![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Noa on March 13, 2000, at 6:46:18
In reply to Re: neurontin, paxil, hormones, posted by Thomas W on March 12, 2000, at 15:46:24
Neurontin is approved as an anticonvulsant, but is widely used as a mood stabilizer.
Tulip, do you think you had a hypomania? Maybe you are on too high a dose of paxil. In any event, the neurontin might help control any hypomania, because it is a mood stabilizer used in manic-depressive illness.
I also have a problem with skin picking, and have been all over the map in terms of conceptualizing what it is--is it self mutilation? Is it more of a tic? Something like trichotillomania? OCD? It seems to be something that helps me space out sometimes. Dissociating helps avoid the stress of life. It also feels unconcious and automatic sometimes, like I will catch my hand going to scratch my scalp or face. This last aspect of it makes me feel it is different from most self-mutilation and self-injury behaviors, but I am not sure, and welcome your input and that of others with this problem (Vesper--can you add to this discussion? Kelly?).
The hormonal aspect of your mood is an interesting area to explore. My friend who has epilepsy and takes neurontin, tells me the latest research on seizures and women is looking at the hormonal component. She is usually seizure free, on neurontin, except for just before and during her period.
Posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 7:58:11
In reply to Re: neurontin, paxil, hormones, posted by Thomas W on March 12, 2000, at 15:46:24
> I try neurontin for anger/rage and after reading
> up on it I couldn't understand. From my reading it
> appears that this drug is given for seizure control.
> This didn't make much sense to me.what i know is that neurontin is FDA approved for seizures. other uses are "off label", and include migraines, chronic fatigue, bipolar, depression, and restless leg syndrome. there are a few others too i just can't recall at this time. there doesn't seem to be much information out there probably because these are off-label uses, they don't have a long history, therefore there's not much data out there. i am of course just a person taking it for almost 3 weeks now. :)
tulip
Posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 8:33:53
In reply to Re: neurontin, paxil, hormones, posted by Noa on March 13, 2000, at 6:46:18
> Tulip, do you think you had a hypomania? Maybe you are on too high a dose of paxil. In any event, the neurontin might help
> control any hypomania, because it is a mood stabilizer used in manic-depressive illness.i'm not quite sure, that's kinda why i laid it all out here. :) i've only begun with getting treatment, and all i know is that i definitely have depression. after just one psychiatrist visit (which is all i've had so far) he did reveal that, "well, you are definitely depressed."
i have a theory, but i don't know if it's right, it's just guessing, and maybe that's all i can hope for. not hard answers, but theories, you know? i saw somewhere that bipolar can exist without a manic episode presenting itself yet. also read that paxil can have the side effect of causing a manic/hypomanic episode. (whether that would be in a bipolar or unipolar/depression i don't know).
my theory is that paxil was working a bit, and when my dose stalled at 40 mg, after a while perhaps i started having more days that were "overstimulated", a precursor to manic, let's say. then i got an increase in paxil to 60 mg which helped me "break through" the depression, and neurontin was there to combat the increase in "overstimulation" or manic side effect. but once my period began two weeks into this increase/addition in meds, all bets were off. neurontin was then increased immediately by 600 mg to stabilize the manic. whether the manic is part of me (possibly bipolar) or a side effect of the paxil in regular depression, i don't know. i would appreciate if anyone can reply and say, yeah, that could be what happened, here's why. :)
> The hormonal aspect of your mood is an interesting area to explore.
heh, this makes pms seem like a picnic! ;) thank you for replying noa.
tulip
Posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 9:23:54
In reply to Re: neurontin, paxil, hormones, posted by Noa on March 13, 2000, at 6:46:18
> I also have a problem with skin picking, and have been all over the map in terms of conceptualizing
> what it is--is it self mutilation? Is it more of a tic? Something like trichotillomania? OCD?
