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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 7, 2000, at 7:49:08
Hey JohnL, If you don't want to, it's okay. But, last I heard you were considering one of two additions to your treatment. One was a stimulant, can't remember the other. Anyway, I'd love to hear which you chose and how it's going.CarolAnn
Posted by JohnL on January 7, 2000, at 12:51:25
In reply to feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by CarolAnn on January 7, 2000, at 7:49:08
> Hey JohnL, If you don't want to, it's okay. But, last I heard you were considering one of two additions to your treatment. One was a stimulant, can't remember the other. Anyway, I'd love to hear which you chose and how it's going.CarolAnn
Sure. Thanks for asking CarolAnn. People in my house get all uneasy and weird when I talk drugs, so I have to be quiet. It's nice to come here and talk freely. And know that people listening can relate. I like that.
Anyway, currently taking Prozac+Zyprexa, and doing a short trial of Ritalin starting today. We just wanted to briefly explore the stimulant route before ruling it out, since that is an angle I have had no experience at all with. As I expected, I can already hear my tinnitus worsening with Ritalin. It looks doomed already. But I'll give it a week and see.
I only added Zyprexa a week ago, but I think I'm feeling a little better the last few days than I have in some time. I hate to say that, because I always jinx myself. Actually I was in real sorry shape a few weeks ago, so I guess I have made decent progress.
I still like Nortriptyline though, so I'm keeping that in mind still. If this tinnitus keeps up, I'll ditch the Ritalin and go back to Nortrip in a heatbeat. Funny thing though, the ONLY drug I've ever tried that completely silenced my tinnitus and improved my energy/mood simultaneously was Amisulpride (a European antipsychotic). But it's hard to get and certainly not covered by insurance. Zyprexa is similar, and that's why I'm trying it. I get the feeling the stimulant thing will just be a flash in the pan.
Nice to hear from you. I always enjoy your posts. JohnL
Posted by ChrisK on January 8, 2000, at 6:39:33
In reply to Re: feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by JohnL on January 7, 2000, at 12:51:25
John,
You and I are of the same mind. I take Nortrip and it has helped more than anything else. I also take Zyprexa (7.5 mg/day) and it has helped a lot. My pdoc told me that next month something called Zeldox will be released which will be very similar to Zyprexa but without most of the side effects.
We just started to explore the stimulant side two weeks ago and now I take a small dose of Adderall. So far, so good but I need to work with the dosage a little.
The combo I'm on now has gotten me through the holidays without resorting to Xanax. That was a major accomplishment.
Good Luck with your new regiment
Chris
Posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 7:46:51
In reply to Re: feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by JohnL on January 7, 2000, at 12:51:25
Hey again, just FYI, if you do give up on the ritalin, you may want to try Adderall. ritalin was *not* the thing for me, but I have found some improvement and *no* side effects from Adderall, as you know, your mileage may vary. All we can do is keep on keepin' on!CarolAnn
Posted by JohnL on January 10, 2000, at 15:49:16
In reply to Re: feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 7:46:51
After three days of Ritalin I am seriously abusing it and have just thrown it away. I called my pdoc to let him know.
On one hand it's good news. I now know that a dopamine agonist for me works great. Too great with Ritalin. The bad news is that I would (already am) abuse it seriously. To me it felt just like cocaine. The craving was intense and uncontrollable. The euphoria was awesome. Too awesome. Beyond euthymic. And about every two hours that feeling of crashing, despair, and panic would set in. The same feeling as when cocaine would wear off. And then I'ld go back for another dose twice the size of the one before. And the cycle would never end.
So I'm done with Ritalin. At least I know what class of drugs works with me, but I need something without the abuse potential and without the short halflife.
Comments on Adderall? Bromocriptine? Amantadine? I think Adderall is probably the logical choice, but I am hoping for some feedback. I found Ritalin to be addicting, abusive, and euphoric. Is Adderall like that too?
