Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1454

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Re: ECT: and Alan's experiences

Posted by alan on December 6, 1998, at 1:02:30

In reply to Re: ECT: and Alan's experiences, posted by Nancy on December 5, 1998, at 16:48:04

> > > What adjunctive therapies do other doctors use before resorting to a program of ECT? I can only think of 25-50mcgs/day Cytomel checking response in 7-14 days or 25-50mgs/day Naltrexone checking response after two weeks. Three weeks of 5mgs t.i.d. Pindolol was a failure.
> > > I'm hesitating at being lighted-up like a christmas tree. I'm the mad scientist, not the Frankenstein.
> > > Please, save me from the electric chair.
> > > Mind Over Madness,
> > > Nancy
> > >
> > Not a doc, just got shocked. I'll be brief because II,ve replied to so many such letters. My experience of ECT was that it is simply no big deal. I.d persoally mmuch prefer ECT to Meds: faster and virtually no side effects: a little wozy for a few minutes, but not unpleasant; lost a few memories of a few days surrounding the shocks,
> > memories I had no need for. To be honest, it was kind of fun, much of the excitement of surgery without the pain. Okay, they were not effective on me, but as you know they usually are.
> > I assume it is nothing like the electric chair.
> > Again, as you know, your brain is already full of electricity.
> Thanks, Alan. I was a little "creeped out" with the idea, momentarily. Your description has helped me. I've decided to let the doc do ECT on me. My doc, Dr. Robert Horne, is a mood disorder specialist, also. So, I'm not afraid of him lacking any ability in performing the procedures.
> Dr. Horne said we're going to do two ECT sessions a day a few times a week until we've completed 6-12 treatments. This has to clear up my illness, since nothing else work. I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't happen for me. What did you do, Alan?
> Has anything you've tried made you better??? I REALLY HOPE so! It's miserable to be so sick.
> Nancy
Thank youfor your ressponse. I got my shocks back in 73, and I think they are more reliable today; e.g., I've heard they wire you up to make sure you get a siezure noww. Spme years ago I saw an estimate that 40% of ECT treatments were not properly done. That must be much diferent now. (Moreover, back then a very large % of patients did not recieve adequate doses of ADs; I know I was one of them from subsequent experience.) Certainly the rate of progress in neuroscience and psychiatry holds much promise for a future I infer you will be able to enjoy. As you know, even if you respond to no treatment--and the probability of that has become small; tho the wait is hell--you will almost certainly spend most of your life in remission. As for me, I got better in 75-76 and had a recurrence in '82 which I just rode out. Then again in '85 when I responded 'in textbook fashion', to a dosage of desipramine that was considered very dangerous in 73. I was fine for 8 years and then switched to Prozac in an effort to become easy going and charming. To some degree, that worked; the Prozac did seem to 'smooth me out' and come me down. But. it pooped out about a year ago, well only partially for I didn't miss any work. Right now, I feel almost certain that I am responding finally to Effexor after the rounds of this and that.
This is one of those times I would like to say "I'll pray for you." but I don't mess with the occult. My fervant wishes for your earliest recovery.
alan

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by Nancy on December 6, 1998, at 11:55:07

In reply to Re: ECT: and Alan's experiences, posted by alan on December 6, 1998, at 1:02:30

