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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janice on October 24, 1999, at 19:57:13
I've been struggling my whole life trying to get to bed (and of course fall asleep) on time, and trying to get out of bed on time. I believe my circadian rhythm is pretty typical of someone with mental illness. Currently, I'm taking 1 mg of Ativan at night to get to sleep; which I would like to quit because I've heard it could be a contributing factor to depression (can't risk that).
So please let me know of any good tips you have for getting out of bed in the morning. So far for me, the only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning and moving at a decent pace is a job; which I don't have right now. Plus, I have never been able to get out of bed early and quickly on the week-ends, even when I do have a job.
Any tricks that you use to get yourself sleepy for bed other than medication.
If you use medications to go to bed, are some better than others, i.e., wouldn't contribute to depression (I don't worry about addiction).
Thanks once again for all your help.
Still feeling ugly, Janice. (but working on it)
Posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 8:58:09
In reply to Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by Janice on October 24, 1999, at 19:57:13
Chamomile tea and reading articles by CG Jung make me very sleepy. I've been trying to read a book titled "Aspects of the Feminine," which is a collection of articles by CG Jung having to do with his views on women and psychology. It's a thin book, but requires plowing, at least for me. Emma Jung isn't much better. I'd probably do better to start my reading earlier, too.
Sometimes watching a fireplace fire or listening to peaceful music helps, too, or listening to my cat purr.
But I also am taking Remeron before bed, which also is supposed to make one sleepy, so it's hard to tell which is more effective.
Good luck.
Posted by dove on October 25, 1999, at 9:28:20
In reply to Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by Janice on October 24, 1999, at 19:57:13
Good morning Janice :-)
I have never been able to get sleep w/o meds of some kind. I have never been able to get up in the morning w/o taking something to sleep the night before. I have a daughter who is just like me and strangely enough, she cannot fall asleep for hours and hours w/o meds and she prefers to sleep until 10am under any and all conditions. The little girl I'm talking about is 6 yrs. old and has had these symptoms since 3 weeks old (seriously).I have to take melatonin to sleep. Without it I know my doc would pull the Adderall out. I have nothing else to add and have no idea what I would do if melatonin was ever pulled off the market or something akin to that. I really do feel for you though, it really does suck to never be able to fall asleep like everyone else. I get sooo jealous of my husband, I just can't shut my mind and body down like other people and I can't wake it up either.
I hope someone can post something helpful :-)
dove
Posted by janice on October 25, 1999, at 12:41:01
In reply to Re: Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by dove on October 25, 1999, at 9:28:20
maybe I'll borrow dj's technical texts.
Seriously, I'll try the soothing music and look into the melotonin, dove.
Certain signals (some more powerful than others, pills, music), can tell your body it's time for bed. I've just heard it best not to take Ativan for longer than a 3 month period.
Dove, I think this is an ADHD thing. I feel best on 7 1/2 hours of sleep, but cannot get out of bed for anything other than a job until about 10 am. I try to plan things to get me out of bed but they don't work. sleep is a drug for me. This morning I planned to go for breakfast with someone at 8am, in a sleep drunken stupor, I call them to cancel.
I've tried setting an alarm on the other side of the room, but I get up to turn it off.Well at least I can hold down a job...usually that is.
Any more ideas out there? They are much appreciated.
Still feeling ugly, but looking pretty good (except in the mornings!), Janice. Thanks.
Dove, I wish when I was a little girl, I had a mother like you.
Posted by JohnL on October 25, 1999, at 12:44:34
In reply to Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by Janice on October 24, 1999, at 19:57:13
Hi Janice. I know you are interested in sleep without drugs. If you were to reconsider, either low dose Trazodone or low dose Remeron are commonly prescribed for sleep. Both are antidepressants as well. Sleep is so important. And if an AD will help you do that, it seems to me the benefits outweigh any other concerns.In the herbal arena, chamomile tea and/or passionflower an/or hops are known for relaxation and sleep. Kava kava also, though the package labels warn against using with an AD. I've taken these teas and they did indeed help me nod off. Problem was I had to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. Then it was hard to go back to sleep. I ended up making the tea super concentrated, not very pleasant, with less water. That worked pretty well. Didn't taste good though.
I think a sedating AD like Trazodone or Remeron would be best. Or one of the TCAs. Probably wouldn't need much of a dose. To get up out of bed, set a timer to some bright lights and have them turn on regularly each morning instead of an alarm clock. And set a coffee pot near you so you can smell it. Set a timer to it the night before so it begins brewing a few minutes before the lights come on. The bright light and the aroma of coffee and the sound of coffee brewing will impact all your senses and should help set the atmosphere.
