![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by badfoot on March 12, 2000, at 20:37:36
I've been taking Ativan for years for insomnia and finally developed a tolerance. My Pdoc prescribed Ambien, which left me sedated and depressed for the entire next day. Any experiences? Suggestions. I need a long acting med. because I have severe stomach discomfort (Irritable Bowel) most of the night. thanks.
Posted by Elizabeth on March 13, 2000, at 0:11:42
In reply to Ambien, posted by badfoot on March 12, 2000, at 20:37:36
> I've been taking Ativan for years for insomnia and finally developed a tolerance. My Pdoc prescribed Ambien, which left me sedated and depressed for the entire next day. Any experiences? Suggestions. I need a long acting med. because I have severe stomach discomfort (Irritable Bowel) most of the night. thanks.
Ever try a tricyclic antidepressant, like doxepin or trimipramine? They are usually sedating and can calm down your gut as well. Remeron (mirtazapine) might do the same.
Posted by Mark H. on March 13, 2000, at 20:16:43
In reply to Re: Ambien, posted by Elizabeth on March 13, 2000, at 0:11:42
I'm always a bit surprised at how different we all are. Ambien lasts exactly six hours for me -- I'm dead to the world and then BOOM! it's worn off. I have noticed two things that make me cautious about using it: I am much more tired the next afternoon, like the type of sleep it gave me wasn't exactly what my body needed; and according to my wife, I flop around so violently that she can hardly sleep in the same bed with me when I take it. Sometime when we have nothing better to do on a Saturday night, we're going to videotape my flopping around on Ambien while asleep. Sue says I've fallen out of bed TWICE without knowing it.
I've suggested this before, but a GREAT alternative to Ativan and Ambien is clonazepam. I took .25 mg a night for an entire year, and I only had very mild side effects for about 36 hours when I went off of it. Take it about 45 minutes before you want to go to sleep. There's very little hangover, and it will give you a welcome break from Ativan without the hammered effect of Ambien. Save the Ambien for when you HAVE to sleep!
Posted by Elizabeth on March 15, 2000, at 2:46:19
In reply to Re: Ambien, posted by Mark H. on March 13, 2000, at 20:16:43
Mark says:
> I'm always a bit surprised at how different we all are. Ambien lasts exactly six hours for me -- I'm dead to the world and then BOOM! it's worn off.That would be perfect from where I'm standing -- it lasts only 4 hours for me! Believe it or not I've even heard some people complain of daytime drowsiness and low mood from Ambien! That's *nothing* like my experience of it.
A possibility, in your case, is that 6 hours isn't enough for you. You could try taking Sonata after you wake up.
The sleep movements are troubling. I'd love to find out what that videotape shows.
Clonazepam is cool because it's long-lasting.
and doesn't promote sleep movements.
Posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 0:06:25
In reply to Re: Ambien, individual differences, posted by Elizabeth on March 15, 2000, at 2:46:19
Dear Elizabeth,
You're the first person ever to take an interest in my particular, peculiar Periodic Limb Movement Disorder and its extreme exaggeration on Ambien.
Once or twice, I made the mistake of taking an Ambien while I was still on the computer in the evening, thinking I was going to go to bed in a couple of minutes. I got so out of it that I didn't know what I was doing (fortunately, bidding on eBay is fairly difficult when you're seeing TWO monitors in front of you and your fingers are no longer working properly). My wife apparently came down to get me, and she says I fell on my face going up the stairs on my way to bed, and then had a completely incoherent conversation with her -- she never could ascertain the topic.
My EXPERIENCE is that I lie down and sleep utterly peacefully and quietly on Ambien, as though I was so comfortable that I never even moved during the night. I'm usually a little tired the next afternoon, but otherwise it seems nearly perfect.
Wouldn't it freak them out in a sleep lab for me to spend the night on Ambien, wires and limbs flying everywhere? I wonder what my poor brain is doing while my consciousness is off in that peaceful, deep sleep?
