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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMY II on September 22, 1999, at 17:17:18
I have been diagnosed with severe anxiety (which i disagree) and i get this feeling in my head aside from the out of control crazy one that feels weird and tight and spacy kinda balloon like and when i look into the mirror my eyes are sooo dialated it is scary. Everytime I go to see the doctor my eyes are fine so he says they are fine. duh. I have weird out of control thoughts like i can't control anything i think it just pops in there and it is all gross. i have hiorrific nightnares, muscle jerking , flinching, i had a weird boioioioing noise go off in my head last night that i could hear physcially with my ears. I have buzzing feeling through all of my nerves. I have a weird sharp pain in my chest in a specific location, i have a weird pain in the center of my left palm. This is anxiety? I don't think do. I am a single mother of two kid and own a house and business i made a stupid mistake five months ago and took the drug ecstacy. i thnk something is going on with me severely like i am dyng or something or i have brain damage and it is getting worse or something. I am so scared. the doctors or pychiatrists are no help all they say is i have anxiety.Does anyone else suffer from these types of symptoms the dialated eyes and weid feelings in the head especially.. Not to mention the weird vision problems i have. nothing is stable anymore and ativan use to work for mos tof this but it doesn't work anymore. I am afraid my brain is going to explode. If you have ever had your body injected with iodine for a cat scan and know how that feels that is the best way i can describe this weird rush i get sometimes too all over my body. My quality of life has dwindled to nothing. I use to be a model and had things really going for me. and now i am barely hanging on to realtiy, to my sanity. If someone out there can tell me if they have these symptoms too i would appreciate it and especially i would like an answer about the weird head feelings and dialated eyes. please share ANY similiar experiences. Thanks
Amy
Posted by Ian on September 22, 1999, at 19:22:51
In reply to dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by AMY II on September 22, 1999, at 17:17:18
> Your brain won't explode, but you've been Knocked out of whack. I had an experience 6 years ago in amsterdam with a spacecake. It rifled my cognitive a ablities and started severe thought cycles in me involving religion, self doubts wondering whether it was game over as my head was a waste of space. I've got back on track in many ways although I'm still adapting. One thing I found is that you have to get back to basics-
> You can argue indefinately about the philosophical intricacies of life but the facts are
> If you dont eat you starve
> If someone hits you it'll hurt.
> If you don't pay the bills they keep coming.
> You need sleep
> A sunny day will lift your spirits
> You can probably still have a joke with a friend.
>
> I slowly started again from basics and have learnt to minimise and adapt round a relative cognitive haze in my head.
> One of the most relieving moments around the time of me going to Amsterdam was when I went rowing.
> Here I was on the river having to concentrate on keeping in time with the other seven in my boat just concentrating on pulling up to my chest then down to my lap and then out again. After that row I felt clearer than I'd felt for a few weeks. It had acted as a sort of meditation breaking the derealising cognitive cycle I was in for an hour or so. If you can find the time try and find your own physical meditation, something that requires your attention but not your intellect.
> Paper thats the other thing, while your brains a mush write things down on paper then put the paper somewhere your not going to forget about it.
> Hang in there your brain will eventually smooth out the ruffles induced by your 'trip'.Try to get bck to the bog standard indisputable basics.
> Finally it may feel like it but your not alone
>
> All the best
> Ian
Posted by Jennie on September 22, 1999, at 21:47:42
In reply to an offering, posted by Ian on September 22, 1999, at 19:22:51
I think you need to keep seeing doctors and keep monitoring your symptoms very closely. Ian's suggestions are great common sense, but I think you need good consistent medical care, maybe not even from a psychiatrist (unless you are a hyperchondriac). Jennei
Posted by Noa on September 22, 1999, at 22:42:53
In reply to Re: an offering, posted by Jennie on September 22, 1999, at 21:47:42
While it is possible that the symptoms you describe are related to a severe anxiety problem, it certainly is hard to settle on that as the explanation without investigating further, because anxiety doesn't feel like the explanation to you. Have you seen a neurologist? Could you have some kind of seizure disorder or severe migraines?