> >Your description has helped me. I've decided to let the doc do ECT on me. My doc, Dr. Robert Horne, is a mood disorder specialist, also. So, I'm not afraid of him lacking any ability in performing the procedures.
> > Dr. Horne said we're going to do two ECT sessions a day a few times a week until we've completed 6-12 treatments. This has to clear up my illness, since nothing else works. I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't happen for me. What did you do, Alan?
> > Has anything you've tried made you better??? I REALLY HOPE so! It's miserable to be so sick.
> > Nancy
> Thank youfor your ressponse. I got my shocks back in 73, and I think they are more reliable today; e.g., I've heard they wire you up to make sure you get a siezure noww. Spme years ago I saw an estimate that 40% of ECT treatments were not properly done. That must be much diferent now.
**Wow. You may have been cheated at a fair chance for recovery. Dr. Horne said that today's ECT is 95% effective for full recovery!!! He must have access to some REALLY NEW info. What I've read is of effectiveness between 80% and 90%.
>(Moreover, back then a very large % of patients did not recieve adequate doses of ADs; I know I was one of them from subsequent experience.) Certainly the rate of progress in neuroscience and psychiatry holds much promise for a future I infer you will be able to enjoy. As you know, even if you respond to no treatment--and the probability of that has become small; tho the wait is hell--you will almost certainly spend most of your life in remission. As for me, I got better in 75-76 and had a recurrence in '82 which I just rode out. Then again in '85 when I responded 'in textbook fashion', to a dosage of desipramine that was considered very dangerous in 73. I was fine for 8 years and then switched to Prozac in an effort to become easy going and charming. To some degree, that worked; the Prozac did seem to 'smooth me out' and come me down. But. it pooped out about a year ago, well only partially for I didn't miss any work. Right now, I feel almost certain that I am responding finally to Effexor after the rounds of this and that.
**Holy Cats! Alan, you are an inspiration. You are one of the few people with this illness who KNOWS what it's like to fight to the bitter end. Unlike those people who SAY they've had depression. Those that insist that if you don't WANT to lose your ability to work you simply CHOOSE not to lose your ability to work. As if CHOICE has anything to do with it. These people probably would have been "cured" by eating ice chips. But, what you've written about yourself shows that you have been terribly ill with a serious chemical imbalance. Alan, I think there are not many out there who understand how bad it can be. I REALLY HOPE that the Effexor is going to do it for you and NEVER "poop out".
> This is one of those times I would like to say "I'll pray for you." but I don't mess with the occult. My fervant wishes for your earliest recovery.
> alan
**I'd mess with anything if it were a proven way to put this illness into remission. I wish you all the best and that all the best that you've missed out on over the years will, finally, be within your grasp.
Mind Over Madness,
Nancy

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by Danielle on December 7, 1998, at 18:02:16

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by Nancy on December 6, 1998, at 11:55:07

Nancy: It may benefit you to go back and re-read everything you've written since Emma's first posting. At the same time you might want to re-read Janey's original attempt of encouragement. You should be the best judge. I hope you find something to help, it's clear you're feeling pretty miserable.

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by alan on December 8, 1998, at 2:37:55

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by Nancy on December 6, 1998, at 11:55:07

> > >Your description has helped me. I've decided to let the doc do ECT on me. My doc, Dr. Robert Horne, is a mood disorder specialist, also. So, I'm not afraid of him lacking any ability in performing the procedures.
> > > Dr. Horne said we're going to do two ECT sessions a day a few times a week until we've completed 6-12 treatments. This has to clear up my illness, since nothing else works. I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't happen for me. What did you do, Alan?
> > > Has anything you've tried made you better??? I REALLY HOPE so! It's miserable to be so sick.
> > > Nancy
> > Thank youfor your ressponse. I got my shocks back in 73, and I think they are more reliable today; e.g., I've heard they wire you up to make sure you get a siezure noww. Spme years ago I saw an estimate that 40% of ECT treatments were not properly done. That must be much diferent now.
> **Wow. You may have been cheated at a fair chance for recovery. Dr. Horne said that today's ECT is 95% effective for full recovery!!! He must have access to some REALLY NEW info. What I've read is of effectiveness between 80% and 90%.
> >(Moreover, back then a very large % of patients did not recieve adequate doses of ADs; I know I was one of them from subsequent experience.) Certainly the rate of progress in neuroscience and psychiatry holds much promise for a future I infer you will be able to enjoy. As you know, even if you respond to no treatment--and the probability of that has become small; tho the wait is hell--you will almost certainly spend most of your life in remission. As for me, I got better in 75-76 and had a recurrence in '82 which I just rode out. Then again in '85 when I responded 'in textbook fashion', to a dosage of desipramine that was considered very dangerous in 73. I was fine for 8 years and then switched to Prozac in an effort to become easy going and charming. To some degree, that worked; the Prozac did seem to 'smooth me out' and come me down. But. it pooped out about a year ago, well only partially for I didn't miss any work. Right now, I feel almost certain that I am responding finally to Effexor after the rounds of this and that.
> **Holy Cats! Alan, you are an inspiration. You are one of the few people with this illness who KNOWS what it's like to fight to the bitter end. Unlike those people who SAY they've had depression. Those that insist that if you don't WANT to lose your ability to work you simply CHOOSE not to lose your ability to work. As if CHOICE has anything to do with it. These people probably would have been "cured" by eating ice chips. But, what you've written about yourself shows that you have been terribly ill with a serious chemical imbalance. Alan, I think there are not many out there who understand how bad it can be. I REALLY HOPE that the Effexor is going to do it for you and NEVER "poop out".
> > This is one of those times I would like to say "I'll pray for you." but I don't mess with the occult. My fervant wishes for your earliest recovery.
> > alan
> **I'd mess with anything if it were a proven way to put this illness into remission. I wish you all the best and that all the best that you've missed out on over the years will, finally, be within your grasp.
> Mind Over Madness,
> Nancy
I think we tend to overestimate the degree of similarity in subjective 'feel' and degree of impairment between episodes of MAD in different people and even in the same person at different times. Thus we tend to think that if someone does not share our description of what 'it' is, that person can never have had it. This is not great for efective communication. MAD is rather a grab bag of miseries that merely share a fit with the coarse criteria of the latest DSM. But, of course, it can be grossly disabling in some cases and imperceptible to others in other cases. As more is learned, diagnoses more finely differentiated, and a better nomenclature developed (e.g., say, 'hyponoradrenergic' or 'Hsuing's disease') I think much of the stigma may be relieved. We also have got tto get rid of 'the mind' which inevitably suggests a ghost in the machine not subject to natural law, only to the uncaused cause of free will which mysteriously makes vice and virtue pop into the world. What am I talking about? It is geting late. The main thing is not to argue with people who can't understand these simple truths as I have revealed them.
Nancy, thank you for your kind words, but my only distinction has been to get sick. I hope you are getting zapped into normalcy.