Thank you for your interest.
Posted by Elizabeth on March 17, 2000, at 3:40:16
In reply to Thank You Elizabeth, posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 0:06:25
Mark,
I have a condition which involves movements in sleep. It's called REM sleep behavior disorder: I'm moving around during REM sleep, acting out whatever dream I might be having. The MAOIs do a pretty good job of suppressing this, fortunately.
My parents say I also used to sleepwalk (a non-REM parasomnia) sometimes when I was a kid.
Posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 4:21:10
In reply to Re: For what it's worth...., posted by Elizabeth on March 17, 2000, at 3:40:16
Elizabeth,
Me too. I've corresponded with several people or their spouses who have military or law enforcement background who are plagued with stressful nightly dreams and are striking or kicking out at would-be attackers or bad guys in their sleep. Thank goodness for clonazepam! One nurse in Washington had trouble with her husband kidney-punching her, thinking he was having difficulty handcuffing a combative suspect. Another man wrote to me to say he had awakened while choking his wife during a dream that he was back in the war. Clonazepam, self-hypnosis and spousal patience are the only things I know to suggest (well, separate beds in the choking case!). I appreciate your additional insights and experience. Do you experience any problems with apnea?
Posted by Victoria on March 20, 2000, at 19:54:34
In reply to Ambien, posted by badfoot on March 12, 2000, at 20:37:36
Maybe the problem is dose-related. I feel hung over on 10 mg., but do fine on 5 mg. I do need to get a full night's sleep when I take it, or I'm groggy the next day, so perhaps you need to sleep longer (especially if you have a recent sleep deficit).
> I've been taking Ativan for years for insomnia and finally developed a tolerance. My Pdoc prescribed Ambien, which left me sedated and depressed for the entire next day. Any experiences? Suggestions. I need a long acting med. because I have severe stomach discomfort (Irritable Bowel) most of the night. thanks.
Posted by FP on April 3, 2000, at 0:00:18
In reply to Re: Ambien, individual differences, posted by Elizabeth on March 15, 2000, at 2:46:19
10mg of ambian wouldn't put me to sleep; just gave me intense LSD like visions, combined with massive impairment of motor control. Very "Fear and Loathing" like, in a way.
Klonipin seems to work better, or Temazapam
Posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 12:14:19
In reply to Re: Ambien, individual differences, posted by FP on April 3, 2000, at 0:00:18
We're all so different. The average amount of shut eye Ambien blesses me with is six hours. It decreases when hypomanic symtoms are present. My doc thinks I like Ambien too much, so I try to back off and cut down whenever possible. Sometimes it's essential to my well being, though. There aren't many meds I'd fight for....but...!
Chris A.
Posted by jane on April 3, 2000, at 20:59:51
In reply to Re: Ambien - a lifesaver, posted by Chris A. on April 3, 2000, at 12:14:19
I just had my doc prescibe sonata to replace ambien to see it it would help me sleep better.
I haven't tried it because it is almost $3/pill! and not covered by HMO. Just wondered if anyone has tried it. jane
Posted by Victoria on April 3, 2000, at 21:38:54
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata, posted by jane on April 3, 2000, at 20:59:51
I tried Sonata briefly; it worked well for 5-6 hours, then I always woke up. I think it's especially good if your sleep problem is waking up too early rather than trouble getting to sleep, because you can take Sonata in the middle of the night and still be awake at a reasonable time. But I went back to Ambien because it keeps me asleep all night. To avoid dependence problems, my doctor has me on a 4-days on/4 days off schedule (which I admit I cheat on a little if I need to be sure of sleeping well on a particular "off" night). I also take trazadone at bedtime every night, which helps a lot on the "off" nights. Still, Ambien gives me the most restful "normal" sleep of anything I've ever tried.
> I just had my doc prescibe sonata to replace ambien to see it it would help me sleep better.