Posted by Ian on September 23, 1999, at 2:36:15
In reply to an offering, posted by Ian on September 22, 1999, at 19:22:51
Just a few other things. Whilst the ecstasy you took is probably responsible for some of the symptoms I'm sure the secondary effect of you having these things is for you to be scared stiff.If your scared your pupils will dilate (also if your interested in something-eastern traders have known that for centuries). If you are anxious you can get all sorts of muscular pains and hyper ventilate despite feeling your not getting enough air. If you hyperventilate you will get 'tingling' in your hands,feet around the mouth and can also get twitching in your arms.It will make you dizzy. Try doing it deliberately on your bed. The worst thing that can happen is that you'll faint and then your body will start breathing as if you were asleep.
Ecstasy takers talk of having 'a jaw'-their jaw tenses up.E's contain differing amounts of E and amphetamine, they can be hallucinogenic and the way I see it if you have a severely horrifc experience you may get a post traumatic stress syndrome with flash backs whether it drug induced or not. That will lessen with time, but getting back to basics will help recalibrate your brain back to its normal set point and iron out all those false neuronal connections created while under the effects of E.
I think its interesting that E users can listen to 'music' that bores the pants of most people and see inner meanings.This I think is the same as what I described above but in a positive sense. I haven't decided whether rave is substance augmented music abuse or music augmented substance abuse.
Anyhow must get on rather than babbling psycholy
Ian
Posted by saint james on September 23, 1999, at 3:51:32
In reply to dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by AMY II on September 22, 1999, at 17:17:18
> I have been diagnosed with severe anxiety (which i disagree) and i get this feeling in my head aside from the out of control crazy one that feels weird and tight and spacy kinda balloon like and when i look into the mirror my eyes are sooo dialated it is scary.
James here...
Ian and others make good points. E, XTC and LSD tend to unseat existing problems and maginify them in some people. With medical treatment, support, and a year to recover most in your condition do recover. Now you know, these kind of drugs cause problems for you, so don't do them again.
james
Posted by AMY II on September 23, 1999, at 11:40:50
In reply to Re: dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by saint james on September 23, 1999, at 3:51:32
Thanks everybody for the response.. I am sitting here right now with ths god awful pain shooting on the inside ofmyb shoulder all the way up my neck and is givingme w wierd pain in my ebow and in my head. What is that? I feel like at any minute i am going to have an anurizm.(sp) This is rally scary and I know I just know this isn't anxiety. Does tis even sound like something else? Can ecstacy cause you to have a heart attack or stroke or epilepsy 5 and ahalf months after thr fact? What part of the brain causes this? I do have a thread on here that goes into detail of all my symptoms if someone wants to help me out and help me figure tis out. I have seen a neurologist and he syas i put my brain out of wack and i just need to get it back on track so he prescribed zoloft and ativan. I swear i think this zoloft is making it worse. Do you feel worse the first couple weeks that you take these types f meds? Do you usually feel worse before you get better? Is it possible that my chemicals will never go back to normal? Since it is a chemical thing will it re route itself eventually? Does anyone know if the brain can do that or if the brain usually does that? Does anybody know where i can find out abou tsomeone having very similiar experiences from high dose of ecstacy? Please help
Amy
Posted by Ian on September 23, 1999, at 12:38:06
In reply to Re: dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by AMY II on September 23, 1999, at 11:40:50
I think its possible zoloft could make things worse, as its a serotonin uptake inhibitor. Ecstasy works by causing massive serotonin release so in theory they are pushing your brain in the same way. I think what ever you do you need supervision as its easy to pass judgement in internet land. I'd discuss your feelings with the doc who prescibed the zoloft and perhaps get a second opinion. The lorazepam (ativan) should help in the short term.
