![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 437 to 461 of 795. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2014, at 5:25:28
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2014, at 16:41:08
> > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
>
> OK, I posted my response.
>
> > Then we could go on with the offered links here concerning anti-Semitic statements being allowed to stand by you and your deputies of record and statements that libel me and put me down that as a Jew can be seen as a disregard for your rules to not put down someone.
>
> Could you link to them again? Thanks,
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
Here is a link to the post that has the link to the post in question.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060070.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2014, at 3:58:53
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2014, at 16:41:08
> > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
>
> OK, I posted my response.And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
--
> > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html> There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2014, at 8:29:39
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2014, at 3:58:53
> > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> >
> > OK, I posted my response.
>
> And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
>
> --
>
> > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
>
> > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
>
> I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2014, at 10:05:42
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-ptdwn-prs » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2014, at 8:29:39
> > > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> > >
> > > OK, I posted my response.
> >
> > And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
> >
> > --
> >
> > > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> > >
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
> >
> > > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
> >
> > I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
> Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
> Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
> Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
> Lou PilderMr Hsiung,
Your past practice here clarifies what one can post as if it is supportive or not, or if it puts down or not or pressures or not.
One of the aspects that define this that readers could see states by you:
[...To say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not which puts down those of other beliefs...].
Now the statement in question states that I as a Jew should convert to Christianity in order to save myself. Now the poster does not state what {save} means, but it is generally accepted that when others attempt to convert another to another faith, usually theirs, as used in this case, it is The Wrath of God that is what readers could think that the person should be saved from. This generally is what Christians that attempt to convert others to Christianity use to lead the ones being attempted to be converted to think that they will suffer excruciating torment in flames for all eternity in what they call "hell" if they remain Jews and do not convert to Christianity. This is a generally accepted meaning of what {pressure} means in relation to pressure others to adopt Christianity, for the implication could mean that if you do not convert to Christianity, you could go to hell.
You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
You also state that making statements like the one in question could be determined as to if it is OK to post it on the basis of determining if it is {necessary} to post it. Is it necessary to post to me to as a Jew convert to Christianity to save myself first?
You also state here that it is fine to post what you believe-as long as you don't put down other beliefs. The concept that I as a Jew am being told to first convert to Christianity to save myself first, is contrasting Judaism as a religion that can not save Jews with a religion that one could be saved as converting to so that what can be seen is that Judaism is {inferior} to Christianity because Judaism can not save but Christianity can. This is one of the generally accepted meanings of what {put down} means.
The aspect that you are allowing the statement to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole could lead a subset of readers such as Jewish children to feel put down, insulted, humiliated with no hope of being with God in Paradise, but to be consigned to hell because they are Jews and have not converted to Christianity to save themselves first as the poster writes here. This could lead those readers that come here via a search in depression to go further into depression and commit suicide as they could think that you are saying that the statement will be good for this community as a whole and I supportive because it is unsanctioned.
You say that you take responsibility for what you post, and by you rejecting this opportunity to post a repudiation of what puts down Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity first to be saved, readers could think that you could be using your power to foster anti-Semitism here for you do have a choice to post a repudiation or not, for your rules state not to post anything that could lead one to feel put down. I feel put down, and if you want to say that I should not feel put down, then go ahead and post that here. But when you do it to me, you do it to the other Jews that feel put down when they read what you are allowing as not against your rules to post here.
Lou Pilder
Here is a post where you clarify about putting down other faiths and telling others what to do and if it is necessary and to say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin//20020918/msgs/7871.html
and then here is a post saying not to pressure or put down: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7724.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 6, 2014, at 8:49:20
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- eyetinklushdbee » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 3, 2013, at 1:59:27
> Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)Pat,
You wrote,[...I've never seen a post that would be against your heritage and religion...].
Would this post be that I wrote a response to here?
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060234.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2014, at 12:14:39
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-klair, posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2014, at 10:05:42
> > > > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> > > >
> > > > OK, I posted my response.
> > >
> > > And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
> > >
> > > > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
> > >
> > > I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
> > Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
> > Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
> > Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
> > Lou Pilder
>
> Mr Hsiung,
> Your past practice here clarifies what one can post as if it is supportive or not, or if it puts down or not or pressures or not.
