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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by harry on February 2, 1999, at 18:22:20
Would love to hear from old Alumnus or anybody out there that can honestly say they have beat this scourge and they have been off ALL medications for at least a year... How about that Doc.Bob?Can you give us some hope you must know at least one???
Posted by saintjames on February 3, 1999, at 1:21:18
In reply to Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by harry on February 2, 1999, at 18:22:20
> Would love to hear from old Alumnus or anybody out there that can honestly say they have beat this scourge and they have been off ALL medications for at least a year... How about that Doc.Bob?Can you give us some hope you must know at least one???
James here....
As many mental disorders are perm. conditions it is unrealistic to expect to stop taking meds. I was born with ADD and will die with it but I have never thought of it as a negative. I don't really
consider the depression a plus but I live with it.
neurobiology is very very complex and we are just
beginning to understand it so cures are really in the picture while we don't fully understand why things happen. Some depressives, after a course of an AD, do have total remmision.Personally I like my meds...they work and when they don't I have been able to find others that work. The meds allow me to enjoy the positives of ADD.
james
Posted by Tess on February 4, 1999, at 5:50:00
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by saintjames on February 3, 1999, at 1:21:18
Harry, this is liking asking a diabetic if he can beat diabetes without the insulin. After a 10 year quest of trying to lick depression with natural methods, I finally accepted that I have an illness that may require treatment for the rest of my life. The only thing I accomplished by that 10 year quest is making my mood disorder worse and more resistent to treatment. I am thankful for modern medicine and have no problem taking one small pill per day so that I can be the best person I can be.
> > Would love to hear from old Alumnus or anybody out there that can honestly say they have beat this scourge and they have been off ALL medications for at least a year... How about that Doc.Bob?Can you give us some hope you must know at least one???
>
> James here....
>
> As many mental disorders are perm. conditions it is unrealistic to expect to stop taking meds. I was born with ADD and will die with it but I have never thought of it as a negative. I don't really
> consider the depression a plus but I live with it.
> neurobiology is very very complex and we are just
> beginning to understand it so cures are really in the picture while we don't fully understand why things happen. Some depressives, after a course of an AD, do have total remmision.
>
> Personally I like my meds...they work and when they don't I have been able to find others that work. The meds allow me to enjoy the positives of ADD.
>
> james
Posted by Paul on February 4, 1999, at 16:35:56
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Tess on February 4, 1999, at 5:50:00
I think that if you've been told that these diseases are lifelong, and you believe that you will always need medication, you probably will. I believe your mindset is important. If you regard depression as a "disease" in every way analogous to diabetes, and in no way in your control, you will cease to have any control over it.
If you believe that life experiences and insight can in fact change your psychological health, then it is more likely that they can. If you're resigned to what you perceive as your fate, then you will not get better without meds.
I am not bashing medication; I am simply saying that the mindset that you are powerless over a 100% biological affliction can be a dangerous one that causes you to "surrender" to it and to be convinced that every time you are depressed, it can be no other way.
I suggest reading "Mindfulness" by Ellen Langer. It is very empowering.
Posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 4:39:01
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Paul on February 4, 1999, at 16:35:56
I think my point may have been missed. I feel there is a great deal I can do to help my depression with diet, exercise, meditation etc. But I do not feel like a failure because my brain chemistry is off big time and I cannot "will" it to change. I suffered a lot of anguish and pain thinking I could "cure" myself. I may NOT be on medication for my entire life but if that is the case, so be it. I do see my mood disorder as an illness and I take responsibility for my health which includes getting the proper medical treatment. And it took me 45 years to accept and understand that. 45 years of intense suffering thinking my "mindset" could change it all. It is not my fate (whatever that is)...it is a fact. I don't think people should feel guilty or inferior if they need medication because their "mindset" has not been enough to help them. We have come a long way in understanding that mental illness is just that...an illness. And we cannot will it away with some mindset. Bernie Segal also thought patients could use their mindset to cure their cancer and then had to rephrase it all in a second book for those who died anyway even after using all of the "positive" thoughts, etc.
Acceptance should not in any way be confused with surrender.> I think that if you've been told that these diseases are lifelong, and you believe that you will always need medication, you probably will. I believe your mindset is important. If you regard depression as a "disease" in every way analogous to diabetes, and in no way in your control, you will cease to have any control over it.
>
> If you believe that life experiences and insight can in fact change your psychological health, then it is more likely that they can. If you're resigned to what you perceive as your fate, then you will not get better without meds.
>
> I am not bashing medication; I am simply saying that the mindset that you are powerless over a 100% biological affliction can be a dangerous one that causes you to "surrender" to it and to be convinced that every time you are depressed, it can be no other way.
>
> I suggest reading "Mindfulness" by Ellen Langer. It is very empowering.
Posted by Carol on February 5, 1999, at 7:10:45
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 4:39:01
Harry, Paul, Tess and everyone:
I consider myself to be a success story, even though I am not free of medications, and may never be med-free.> I'm firmly in Tess's camp. I have tried repeatedly to "conquer" my disease and be a "normal" person. I use cognitive tools instinctively now, and I have been in a variety of types of counseling to improve my coping skills for a long, long time.
>There is an undeniable BIOLOGICAL component to my depression. During times when I have tried to deal with things without meds, some days were ok, but on many days I couldn't cope with life.
I have endured my husband and his attitude that the meds are a crutch and that I SHOULD be able to deal with all this without meds.There is an undeniable component of my "dysthymia" which is balanced out by the meds, and from there, the exercise, positive thinking, cognitive skills, and other therapy are able to keep me functioning at a very high level.