> It seems to be something that helps me space out sometimes. Dissociating helps avoid the stress of life.it can be any of these things. if it's a "tic" it's different, like a part of autism. i have been all over the map too and have settled on the idea that it is self-injury, perhaps less physically damaging than some of the si behaviors, but the same in that it generally can produce or be caused by other factors and feelings, and changes the state you're in temporarily. it's as if "they" are still sorting out where it truly fits in. OCD, BDD (an offshoot of OCD), are like saying it's a condition in itself. maybe. but for me, i believe that it is self-injury.
self-injury primer (i am cheating a bit and using _the scarred soul_ as a guide):
...is done to oneself, performed by oneself, physically violent, not suicidal, and intentional and purposeful.
...types of si (the physically viloent aspect) are cutting, burning, interfering with wound healing, scratching/picking, excessive nail biting, hitting, bone breaking, pulling out hair.
...can produce any or several of the following: relief from intense emotions, a coping mechanism, stopping, inducing, or preventing dissociation, producing euphoric feelings thru release of endorphins, physically expressing pain, communication, self-nuturing (caring for a physical wound which is "easier" than caring for the emotional wounds), self-punishment, reenacting previous abuse, establishing control.
...common characteristics shared among si-ers can be shame, isolation and alienation, vulnerability and loss of control, and ritual aspects (which can be impulsive or planned)
...the cycle: identify thoughts and emotions before, during, and after an episode.
...other factors infuencing, resulting from, and related to si: trauma, dissociation, eating disorders, substance abuse, suicide, borderline personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder, depression, anxiety, and any other psychological factors.> It also feels unconcious and automatic sometimes, like I will catch my hand going to scratch my
> scalp or face. This last aspect of it makes me feel it is different from most self-mutilation and
> self-injury behaviors, but I am not sure, and welcome your input and that of others with this problemif you care to, i have a web page at http://www.geocities.com/othertulip which includes my personal account of self-injury: one is the history of my behavior, another a graphic description of and si episode. click on "heal me" to find the links. (of course, please be safe before you read if you think it may trigger). what you describe sounds familiar, as you will see if you visit the page. yes, it can be "unconscious". cutting for example is the most common form of si, and it differs from picking imo basically in that cutting is more planned, ritualistic.
> (Vesper--can you add to this discussion? Kelly?).
vesper?! i know vesper! we belong to the same mailing list. :) hi vesper!!!!
tulip
Posted by vesper on March 13, 2000, at 11:06:42
In reply to noa - self injury, posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 9:23:54
>
> > (Vesper--can you add to this discussion? Kelly?).
>
> vesper?! i know vesper! we belong to the same mailing list. :) hi vesper!!!!
>
> tulip
Hi tulip, I was going to ask if you were the same one..but...
I don't know what else to add, it's very addicting and seductive for me, the adrenaline rush and all the blood and the sense of well-being after cutting myself.
Posted by kellyR. on March 13, 2000, at 19:06:08
In reply to noa - self injury, posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 9:23:54
> > I also have a problem with skin picking, and have been all over the map in terms of conceptualizing
> > what it is--is it self mutilation? Is it more of a tic? Something like trichotillomania? OCD?
> > It seems to be something that helps me space out sometimes. Dissociating helps avoid the stress of life.
>
> it can be any of these things. if it's a "tic" it's different, like a part of autism. i have been all over the map too and have settled on the idea that it is self-injury, perhaps less physically damaging than some of the si behaviors, but the same in that it generally can produce or be caused by other factors and feelings, and changes the state you're in temporarily. it's as if "they" are still sorting out where it truly fits in. OCD, BDD (an offshoot of OCD), are like saying it's a condition in itself. maybe. but for me, i believe that it is self-injury.
>
> self-injury primer (i am cheating a bit and using _the scarred soul_ as a guide):
> ...is done to oneself, performed by oneself, physically violent, not suicidal, and intentional and purposeful.
> ...types of si (the physically viloent aspect) are cutting, burning, interfering with wound healing, scratching/picking, excessive nail biting, hitting, bone breaking, pulling out hair.
> ...can produce any or several of the following: relief from intense emotions, a coping mechanism, stopping, inducing, or preventing dissociation, producing euphoric feelings thru release of endorphins, physically expressing pain, communication, self-nuturing (caring for a physical wound which is "easier" than caring for the emotional wounds), self-punishment, reenacting previous abuse, establishing control.
