![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dj on October 16, 1999, at 13:00:14
Drives Them is a book by psychotherapist and author George Weinberg, which I am currently reading. Early on in the book he makes the following comments which I found intriguing and suspect that some folks on the babble board may relate to:
"Not surprsingly, people with compulsions are often also quite depressed. In many cases the depression came first. The person sought refuge from it in some way -- through gambling or working around the clock -- and in the process became compulsive.
But even if they weren't especially depressed to start with, once a compulsion becomes full-blown it leads to depression. What could be worse than feeling helpless to quit some activity! Having resolved to stop doing anything evidently pointless and repetitious, only to discover that one can't stop, this is ample reason to be depressed."
Finally, people who become compulsive often expect too much of themselves, and their inability to meet those standards (no compulsive person is ever truly statisfied with his or her own performance) can itself lead to depression."Makes sense to me. Anyone relate to this brief excerpt??
Posted by dove on October 17, 1999, at 11:20:16
In reply to Invisible Masters: Compulsions & the Fear that.., posted by dj on October 16, 1999, at 13:00:14
Yes! I have never once met my own standards or goals. I've spent my entire life as my own personal failure. I watched others set their goals, succeed and they felt so empowered. It made me green with envy but never changed my outlook. And the depression only adds to that, I see reality while others see their reality completely filtered through their dreams and positivity for the future.
Seeking refuge in compulsions that insulate in the beginning and turn into bondage later is very common and not just for those of us on this board. Society as a whole commits these acts everyday. When the compulsion is unacceptable or visibly negative, it's recognized long before those compulsions that produce good 'fruit'. You put too much into your job and it has a negative effect on your family but gains you promotions and more money.
just thinking aloud,
dove
Posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 17, 1999, at 18:53:53
In reply to Re: Invisible Masters: Compulsions & the Fear that.., posted by dove on October 17, 1999, at 11:20:16
It seems that whatever path I choose to make a better
life for myself, something interferes and it's over.I want to go to nursing school so badly, but I fear
things aren't going to work out in that direction,
and there is no way I can continue where I'm working
for more than a couple of more months.I think I have a lot to offer, but others seem to
believe I'm just sub-marginal. I'm tired of being
over-qualified for what I do, but it seems to be
a way of life. And I don't want this anymore.I can't take being a failure anymore. I fail at
everything -- jobs, finances, relationships, life
in general.
Posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 17, 1999, at 18:57:42
In reply to Huge failure, posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 17, 1999, at 18:53:53
And, big deal about medicine. It helps me cope
day-to-day, gets me out of bed, whatever. It
doesn't take the real depression away or the
failure. There's no "failure" drug out there. Drugs
have no effect on being a failure.
Posted by Bob on October 17, 1999, at 20:20:53
In reply to PS: Huge failure, posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 17, 1999, at 18:57:42
GO ahead and get it out of your system, Janey ... but don't you believe that for one instant!
Posted by Bob on October 17, 1999, at 20:55:30
In reply to Re: PS: Huge failure, posted by Bob on October 17, 1999, at 20:20:53
Don't define yourself with THEIR terms, Jane.
You look at the people on this board, and you try to tell us we're failures. Go ahead. I know you can't do it. And we're all just like you. We all have our disorders but we all have our gifts ... and if the outside world can't get past their bigotry, their prejudice, and their cynicism to see us for our gifts, then to Hell with them! You're just like us, Janey Girl, and we like it that way.
Hang in there, you're more than strong enough!
Bob
Posted by katie on October 18, 1999, at 11:52:42
In reply to Invisible Masters: Compulsions & the Fear that.., posted by dj on October 16, 1999, at 13:00:14
> Drives Them is a book by psychotherapist and author George Weinberg, which I am currently reading. Early on in the book he makes the following comments which I found intriguing and suspect that some folks on the babble board may relate to:
> "Not surprsingly, people with compulsions are often also quite depressed. In many cases the depression came first. The person sought refuge from it in some way -- through gambling or working around the clock -- and in the process became compulsive.
> But even if they weren't especially depressed to start with, once a compulsion becomes full-blown it leads to depression. What could be worse than feeling helpless to quit some activity! Having resolved to stop doing anything evidently pointless and repetitious, only to discover that one can't stop, this is ample reason to be depressed."
> Finally, people who become compulsive often expect too much of themselves, and their inability to meet those standards (no compulsive person is ever truly statisfied with his or her own performance) can itself lead to depression."