Thanks. Johnl
Posted by Noa on January 10, 2000, at 17:35:26
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by JohnL on January 10, 2000, at 15:49:16
I have found the sustained release ritalin much better than the regular. I am not prone to abusing it, but I did feel predictable crashes as it wore off at points during the day. With the SR, I feel much more even. The second dose wears off in the evening, when I am settling in/down anyway.
Posted by Janice on January 10, 2000, at 18:26:23
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by JohnL on January 10, 2000, at 15:49:16
JohnL,I'm so happy you're on the right track. You may have the nonhyper type of ADD that manifests itself so similarly to depression.
Dexedrine also has a long acting version of a stimulant. I take one long acting one and then 2 short acting ones throughout the day.
Initially, this medication gave me experiences similar to what you describe. But quickly (within a month or so), my body stopped getting these euyphoric (excuse spelling) feelings. I started at 5mg and am now at 25mg a day. It works great, and has dramatically affected almost every single aspect of my life.
How badly were you abusing the short acting ones? I remember from your previous postings that you are extremely sensitive to medications and suffer from many side effects. The best thing about stimulants is, generally speaking, that they have no side effects.
Intially, I wanted to abuse mine but I managed not to. Now, it wouldn't even be an option, I have no cravings for it. After a week or so I noticed the stimulants really helped me with impulse control. I no longer binge eat, interupt people, or say things outload that would later wish I hadn't. I've been on Dexedrine for 10 months now.
Coming down from them is not a problem now, although at one point it did bother me. I've customized my usage of the stimulants to my body's natural rhythms.
It takes time to adjust to stimulants. I know you know this. I'm just so pleased to see something finally give you decent relief John.
If the stimulants don't work out, you could try Desipramine (dopamine). This was the best anti-depressant I've tried. Janice.
Posted by CarolAnn on January 10, 2000, at 19:12:29
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by JohnL on January 10, 2000, at 15:49:16
Hey JohnL, the post just above your's (by me on jan. 8) suggests trying Adderall.
I know *exactly* what you mean about abusing ritalin, my experience was exactly like your's only I wasn't smart enough to put an end to it as soon as you did(I went thru 90 pills in a week once!). Anyway, I'm finding Adderall helpful, not a dramatic improvement, but noticeable. I take 10 mgs. 3 times per day. I think it would be worth trying, you and I have similar histories and since we had the same ritalin experience, seems like Adderall might work for you too. Good luck!CarolAnn
Posted by tracy prat on April 1, 2000, at 22:13:23
In reply to Re: feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by ChrisK on January 8, 2000, at 6:39:33
hello...
I am 15, and am not sure what to do. I have a hard time consentrating
on my homework. I guess i just don't want to do it. so my friend told
me to take one of her adderolls. So I did, only i snorted it. It worked
wonders on my consentration. I did my hw and all my paper rewrites, and
my homework for the next day. I found my self doing this when ever the
homework was heavy. I never abused it, as it take 3 a day. I never took
it for recreational reasons. Just to do my Homework. I have told my mother
this, however i did not tell her that i snorted it. I hate that i do this,
first its painful and second i don't like the idea of something going that
close to my brain. I am also not sure if it would have the same effect that
i want if i did not snort it. I don' know if i would be perscribed if i asked.
Anyone that reads this, could you please give me some addvise. Thank you.
Tracy.
Posted by DC on April 2, 2000, at 0:43:34
In reply to I need addvise on adderoll., posted by tracy prat on April 1, 2000, at 22:13:23
Tracey,
If the drug helps you, you should probably talk to a psychiatrist about it. Have you tried taking the medicine orally? I noticed that you seem to have some spelling difficulties. Do you think that might be related to ADD? One of the stimulant drugs might help you, but I would be very cautious about this. Stimulants are addictive and dangerous drugs. Make an informed decision.