> ...common characteristics shared among si-ers can be shame, isolation and alienation, vulnerability and loss of control, and ritual aspects (which can be impulsive or planned)
> ...the cycle: identify thoughts and emotions before, during, and after an episode.
> ...other factors infuencing, resulting from, and related to si: trauma, dissociation, eating disorders, substance abuse, suicide, borderline personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder, depression, anxiety, and any other psychological factors.
>
> > It also feels unconcious and automatic sometimes, like I will catch my hand going to scratch my
> > scalp or face. This last aspect of it makes me feel it is different from most self-mutilation and
> > self-injury behaviors, but I am not sure, and welcome your input and that of others with this problem
>
> if you care to, i have a web page at http://www.geocities.com/othertulip which includes my personal account of self-injury: one is the history of my behavior, another a graphic description of and si episode. click on "heal me" to find the links. (of course, please be safe before you read if you think it may trigger). what you describe sounds familiar, as you will see if you visit the page. yes, it can be "unconscious". cutting for example is the most common form of si, and it differs from picking imo basically in that cutting is more planned, ritualistic.
>
> > (Vesper--can you add to this discussion? Kelly?).
>
> vesper?! i know vesper! we belong to the same mailing list. :) hi vesper!!!!
>
> tulipI still cut & pick,I thought that i was doing it cause when i was young i was sexauly abused & rapped,& cutting would make me agly so they wouldn't hurt me anymore.I don't feel myself cutting,it's like i'm not there.I geuss i'm not any help,sorry
Posted by Cindy W on March 13, 2000, at 21:08:19
In reply to Re: noa - self injury, posted by kellyR. on March 13, 2000, at 19:06:08
> > > I also have a problem with skin picking, and have been all over the map in terms of conceptualizing
> > > what it is--is it self mutilation? Is it more of a tic? Something like trichotillomania? OCD?
> > > It seems to be something that helps me space out sometimes. Dissociating helps avoid the stress of life.
> >
> > it can be any of these things. if it's a "tic" it's different, like a part of autism. i have been all over the map too and have settled on the idea that it is self-injury, perhaps less physically damaging than some of the si behaviors, but the same in that it generally can produce or be caused by other factors and feelings, and changes the state you're in temporarily. it's as if "they" are still sorting out where it truly fits in. OCD, BDD (an offshoot of OCD), are like saying it's a condition in itself. maybe. but for me, i believe that it is self-injury.
> >
> > self-injury primer (i am cheating a bit and using _the scarred soul_ as a guide):
> > ...is done to oneself, performed by oneself, physically violent, not suicidal, and intentional and purposeful.
> > ...types of si (the physically viloent aspect) are cutting, burning, interfering with wound healing, scratching/picking, excessive nail biting, hitting, bone breaking, pulling out hair.
> > ...can produce any or several of the following: relief from intense emotions, a coping mechanism, stopping, inducing, or preventing dissociation, producing euphoric feelings thru release of endorphins, physically expressing pain, communication, self-nuturing (caring for a physical wound which is "easier" than caring for the emotional wounds), self-punishment, reenacting previous abuse, establishing control.
> > ...common characteristics shared among si-ers can be shame, isolation and alienation, vulnerability and loss of control, and ritual aspects (which can be impulsive or planned)
> > ...the cycle: identify thoughts and emotions before, during, and after an episode.
> > ...other factors infuencing, resulting from, and related to si: trauma, dissociation, eating disorders, substance abuse, suicide, borderline personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder, depression, anxiety, and any other psychological factors.
> >
> > > It also feels unconcious and automatic sometimes, like I will catch my hand going to scratch my
> > > scalp or face. This last aspect of it makes me feel it is different from most self-mutilation and
> > > self-injury behaviors, but I am not sure, and welcome your input and that of others with this problem
> >
> > if you care to, i have a web page at http://www.geocities.com/othertulip which includes my personal account of self-injury: one is the history of my behavior, another a graphic description of and si episode. click on "heal me" to find the links. (of course, please be safe before you read if you think it may trigger). what you describe sounds familiar, as you will see if you visit the page. yes, it can be "unconscious". cutting for example is the most common form of si, and it differs from picking imo basically in that cutting is more planned, ritualistic.