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by MrZest on December 10, 1998, at 11:42:41

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by alan on December 8, 1998, at 2:37:55

Alan,
Do you ride a motorcycle ? BMW bike to be exact.

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by alan on December 10, 1998, at 22:23:43

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by MrZest on December 10, 1998, at 11:42:41

> Alan,
> Do you ride a motorcycle ? BMW bike to be exact.

I have never been on a motorcycle. In a moment of adventure, I did ride a scooter (no, not motorized.)

Re: ECT and Alan's experiences

Posted by alan on December 10, 1998, at 22:23:55

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by MrZest on December 10, 1998, at 11:42:41

> Alan,
> Do you ride a motorcycle ? BMW bike to be exact.

I have never been on a motorcycle. In a moment of adventure, I did ride a scooter (no, not motorized.)

Re: Thank You, Danielle

Posted by Nancy on December 13, 1998, at 17:49:29

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by Danielle on December 7, 1998, at 18:02:16

> Nancy: It may benefit you to go back and re-read everything you've written since Emma's first posting. At the same time you might want to re-read Janey's original attempt of encouragement. You should be the best judge. I hope you find something to help, it's clear you're feeling pretty miserable.
------------------------------------------------
Thank you, for responding to my cry for help, Danielle.
You're right I've been miserable. I have a lot of pain in this stage. The couple of other severe episodes over my lifetime have, also, been treatment refractive. So, why get upset over this one?
Because, I'm terrified that it won't pass like the other times. That it won't go away and let me have my life back.
Furthermore, I can't trust most or all of my perceptions and ideas. Sometimes I know that they're not real, not right. But, only sometimes. Like today, I think things are okay in my head.
But, last night, I was convinced that I should end this hell by overdosing on the 18,000+mgs of Seroquel that I have. It was absolutely the only thing I should do. Then, the antipsychotic that I'd taken an about hour before these thoughts had turned into impulse, kicked in. That's when I knew that I hadn't been thinking right.
I really appreciate you reaching out to me. It means many good things to me.
Now, Hoping For Mind Over Madness,
Nancy

Re: ECT - when Nancy?

Posted by LT on December 13, 1998, at 19:53:16

In reply to Re: ECT and Alan's experiences, posted by Nancy on December 6, 1998, at 11:55:07