Posted by Noa on September 23, 1999, at 13:39:49
In reply to Re: dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by Ian on September 23, 1999, at 12:38:06
one more thing to think about...could the arm/shoulder/head pain be related to computer use? I have had that. This would not address the other symptoms, just the last one you mentioned.
Posted by Jennie on September 23, 1999, at 22:32:18
In reply to One more thing to think about..., posted by Noa on September 23, 1999, at 13:39:49
prozac made me feel much worse before it began to help - for at least the first 5 days. I started to notice an improvement on day 12.
Jennie
Posted by MA on October 1, 1999, at 20:05:36
In reply to dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by AMY II on September 22, 1999, at 17:17:18
Are the dilated pupils related to taking new medication?
Some of the worse side effects I had began with dilated pupils. If you are on Zoloft you may be on too much or the drug may just be the wrong one for you. There are many other medications for anxiety than Zoloft. Paxil works well for many people.
You shouldn't be having so many side effects for such a long period of time. Keep insisting to your doctor that you feel really badly. I now know that if I have dilated pupils, it usually means the dose is too high. At least that's how my body reacts.
MA
Posted by dove on October 12, 1999, at 9:31:54
In reply to Re: dialated eyes! weird feeling in my head, posted by MA on October 1, 1999, at 20:05:36
Amy, I hope you're doing better? Just thought I would pass this info on to you. Let us know how you're doing. My thoughts are with you.
~dove
MDMA or Ecstasy"3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or "Ecstasy") was first synthesized 80 years ago (Green et al 1995). It has recently received prominence as an recreational drug of abuse. There is a belief among misusers that it is safe. In the last 2-3 years there have been a number of reports of the drug producing severe acute toxicity and death and there are concerns that it may cause long term toxic damage to 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) nerve terminals.
Acute clinical toxicity results in a serotonin syndrome that can be fatal. The recent increase in the number of reports of MDMA toxicity probably results from the widespread use of the drug at all night dance parties or "raves". The phenomenon of amphetamine aggregation toxicity in mice was reported 40 years ago. If applicable to MDMA-induced toxicity in humans, all the conditions necessary to induce or enhance toxicity are present at raves: crowded conditions (aggregation), high ambient temperature, loud noise and dehydrated subjects. Administration of MDMA to rodents and non-human primates results in a long term neurotoxic decrease in 5-HT content in several brain regions and there is clear biochemical and histological evidence that this reflects neurodegeneration of 5-HT terminals. Unequivocal data demonstrating that similar changes occur in human brain do not exist, but limited and indirect clinical evidence gives grounds for concern.
Psychiatric disturbances associated with MDMA abuse include depression, panic attacks, visual illusions, and paranoid psychosis. Suggestions for the rational treatment of the acute toxicity are made on the basis of both pharmacological studies in animals and current clinical practice.
Cases presenting clinically are usually emergencies and unlikely to allow carefully controlled studies. Proposals include decreasing body temperature (possibly with ice), the use of dantrolene and anticonvulsant and sedative medication, particularly benzodiazepines."
Posted by AMY II on October 13, 1999, at 13:59:21
In reply to Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by dove on October 12, 1999, at 9:31:54
> Amy, I hope you're doing better? Just thought I would pass this info on to you. Let us know how you're doing. My thoughts are with you.
> ~dove
>
>
> MDMA or Ecstasy
>
> "3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA or "Ecstasy") was first synthesized 80 years ago (Green et al 1995). It has recently received prominence as an recreational drug of abuse. There is a belief among misusers that it is safe. In the last 2-3 years there have been a number of reports of the drug producing severe acute toxicity and death and there are concerns that it may cause long term toxic damage to 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) nerve terminals.
