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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by William on March 2, 2000, at 13:49:24
Anyone have success with Stablon? I would like to
give it a try myself, but have yet been unable to
find a source. What I find interesting about Stablon
is that its believed to affect the HPA axis. I am
convinced my depression is caused by an imbalance
in my endocrine system. Unfortunatly not much is known
and few treatments are available yet. What do you
think?
Posted by AndrewB on March 3, 2000, at 8:32:36
In reply to Tianeptine(Stablon), posted by William on March 2, 2000, at 13:49:24
> Anyone have success with Stablon? I would like to
> give it a try myself, but have yet been unable to
> find a source. What I find interesting about Stablon
> is that its believed to affect the HPA axis. I am
> convinced my depression is caused by an imbalance
> in my endocrine system. Unfortunatly not much is known
> and few treatments are available yet. What do you
> think?If you don't mind me asking, why do you think you have an inbalance in your endocrine system that effects your HPA axis.
Posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon), posted by AndrewB on March 3, 2000, at 8:32:36
Would it surprise you if PMS or Postpartum
depression were proved to be an endocrine
imbalance. Allthough they have'nt done this
yet, they soon will. Do a search on the
HPA axis or CRF. You will find compelling
evidence that many mood disorders now diagnosed
as depression are actually a problem with
the HPA axis. There are many other areas of
the endocrine system that are not understood
and could be a factor in mood disorders.
To explain all the factors of my own disorder
would take me days to type. I am convinced its
an endocrine disorder. Not convinced the HPA axis
is my key problem, but alot of research is going
into that area lately. With my bad luck, I likely
have some other type of endocrine disorder. Hope
not!!!!
Posted by Brandon on March 3, 2000, at 14:18:59
In reply to Endocrine disorder, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:38
I was just wondering if you had given a small dose of Dilantin (100mgs. at bedtime or breakfast) a fair trial? It has done a lot of good for me, I believe my depression was caused by a hypercortisolic state caused by chronic stress. Of course I could be way off but never the less it has helped a lot for me where others have failed. I have tried almost all of the SSRI's and a couple of tricyclics and even a maoi. Although the maoi was deprenyl and at only 25mgs. it gave me the most relief. Before the dilantin. Just a couple of thoughts for ya. Good luck!
Posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 15:08:19
In reply to Re: Endocrine disorder, posted by Brandon on March 3, 2000, at 14:18:59
I've read that dexamethasone,ketocanazole and
tianeptine lower cortisol, but no where have I
read where Dilantin does. Where did you read that?
Thanks.
> I was just wondering if you had given a small dose of Dilantin (100mgs. at bedtime or breakfast) a fair trial? It has done a lot of good for me, I believe my depression was caused by a hypercortisolic state caused by chronic stress. Of course I could be way off but never the less it has helped a lot for me where others have failed. I have tried almost all of the SSRI's and a couple of tricyclics and even a maoi. Although the maoi was deprenyl and at only 25mgs. it gave me the most relief. Before the dilantin. Just a couple of thoughts for ya. Good luck!
Posted by Leighwit on March 7, 2000, at 15:22:45
In reply to Endocrine disorder, posted by William on March 3, 2000, at 10:19:38
I have no idea what the HPA axis is, nor CRF. But I do know a few interesting and purely anecdotal tidbits.
I'm a Type I diabetic and recently learned after seeing a psychopharmacologist that somewhere between 37 and 50 percent of Type I diabetics (juvenile-onset) develop major recurrent clinical depression. I was diagnosed approx. eight years ago, one year after giving birth to my first and only child. My depression hasn't fully responded to a long list of ADs, and many of them have side effects that interfere with tightly managed blood sugars.
So you can imagine my interest in this topic!
LW
> Would it surprise you if PMS or Postpartum
> depression were proved to be an endocrine
> imbalance. Allthough they have'nt done this
> yet, they soon will. Do a search on the
> HPA axis or CRF. You will find compelling
> evidence that many mood disorders now diagnosed
> as depression are actually a problem with
> the HPA axis. There are many other areas of
> the endocrine system that are not understood
> and could be a factor in mood disorders.
> To explain all the factors of my own disorder
> would take me days to type. I am convinced its
> an endocrine disorder. Not convinced the HPA axis
> is my key problem, but alot of research is going
> into that area lately. With my bad luck, I likely
> have some other type of endocrine disorder. Hope
> not!!!!