> > >Your description has helped me. I've decided to let the doc do ECT on me. My doc, Dr. Robert Horne, is a mood disorder specialist, also. So, I'm not afraid of him lacking any ability in performing the procedures.
> > > Dr. Horne said we're going to do two ECT sessions a day a few times a week until we've completed 6-12 treatments. This has to clear up my illness, since nothing else works. I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't happen for me. What did you do, Alan?
> > > Has anything you've tried made you better??? I REALLY HOPE so! It's miserable to be so sick.
> > > Nancy
> > Thank youfor your ressponse. I got my shocks back in 73, and I think they are more reliable today; e.g., I've heard they wire you up to make sure you get a siezure noww. Spme years ago I saw an estimate that 40% of ECT treatments were not properly done. That must be much diferent now.
> **Wow. You may have been cheated at a fair chance for recovery. Dr. Horne said that today's ECT is 95% effective for full recovery!!! He must have access to some REALLY NEW info. What I've read is of effectiveness between 80% and 90%.
> >(Moreover, back then a very large % of patients did not recieve adequate doses of ADs; I know I was one of them from subsequent experience.) Certainly the rate of progress in neuroscience and psychiatry holds much promise for a future I infer you will be able to enjoy. As you know, even if you respond to no treatment--and the probability of that has become small; tho the wait is hell--you will almost certainly spend most of your life in remission. As for me, I got better in 75-76 and had a recurrence in '82 which I just rode out. Then again in '85 when I responded 'in textbook fashion', to a dosage of desipramine that was considered very dangerous in 73. I was fine for 8 years and then switched to Prozac in an effort to become easy going and charming. To some degree, that worked; the Prozac did seem to 'smooth me out' and come me down. But. it pooped out about a year ago, well only partially for I didn't miss any work. Right now, I feel almost certain that I am responding finally to Effexor after the rounds of this and that.
> **Holy Cats! Alan, you are an inspiration. You are one of the few people with this illness who KNOWS what it's like to fight to the bitter end. Unlike those people who SAY they've had depression. Those that insist that if you don't WANT to lose your ability to work you simply CHOOSE not to lose your ability to work. As if CHOICE has anything to do with it. These people probably would have been "cured" by eating ice chips. But, what you've written about yourself shows that you have been terribly ill with a serious chemical imbalance. Alan, I think there are not many out there who understand how bad it can be. I REALLY HOPE that the Effexor is going to do it for you and NEVER "poop out".
> > This is one of those times I would like to say "I'll pray for you." but I don't mess with the occult. My fervant wishes for your earliest recovery.
> > alan
> **I'd mess with anything if it were a proven way to put this illness into remission. I wish you all the best and that all the best that you've missed out on over the years will, finally, be within your grasp.
> Mind Over Madness,
> Nancy
Nancy, I can very well understand your misery, I have been fighting this for YEARS, am sick of fighting this, I don't think I can remember life without this damn depression suffocating me. Anyway, I'm on 40mg Celexa and pushing it up to 60mg this coming week. If I fail this test to respond, my Dr. thinks ECT is next also. I'm apprehensive about it, but then I figure what have I got to loose. I'm working every day, but it seems to be getting more and more uphill! Enough about me, how soon are you going to start your ECT treatments? I hope it's successful for you!!!! I'm anxious to hear about your results!! Good Luck!!

Re: ECT - when Nancy?

Posted by alan on December 13, 1998, at 23:13:05

In reply to Re: ECT - when Nancy?, posted by LT on December 13, 1998, at 19:53:16

> > > >Your description has helped me. I've decided to let the doc do ECT on me. My doc, Dr. Robert Horne, is a mood disorder specialist, also. So, I'm not afraid of him lacking any ability in performing the procedures.
> > > > Dr. Horne said we're going to do two ECT sessions a day a few times a week until we've completed 6-12 treatments. This has to clear up my illness, since nothing else works. I don't know what I'll do if it doesn't happen for me. What did you do, Alan?
> > > > Has anything you've tried made you better??? I REALLY HOPE so! It's miserable to be so sick.
> > > > Nancy
> > > Thank youfor your ressponse. I got my shocks back in 73, and I think they are more reliable today; e.g., I've heard they wire you up to make sure you get a siezure noww. Spme years ago I saw an estimate that 40% of ECT treatments were not properly done. That must be much diferent now.
> > **Wow. You may have been cheated at a fair chance for recovery. Dr. Horne said that today's ECT is 95% effective for full recovery!!! He must have access to some REALLY NEW info. What I've read is of effectiveness between 80% and 90%.
> > >(Moreover, back then a very large % of patients did not recieve adequate doses of ADs; I know I was one of them from subsequent experience.) Certainly the rate of progress in neuroscience and psychiatry holds much promise for a future I infer you will be able to enjoy. As you know, even if you respond to no treatment--and the probability of that has become small; tho the wait is hell--you will almost certainly spend most of your life in remission. As for me, I got better in 75-76 and had a recurrence in '82 which I just rode out. Then again in '85 when I responded 'in textbook fashion', to a dosage of desipramine that was considered very dangerous in 73. I was fine for 8 years and then switched to Prozac in an effort to become easy going and charming. To some degree, that worked; the Prozac did seem to 'smooth me out' and come me down. But. it pooped out about a year ago, well only partially for I didn't miss any work. Right now, I feel almost certain that I am responding finally to Effexor after the rounds of this and that.
> > **Holy Cats! Alan, you are an inspiration. You are one of the few people with this illness who KNOWS what it's like to fight to the bitter end. Unlike those people who SAY they've had depression. Those that insist that if you don't WANT to lose your ability to work you simply CHOOSE not to lose your ability to work. As if CHOICE has anything to do with it. These people probably would have been "cured" by eating ice chips. But, what you've written about yourself shows that you have been terribly ill with a serious chemical imbalance. Alan, I think there are not many out there who understand how bad it can be. I REALLY HOPE that the Effexor is going to do it for you and NEVER "poop out".
> > > This is one of those times I would like to say "I'll pray for you." but I don't mess with the occult. My fervant wishes for your earliest recovery.
> > > alan
> > **I'd mess with anything if it were a proven way to put this illness into remission. I wish you all the best and that all the best that you've missed out on over the years will, finally, be within your grasp.
> > Mind Over Madness,
> > Nancy
> Nancy, I can very well understand your misery, I have been fighting this for YEARS, am sick of fighting this, I don't think I can remember life without this damn depression suffocating me. Anyway, I'm on 40mg Celexa and pushing it up to 60mg this coming week. If I fail this test to respond, my Dr. thinks ECT is next also. I'm apprehensive about it, but then I figure what have I got to loose. I'm working every day, but it seems to be getting more and more uphill! Enough about me, how soon are you going to start your ECT treatments? I hope it's successful for you!!!! I'm anxious to hear about your results!! Good Luck!!