> One of the aspects that define this that readers could see states by you:
> [...To say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not which puts down those of other beliefs...].
> Now the statement in question states that I as a Jew should convert to Christianity in order to save myself. Now the poster does not state what {save} means, but it is generally accepted that when others attempt to convert another to another faith, usually theirs, as used in this case, it is The Wrath of God that is what readers could think that the person should be saved from. This generally is what Christians that attempt to convert others to Christianity use to lead the ones being attempted to be converted to think that they will suffer excruciating torment in flames for all eternity in what they call "hell" if they remain Jews and do not convert to Christianity. This is a generally accepted meaning of what {pressure} means in relation to pressure others to adopt Christianity, for the implication could mean that if you do not convert to Christianity, you could go to hell.
> You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> You also state that making statements like the one in question could be determined as to if it is OK to post it on the basis of determining if it is {necessary} to post it. Is it necessary to post to me to as a Jew convert to Christianity to save myself first?
> You also state here that it is fine to post what you believe-as long as you don't put down other beliefs. The concept that I as a Jew am being told to first convert to Christianity to save myself first, is contrasting Judaism as a religion that can not save Jews with a religion that one could be saved as converting to so that what can be seen is that Judaism is {inferior} to Christianity because Judaism can not save but Christianity can. This is one of the generally accepted meanings of what {put down} means.
> The aspect that you are allowing the statement to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole could lead a subset of readers such as Jewish children to feel put down, insulted, humiliated with no hope of being with God in Paradise, but to be consigned to hell because they are Jews and have not converted to Christianity to save themselves first as the poster writes here. This could lead those readers that come here via a search in depression to go further into depression and commit suicide as they could think that you are saying that the statement will be good for this community as a whole and I supportive because it is unsanctioned.
> You say that you take responsibility for what you post, and by you rejecting this opportunity to post a repudiation of what puts down Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity first to be saved, readers could think that you could be using your power to foster anti-Semitism here for you do have a choice to post a repudiation or not, for your rules state not to post anything that could lead one to feel put down. I feel put down, and if you want to say that I should not feel put down, then go ahead and post that here. But when you do it to me, you do it to the other Jews that feel put down when they read what you are allowing as not against your rules to post here.
> Lou Pilder
> Here is a post where you clarify about putting down other faiths and telling others what to do and if it is necessary and to say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin//20020918/msgs/7871.html
> and then here is a post saying not to pressure or put down: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7724.htmlMr. Hsiung,
Your forum is meant to be supportive of all faiths. In the post in question, the implication in the statement is that Judaism is not a religion that could lead to one being saved and that Christianity is. This is all because the statement can be seen by a subset of readers as putting down Judaism as a faith that is inferior to Christianity because the statement implies that I as a Jew need to convert to Christianity to be saved. And that is a jump to a conclusion to say, in any form of implication, that as a Jew I am not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved.
Your past practice here defines what puts down, be it in your TOS under "civil" as to matters of faith or other matters. One such post is,[ faith, 766183].
Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person. Now it is what the person is telling the other to do that is relevant in any determination as to if the statement constitutes {putting down} the other person. In the aspect of what the person is told to do is IMHO analogous to that the poster in question in this post,[ admin, 4418 ], says to do. The analogous concept is that in 4418, the poster is told to change his/her behavior to a different behavior as one being more mature. But what if the person likes being immature? And your deputy did sanction the statement as {putting down} the other person and rightfully so, for people telling others to change can be a put down. And in the post in question, I as a Jew am being told to change my belief in Judaism to the belief in Christianity and convert to Christianity so that I can save myself first. I feel put down when I read that.
Then there is the concept of being sensitive to the feelings of others as exemplified in,[faith,799315 ], and not put down the beliefs of others in [ faith, 690854 ].
Now be it as it may be, if you are going to allow the statement to stand, a subset of readers IMHO could think that you are using your power to contribute and intentionally develop anti-Semitic feelings here by allowing others to think that you are saying that the statement is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that you say that posts unsanctioned have statements in them that are not against your rules. This could enable and encourage IMHO others to post analogous statements that could lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel put down which distorts the intent of the forum to not post {anything that could lead} another reader to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about someone.