> >
> > > (Vesper--can you add to this discussion? Kelly?).
> >
> > vesper?! i know vesper! we belong to the same mailing list. :) hi vesper!!!!
> >
> > tulip
>
> I still cut & pick,I thought that i was doing it cause when i was young i was sexauly abused & rapped,& cutting would make me agly so they wouldn't hurt me anymore.I don't feel myself cutting,it's like i'm not there.I geuss i'm not any help,sorryThere is a really great book I got from the library recently, called "Cutting," by Steven Levenkron, about self-injurious behaviors. It is available in paperback, also.
Posted by Janice on March 14, 2000, at 0:23:43
In reply to Re: noa - self injury, posted by Cindy W on March 13, 2000, at 21:08:19
hi everyone,
Geez...I never considered my trichotillomania to be self-injury before reading this thread.
I'll share my story...it's kind of a success story.
Okay, I have 2 distinct parts to my trichotillomania, the compulsive touching & the pulling
I started trichotillomania at 5
At 12, the pulling increased
I cannot remember a day that I did not do it since age 5.I have learnt that it is a coping mechanism for my ADHD. I do the compulsive part when my mind is out-of-control. I do the pulling when the tension mounts and I need to pull the hair out to get relief...and then the pressure begins to build again. I suspect I have to pull it out when the discomfort from the ADHD gets really bad and I need to take my mind of it.
The GOOD NEWS is that since I've started the Dexedrine, I don't pull anymore--nothing. Dexedrine gives me impulse control.
I still do the compulsive part (singling out and touching a hair) any time my body is STILL (ADHD).
I believe it's mostly a coping mechanism for my ADHD--to take my mind off the discomfort of living in my skin.
Everyone of my siblings has something weird going on with their hair, so I imagine it has a genetic component too. One sister has to get home (this is episodic) to pluck all the hairs off of her legs. This sister also picks at her face alot.
thanks for sharing your story kellyR. I'm sorry life has been so hard to an innocent child.
Janice
Posted by Cynthia on March 15, 2000, at 10:54:12
In reply to noa - self injury, posted by tulip on March 13, 2000, at 9:23:54
I thought I was alone in this. I have cut myself severaltimes, always on my left wrist , alwayst with something dull so I would have to push hard, and just enough to see the blood , over and over and over. So I have these faint scars and everyone, even the Psych think it has something to do with suicide but I am never suicidal when it happens just in a rage episode. I have never heard anyone talk about it before. I thought I was just really really weird. Thanks for the info.
Posted by bob on March 15, 2000, at 21:22:53
In reply to Re: noa - self injury, posted by Cynthia on March 15, 2000, at 10:54:12
My therapist has done a lot of work with adolescent teen girls and various forms of self-injury. She told me once that there are a number of reasons why someone would do this ... but the one reason I identified with was pain control. Creating pain that drowns out the pain that just happens to me without my understanding is just part of it -- knowing that *I* am hurting myself...knowing the cause, feeling (mistakenly) that I have some control over it, thinking that it's all some rational process that I understand perfectly well actually gives me some pleasure in the pain I can inflict upon myself. In that oh-so-twisted way, its more rewarding than it is painful.
eke!
bob
Posted by PattyG on March 15, 2000, at 22:02:30
In reply to Re: self injury, posted by bob on March 15, 2000, at 21:22:53
Are any of you folks diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder?
Posted by Vesper on March 15, 2000, at 23:09:08
In reply to Re: self injury, posted by PattyG on March 15, 2000, at 22:02:30
I read that last post about self-injury, and felt quite an adrenaline rush. It was like when I am feeling bored or depressed and suddenly remember what it is like to slide a needle into my vein, draw, watch the stream of blood enter the methamphetamine mixture, then press that plunger...instant happiness. Too bad it doesn't last and does a lot of harm. Same with cutting. I really want to cut myself lately, I long for that gush of blood pouring out...hot liquid salvation....
Can anyone relate?