>
> Makes sense to me. Anyone relate to this brief excerpt??*******************Boy do I. In high school and college I was always forcing myself to put my soul into everything...the only problem--it backfired and I wound up failing (at least in my mind) In real life, once I step away from the problem, I can take a deep breath and relax. By allowing myself freedom;or space away from the difficulty, I find that I'm more at peace with the situation. Everybody needs a break. I actually take too many nowadays. Also mistakes can turn into advantages, even though it may not seem that way. A change in mental perspective can put a damper on negative compulsions. It's possible to "trade" a bad compulsion for a good one, just with one little change of thought. I've done this numerous times and I'm sure alot of folks on this board have too. We all know how to change, it's just doing it that is the challenge.
Posted by katie on October 18, 1999, at 15:55:30
In reply to Re: PS: Huge failure, posted by Bob on October 17, 1999, at 20:20:53
> GO ahead and get it out of your system, Janey ... but don't you believe that for one instant!
*******DITTO!********
Posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 18, 1999, at 18:38:13
In reply to Re: PS: Huge failure, posted by katie on October 18, 1999, at 15:55:30
I never called anyone on this board a failure. I'm
the failure. It's the only thing I succeed at.
Ask my shrink. She knows.
Posted by Phil on October 18, 1999, at 19:13:38
In reply to Whatever, posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 18, 1999, at 18:38:13
> I never called anyone on this board a failure. I'm
> the failure. It's the only thing I succeed at.
> Ask my shrink. She knows.>>Jane,
Are you assuming others think you are a failure and sub-marginal?
When you are choosing a new path and 'something' always gets in the way, what is that something?
Does your shrink say,"Here comes the failure."
What exactly are you comparing yourself to?
Curious, Phil
Posted by Bob on October 18, 1999, at 23:56:13
In reply to Whatever, posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 18, 1999, at 18:38:13
> I never called anyone on this board a failure.
> I'm the failure. It's the only thing I succeed at.Hey. You're on this board, and you belong here whether you like it or not. You've identified with us in the past, so start doing it now. You belong here with the other not-failures.
You do know what that means, don't you? It means that you are failing at being a failure. "The sage is sick of sickness, therefore she is not sick."
Keep it up and I'll have to go one up on you. I'll have to tell you the full story of how, when I was so certain I had failed at everything (at the ripe old age of 22), I tried to kill myself ... and I failed. Completely. In every conceivable way. I botched things so bad, the university counselors who are supposed to put people like me at the time into the hospital couldn't even take me seriously.
I got you beat, janey girl. I bet you a pint of ice cream you can't come up with a more wretched, pitiful sorry excuse of a story than that ... and if I was to even TRY telling the whole thing here, all y'all out there in Babbleland (including myself) would laugh me right off this board.
Janey, if life is getting so absurd that you can't cry anymore, then its time to start laughing at it. If you can still cry, let it out.
If you can't, then start looking for the punch line.
Fuggedabowdit!
Bob
Posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 1:40:44
In reply to Re: Whatever, posted by Bob on October 18, 1999, at 23:56:13
I was thinking a lot about what you wrote, that it is a big disappointment that the meds help you get through the day to day, but you still feel lousy about your self and your life. I wrote earlier about double depression--major depressive episodes (recurrent, cyclicle) on top of an ongoing depression. The meds can help control the big dips, but then you still have to deal with the long haul of feeling sub-par. Truth is, you sound more depressed than just sub-par, but I think I understand the frustration of wanting to make changes in your life and not knowing how. I used the analogy earlier of treading water. The meds keep me from drowning, but I am still just treading water to keep my head above the surface. At the moment, I am feeling more hopeful that I can move beyond the treading water stage, but I know so well the feeling of futility that maybe I will always be stuck in that place. Janey, you are still depressed. Maybe you need a med adjustment to increase the antidepressant effect. We can all suggest ways for you to try to move out of the frame you are in, ie seeing yourself as a failure, but I get the feeling you can't move out of it because you are still depressed, your medication is not fully effective. Beyond that, though, please know that it IS possible break out of the mindset of seeing everything you do as a failure and expecting only more failure. There are lots of people here with ideas of how to work on that. Are you in a place where you can recieve those kinds of suggestions? Or do you need to address the medication first?
Posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 9:02:58
In reply to Re: Whatever, posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 1:40:44
Janey, mood is everything.