Posted by Janice on October 25, 1999, at 13:06:25
In reply to Re: Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by JohnL on October 25, 1999, at 12:44:34
yes, I love your getting out of bed tips. Where did you get the timer that works with the light? At one point, I had a dawn simulator, but it broke, and I can't afford another one right now. I also love the smell of coffee and the sound of it perculating. It's funny how certain cues (I used to love the smell of cigarette smoke in the morning) will cause our bodies respond. John, Let me know about the timer (that turns the lights on) please. I'll keep the ADs in mind for sleep; I'm a bit hesitant about ADs because of my 'bad luck' with them in the past. I usually felt significantly better when I quit them. Great tips JohnL, Janice. thanks.
Posted by JohnL on October 25, 1999, at 16:09:31
In reply to that's great JohnL..., posted by Janice on October 25, 1999, at 13:06:25
Hi Janice. I've seen timers at most hardware stores or places like Home Depot and such. They're commonly used to turn lights, TVs, or radios on and off in houses when people are away, so potential burglars will think someone's home. Just set the desired on/off times, plug it into the wall socket, then plug your applicance into the timer. I think they're like $10 or $15 or so. I HAVE to have coffee right out of bed, so I set the timer the night before. When I get up I walk straight to the coffee pot before anything else and pour a cup. I'm spoiled that way, but it's great!
Of all the ADs that might be considered for sleep in someone who is hesitant with drugs, I think Trazodone might be the best choice because it has a very short half life of just a few hours. So a low dose, like 25mg or 50mg, wouldn't impact the following day at all. And at that low of a dose, it probably wouldn't have any effect one way or the other as an AD. Just for a reference point, therapeutic doses are in the 200mg to 400mg range. And again, herbal teas for sleep might be all you need. Easy to try. Anyway, I hope any of these off the wall ideas might help.
Posted by Janice on October 25, 1999, at 16:38:02
In reply to Re: Janice...timers., posted by JohnL on October 25, 1999, at 16:09:31
hi,
This is definately going to get me out of bed. thanks so much for sharing this. I may get 2 timers, one for a light, and one for the TV (a station where something I find interesting is on). Getting up to get our addictions -that's good. I don't smoke anymore, but I love (I think I said this already) the smell, the sound and the taste of good coffee.I've been on many ADs, but felt better when I quit them all (we were treating the wrong disorder- I have ADD). I will keep Trazodone in mind.
Any hints about getting yourself moving once you're out of bed? It tends to take me 2 to 3 hours before I can get to any of my 'serious business' of the day. thanks again JohnL, Janice.
Posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 18:20:42
In reply to Getting Good Sleep without medication...Help!, posted by Janice on October 24, 1999, at 19:57:13
I don't know where anyone else lives, but it's dark when my alarm goes off in the morning, and I'm having a very hard time getting out of bed. I am hoping that daylight savings time this Sunday will fix that somewhat. I have been late a lot lately.
Thanks, too, JohnL, for the timer idea. I hadn't thought of that. I've been turning the radio on, but it's not solving the problem.
Posted by Noa on October 25, 1999, at 21:06:30
In reply to Re: waking up again, posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 18:20:42
Once upon a time, I was an early riser. Now, it is tremendously hard for me to drag myself out of bed. I give myself an extra long time to get up, alert and ready in the morning before work. But on weekends, it is hard to feel motivated to get up and out. Except that I have no coffee at home now, so the incentive to go outside is there if I want that cup of joe. GEtting to bed early enough and staying on a routine does help. My problem right now is that the serzone helps me fall asleep, but the effexor is still activating and I tend to wake up agitated in the middle of the night and need some tv/computer time to relax enough to go back to sleep. Then, in the morning I am zonked. At one point in my life, I dealt with the wake up thing by establishing a nice morning ritual. I set my alarm clock near my whistling tea kettle (I lived in a studio apartment at that time, so the proximity between bed and kitchen facilitated this), making me get out of bed to turn the alarm off. When I turned off the alarm, I would put the whistling kettle on, and get back in bed for a few minutes, but had to get up when the water boiled. I would then make myself some tea and sit on the couch to enjoy it, sometimes just vegging, sometimes reading. Then I would feel more awake, but in a non-rushed, soothing kind of way.
Posted by dove on October 26, 1999, at 8:31:58
In reply to Re: waking up again, posted by Noa on October 25, 1999, at 21:06:30
My husband has a small greenhouse where everything is automated by timers. The lights, the fans the nutrients the pumps I mean everything. He gets his timers at some place on the web called X-10. He has our bedroom lights hooked up to one of these things. Our AC is also hooked up. It does help him to wake up to the light but does nada for me.
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