>
> Acute clinical toxicity results in a serotonin syndrome that can be fatal. The recent increase in the number of reports of MDMA toxicity probably results from the widespread use of the drug at all night dance parties or "raves". The phenomenon of amphetamine aggregation toxicity in mice was reported 40 years ago. If applicable to MDMA-induced toxicity in humans, all the conditions necessary to induce or enhance toxicity are present at raves: crowded conditions (aggregation), high ambient temperature, loud noise and dehydrated subjects. Administration of MDMA to rodents and non-human primates results in a long term neurotoxic decrease in 5-HT content in several brain regions and there is clear biochemical and histological evidence that this reflects neurodegeneration of 5-HT terminals. Unequivocal data demonstrating that similar changes occur in human brain do not exist, but limited and indirect clinical evidence gives grounds for concern.
>
> Psychiatric disturbances associated with MDMA abuse include depression, panic attacks, visual illusions, and paranoid psychosis. Suggestions for the rational treatment of the acute toxicity are made on the basis of both pharmacological studies in animals and current clinical practice.
>
> Cases presenting clinically are usually emergencies and unlikely to allow carefully controlled studies. Proposals include decreasing body temperature (possibly with ice), the use of dantrolene and anticonvulsant and sedative medication, particularly benzodiazepines."Thank you for checking on me. However i am doing no better. Up to 100 mg of zoloft and not feeling a difference. Off ativan now and feel horrible. My eyes never sto dialating. Weird dreams dont stop. Twitching hasnt gotten any better. chest pain...worse. I was wondering, I am having a hard time comprehending everything you sent to me so does that mean "long term" as in not permenant damage? I wish I could talk to these people that are doing these studies. I swear I am one for the books. And does this mean that I might have this seratonin syndrome that can be fatal? I am confused. Please respond as quickly as possible. What saratonin syndrome is there? I definately feel I have damage to my nerves, that is for sure. By the way slept for 14 hours today. I hate this zoloft. I loved ativan. Even though it started not to work as well for me. I sure felt more normal on that than i do now. I feel no absolutely no difference. It's been almost a month. I am scared of this new information. Please tell me where you got it and maybe I can present it to my doctor and they can look into it. Instead of just thinking i have anxiety. I then can download it and print it out. I cant do that on this site. Thanks so much. It means alot. Keep in touch guys. Hangin on, AMY II
Posted by dove on October 13, 1999, at 15:02:58
In reply to Re: Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by AMY II on October 13, 1999, at 13:59:21
"And does this mean that I might have this seratonin syndrome that can be fatal?"
No, that danger has already passed and gone, you are on the other side. Though you may be sensitive to other meds that act on the 5-HT terminals [Maybe someone else can put this in laymen's terms?].
I believe I found this info on Medscape, I'll try to get the exact link and post after dinner. I wanted to reassure you that what you are experiencing could be an ecstasy-potentiated panic attacks and paranoia, along with the physical sensations that accompany that.
You are not going to die but you may feel these sensations for awhile and the Ativan probably helped relieve these symptoms. I know it's hard to believe that what you're feeling isn't actually going to harm you but it's true. I have had panic attacks most of my life, I used to think I had a bad heart because it hurt so often. Fortunately for me, my heart is not bad just my nerves. So keep hanging on, we're all still here. And I will try to find where that info is located. Take care.
~dove
Posted by AMY II on October 15, 1999, at 12:47:02
In reply to Re: Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by dove on October 13, 1999, at 15:02:58
> "And does this mean that I might have this seratonin syndrome that can be fatal?"
>
> No, that danger has already passed and gone, you are on the other side. Though you may be sensitive to other meds that act on the 5-HT terminals [Maybe someone else can put this in laymen's terms?].
>
> I believe I found this info on Medscape, I'll try to get the exact link and post after dinner. I wanted to reassure you that what you are experiencing could be an ecstasy-potentiated panic attacks and paranoia, along with the physical sensations that accompany that.
>
> You are not going to die but you may feel these sensations for awhile and the Ativan probably helped relieve these symptoms. I know it's hard to believe that what you're feeling isn't actually going to harm you but it's true. I have had panic attacks most of my life, I used to think I had a bad heart because it hurt so often. Fortunately for me, my heart is not bad just my nerves. So keep hanging on, we're all still here. And I will try to find where that info is located. Take care.