Posted by Sherry on April 2, 2000, at 9:11:34
In reply to I need addvise on adderoll., posted by tracy prat on April 1, 2000, at 22:13:23
If you told your mother, maybe she could set up an appointment with your doctor to have you evaluated to see if you have ADD. My son takes adderall, and it has done wonders for him, but you must stop snorting it. It would probably be just as effective if you took it orally. You are right to be concerned as adderall is a powerful medication that should only be taken under the supervision of a doctor. Talk to your mother about getting you an appointment with your doctor. That's the best advice I can give you.
~Sherry
> hello...
> I am 15, and am not sure what to do. I have a hard time consentrating
> on my homework. I guess i just don't want to do it. so my friend told
> me to take one of her adderolls. So I did, only i snorted it. It worked
> wonders on my consentration. I did my hw and all my paper rewrites, and
> my homework for the next day. I found my self doing this when ever the
> homework was heavy. I never abused it, as it take 3 a day. I never took
> it for recreational reasons. Just to do my Homework. I have told my mother
> this, however i did not tell her that i snorted it. I hate that i do this,
> first its painful and second i don't like the idea of something going that
> close to my brain. I am also not sure if it would have the same effect that
> i want if i did not snort it. I don' know if i would be perscribed if i asked.
> Anyone that reads this, could you please give me some addvise. Thank you.
> Tracy.
Posted by Girl Interrupting on April 20, 2000, at 17:26:33
In reply to Re: feel like updating us, JohnL?, posted by CarolAnn on January 8, 2000, at 7:46:51
CarolAnn is on to something here. I, too, just went nuts with Ritalin; i was supposed to be taking 40mg a day and it was more like 100-150. It's just too much like cocaine for me. I then tried sustained release Ritalin, and that didn't really do _anything_ (I'm depressive/ADD and the stimulant is supposed to augment my effexor in addition to treating the ADD). I was put on Adderall about a week ago, and I'm a convert--I don't experience the crash I was getting with IR Ritalin, and I get more of a bump than I did with SR Ritalin, but I don't feel speed-freaky, and I have no desire to abuse it. My doctor said the drug was invented just for people like us--the ones with the crash problem, usually with a mood disorder on top of the ADD. She told me that it works because it includes both isomers of dextroamphetamine, which means that you get that great double action: long term support, with a better stimulant effect. You should talk to your doctor about it.
> Hey again, just FYI, if you do give up on the ritalin, you may want to try Adderall. ritalin was *not* the thing for me, but I have found some improvement and *no* side effects from Adderall, as you know, your mileage may vary. All we can do is keep on keepin' on!CarolAnn
Posted by Renee N on April 21, 2000, at 7:00:48
In reply to try the adderall, posted by Girl Interrupting on April 20, 2000, at 17:26:33
I just havad to tell you that I love your "name"! It's a perfect name for an ADDer. LOL 8^) Renee N (Real creative, huh?)
Posted by Debbie on May 2, 2000, at 20:35:46
In reply to Re: I need addvise on adderoll., posted by Sherry on April 2, 2000, at 9:11:34
Anyone with any advise, my son was prescibed this today i feel
he is so young, scared to give it to him, is it addictive could this effect him years to come.?
Do any of you have young children that are on it?
Debbie (Davis's mom, he is seven)
Posted by AlBey on May 23, 2001, at 12:08:25
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by CarolAnn on January 10, 2000, at 19:12:29
Well the only difference between methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Adderall, is that Ritalin allows the mind to release epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine, as well as dopamine. But i don't think that its the best idea to take Ritalin or Adderall as an anti depressant. I believe it would be a better idea to use Adderall. It was made to be used on antidepressant people and potential ADD/ADHD patents. nevertheless, in my experience as a research student on Ritalin and other ADD/ADHD suppressants is that just taking Desipramine(Dopamine) had the worst effect on the largest amount of users. What can i say, i don't have first person experiences, but i have read countless articles, and interviewed many people including some UCI med school lecturers, and also some ADD diagnosed people. Hopefully this will be helpful.
