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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Laura on September 11, 1999, at 12:21:27
I appreciate your input, although I have to admit, I need to reread it several more times to fully understand all of it! :) I would love to be off all medication; actually the only thing I'm on is the anafranil, but in the past I've tried many other meds for ODC. Whenever I have been doing good, (feeling "normal") for a long period of time, I think it is time to go off of it. THAT is when I truly see how my like is/was without it. I am close to 40 now, and when I think that my 20's and early 30's could'be been much more enjoyable, safer, and more content...it saddens me that it took so long to find out about OCD and meds. I cannot seem to function without it, so if thats what finding happiness in a pill is about, well, I guess I'll have to agree. The times I do try to off of it, I literally do not sleep for nights. This on top of nightmarish thoughts intruding in your mind every few minutes is enough to do a person in. I somewhat understand your feelings from being medicated against your will at the age of 13. Not first hand, but my daughter went thru a similar situation. Due to many bouts with the law, and bipolor swings, she was hospitalized and put on lithium. It turned her against medication so drastically that she will not take anything now, even though I do not feel that is the best decision. For myself, and the situation of not sleeping and "hearing" every movement in my head, again I ask: How can I be told it is not addicting when I simply cannot seem to get off it? Use another medication to help? Does begin to seem like an endless journey.
Posted by Noa on September 11, 1999, at 18:21:23
In reply to anafranil, posted by Laura on September 11, 1999, at 12:21:27
Ian, why must it be one way or the other? I believe the relationship between biology and environment is highly interactive and interdependent. Sure, psychotherapy helps to address patterns of negative thinking, etc. But there have been studies showing how environmentally-initiated experiences have changed brain functioning and vise versa. Have you read Jamison/Goodwin textbook on Manic Depressive Illness? I think it is pretty clear that for many people, cognitive therapy is not going to make a dent in a serious illness. Breggin may have done some good work, but he is radically in one corner and it is hard for me to take him seriously anymore because his opinions are so radical and unyielding. For me, happiness does not come in a pill. Survival comes in a pill,and once I am able maintain a sufficiently functional level, I can work to build happiness for myself. But without the medication, I would either be DEAD or perpetually stuck in a hellish depression. Have you ever experienced this yourself? Do you know what it feels like?
Posted by jamie on September 11, 1999, at 19:03:17
In reply to Re: anafranil, posted by Noa on September 11, 1999, at 18:21:23
I have to agree with Noa. I've been several routes...the exercise good lifestyle thing, the psychotherapy thing, and the pharmacology thing. In my experience, nothing worked without medicine. Once medicine had an effect, then good lifestyle and psychotherapy really paid off nicely. I support whatever works for different people. I appreciate having choices that our ancestors didn't have. For me ADs aren't happy pills. Mescaline and LSD might be, but not ADs. For me, ADs allow a somewhat solid foundation on which to build. A foundation that otherwise is quicksand. Unfortunately ADs like anafranil and everything else come with side effects and withdrawals and countless changes in body chemistry, but anyone who's been mentally ill knows the alternatives are much worse.
Posted by Ian on September 11, 1999, at 20:20:41
In reply to Re: anafranil-choices, posted by jamie on September 11, 1999, at 19:03:17
I don't think I have experienced the true depression that you people must do. The most miserable I have ever been was when I was thirteen and I knew what I wasn't happy about. I look at this site and wonder whether my own reference points are correct. I feel intuitively uneasy about psychiatry due to my own experience and I feel cycles of mental illness are often created by the pharmaceutical suppresion of problems not initially addressed, after a few cycles any origins are lost in the haze and then the mental illness becomes the very real solo entity with DSM classification to match. Some people yes I think are prone to depression, I realy think its more of a capacity to feel rather than the reason for a depression. Having said all that organic causes exist hypothyroidism, head injury, encephalitis that can make people depressed. This board is probably not the right place for me to carry on but for a short while it has been good to see some other perspectives. Cognition and emotion are inextricably linked I'm afraid I still think the former drives the latter most of the time where as psychiatry presumes it works the other way around. I hope you find a system that works for you and I'll carry on for my search in pastures new.
Ian
Posted by jamie on September 12, 1999, at 7:05:02
In reply to Re: anafranil-choices, posted by Ian on September 11, 1999, at 20:20:41
Ian your insights are greatly appreciated. Will look forward to more posts from you. It's nice to have a real doc on board. I don't think any of us completely agree on causes or treatments, but input from all sides provides perspective for all to make choices. Your input will definitely make a contribution here, in medical advice as well as philosophy advice. If you search for other pastures, please check back here as often as you can. Just want you to understand you are welcome here and appreciated here. :-)
Posted by dj on September 12, 1999, at 9:21:34
In reply to Re: Welcome Ian, posted by jamie on September 12, 1999, at 7:05:02
cause & effect, effect & cause, things that help, things that harm -- it all becomes one bloody jumble after awhile. Ian if you as a doc and a curious person have questions and quandries to pose please contine to do so cuz it's all so very questionable and often more subjective than objective and all so very painful and contentious.
BTW, what do you know of the studies of smaller hippcampuses in depressed people
http://news-info.wustl.edu/feature/1996/July96-Depression.html and the effects of that?But then again perhaps we are just off into the obsessive circle of questions without answers... Relief, puhllleezzzzee...in a form that one does not necessarily need to swallow. Ian if you could apply your less cloudy mind to the value of differing options for conquering or at least curbing the beast and share that with us that would be greatly appreciated by this guy at least who is far too addicted to these sometimes melancholy and depressing psychopharm babbles....!
This is the end of the thread.
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