And worse, IMHO a subset of readers could think that you are validating that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity. I base that on the fact that what can be seen in the statement for me to convert, could lead a subset of readers ignorant of Judaism to accept the statement as fact. It is a false statement that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity and defames Judaism itself if it is allowed to be considered conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and supportive. The concept of how one is saved is not defined by the poster. And worse, your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting what could vindicate the Jews to show that they do not have to convert to Christianity to save themselves. That fact alone could lead a subset of readers to think that you are not neutral in regards to this issue, and that you are ratifying and adopting the statement as fact which could encourage further statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, and statements that could induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions of me which could result IMHO oppression and malice toward me and other Jews.
But if that is what you want, let us go to the next statement that I want a repudiation by you posted to. In this post, a subset of readers could think that you consider the statement to be accurate that puts down Jews, as that the statement could be thought that Christianity has grace and truth but Judaism does not, because grace and truth {came by} Jesus Christ. I am prevented from posting a repudiation due to the prohibitions that you have posted to me here which could lead a subset of readers to think that you are preventing me to do so that could have a subset of readers think that it constitutes malice toward me as a Jew here
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/735373.html
Lou PIlder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2014, at 19:42:03
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-malphoart, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2014, at 12:14:39
> > > > > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, I posted my response.
> > > >
> > > > And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
> > > >
> > > > > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
> > > >
> > > > I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > >
> > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
> > > Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
> > > Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
> > > Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
> > > Lou Pilder
> >
> > Mr Hsiung,
> > Your past practice here clarifies what one can post as if it is supportive or not, or if it puts down or not or pressures or not.
> > One of the aspects that define this that readers could see states by you:
> > [...To say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not which puts down those of other beliefs...].
> > Now the statement in question states that I as a Jew should convert to Christianity in order to save myself. Now the poster does not state what {save} means, but it is generally accepted that when others attempt to convert another to another faith, usually theirs, as used in this case, it is The Wrath of God that is what readers could think that the person should be saved from. This generally is what Christians that attempt to convert others to Christianity use to lead the ones being attempted to be converted to think that they will suffer excruciating torment in flames for all eternity in what they call "hell" if they remain Jews and do not convert to Christianity. This is a generally accepted meaning of what {pressure} means in relation to pressure others to adopt Christianity, for the implication could mean that if you do not convert to Christianity, you could go to hell.
> > You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> > You also state that making statements like the one in question could be determined as to if it is OK to post it on the basis of determining if it is {necessary} to post it. Is it necessary to post to me to as a Jew convert to Christianity to save myself first?
> > You also state here that it is fine to post what you believe-as long as you don't put down other beliefs. The concept that I as a Jew am being told to first convert to Christianity to save myself first, is contrasting Judaism as a religion that can not save Jews with a religion that one could be saved as converting to so that what can be seen is that Judaism is {inferior} to Christianity because Judaism can not save but Christianity can. This is one of the generally accepted meanings of what {put down} means.
> > The aspect that you are allowing the statement to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole could lead a subset of readers such as Jewish children to feel put down, insulted, humiliated with no hope of being with God in Paradise, but to be consigned to hell because they are Jews and have not converted to Christianity to save themselves first as the poster writes here. This could lead those readers that come here via a search in depression to go further into depression and commit suicide as they could think that you are saying that the statement will be good for this community as a whole and I supportive because it is unsanctioned.
> > You say that you take responsibility for what you post, and by you rejecting this opportunity to post a repudiation of what puts down Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity first to be saved, readers could think that you could be using your power to foster anti-Semitism here for you do have a choice to post a repudiation or not, for your rules state not to post anything that could lead one to feel put down. I feel put down, and if you want to say that I should not feel put down, then go ahead and post that here. But when you do it to me, you do it to the other Jews that feel put down when they read what you are allowing as not against your rules to post here.
> > Lou Pilder
> > Here is a post where you clarify about putting down other faiths and telling others what to do and if it is necessary and to say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not.