Posted by Don on March 7, 2000, at 17:34:03
In reply to Tianeptine(Stablon), posted by William on March 2, 2000, at 13:49:24
William,
My endocrine system has been 'out of whack' for several years. Thyroid was removed in the 80s; pituitary tumor treated with both transphenoidal surgery and gamma knife radiation, and prostate cancer treated with Lupron which directly effects the hypothalmus.
I believe that my HPA (hypothalmic pituitary axis) has forever been altered by the foregoing. Several bouts of severe depression/anxiety and several combinations of anti-depressants later, the mood problems persist; however, I think I detect improvement since the synthroid was replaced with armour thyroid as it contains both T3 and T4.
Don't know anything about Stablon, but would like to learn more.
Posted by Steve on March 8, 2000, at 22:19:05
In reply to Tianeptine(Stablon), posted by William on March 2, 2000, at 13:49:24
If you're looking for a cortisol suppressant that is also a mild and reversible MAO inhibitor, procaine might interest you. www.anticort.com
Posted by Karen on March 8, 2000, at 23:59:07
In reply to Endocrine disorder, posted by Don on March 7, 2000, at 17:34:03
William,
I lived in the Philippines for 5 years, where I was prescribed Amineptine (Survector). It worked better than anything ever has, as an antidepressant. No side effects either - I mean NONE. After moving back to the States, they discontinued Survector (I was having it sent to me) and replaced it with Stablon (Tianeptine). Sorry to say that for me, it didn't do the job. Made me even more drowsy than all the SSRI's have in the past. I have now started with a new doc and am going through the grueling task of finding something else that works. I am also trying to find a way to get Survector from somewhere in Europe (manufactured in France). I sure do miss feeling alive.
Posted by Anna P. on March 13, 2000, at 17:36:27
In reply to Tianeptine(Stablon), posted by William on March 2, 2000, at 13:49:24
> Anyone have success with Stablon? I would like to
>Please help! I just brought Tianeptine from Europe. It works partially only at 12.5 mg three times daily.
What is the dosage and augmentation strategies?Anna P.
Posted by AndrewB on March 13, 2000, at 22:16:41
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by Anna P. on March 13, 2000, at 17:36:27
> > Anyone have success with Stablon? I would like to
> >
>
> Please help! I just brought Tianeptine from Europe. It works partially only at 12.5 mg three times daily.
> What is the dosage and augmentation strategies?
Anna,One previous poster said that he did best on half a tablet (6.25 mg.) twice a day. He said that the optimal dosage probably varied according to one's initial cortisol levels. Sorry, I can't be of any more help. I hope you will keep us informed on how the tianeptine is working for you.
AndrewB
Posted by Anna P. on March 14, 2000, at 15:37:57
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by AndrewB on March 13, 2000, at 22:16:41
> >
>
> Anna,
>
> One previous poster said that he did best on half a tablet (6.25 mg.) twice a day. He said that the optimal dosage probably varied according to one's initial cortisol levels. Sorry, I can't be of any more help. I hope you will keep us informed on how the tianeptine is working for you.
>
> AndrewB
Tianeptine works in me similar to Zoloft. I developed the tolerance to Zoloft a long time ago. Unfortunately, although it is an energizing antidepressant, it has sexual side effects. No other side effects though. It has a short half life- stays in a body for 4 hours only (if it comes to me).
Last night I got anxiety attack while sleeping - mainly chest tightness. Is it dangerous enough to discontinue the drug?
Another thing, it causes nightmares in me, but also I loose inches that I coudn't loose while on Moclobemide.
Thats's all after the 3 weeks trial.Anna P.
Posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 10:06:14
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by Anna P. on March 14, 2000, at 15:37:57
>
>
> Tianeptine works in me similar to Zoloft. I developed the tolerance to Zoloft a long time ago. Unfortunately, although it is an energizing antidepressant, it has sexual side effects. No other side effects though. It has a short half life- stays in a body for 4 hours only (if it comes to me).
> Last night I got anxiety attack while sleeping - mainly chest tightness. Is it dangerous enough to discontinue the drug?
> Another thing, it causes nightmares in me, but also I loose inches that I coudn't loose while on Moclobemide.
> Thats's all after the 3 weeks trial.
>
Anna P.,I'm glad tianeptine is working for you. In an old post a person called Pandey said that he was like you getting panic or nervousness with tianeptine. He successfully took Xanax for the panic fter first trying benzo.s and realizing that wasn't a good combination. He alos got the nightmares and said it wqas officially listed as a possible tianeptine side effect. If you want to see the whole post go to the archives for May 9th, '5 months on tianeptine', pandey m.