Last night I was a bit pollyannaish, I think, because my mood was good. Today I feel like grossness personified. I was thinking yet again about your post re: feeling like a failure. I feel that a lot, too, but when my mood is good, I can defend against it better so that it doesn't consume me and paralyze me and eat me from inside. Other times, I am not so well defended from that core self concept of being bad, no good, disgusting, repulsive, etc. etc. When I am in my worst depressions, I am convinced of those things. When in a good mood, I can see them as self perceptions related to my long history of depression, as well as resulting in the lack of empathy my mom had for me when I was a kid.
Ok, so today, my mood is "eh". Today is my morning off, and I have no clean clothes to wear. I was planning to be up at regular time, do laundry, collect stuff to go to the cleaners, etc. But I couldn't get up on time. I struggled with myself about calling in sick, and decided not to because there are people depending on me to be there today. I rushed and got two small loads in (I have to go out of the building and around the corner to use the laundry machines), got myself a cup of coffee and a bagel, and zoomed right back here to connect to you guys. I feel gross. My apartment is as gross as one could imagine. REALLY GROSS. Since I haven't showered yet today (waiting for clothes to be clean), my person is gross, too. Ironically, I have a gross next door neighbor. He is developmentally disabled. A few months ago the neighbors all got together to complain about him to the management, because the smell coming from his apartment was beginning to become intolerable. I was the only one not to sign the petition. I felt a less adversarial route should be attempted first. So I advised the manager to insist that the neighbor's closest relative come to talk about how to deal with it. I told them he is likely eligible for some kind of home care services. Anyway, his mother and stepfather came from out of state for the "smell summit". They sent a letter to the neighbors telling us that a homemaker would be visiting regularly to clean the apartment and advise him on regular hygiene, etc. With my not going in on the petition, one of the neighbors was irritated with me. Now, because my own apartment is super, yes I'll use that word again, gross, I always slink in and out, making sure to NEVER leave the door open enough for anyone to see in. But I started getting really paranoid and noticed this one neighbor, the petition leader, trying to sneak a look inside my den of grossness. Oy. I also worry that some plumbing in the building will break and the super will have to come in to my apartment to fix it and will see how disgusting it is. I want to clean it, and have several times, it just keeps reverting to its state of wildness. My therapist calls it my "lair". It is a bit like the hideaway of some animal that hoardes trash and junk. Total chaos, mixture of recycling, trash, dirty clothes, papers, important stuff, nonimportant stuff all mixed together covering every spot of floor and furniture. I haven't used my kitchen in many many months, what with the piled up stuff in there. I use plastic forks and buy as mucn prepared foof as I can (also not good for finances). It has progressed I think from a symptom of my depression to one of OCD or something. It is way too overwhelming to deal with. My personal habits have become so incredibly gross and I am amazed at it myself. But it is like I dissociate about it all. I survive by not really seeing it. ANd I live this dual life--inside the apartment and outside, although now my car is starting to look like my apartment, too.
So, Janey, a long-winded way of telling you some of the ways I feel like a failure, too. writing this has been helpful. I laughed at some of it as I was writing, and humor is always healing. Coming out of the deep depression makes me face the mess, literally, and figuratively (all the friendships I have abandoned, financial problemsm, etc.) that my life has become, and what is more depressing than that? But I still do believe (pollyanna here) that there is hope. I get that belief, in large part, from my connection with all of you here on this board. Gotta go, late for putting the wash in the dryer. Oy, I am going to be late for work, which always makes me hate myself a little, as it confirms that feeling of failure. So hard to break away from Babble.....
Posted by dove on October 19, 1999, at 9:47:09
In reply to Re: Whatever, posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 9:02:58
Firstly, Noa, thank you so much for sharing, seriously. You're descriptions definitely lightened my mood, and yes I relate, completely. My disorganization is monumental. My entire childhood with my, OCD super-clean and 90 degree angled pen's and books, father was wrought with constant failure and shame. I am the worst house-keeper. My biggest failure has always been my messiness.
When I became a mother I had to learn to clean for real and for the first time, because it mattered. I have struggled and fought with my overwhelmed mind and weak spirit. My mom told me she was going to take my children away and I upped her by getting the public nurse to come to my house to show me and tell me how bad I really was.
I was frightened out of my mind, convinced I had just signed my own death warrant and I was going to lose my children. My husband agreed with this opinion and begged me to reconsider. I called her to cancel a couple hours beforehand and she was already out for the day doing her rounds.