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin//20020918/msgs/7871.html
> > and then here is a post saying not to pressure or put down: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7724.html
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> Your forum is meant to be supportive of all faiths. In the post in question, the implication in the statement is that Judaism is not a religion that could lead to one being saved and that Christianity is. This is all because the statement can be seen by a subset of readers as putting down Judaism as a faith that is inferior to Christianity because the statement implies that I as a Jew need to convert to Christianity to be saved. And that is a jump to a conclusion to say, in any form of implication, that as a Jew I am not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved.
> Your past practice here defines what puts down, be it in your TOS under "civil" as to matters of faith or other matters. One such post is,[ faith, 766183].
> Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person. Now it is what the person is telling the other to do that is relevant in any determination as to if the statement constitutes {putting down} the other person. In the aspect of what the person is told to do is IMHO analogous to that the poster in question in this post,[ admin, 4418 ], says to do. The analogous concept is that in 4418, the poster is told to change his/her behavior to a different behavior as one being more mature. But what if the person likes being immature? And your deputy did sanction the statement as {putting down} the other person and rightfully so, for people telling others to change can be a put down. And in the post in question, I as a Jew am being told to change my belief in Judaism to the belief in Christianity and convert to Christianity so that I can save myself first. I feel put down when I read that.
> Then there is the concept of being sensitive to the feelings of others as exemplified in,[faith,799315 ], and not put down the beliefs of others in [ faith, 690854 ].
> Now be it as it may be, if you are going to allow the statement to stand, a subset of readers IMHO could think that you are using your power to contribute and intentionally develop anti-Semitic feelings here by allowing others to think that you are saying that the statement is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that you say that posts unsanctioned have statements in them that are not against your rules. This could enable and encourage IMHO others to post analogous statements that could lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel put down which distorts the intent of the forum to not post {anything that could lead} another reader to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about someone.
> And worse, IMHO a subset of readers could think that you are validating that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity. I base that on the fact that what can be seen in the statement for me to convert, could lead a subset of readers ignorant of Judaism to accept the statement as fact. It is a false statement that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity and defames Judaism itself if it is allowed to be considered conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and supportive. The concept of how one is saved is not defined by the poster. And worse, your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting what could vindicate the Jews to show that they do not have to convert to Christianity to save themselves. That fact alone could lead a subset of readers to think that you are not neutral in regards to this issue, and that you are ratifying and adopting the statement as fact which could encourage further statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, and statements that could induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions of me which could result IMHO oppression and malice toward me and other Jews.
> But if that is what you want, let us go to the next statement that I want a repudiation by you posted to. In this post, a subset of readers could think that you consider the statement to be accurate that puts down Jews, as that the statement could be thought that Christianity has grace and truth but Judaism does not, because grace and truth {came by} Jesus Christ. I am prevented from posting a repudiation due to the prohibitions that you have posted to me here which could lead a subset of readers to think that you are preventing me to do so that could have a subset of readers think that it constitutes malice toward me as a Jew here
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/735373.html
> Lou PIlderMr. Hsiung,
One aspect here is that a subset of readers could think that you are intentionally developing and/or contributing to fostering hatred toward the Jews by the nature that readers could see statements that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, in posts that are unsanctioned. This is because you state that in an unsanctioned post, the statements are not against your rules.
In that you add your own comments that could lead a subset of readers to think that you are ratifying statements that put down Jews, that could lead a subset of readers IMHO to be encouraged to post anti-Semitic statements which is something that could seriously mislead a subset of readers that could culminate in deaths by the nature that when anti-Semitism can be thought to be validated by the owner of a site, some readers could have hatred toward the Jews induced into them. This hatred I have posted about and you posted that you do not disagree with what I posted about hate, yet today statements that could induce hatred into some readers by the nature that they could think that anti-Semitic statements unsanctioned could mean that you and your deputies of record then are ratifying what those statements could purport. Then it is conceivable that a subset of readers could think that you are designing your site to be a portal for anti-Semitic expression since there are anti-Semitic statements that are not repudiated by you or your deputies of record then.
Here is another post that I am asking for you to post what could repudiate that you and your deputies then let stand. The statements about the Jews in the post I can not see any justification for you and your deputies then to have allowed to stand. I am asking that you post a repudiation of the statements about Jews in the post to show that they are not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and are not in accordance with your rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.
Here is the post.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20041109/msgs/428781.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2014, at 19:45:19
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-prtulfrhy, posted by Lou Pilder on February 12, 2014, at 19:42:03
> > > > > > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK, I posted my response.