Posted by To Andrew on March 15, 2000, at 13:13:51
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 10:06:14
>
> >
> >
> >Andrew, thank You for Your input, I do appreciate it!Anna P.
Posted by Anna P. on March 15, 2000, at 13:31:07
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 10:06:14
>
> >
> > After few weeks Tianeptine stops working, just like everything else. I will see my pdoc in one month, and I cannot call him, as he is busy doctor.
Now Tianeptine works partially, and I keep loosing the energy.
Does anyone knows how to augment Tianeptine? Since it works on the serotonian system, would dopamine augmentation be O"K? I have Mirapex at home. How safe will be that combo?
I just need to survive. Please help!Anna P.
> >
>
Posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 15:22:24
In reply to Re:DR.Bob? Anybody? HELP! Tianeptine stops working, posted by Anna P. on March 15, 2000, at 13:31:07
> >
> > >
> > > After few weeks Tianeptine stops working, just like everything else. I will see my pdoc in one month, and I cannot call him, as he is busy doctor.
> Now Tianeptine works partially, and I keep loosing the energy.
> Does anyone knows how to augment Tianeptine? Since it works on the serotonian system, would dopamine augmentation be O"K? I have Mirapex at home. How safe will be that combo?
> I just need to survive. Please help!
>
>Anna,> > >
Would you be able to take the time to describe what you are diagnosed with, your symptoms and what medicines you have and haven't responded to and what your specific reactions have been. I think that might enable others to give you suggestions. It is very perplexing that you have 'poop out' to some many different meds. By the way, I hope your trip to Poland went well!
> >
Posted by Anna P. on March 15, 2000, at 15:37:35
In reply to Re:DR.Bob? Anybody? HELP! Tianeptine stops working, posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 15:22:24
> > >
> > > >
> > > >There is only one person that I've met on this site who has the same situation
like me - everything works for a while then stops. His Reboxetine worked only few weeks. My story is a long one, and I will be back as I need to leave my computer now.
> > >
Posted by Anna P. on March 16, 2000, at 15:46:53
In reply to Re:DR.Bob? Anybody? HELP! Tianeptine stops working, posted by Anna P. on March 15, 2000, at 15:37:35
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Glenn, Pandey-m, are you there????
Posted by Anna P. on March 16, 2000, at 16:21:03
In reply to Re:DR.Bob? Anybody? HELP! Tianeptine stops working, posted by AndrewB on March 15, 2000, at 15:22:24
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> Andrew, my trip to Poland went O'K. However, it was scary to see how much that country has suffered due to changes from the socialism to capitalistic system. No more free education and free healthcare services. Instead, there is unemployment, crime, and diminuition of the middle class.
Going back to my depression problem, it is a treatment-resistant depression, with SAD elements, that's what doctors said. However, they don't know why I can tolerate the high amounts of medication without antidepressant effect. You see, I'm interesting case to them. I've never experienced mania, but my major symptoms are the extreme loss of energy, the loss of concentration,
psychomotor slowdown. And yes, I've tried all kinds of drugs: SSRI,tricyclics, stimulants, moclobemide,wellbutrin, effexor,celexa, revia, cytomel, lamictal, combinations of above...Having degree had to give up my job, and yes, depression made me handicapped.
I won't take Lithum as medications made me fat enough, and that causes more depression instead. Prozac has never worked for me, neither reboxetine.
I'm chemically the total opposite of JohnL. Hated Prozac, loved Wellbutrin and Moclobemide.
Heaven't try MAOI's yet, but from the previous experience I can assume it will be the same. Depression lasts 5 years, tolerance I developed in September 98.
> > > Nothing more interesting about my case, no suicide, no self hurting or cutting...but still...it is a great tragedy for me.Anna P.
Posted by Sparkboy on March 17, 2000, at 0:44:29
In reply to Re: Tianeptine(Stablon)DOSAGE AND AUGMENTATION, posted by Anna P. on March 13, 2000, at 17:36:27
I have a MEDLINE abstract of a study using a dosage as high as 75 mg/day (6 tablets).
"Efficacy of tianeptine in major depressive disorders with or without melancholia", 1997.
MEDLINE database unique identifier: 98069035.> Please help! I just brought Tianeptine from Europe. It works partially only at 12.5 mg three times daily.
> What is the dosage and augmentation strategies?
>
> Anna P.
Posted by AndrewB on March 17, 2000, at 11:22:25
In reply to Anna P. to Andrew, posted by Anna P. on March 16, 2000, at 16:21:03
Anna,
Yes you have tried a lot of different medicines! I can see that you are persistent and willing to keep trying until you get better. Don’t change, it is a perfect attitude to have.