She showed up, walked in and asked me if the baby was sick, I hesitantly said no and she said I should put the funky diapers in a separate garbage from the regular garbage. HA-HA! Yes, that did make quite a difference in the aroma in our house. Aside from that, she said I was disorganized but not too bad and she could see I was trying and she really encouraged me. She gave me pointers and different trouble-shooting ideas.
I am still the worst housekeeper but I really do try and I consciously ignore my parents and my inlaws and my husbands smart-mouth comments. I have to do my best and forget about the rest or I will always be a failure. My kids are learning as they get older(oldest is 9) that I can't do it alone.
Long winded as usual but this really struck a cord, that failure always lurking inside me. What I did learn is that I am my own worst enemy and I had to go forward ignoring, actually ignoring my previous failures. We have to go forward, other people don't relent when they fail, even publicly fail, they still take that gamble. That is hard for me to do, I don't want to try anything I'm going to fail at.
I'll close with this: I can relate and I truly do know those feelings and thoughts and I'm with ya all the way. Be encouraged, you're not alone.
dove~
Posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 9:57:29
In reply to Re: Whatever, posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 9:02:58
First, let me say, that this medium is so great. It is like group therapy only if I were to ever try to say this much in a group, I would drive everyone else away. Where else can one wax reflective without feeling exposed? I can stand on my virtual soapbox and not worry about people walking away. They can read it or not, and I'll never really know. Just writing it helps. Knowing that at least some are reading helps even more.
Ok, so the details of the laundry saga reflect a bigger problem...I got there to transfer from washer to dryer and woulnd't ya know, one of the machines was on "unbalanced" (a condition I can relate to). There were still 12 minutes left to the wash cycle. AARRGGHH. Now I am really going to be late for work. So I says to myself, you know you shouldn't wait until the last minute, there are always unforseen glitches, blah blah blah. I know that, I says back to myself, I am not a stupid person. But the truth is, I find myself in this type of situation ALL THE TIME. I have always procrastinated (see thread about school performance above) big time. As I was walking back from the laundry room, I was thinking about why I do this. I think I really literally need the adrenaline produced by the last minute rush, to motivate myself to do anything. I think my depressive tendencies make me adrenaline deficient (I know that my effexor attempts to beef up the noradrenaline system). Despite how AWFUL the anxious rushed feeling feels, as it is accompanied by self anger and feeling like a failure, I must need that adrenaline more than I need to not feel bad about myself. OK, bad syntax, I hope you can still get what I mean. I mean that I am obviously willing to endure the awfulness of feeling late and rushed and hating myself for it as confirmation of my indadequacies, as a trade off of getting my adrenaline pumping. Gotta go again. See you guys tonight.
Posted by Bob on October 19, 1999, at 16:12:59
In reply to Re: Whatever , posted by dove on October 19, 1999, at 9:47:09
> I am still the worst housekeeper but I really do try and I consciously ignore my parents and my inlaws and my husbands smart-mouth comments.
Dove, if they want to stick their noses in your business, tell them to shut up and pitch in. It shouldn't be only *your* business anyway, even if you're a full-time stay-at-home mom.
It always reminds me of the mess left behind in my classroom each day back when I was teaching. I always wanted to shout at my students, "We have janitors because you DO throw trash on the floor, not so that you CAN throw trash on the floor."
... gonna have to put on my steel-toed boots again ...
Bob
Posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 19, 1999, at 18:56:50
In reply to Re: Whatever , posted by Bob on October 19, 1999, at 16:12:59
Noa and Dove,
Everything you have written is or has been my life
in the past and present.I wonder if our messiness and procrastination is
just one more way to keep people away. Another
part of the perfectionism in my life is that
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is allowed in my apartment unless
it is spotless -- not family or friends, anyone.Still failing,
jane
Posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 22:42:55
In reply to Noa and Dove... are we all the same person?, posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 19, 1999, at 18:56:50
I seem to be having trouble getting my posts to go through tonight.
Janey, I used to be a neatnik, and would be ashamed to let people see my apartment if it weren't in perfect tip top shape. HAH. I wish I had some of my old perfectionism back. Now my apartment is -- and I cannot stress this
enough -- *****REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY GROOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSS!!!!!*********** So of course, no one is allowed in. YUCK they would be sick. I don't know How I live here. I think I dissociate from it.