> > > > >
> > > > > And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
> > > > >
> > > > > > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
> > > > >
> > > > > I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
> > > > Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
> > > > Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
> > > > Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
> > > > Lou Pilder
> > >
> > > Mr Hsiung,
> > > Your past practice here clarifies what one can post as if it is supportive or not, or if it puts down or not or pressures or not.
> > > One of the aspects that define this that readers could see states by you:
> > > [...To say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not which puts down those of other beliefs...].
> > > Now the statement in question states that I as a Jew should convert to Christianity in order to save myself. Now the poster does not state what {save} means, but it is generally accepted that when others attempt to convert another to another faith, usually theirs, as used in this case, it is The Wrath of God that is what readers could think that the person should be saved from. This generally is what Christians that attempt to convert others to Christianity use to lead the ones being attempted to be converted to think that they will suffer excruciating torment in flames for all eternity in what they call "hell" if they remain Jews and do not convert to Christianity. This is a generally accepted meaning of what {pressure} means in relation to pressure others to adopt Christianity, for the implication could mean that if you do not convert to Christianity, you could go to hell.
> > > You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> > > You also state that making statements like the one in question could be determined as to if it is OK to post it on the basis of determining if it is {necessary} to post it. Is it necessary to post to me to as a Jew convert to Christianity to save myself first?
> > > You also state here that it is fine to post what you believe-as long as you don't put down other beliefs. The concept that I as a Jew am being told to first convert to Christianity to save myself first, is contrasting Judaism as a religion that can not save Jews with a religion that one could be saved as converting to so that what can be seen is that Judaism is {inferior} to Christianity because Judaism can not save but Christianity can. This is one of the generally accepted meanings of what {put down} means.
> > > The aspect that you are allowing the statement to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole could lead a subset of readers such as Jewish children to feel put down, insulted, humiliated with no hope of being with God in Paradise, but to be consigned to hell because they are Jews and have not converted to Christianity to save themselves first as the poster writes here. This could lead those readers that come here via a search in depression to go further into depression and commit suicide as they could think that you are saying that the statement will be good for this community as a whole and I supportive because it is unsanctioned.
> > > You say that you take responsibility for what you post, and by you rejecting this opportunity to post a repudiation of what puts down Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity first to be saved, readers could think that you could be using your power to foster anti-Semitism here for you do have a choice to post a repudiation or not, for your rules state not to post anything that could lead one to feel put down. I feel put down, and if you want to say that I should not feel put down, then go ahead and post that here. But when you do it to me, you do it to the other Jews that feel put down when they read what you are allowing as not against your rules to post here.
> > > Lou Pilder
> > > Here is a post where you clarify about putting down other faiths and telling others what to do and if it is necessary and to say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not.
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin//20020918/msgs/7871.html
> > > and then here is a post saying not to pressure or put down: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7724.html
> >
> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > Your forum is meant to be supportive of all faiths. In the post in question, the implication in the statement is that Judaism is not a religion that could lead to one being saved and that Christianity is. This is all because the statement can be seen by a subset of readers as putting down Judaism as a faith that is inferior to Christianity because the statement implies that I as a Jew need to convert to Christianity to be saved. And that is a jump to a conclusion to say, in any form of implication, that as a Jew I am not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved.
> > Your past practice here defines what puts down, be it in your TOS under "civil" as to matters of faith or other matters. One such post is,[ faith, 766183].
> > Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person. Now it is what the person is telling the other to do that is relevant in any determination as to if the statement constitutes {putting down} the other person. In the aspect of what the person is told to do is IMHO analogous to that the poster in question in this post,[ admin, 4418 ], says to do. The analogous concept is that in 4418, the poster is told to change his/her behavior to a different behavior as one being more mature. But what if the person likes being immature? And your deputy did sanction the statement as {putting down} the other person and rightfully so, for people telling others to change can be a put down. And in the post in question, I as a Jew am being told to change my belief in Judaism to the belief in Christianity and convert to Christianity so that I can save myself first. I feel put down when I read that.
> > Then there is the concept of being sensitive to the feelings of others as exemplified in,[faith,799315 ], and not put down the beliefs of others in [ faith, 690854 ].