> ~dove
THANK YOU Dove for the reassurance. I need it so bad being since these doctors just dont know what to say. They are actually doing a study at John Hopkins University on side effects that damage the brain from ecstacy use you have to stay in the hospital for a week. Its free and maybe they would know more about what is going on than these regular doctors do. I just dont forsee this going away it has been 6 months and I was a completely normal person before all of this. I just more and more think there is some kindo f damage ya now? Maybe thats all just part of the anxiety. I cant get this weird feeling out of my head. I sometimes get this weird dark tunnel vision and feel really light headed and almost pass out. Is that anxiety too? It happens for no reason. One other thing, my head seems to feel worse the day after i drink. I feel more horrible than usual the next day., Not just hangover stuff. Just like my nervous system is all screwed up. I wish they could just keep me on something that worked for me. At least 80 percent of the time anyway. Ativan. I guess they say coming off of it makes your anxiety actually worse than better. If ativan works does that mean that zoloft will eventually work as good? God I hope so. I need a miracle here. I hope to God that this is all gonna calm down and my brain will return to normal. what do you think my chances of that happening are? Dazed and Confused, Amy
Posted by Bob on October 15, 1999, at 13:51:41
In reply to Re: Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by AMY II on October 15, 1999, at 12:47:02
You know the old one ... "Doc, my arm hurts whenever I do this" Doc: "Well, don't do that anymore." It might be a good idea to keep clear of alcohol until you get this straightened out, especially if you're drinking enough to give you a hangover. Remember, too, that ativan and zoloft are in completely different classes of drugs. I can see why your doc would have wanted to use a benzo like ativan at first, to help you get through the first phase of the treatment, but if the zoloft isn't addressing the anxiety issues then you may have to take another look at an anti-anxiety med. From what I recall on this board, ativan and xanax have both gotten bad reviews for long-term use. I take clonazepam (generic), others take klonopin (brandname) ... some have had problems with klonopin similar to ativan and xanax in terms of dependency, others have said that clonazepam is nowhere near as efficacious as the real klonopin. If true, that's probably a good thing for me since I'm responding very well to a low dose of clonazepam. Then there's zyprexa, which I haven't heard a lot about on this board.
The Hopkins study may be worth your while, if it doesn't cause too much disruption in other parts of your life (tho it sounds like things are disrupted enough the way they stand). One thing my doctor warned me about just yesterday about clinical trials. You have to remember that they are in the game for a publication out of this work. Ethical doctors will see to your needs, but many will be too busy, too caught up in their work, or too caught up in trying to get more money and publications. So you may only get the care you need, and nothing more.
Bob
Posted by dove on October 15, 1999, at 15:03:46
In reply to Re: Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by AMY II on October 15, 1999, at 12:47:02
Amy-
I put the web-address for the full report which is titled "Stimulant Psychosis" below, I hope it works, just copy and paste I think.http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/26.html
I think that you could have had a vulnerability to the anxiety-disorder in the first place and then the ecstasy just gave it a kick-start. Or maybe the ecstasy is the culprit all-around. Is there any family history of anxiety disorders or depression or anything? This could be short-term illness or not, any which way you look at it You need to take care of yourself and let your care-provider know how you really feeling, thinking, behaving and living.
The thing about the ativan helping you is interesting too, benzobenzodiazepines are recommended for treating ecstasy abuse or toxicity.
I know I've read a number of posts on this board discussing the length of time it takes for the anti-anxiety meds to kick in. My daughter takes Buspar and that took quite awhile to say the least. So, maybe the Zoloft will kick in soon (how long have you been taking therapeutic doses?)or maybe it's the wrong med. Most of us on this board have tried quite a cocktail of meds, many of which didn't do a thing but give us horrendous side-effects.
Keep searching for the answers, keep track of how you're feeling, write it down with dates and times, keep communications open between your doc and self. Get help if it gets desperate. Talk to the pro's at John Hopkins University and see what they have to offer you. A week in-house isn't too bad at all. Keep us updated and keep yourself safe.