Posted by Bob on October 20, 1999, at 9:33:15
In reply to Re: Noa and Dove... are we all the same person?, posted by Noa on October 19, 1999, at 22:42:55
I've long noticed a correlation between the degree of order to my living space and the degree of order to my thinking and emotional state. Now, the obvious next step would be to say that the causal link is that a disordered mind will produce a disorderly living space.
I beg to differ.
I have it based upon my own empirical research into this area (N=1, longitudinal study going on its, oh, 20th year or so) that while the exact causal mechanisms that lead to the "unkempt mind, unkempt home" syndrome (UKUH), efforts to restore order that focus on cleaning up your room to clean up your mind have a significantly and substantially greater effect than working on the mind to restore external order. In my extensive research on UKUH, there is significant evidence of bidirectional causality in the relationship between these two variables, in that the initial disorder of the mind may influence just how much order can be brought about by the external ordering of one's home. In other words, the therapeutic measure commonly referred to as "clean up your room" is a self-limiting process and there comes a point of diminishing returns in conducting such a cleaning. In deed, further efforts to clean beyond this point may actually reverse prior gains in internal orderliness. This suggests a curvilinear response of UKUH to this measure, indicating an Optimal Degree of Order (ODO). We speculate (I'm a researcher, so I'm allowed to use the Royal We without actually being a monarch or having tapeworm) that exceeding one's ODO for an extended period of time can lead to two complications of mental order. Complication A involves an increased drive to attain outward order, believing that this will produce the desired mental effect. Such Type A patients show an intense and perpetual desire for order and actually show moments of deep satisfaction upon finishing a cleaning task. However, like a house of cards, this elevated mood crashes once the thrill of the cleaning act has diminished and one's own inner state returns. Complications of Type B follow a route which is the converse of Type A. Type B patients work long past their ODO as well, but receive no reinforcement from the extended cleaning activity. The more the Type B cleans, the less efficacious she believes the act of cleaning and organizing to be in combatting UKUH. This quickly leads to a state of learned helplessness, as Type Bs will abandon any attempt at improving internal order through ordering their external world. Both these points are, as yet, matters of conjecture based upon anecdotal evidence and personal communications with fellow UKUH researchers. It should also be noted that there is a growing rift in the UKUH research community. On one hand are the traditionalists, who stand by the internal/external order distinction as the primary relationship of concern. Lately, however, there have been some who have put forth the notion that mental disorder might actually be influenced by factors other than how clean and orderly one's living space is. While our own research shows a great deal of support for the ODO hypothesis, we are intrigued by the notion that mental disorder may have co-determinants other than one's degree of personal environmental order. Clearly, more research needs to be done in order to ascertain what these co-determinants might be, and how they interact with the variables in the ODO treatment model for UKUH.
(In other words, if anyone from the NIMH is listening out there, I wouldn't mind a few bucks -- you know, just one, two, maybe three million dollars or so. It would be money well spent, I assure you. I'll give you all the numbers you need to make those GPRA hounds happy!)
Bob (definitely NOT Dr.!)
Posted by dove on October 20, 1999, at 10:53:53
In reply to inside outside, posted by Bob on October 20, 1999, at 9:33:15
Bob, you are killin' me!!
And yet, I would have to agree with your observations, my Dad is Type A and I'm a definite Type B. I would give you the coinage if I had it, just to prove my Dad wrong (Ha!)
love ya!
dove
Posted by Julie on October 21, 1999, at 17:17:51
In reply to inside outside, posted by Bob on October 20, 1999, at 9:33:15
> I've long noticed a correlation between the degree of order to my living space and the degree of order to my thinking and emotional state. Now, the obvious next step would be to say that the causal link is that a disordered mind will produce a disorderly living space.
>
> I beg to differ.