Thank you for sharing your history but I think you’d be served well to be even more specific in describing your symptoms and history. Your long history with depression and med.s is an asset in the sense that it provides a lot of ‘clues’ into your condition. I think that if you provide enough ‘clues’ somebody on this board may be able to give you some very useful advice.
I suggest you start by being more specific about your symptoms. For example do you have sleepiness, difficulty experiencing pleasure, poor memory, fainting spells, difficulty paying attention, or have a hard time caring about anything. Do you feel much more tired after exercise. Do you suffer frequent infections. Does your energy and concentration go up and down. If so, do you know what causes it to go up and down or is there a time pattern (i.e. feel good for about 2 days of the week). Do you generally feel more energetic in the morning; do you wake up feeling refreshed. Have you ever been diagnosed as an atypical depressive or anything else. How normal do you feel in the summertime when you aren’t SAD.
The other thing I suggest you do is to be very specific about your reactions to the various meds, especially the one’s that you had a partial or temporary response to ( By the way you have tried an MAOI, moclobemide is a reversible MAOI). For example with Mirapex, what was your final dosage, how long did you take it at that final dosage before you lost response, when you lost response (but still were taking the med.) did you feel like you were back to square one and feeling the same as ever or did you feel bad but in a different way, when you were responding how were you improved besides your mood. Why did you hate Prozac and like Wellbutrin and Moclobemide. Well you get the idea what kind of information might be useful.
One final thing, post this as a new thread at the bottom of the page so everybody is ensured of seeing it. I’ll be looking forward to seeing your post.
AndrewB
Posted by Anna P. on March 17, 2000, at 12:33:16
In reply to Re:to Anna, posted by AndrewB on March 17, 2000, at 11:22:25
>
>
>Yes, I'm persistent, but it is a devastating illness. All meds I've tried put me back to my previous state, so this is probably "treatment-resistant".
On the other hand, there is the time pattern to it, so maybe it's some type of a bipolar, but I don't have manic states. Also, it gets worse, last year I had less months when the energy came back (January, March,April, June, October) then in 1998. May 1999 was the month when the SAD hit me the hardest.You've asked so many questions... Sorry for saying that, but it made me feel for a moment like a laboratory rat. I'm coming to this board to get help and support.
There was one question that made me think. You've asked about frequent infections. Does depression has anything to do with the weakening of the immune system? Last year I've got quite few infections, including Mononucleosis (big surprise to me).I'm still on Tianeptine...keep loosing the energy...
Anna P.
Posted by KarenB on March 17, 2000, at 12:51:47
In reply to Re:Keep loosing the energy...Still on Tianeptine, posted by Anna P. on March 17, 2000, at 12:33:16
Anna,
Tianeptine did the same thing for me - not much. My energy levels were in the pits just like when I have taken SSRIs.
If you have friends, doctors in Europe, this is the combo that did it for me: Amineptine (Survector) - one before I get out of bed and one after lunch and Sulpiride(Dogmatil) - same dosage. Survector has been discontinued by the manufacturer but you can probably find a source or sources that have leftover stock, to try it and then buy it up. It is very fast acting. None of this suffering for three weeks with symptoms and side effects.
I feel for you. I too have the kind of illness that does not land me in jail or the hospital but just slowly and insidiously sucks my life away.
We will get better, Anna. Don't give up!
Karen
Posted by Anna P. on March 17, 2000, at 13:03:18
In reply to Re:Anna - Tianeptine, posted by KarenB on March 17, 2000, at 12:51:47
> Thank You Karen,
I've read Your other posts already. Question I have is: What it is Dogmatil? Never heard of it.
what's its use, and how does it work?Anna P.
Posted by KarenB on March 17, 2000, at 23:45:51
In reply to Re:Anna - to Karen, posted by Anna P. on March 17, 2000, at 13:03:18
Dear Anna,
Dogmatil is a neuroleptic/anti-psychotic which has properties that act on the dopamine receptors. It is used for social inhibition, depression and the "physical symptoms of organic disorders." This is why I think it helped me, in conjunction with the AD I told you about. It seemed to ease the terrible fatigue and heavy, sluggish feeling I get and it eased my migraines to the point where they were only occasional. The only side effect I experienced was an almost complete cessation of my menstrual periods, which is not such a bad side effect at all, as far as I am concerned. My doctora said it was nothing to worry about, so long as I had regular OB checkups to be sure all was well. I am not as technically knowledgable on medications as some on the board, so if you want to know more, post an inquiry or do a search on sulpiride.
Best to you!
Karen
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