I'll keep listening and reading :-)
dove~
Posted by sage on April 11, 2001, at 10:55:33
In reply to Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by dove on October 15, 1999, at 15:03:46
This is in responce to the person with the dialated pupils(Amy) I too sufer from those symptoms so you arent alone, As a matter of fact my head(Cerebellum) hurts now, I was going through a series of anxiety attacks aswell . My back and neck feel wierd and My pupils are almost always dialated.When I wake in the morning I dont feel the same as I use to I dont feel much energy and I am never happy. The fear is what's the worst, not knowing what to do or if it's serious. I have to say that the way we lived has put this damage in us, from the way we eat, think and the drug/alcohol abuse is the main factor of this disorder. Stress is also a big issue with people who have taken ecstacy, it munipulates your brain waves and that is no joke, we should have been more careful, we knew that it had it's effects, yet we choose to do it any way and now we are paying the price. Drugs dont work ,In fact they just make more of a hormonal change, I find that when I eat good (light) drink allot of water and surround myself around goodness it helps. Take a walk in the park, lay on the grass, press your back against the earth and look at the sky. Breating exercises help along with yoga/exercise. The road to recovery isnt easy but just watch your eating habbits and stay away from any drugs. The healing process begins with the mind. We do have the strength and power to control anxiety. Dont do any more drugs it will just worsen. I am feeling the same way you do I have practically all the symtoms you mentioned ,the sad part is I am only 23 and I havent taken the drug more than 3 times, it is one that is very harmful .I have barely been feeling these symtoms recently, New years was the last time I did x I also use to smoke pot .
GET AS MANY MASSAGE'S AS POSSIBLE AND STAY AWAY FROM THINGS THAT WILL STRESS YOU OUT SUCH AS SHOPPING MALLS ,LOUD NOISE AND CROWDED PLACES. TRY NOT TO USE THE COMPUTER SO MUCH THAT TOO CAN EFECT YOU. IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS EMAIL ME AT ESOTERIA@PACBELL.NET SAGE p/s excuse the typo's
Posted by fenno on March 29, 2007, at 22:55:10
In reply to Amy - How are You? found some info for you!, posted by dove on October 15, 1999, at 15:03:46
Hi Amy,
I have the same problem as you do and it came after using ecstasy. i have only ever had it once and was the stupidest thing i have done. But now i am feeling everything u have described. I know it has been a long time since this was posted but i would really appreciate it if u could let me know how u feel now and if u got better.
Thankyou
> Amy-
> I put the web-address for the full report which is titled "Stimulant Psychosis" below, I hope it works, just copy and paste I think.
>
> http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/26.html
>
> I think that you could have had a vulnerability to the anxiety-disorder in the first place and then the ecstasy just gave it a kick-start. Or maybe the ecstasy is the culprit all-around. Is there any family history of anxiety disorders or depression or anything? This could be short-term illness or not, any which way you look at it You need to take care of yourself and let your care-provider know how you really feeling, thinking, behaving and living.
>
> The thing about the ativan helping you is interesting too, benzobenzodiazepines are recommended for treating ecstasy abuse or toxicity.
>
> I know I've read a number of posts on this board discussing the length of time it takes for the anti-anxiety meds to kick in. My daughter takes Buspar and that took quite awhile to say the least. So, maybe the Zoloft will kick in soon (how long have you been taking therapeutic doses?)or maybe it's the wrong med. Most of us on this board have tried quite a cocktail of meds, many of which didn't do a thing but give us horrendous side-effects.
>
> Keep searching for the answers, keep track of how you're feeling, write it down with dates and times, keep communications open between your doc and self. Get help if it gets desperate. Talk to the pro's at John Hopkins University and see what they have to offer you. A week in-house isn't too bad at all. Keep us updated and keep yourself safe.
>
> I'll keep listening and reading :-)
> dove~
>
This is the end of the thread.
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