Part of my process in taking control of my problems, rather than being a "victim" of my disease, was to recognize that this is a long-term thing and that meds were necessary to give me a firm place from which to do all the work that Paul is referring to.
I accept myself the way I am, while still working actively to change the things I can change. For example, in high school I was afraid of other kids, to the extent that I never went to study halls or the cafeteria. Through a LOT of hard work, self-assessment and skill-building, I am now in a position where I interact directly with customers, I lead training sessions for the products my company sells, I present talks at symposia for 50-150 people, and I'm involved in lots of volunteer activities. The self-talk and skills are still very important, but for me, they did not "cure" my underlying problem by themsleves.
>>For any of "us" (people with mental/emotional illnesses) to believe that the only TRUE CURE or SUCCESS is to be totally off medications and away from therapy only feeds the negative impressions that are so widespread in society. I always have to keep my depression a secret, for if my supervisors knew that I was depressed, and being treated for a mental problem, my promotions and advancement and marketability in any job would STOP. This did happen in my first job, so since then I have had to be extremely careful.
Learning to deal with the realities of our own particular situations and accepting these realities is one of the most basic keys for sucess for anyone dealing with mental/emotional disorders. If your problem allows you to be med-free, congratulations. PLEASE don't look down upon those of us for whom that might never happen. For me, a meds combination that works assists me in taking control of my life. At age 23, I was told that maybe I wouldn't need the meds after I went through menopause. Since I'm not there yet, I still don't know.
>
Posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 9:36:29
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Carol on February 5, 1999, at 7:10:45
Carol,
Thank you so much for expanding so eloquently on the message I was attempting to convey. I wish at age 23, I had possessed your insight. It would have saved me over 2 decades of "lost" time and so much pain. Hats off to you, a very intelligent young woman. Tess
Posted by Carol on February 5, 1999, at 13:13:52
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 9:36:29
Tess,
I'm sorry, but I didn't intend to leave the impression that I was still 23. That was back when I started treatment. It took me about 4 years to recognize that I needed to take control of my illness and my life. I've spent the 10-11 years since then maintaining the meds balance, while continuing counseling on improving my people skills, stretching my "comfort zone", and continuing to practice the cognitive skills which help me to stay balanced and in control.
Carol
Posted by Carol on February 5, 1999, at 14:11:17
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Carol on February 5, 1999, at 13:13:52
Carol,
No problem. In rereading, I can now see my error. I must still say that I wish I had had the knowledge and insight to have started treatment at 23.> Tess,
>
> I'm sorry, but I didn't intend to leave the impression that I was still 23. That was back when I started treatment. It took me about 4 years to recognize that I needed to take control of my illness and my life. I've spent the 10-11 years since then maintaining the meds balance, while continuing counseling on improving my people skills, stretching my "comfort zone", and continuing to practice the cognitive skills which help me to stay balanced and in control.
>
> Carol
Posted by Purple on February 10, 1999, at 3:35:11
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 4:39:01
> I think my point may have been missed. I feel there is a great deal I can do to help my depression with diet, exercise, meditation etc. But I do not feel like a failure because my brain chemistry is off big time and I cannot "will" it to change. I suffered a lot of anguish and pain thinking I could "cure" myself. I may NOT be on medication for my entire life but if that is the case, so be it. I do see my mood disorder as an illness and I take responsibility for my health which includes getting the proper medical treatment. And it took me 45 years to accept and understand that. 45 years of intense suffering thinking my "mindset" could change it all. It is not my fate (whatever that is)...it is a fact. I don't think people should feel guilty or inferior if they need medication because their "mindset" has not been enough to help them. We have come a long way in understanding that mental illness is just that...an illness. And we cannot will it away with some mindset. Bernie Segal also thought patient > could use their mindset to cure their cancer and then had to rephrase it all in a second book for those who died anyway even after using all of the "positive" thoughts, etc.
> Acceptance should not in any way be confused with surrender.What's that saying they use in AA? "May I have strength change the things I can, the grace to accept the things I can't, and have the wisdom to know the difference."
Posted by Dr. Teresa Davidson on February 18, 1999, at 13:07:23
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Tess on February 5, 1999, at 4:39:01
I have been off medication for nearly three years now after two very severe bouts with depression that left me up all night and crying all day and taking Effexor by the handful. The thing that has allowed me to be med-free is yoga--- lots of it-- inveresions (handstands, headstands, shoulderstands) and backbends, backbends, backbends. When my yoga practice slides, my mood slides with it. If it gets too much in a rut, I get some acupuncture and then do more yoga. At first, I was crying in yoga class nearly every week. Now, no problem as long as I continue the inversions and backbends. The type of yoga I do is Iyengar yoga, very physiologically based.
As a former research physiologist and medical school faculty member, I think we're going to see in the next few years alot of good info on yoga for management of depression and other mood disorders. If anyone has seen any published data on this (I've been looking), please let me know.Teresa Davidson
Posted by Dr. Teresa Davidson on February 18, 1999, at 13:14:49
In reply to Re: Doc. Bob,looking for some a success story!!!!!, posted by Dr. Teresa Davidson on February 18, 1999, at 13:07:23
Caveat: In using yoga for help with depression, it is very important to seek the help of a skilled and qualified yoga teacher. Inversions and backbends can cause serious damage if done incorrectly.
A listing of certified Iyengar yoga teachers can be found at:http://comnet.org/iynaus/cert1.html
This is the end of the thread.
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