Posted by Elizabeth on March 15, 2000, at 23:44:04
In reply to Re: noa - self injury, posted by Cynthia on March 15, 2000, at 10:54:12
> I thought I was alone in this. I have cut myself severaltimes, always on my left wrist , alwayst with something dull so I would have to push hard, and just enough to see the blood , over and over and over. So I have these faint scars and everyone, even the Psych think it has something to do with suicide but I am never suicidal when it happens just in a rage episode. I have never heard anyone talk about it before. I thought I was just really really weird. Thanks for the info.
There really are a lot of people who suffer from repetitive self-injury, especially (but not exclusively) young women. Actually I have a hard time believing there aren't any support groups out there for this. (Are there?)
On the other hand, as Vesper has discovered, you have to be careful. I was in group therapy for a while, and several times people were triggered to commit "parasuicidal" acts when others discussed their own self-harming. This could be a lot worse in a support group, where there's no therapist to talk to if you're feeling unsafe.
BTW I think it goes way beyond things like cutting, burning, and head-banging -- I've known people to do things like get into auto accidents, take drug overdoses, and get into unhealthy relationships.
Nobody was ever really able to explain to me why they did it (in a way that made sense to me, anyway), but it seems like there's often some sort of dissociation involved. Does that conform to people's experiences?
Posted by lizzie on March 16, 2000, at 15:40:34
In reply to Re: self injury/triggered!!, posted by Vesper on March 15, 2000, at 23:09:08
> I read that last post about self-injury, and felt quite an adrenaline rush. It was like when I am feeling bored or depressed and suddenly remember what it is like to slide a needle into my vein, draw, watch the stream of blood enter the methamphetamine mixture, then press that plunger...instant happiness. Too bad it doesn't last and does a lot of harm. Same with cutting. I really want to cut myself lately, I long for that gush of blood pouring out...hot liquid salvation....
> Can anyone relate?i can relate, big time-when i start cycling
downward i listen to nin a lot --the song
hurt, well, it says it all.
Posted by bob on March 16, 2000, at 18:31:01
In reply to Re: self-injury, posted by Elizabeth on March 15, 2000, at 23:44:04
> Nobody was ever really able to explain to me why they did it (in a way that made sense to me, anyway), but it seems like there's often some sort of dissociation involved. Does that conform to people's experiences?
Abso-f*ck*ng-lutely.
"Some sort of" is nowhere near strong enough from my perspective.
bob
[ps. that's about the only infix -- as opposed to a prefix or suffix -- in the English language ;^]
Posted by Mark H. on March 16, 2000, at 22:22:04
In reply to Re: noa - self injury, posted by kellyR. on March 13, 2000, at 19:06:08
>I don't feel myself cutting,it's like i'm not there.I geuss i'm not any help,sorry
KellyR.,
Your comments add insight and value to this discussion, so don't think you are not of any help. I've learned from you. Thank you for sharing.
Posted by Elizabeth on March 17, 2000, at 3:24:55
In reply to Re: self-injury, posted by bob on March 16, 2000, at 18:31:01
> > Nobody was ever really able to explain to me why they did it (in a way that made sense to me, anyway), but it seems like there's often some sort of dissociation involved. Does that conform to people's experiences?
>
> Abso-f*ck*ng-lutely.I take that as a "yes." :-) Can you tell me more about your dissociative experiences?
> "Some sort of" is nowhere near strong enough from my perspective.
Well, I mean, which sort(s) of dissociation can lead to self-destructiveness?
> bob
>
> [ps. that's about the only infix -- as opposed to a prefix or suffix -- in the English language ;^]And a damned useful one!
Posted by Cynthia on March 17, 2000, at 9:08:45
In reply to Re: self-injury - bob, posted by Elizabeth on March 17, 2000, at 3:24:55
Fascinating- always the same place , and always the same song- never thought of the song as a trigger. Never making the "real" connection until the next day and then what? embarassment, shame, feelings of stupidity? Vesper- I can relate to the feelings of euphoria, the release. Very hard to explain.
Posted by Kathleen on March 17, 2000, at 16:43:51
In reply to Re: self-injury - bob, posted by Cynthia on March 17, 2000, at 9:08:45
1-3 people have become triggered.
Anyone else think maybe self-injury should not be discussed because of this?
Posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 18:33:52
In reply to Re:This Thread is very Disturbing, posted by Kathleen on March 17, 2000, at 16:43:51
> 1-3 people have become triggered.
>
> Anyone else think maybe self-injury should not be discussed because of this?Dear Kathleen, I see your point, but I wonder if talking about it is triggering *because* the subject is taboo and under-discussed? In therapy I choose to ask for lots and lots of details from my fellow therapands, because it tends to normalize the experience and take the charge off of it. Some people don't like my inquisitiveness, but most perceive it as nurturing. I think, perhaps, that most people need to tell their story over and over and over again in order to put some air and light around it. Otherwise, the old wounds tend to fester in the dark of secrecy and shame, behind sterile labels.
I worked with a woman for several years who said she had been raped. When I finally asked for details, she said an old man on the street in a large city grabbed her arm and hit her on top of the head with his fist, because she didn't make eye contact with him as she walked by. Apparently, her militant sister decided that constituted "rape," and convinced my friend that that was the correct label to apply to the experience. There was no sexual contact attempted and the whole matter lasted a few seconds.
My wife was raped at 13, walking home alone from a pizza parlor at midnight in Fresno. Two men in their early 20s grabbed her and shoved her into the bushes next to the sidewalk, and one held the blade of a hunting knife in her mouth while the other had intercourse with her. It was her first sexual experience. She felt she couldn't tell her parents. She became pregnant from the incident. Abortions at the time were illegal and were provided by the same people who sold heroin. My wife had an abortion and started a heroin habit at 13. Her first consensual lover was a merchant marine 10 years her senior who told her during sex that it was OK for her to move. She thought he was very kind indeed.
Both women can say, "I was raped" and most people will politely leave it at that, imagining whatever they think the label means. I think it helps to discuss the gory details so that each can take back her power and not feel triggered by mere mention of someone else's experience. Obviously, one approach does not work for everyone, and sometimes indirection is more effective.
I am more concerned about the potential of this list promoting secrecy and taboos than I am about the possibility of someone being triggered by stories of self-injury, but that's just my opinion, and perhaps I'm wrong. I believe in the healing power of openness and communication, and the compassion and understanding they can invoke from others. We assume self-injury, by definition, is "bad." Why is that? What part is cultural? Where do we draw the line? How will we ever know without the details?
Thank you for your consideration.
Posted by bob on March 17, 2000, at 19:24:01
In reply to Re: self-injury - bob, posted by Elizabeth on March 17, 2000, at 3:24:55
> I take that as a "yes." :-) Can you tell me more about your dissociative experiences?
>... I mean, which sort(s) of dissociation can lead to self-destructiveness?For me, you're putting the cart before the horse. It's a rather vicious circle, but it begins with the self-injury. To mix metaphors even further, any prelude to my self-injurious behavior is like a baited hook, and without the right meds (or so it seems) I just can't resist a nibble....
The dissociation, for me, comes in an almost Cartesian mind-body split -- if my consciousness could somehow step out of and behind my body and get some sense of "physically" compelling me to continue, it would be all the more rewarding. I guess that's some response to the part of mind that's trying to say "HEY BOB!! This is STUPID! Stop hurting yourself!!" ... if I could separate my mind from my body, it could almost seem like I was doing it to someone else ... or, perhaps [just try to make sense of THIS], I was me and the someone else at the same time, feeling the pain AND dishing it out with a sense of disconnectedness between the two that might shut up that voice trying to tell me I wasn't doing myself any good.
Then again, the part of me that wants to inflict that pain is rather vicious, cruel, and unforgiving. From all the reports I get from my friends, that's just the opposite of how I am to others. Perhaps I just can't integrate the two me's. The "good" part of me just can't accept that sort of behavior in anyone, particularly me.
Hope that makes some sense,
bob
Posted by Kathleen on March 18, 2000, at 0:48:17
In reply to Re: self-injury - bob and his evil twin, posted by bob on March 17, 2000, at 19:24:01
I agree with you Mark for the most part, except that certain aspects of certain disorders probably shouldn't be talked about. For example, anorexics should not discuss diet tips.
I'm wondering if self injurers should discuss hurting themselves. To me, it sounds like 3 people were 'triggered' here. I don't know anything about this disorder, and believe a professional who does should decide if this is a topic for this board.