Nancy, please try to remember that hopelessness is a common symptom of depression, a way we try to make sense of how badly we feel perhaps. You will get well and be well for the vast majority of the rest of your life. And please kep us informed.

Re: Thank You, Danielle

Posted by Danielle on December 14, 1998, at 16:46:32

In reply to Re: Thank You, Danielle, posted by Nancy on December 13, 1998, at 17:49:29

Well,crumbs,Nancy. I'm riding the same merry-go-round and the music in my head isn't the only - or the biggest - problem. I often do misread people, usually those closest to me, and it usually is an indicator of how much a grip my illness has on me at the time. And, like you, I have a mouth that can substitute for a full-fledged body slam when I least expect it.
Don't give up girl-o, I can't possibly know how sick you are of it all, but I do know you're still functioning in some capacity and you're filling your place in the world doing something you were put here to do. I think knowing what that is is a big secret kept from us all, even those who are lucky enough to think they know - but that's another story. One thing we do know - Nancy is a catalyst!

Re: Thank You, Danielle

Posted by Danielle on December 14, 1998, at 17:18:24

In reply to Re: Thank You, Danielle, posted by Nancy on December 13, 1998, at 17:49:29

Well, double crumbs, Nancy.I just answered this and made one tiny little mistake and somebody ate my answer. Was it Dr. Bob? I will try to repeat what I said. I said:
We ARE all riding the same merry-go-round (as someone said here before me)- and the music isn't the only - or biggest - problem I have. I have a tendency to misread people at times, usually those times that my illness is manifesting itself more drastically. I also said that, like you, I have a mouth like a full body slam that shows out when I least expect it. I like what Alan or ? just said before me - to remember that hopelessness is a symptom of the disease. Yes, I know, hard to hold on to in the midst of hopelessness, but that's what friends are for - to remind you when you can't remind yourself. I also want to remind you that you are functioning in some way and that also in some way you're still filling the space intended for you and fulfilling your purpose (which I have decided may be infintesimally small for some of us - but critical none the less) and we need you to keep doing that. And the one thing we do know - Nancy is a catalyst. Very best wishes - keep fighting - Danielle

Re: Thank You, Danielle

Posted by OK Nancy on December 14, 1998, at 17:28:19

In reply to Re: Thank You, Danielle, posted by Danielle on December 14, 1998, at 17:18:24

Triple crumbs Nancy, I hope this is improving your mood some what. OK, so it returned - now you can take your pick of which one is the best - or the worst! Now everyone knows just how confusing the world is to me.
Danielle

ECT !!! Eureka!!!

Posted by Nancy on December 24, 1998, at 17:37:10

In reply to ECT: a question for the docs...others' experiences, posted by Nancy on December 3, 1998, at 1:21:41

Hey!!! ECT (unilateral)wasn't a big scary deal after all!!! Today, I finished a sixth treatment. I'm already feeling pretty good. Three days ago, I took a depression rating exam before I had my first ECT session. On this Beck's depression scale, I had scored a 56 (40 is extremely depressed). Today, my score was 29. After the holidays, I'm recieving the final six treatments.
Happy Holidays to All,
Nancy