> I haven't tried it because it is almost $3/pill! and not covered by HMO. Just wondered if anyone has tried it. jane
Posted by Greg on April 4, 2000, at 10:43:27
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata, posted by Victoria on April 3, 2000, at 21:38:54
Victoria,
Are you talking dependence or addiction to the Ambien? I've taken Ambien for over a year for insomnia and stop it periodically just see if I can sleep well without it. My insomnia is still here, but I have no side effects from stopping the drug. I've been told that Ambien disapates completely from a person's system after 4 hours (depending on the dose, I take 10mgs) thereby eliminating the possibility of dependancy or addiction. Then again, I've been called naive once or twice too! I agree that Ambien is the best of the alternative sleeping aids.Greg
> I tried Sonata briefly; it worked well for 5-6 hours, then I always woke up. I think it's especially good if your sleep problem is waking up too early rather than trouble getting to sleep, because you can take Sonata in the middle of the night and still be awake at a reasonable time. But I went back to Ambien because it keeps me asleep all night. To avoid dependence problems, my doctor has me on a 4-days on/4 days off schedule (which I admit I cheat on a little if I need to be sure of sleeping well on a particular "off" night). I also take trazadone at bedtime every night, which helps a lot on the "off" nights. Still, Ambien gives me the most restful "normal" sleep of anything I've ever tried.
>
>
> > I just had my doc prescibe sonata to replace ambien to see it it would help me sleep better.
> > I haven't tried it because it is almost $3/pill! and not covered by HMO. Just wondered if anyone has tried it. jane
Posted by jane on April 4, 2000, at 16:21:50
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata - Victoria, posted by Greg on April 4, 2000, at 10:43:27
Thanks for the input and help.
I decided to stay on the ambienVictoria--you've helped me in the past-thank you
Posted by Victoria on April 4, 2000, at 21:23:55
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata - Victoria, posted by jane on April 4, 2000, at 16:21:50
Well, my doctor is concerned about some kind of dependence, also says an on/off schedule works better. Personally, I can't even imagine what addiction or even dependence would be like. I don't get any kick or high, I just go to sleep, and I don't have any physical symptoms on my "off" days (except not sleeping as well). I've had no tolerence develop; I'm taking the same dose I started with.
Thanks for the kind words, Jane. They make my day.
> Thanks for the input and help.
> I decided to stay on the ambien
>
> Victoria--you've helped me in the past-thank you
Posted by Elizabeth on April 4, 2000, at 22:50:23
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata - Victoria, posted by Victoria on April 4, 2000, at 21:23:55
> Well, my doctor is concerned about some kind of dependence, also says an on/off schedule works better.
I've tried taking it on and off, much as you describe. It actually didn't work very well. Taking it every day works better for me.
> Personally, I can't even imagine what addiction or even dependence would be like. I don't get any kick or high, I just go to sleep, and I don't have any physical symptoms on my "off" days (except not sleeping as well). I've had no tolerence develop; I'm taking the same dose I started with.
Me too. For whatever reason, I don't think people *get* addicted to Ambien, except maybe if they're abusing it very extensively.
Sweet dreams....
Posted by john bower on September 15, 2001, at 15:50:00
In reply to Re: Ambien - sonata - Victoria, posted by Elizabeth on April 4, 2000, at 22:50:23
How long can you take Ambien (or Sonata) without a tolerance developing and the dose being increased ?
I need it long-term and am worried that I might need higher and higher dosages of it like Klonopin or Ativan.