Posted by AlBey on May 23, 2001, at 12:26:25
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by AlBey on May 23, 2001, at 12:08:25
wow, too many errors... sorry for the mistakes, i was in a huge hurry to class and miswrote the entire thing well here is the fixed version
> Well the only difference between methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Adderall, is that Ritalin allows the mind to release epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine, while adderall mainly causes for dopamine to be released. Personally i don't think that its the best idea to take Ritalin as an anti depressant, but rather, it would be a better idea to use Adderall Because adderall was desined to work as an antidepresant and a potential ADD/ADHD suppressant. nevertheless, in my experience as a research student on Ritalin and other ADD/ADHD suppressants, is that taking Desipramine (Dopamine) has a potential catstrophic effect on the body because what is happening is that you are injesting preformed dopamine rather than forming it yourself causing a potential allegic affect (protein bonds on the hormones). This has caused one patent i read about to get epileptic segures and another to get a heart attack. another problem portaining to Desipramine is that it is highly addictive, and is very easily abbused. This is so because it is dopamine, and dopamine is the root cause of most addictions, such as in narcotics, sex and even food (for the obese people).
What can i say, i don't have first person experiences with any of these disorders, but i have read countless articles, and interviewed many people including some UCI med school lecturers (most of which are highly prestiged doctors) and also some ADD diagnosed people. Hopefully this will be helpful.
Posted by lawrence s. on May 23, 2001, at 13:08:59
In reply to Re: I need addvise on adderoll., posted by DC on April 2, 2000, at 0:43:34
> Tracey,
>
> If the drug helps you, you should probably talk to a psychiatrist about it. Have you tried taking the medicine orally? I noticed that you seem to have some spelling difficulties. Do you think that might be related to ADD? One of the stimulant drugs might help you, but I would be very cautious about this. Stimulants are addictive and dangerous drugs. Make an informed decision.
> > > > Also snorting can cause mini-strokes (brain damage).
Posted by Sulpicia on May 24, 2001, at 0:44:18
In reply to Re: Ritalin VS Adderall anyone???, posted by AlBey on May 23, 2001, at 12:26:25
> wow, too many errors... sorry for the mistakes, i was in a huge hurry to class and miswrote the entire thing well here is the fixed version
> > Well the only difference between methylphenidate (Ritalin) and Adderall, is that Ritalin allows the mind to release epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine, while adderall mainly causes for dopamine to be released. Personally i don't think that its the best idea to take Ritalin as an anti depressant, but rather, it would be a better idea to use Adderall Because adderall was desined to work as an antidepresant and a potential ADD/ADHD suppressant. nevertheless, in my experience as a research student on Ritalin and other ADD/ADHD suppressants, is that taking Desipramine (Dopamine) has a potential catstrophic effect on the body because what is happening is that you are injesting preformed dopamine rather than forming it yourself causing a potential allegic affect (protein bonds on the hormones). This has caused one patent i read about to get epileptic segures and another to get a heart attack. another problem portaining to Desipramine is that it is highly addictive, and is very easily abbused. This is so because it is dopamine, and dopamine is the root cause of most addictions, such as in narcotics, sex and even food (for the obese people).
> What can i say, i don't have first person experiences with any of these disorders, but i have read countless articles, and interviewed many people including some UCI med school lecturers (most of which are highly prestiged doctors) and also some ADD diagnosed people. Hopefully this will be helpful.Phew! You sure were in a hurry.
For accurate info on ritalin [methylphenidate] and adderall [mixed amphetamine salts], go here:
http://www.mentalhealth.com/fr30.html
scroll down to find the med you're interested in.
Desipramine is NOT dopamine -- it's a tricyclic AD, and concerning which there has not ever been one
shred of evidence about addiction.
Not quite sure if you mean dopamine here either, and as for a neurotransmitter being addictive, well... the idea
sort of creates a peculiar ontological paradox.
Maybe there is a translation problem here??
apologies if that's the case.There is an excellent ADD/HD forum at
http://add.about.com/health/add
search thru the medications folder, check the medication links on the homepage
and post questions.
This is the end of the thread.
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