>
> I have it based upon my own empirical research into this area (N=1, longitudinal study going on its, oh, 20th year or so) that while the exact causal mechanisms that lead to the "unkempt mind, unkempt home" syndrome (UKUH), efforts to restore order that focus on cleaning up your room to clean up your mind have a significantly and substantially greater effect than working on the mind to restore external order. In my extensive research on UKUH, there is significant evidence of bidirectional causality in the relationship between these two variables, in that the initial disorder of the mind may influence just how much order can be brought about by the external ordering of one's home. In other words, the therapeutic measure commonly referred to as "clean up your room" is a self-limiting process and there comes a point of diminishing returns in conducting such a cleaning. In deed, further efforts to clean beyond this point may actually reverse prior gains in internal orderliness. This suggests a curvilinear response of UKUH to this measure, indicating an Optimal Degree of Order (ODO). We speculate (I'm a researcher, so I'm allowed to use the Royal We without actually being a monarch or having tapeworm) that exceeding one's ODO for an extended period of time can lead to two complications of mental order. Complication A involves an increased drive to attain outward order, believing that this will produce the desired mental effect. Such Type A patients show an intense and perpetual desire for order and actually show moments of deep satisfaction upon finishing a cleaning task. However, like a house of cards, this elevated mood crashes once the thrill of the cleaning act has diminished and one's own inner state returns. Complications of Type B follow a route which is the converse of Type A. Type B patients work long past their ODO as well, but receive no reinforcement from the extended cleaning activity. The more the Type B cleans, the less efficacious she believes the act of cleaning and organizing to be in combatting UKUH. This quickly leads to a state of learned helplessness, as Type Bs will abandon any attempt at improving internal order through ordering their external world. Both these points are, as yet, matters of conjecture based upon anecdotal evidence and personal communications with fellow UKUH researchers. It should also be noted that there is a growing rift in the UKUH research community. On one hand are the traditionalists, who stand by the internal/external order distinction as the primary relationship of concern. Lately, however, there have been some who have put forth the notion that mental disorder might actually be influenced by factors other than how clean and orderly one's living space is. While our own research shows a great deal of support for the ODO hypothesis, we are intrigued by the notion that mental disorder may have co-determinants other than one's degree of personal environmental order. Clearly, more research needs to be done in order to ascertain what these co-determinants might be, and how they interact with the variables in the ODO treatment model for UKUH.
>
> (In other words, if anyone from the NIMH is listening out there, I wouldn't mind a few bucks -- you know, just one, two, maybe three million dollars or so. It would be money well spent, I assure you. I'll give you all the numbers you need to make those GPRA hounds happy!)
> Bob (definitely NOT Dr.!)
hey Bob,You're not some kind of teacher are you? Yikes! (actually that was pretty funny.)I too, am exceedingly ashamed of my messiness. But now, at last I have an EXCUSE. Yeah. Procrastination, needing the adrenaline push, financial dissaray and other "bad habits" can be attributed to ADD. Okay now, I feel better knowing this, but where do I go from here?
Posted by Eve on October 21, 1999, at 21:51:52
In reply to Re: inside outside, posted by Julie on October 21, 1999, at 17:17:51
This was fun and funny. Just what I needed. My hubby accuses me of having a "pig sty" or a "sterile operating room." When I finally get it done, it really bugs me that it only stays done until the next meal. Then it is back to square one, when I get discouraged. Will this ever end? I find that constantly taking "baby steps" when things get turned upside down really helps. I have to push myself not to ever quit trying.
Keep on Keeping on, Eve
Posted by Bob on October 21, 1999, at 23:28:22
In reply to Re: inside outside, posted by Julie on October 21, 1999, at 17:17:51
> hey Bob,You're not some kind of teacher are you? Yikes! (actually that was pretty funny.)
Teacher, psychologist, researcher, origami expert, openly depressed and damn proud of it thank you, secret agent with Her Majesty's Secret Service, license to kill ... damn, there go those delusions of grandeur again.
I don't know the first thing about origami.
Hey Eve, tell your hubby if he don't like it, lump it. Men can be such pigs. Zheeesh! You have better things to do with your time than listen to his complaints, particularly when he's old enough to clean things up or mess things up on his own, such as getting on-line and chatting with us! ;^)
And now, back to our regularly scheduled thread:
You want gross? Get a big dog that sheds non-stop. I just feel sorry for the folks who now occupy my previous apartment....
Bob
Posted by lynn on October 22, 1999, at 9:11:03
In reply to Re: inside outside, posted by Bob on October 21, 1999, at 23:28:22
> You want gross? Get a big dog that sheds non-stop. I just feel sorry for the folks who now occupy my previous apartment....
>
> Bob
Bob: You are absolutely on target -- having a large, shedding dog catapults one to a new level of messiness...no matter how much you sweep or vacuum, hair finds its way everywhere. It wends its way into corners, it meanders behind toilet bowls, it leap-frogs into beds and under pillowcases and into shoes and CD players and windowsills -- even contact lense cases! I think that dog owners become shameless pretty quickly. I mean, think of all the utterly disgusting but somehow endearing things that dogs do...when I get into a hairless, dirtless bed (i.e. at a hotel or a non-dog owner's house), my first instinct is surprise -- like, oh, so THIS is how sheets are supposed to feel :)
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.