John
Posted by susan C on September 15, 2001, at 18:24:01
In reply to How long can you take Ambien/sonata ?, posted by john bower on September 15, 2001, at 15:50:00
Hi, My understanding is they both work in different ways and that milage may vary. All the paperwork I read says short term usage, but I keep checking with my pdoc and he says to keep using it if it works. I have heard of people who have a good effect, describing taking it as needed at 7mg up to 30mg every night. I have been using it for close to 10 months and expect to use it for some time. I am in such a spot of having tried so many things that did not or stopped working that ANYTHING that works for anything is wonderful. Especially something like Ambien that is out of my system quickly (sonota didn't keep me asleep). I slowly kept increasing until it worked (had a complete night's sleep) and the amount and effect haven't changed since. Maybe Cam has more information specific to the chemistry of everything. Good luck with your hunt.
mouzzzzzzzzzzzzze
Susan C
> How long can you take Ambien (or Sonata) without a tolerance developing and the dose being increased ?
>
> I need it long-term and am worried that I might need higher and higher dosages of it like Klonopin or Ativan.
>
> John
Posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 18:25:11
In reply to How long can you take Ambien/sonata ?, posted by john bower on September 15, 2001, at 15:50:00
> How long can you take Ambien (or Sonata) without a tolerance developing and the dose being increased ?
I don't know about Sonata. I took Ambien (20 mg) just about every night for somewhere between 1.5 and 2 years and it continued to work well. YMMV.
-elizabeth
Posted by paxvox on September 16, 2001, at 9:52:27
In reply to Re: How long can you take Ambien/sonata ? » john bower, posted by Elizabeth on September 15, 2001, at 18:25:11
I took Ambien for about two years with good results, but as soon as I went to a Pdoc, he said no no! I tried Sonata for a bit. It is ok, however, I have found it to potentiate panic attacks in me, so I backed off of it as a regular sleep aid. Also, it will put you to sleep, but you will wake early, as it has a very short half-life. Of the two, Ambien would be my choice for long-term therapy if you don't want (or can't get) benzos. Klonopin is ok, I take Tranzene. Not perfect, but it lets me get to sleep at least.
PAX
Posted by John Bower on September 16, 2001, at 11:15:29
In reply to Re: How long can you take Ambien/sonata ? » Elizabeth, posted by paxvox on September 16, 2001, at 9:52:27
It seems people have taken Ambien upto 2 years.
Has anyone taken it for more ?Thanks again
**
Posted by susan C on September 16, 2001, at 12:40:44
In reply to Thank You. , posted by John Bower on September 16, 2001, at 11:15:29
Posted by paxvox on September 17, 2001, at 9:57:47
In reply to It is new? (nm) » John Bower, posted by susan C on September 16, 2001, at 12:40:44
No, it's been around for at least 5 years.
PAX
Posted by Jane D on September 17, 2001, at 10:15:11
In reply to Re: How long can you take Ambien/sonata ? » Elizabeth, posted by paxvox on September 16, 2001, at 9:52:27
> I took Ambien for about two years with good results, but as soon as I went to a Pdoc, he said no no! I tried Sonata for a bit. It is ok, however, I have found it to potentiate panic attacks in me, so I backed off of it as a regular sleep aid. Also, it will put you to sleep, but you will wake early, as it has a very short half-life. Of the two, Ambien would be my choice for long-term therapy ...
Pax - I had a different experience. Ambien left me groggy the next morning. Sonata let me sleep well and wake up alert. I think it may have to do with the type of insomnia - initial insomnia where your main problem is falling asleep in the first place versus the type of insomnia where you wake up during the night. It also seems likely that different people metabolize the drugs at different rates.
-Jane
Posted by paxvox on September 17, 2001, at 13:44:50
In reply to Re: Ambien/Sonata - How long they last » paxvox, posted by Jane D on September 17, 2001, at 10:15:11
>
Very true, Jane. I have BOTH problems, though Tranzene has allowed me to be able to GET me to sleep, it has not allowed me to STAY alseep. I would probably do well if I took Sonata the first time I woke up at night, that would do the trick, but few docs like to let you take sleep aids chronically,as you may get addicted. Much better to have such a poor quality of life that one will self medicate, though I no longer do that.PAX
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.