, the anxiety increased and I was just about paralyzed with depression, not wanting to move a muscle. I just sat on a couch and stared at the floor. Thoughts of hopelessness and suicide filled my head. After 2 days, this stuff did not get any better, and I decided to discontinue the reboxetine. Within 48 hours of the last dose, I felt better.
> > >
> > > Has anyone else experienced a worsening of depression while taking reboxetine?
> > >
> > > If so, did this worsening disappear? Did you eventually respond to reboxetine?
> > >
> > > I would appreciate any input. Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >I too had problems with Reboxetine and they were somewhat similar to yours. The anxiety was quite concerning to me and like you, I'm not prone to it. Depression symptoms such as lethargy and melancholy were worsening by the day on Reboxetine, and my main response seemed to be the addition of anxiety as a new problem.
It works for some people who haven't been helped by a lot of other ADs, though, so I want to make sure we don't preclude others from trying it. By the same token, Scott — you are not alone in your experience!
Laurie (Leighwit)
Posted by P on April 9, 2000, at 5:53:54
In reply to HELL YES!, posted by george o on April 7, 2000, at 0:32:16
I had the same thing happen to me! I was paralyzed too! I was a motor mouth sometimes and felt like I could do all these things but when it came to action--I was too anxious. Totally paranoid. Felt like I was falling when I was just sitting down--scary shit. It made me have slightly increased attention but then way too much--I could here too much and was very sensitive to it. I can't say enough about how bad it was. Just throw it away! Nasty stuff. Plus it makes sex impossible, people look more attractive but then there's no chance of decent sex! Talk about premature. I'd stick with coffee if I were you. You must be like me and have enough of the chemical bangin' away, which is good:)
One clue for me was the talkativity thing. I'm talkative, got no problems there. Edronax and other similar drugs just make you yappy. So if you're a smooth talka, you don't need it:)
PS it goes away after quitting. SAMe is much better, try that or listen to your doctor--he really should know.
This is the end of the thread.
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