Posted by PattyG on March 18, 2000, at 9:06:29
In reply to You missed my point:Dr Bob please read this thread, posted by Kathleen on March 18, 2000, at 0:48:17
Usually, when there is a discussion about self-injury, folks will put a "warning" label with the message. That way, the people who are uncomfortable with the topic or feel triggered by the discussion can choose to skip those particular posts. I have witnessed both approaches to the topic (open and forewarned) and I have respect for both. Would that be a solution for the problem?
"Warning: Topic - Self-injury"
Posted by PattyG on March 18, 2000, at 9:11:23
In reply to Re: self-injury - bob and his evil twin, posted by bob on March 17, 2000, at 19:24:01
Then again, the part of me that wants to inflict that pain is rather vicious, cruel, and unforgiving. From all the
reports I get from my friends, that's just the opposite of how I am to others. Perhaps I just can't integrate the two
me's. The "good" part of me just can't accept that sort of behavior in anyone, particularly me.Hope that makes some sense,
bob///Isn't the purpose of therapy for some folks to help with the reintegration of the "split" personalities? (Obviously, some are to greater or lesser degrees. Some could be multiple personalities and others could be suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder....but again, to varying degrees?) Some thoughts, anyway.
Posted by bob on March 18, 2000, at 9:36:54
In reply to You missed my point:Dr Bob please read this thread, posted by Kathleen on March 18, 2000, at 0:48:17
Kathleen,
First of all, your compassion is touching and very much appreciated. Thank you for caring, and for expressing it so strongly. =^)
If I'm one of the three, you can cut it back to two (no pun...okay, pun intended). As I mentioned in my last post, the right meds keep me from engaging in my own form of self-injury ... and I happen to be on them right now.
I'd also say that the "triggers" aren't necessarily so specific as to worry about this conversation. If I was hurting myself, there is somewhat of a class of triggers for it. If it's not one thing, it would be another.
Bottom line: I still have needed to talk about these issues with my therapist. It has to come out. It needs examination.
This board is perhaps an even more important forum for discussing it for several reasons:
(1) I learn from others who cut or injure themselves and it's a mirror for me. Somewhat of a funhouse mirror, at that -- definitely "distorted" from my own view of myself, but is the distortion in my mind or the mirror? Seeing a different perspective on the same sort of behavior gives me different insights than I can generate on my own.
(2) There are always the lurkers out there who read and seldom, if ever, respond. Not everyone needs to chip in their two cents to learn something from this board or find some new perspective on why they do what they do. Cutting is one particular behavior that people try to hide. It can be really difficult to expose yourself and your behaviors to others. Sometimes, it's the fear of the reactions of others -- disgust, pity, horror, or that look in their faces that says "You are really one sick mother...". What is rewarding when it's private and secret can become a great source of shame when brought out in the open. Another reason -- and this one really has a grip on me when I'm doing it -- is the sense of control over my pain. I don't want ANYONE to take that away from me; I don't want anyone to stop me. Making it public means a loss of control, since there will be at the least some social pressure to stop and, at the worst, someone pushing for involuntary hospitalization. For the cutters out there who don't want to expose themselves to public scrutiny but still NEED to have some better understanding about why we do what we do, this conversation can be very informative and therapeutic.
(3) Finally, you said you don't understand this behavior yourself.
If you have some issues with depression of your own and YOU can't understand us, how do you think we'll fare with the "normals" out there? I really appreciated Elizabeth's questions because they worked to inform me as much as they were to inform anyone else NOT into self-injury. That is our burden in general -- we need to make the "normal" public understand who we are and what we face day in and day out if we're ever going to successfully fight the stigma that surrounds the "mentally ill" and get the parity of treatment we need and deserve. Before we can do that, tho, we have to understand ourselves. We cannot be effective in our advocacy if we don't know how to communicate effectively about it.
So, again, thank you for your passion and your compassion. You're right, this thread may act as a trigger for some -- but if this thread wasn't here, they'd just find another trigger, or one would come along. I, for one, think that far more light is being spread than darkness by this coversation.
cheers,
bob
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