> > Now be it as it may be, if you are going to allow the statement to stand, a subset of readers IMHO could think that you are using your power to contribute and intentionally develop anti-Semitic feelings here by allowing others to think that you are saying that the statement is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that you say that posts unsanctioned have statements in them that are not against your rules. This could enable and encourage IMHO others to post analogous statements that could lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel put down which distorts the intent of the forum to not post {anything that could lead} another reader to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about someone.
> > And worse, IMHO a subset of readers could think that you are validating that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity. I base that on the fact that what can be seen in the statement for me to convert, could lead a subset of readers ignorant of Judaism to accept the statement as fact. It is a false statement that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity and defames Judaism itself if it is allowed to be considered conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and supportive. The concept of how one is saved is not defined by the poster. And worse, your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting what could vindicate the Jews to show that they do not have to convert to Christianity to save themselves. That fact alone could lead a subset of readers to think that you are not neutral in regards to this issue, and that you are ratifying and adopting the statement as fact which could encourage further statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, and statements that could induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions of me which could result IMHO oppression and malice toward me and other Jews.
> > But if that is what you want, let us go to the next statement that I want a repudiation by you posted to. In this post, a subset of readers could think that you consider the statement to be accurate that puts down Jews, as that the statement could be thought that Christianity has grace and truth but Judaism does not, because grace and truth {came by} Jesus Christ. I am prevented from posting a repudiation due to the prohibitions that you have posted to me here which could lead a subset of readers to think that you are preventing me to do so that could have a subset of readers think that it constitutes malice toward me as a Jew here
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/735373.html
> > Lou PIlder
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> One aspect here is that a subset of readers could think that you are intentionally developing and/or contributing to fostering hatred toward the Jews by the nature that readers could see statements that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, in posts that are unsanctioned. This is because you state that in an unsanctioned post, the statements are not against your rules.
> In that you add your own comments that could lead a subset of readers to think that you are ratifying statements that put down Jews, that could lead a subset of readers IMHO to be encouraged to post anti-Semitic statements which is something that could seriously mislead a subset of readers that could culminate in deaths by the nature that when anti-Semitism can be thought to be validated by the owner of a site, some readers could have hatred toward the Jews induced into them. This hatred I have posted about and you posted that you do not disagree with what I posted about hate, yet today statements that could induce hatred into some readers by the nature that they could think that anti-Semitic statements unsanctioned could mean that you and your deputies of record then are ratifying what those statements could purport. Then it is conceivable that a subset of readers could think that you are designing your site to be a portal for anti-Semitic expression since there are anti-Semitic statements that are not repudiated by you or your deputies of record then.
> Here is another post that I am asking for you to post what could repudiate that you and your deputies then let stand. The statements about the Jews in the post I can not see any justification for you and your deputies then to have allowed to stand. I am asking that you post a repudiation of the statements about Jews in the post to show that they are not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and are not in accordance with your rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.
> Here is the post.
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20041109/msgs/428781.htmlcorrected:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/428781.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 12, 2014, at 23:23:40
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-malphoart, posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2014, at 12:14:39
> You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person.
I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings, but that's different from putting down Judaism. And I usually don't consider telling someone what to do once to be pressure/harassment.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 8:31:17
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 12, 2014, at 23:23:40
> > You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
>
> > Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person.
>
> I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings, but that's different from putting down Judaism. And I usually don't consider telling someone what to do once to be pressure/harassment.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
There are many parts to the post in question that says something like: [..Convert-Lou Pilder and save yourself first...convert to Christianity...] that are at issue here. You wrote,[...I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings...]. That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears. But it is much more than that, for the statement you say is not sensitive to my feelings but you also say that is different from putting down Judaism. Let us look at this post from the past practice of your to see what {putting down} of a faith could mean here by you. The post {implies} that if one road is right then others are wrong and is considered by you to constitute {putting down} other faiths. The key in your past practice here in relation to posts that put down other faiths is by {implication} as to what can be seen. In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does. That constitutes a generally accepted understanding of what putting down of another faith implies. The implication is that Jews can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity so that the implication is that Judaism is an inferior religion to Chrsitianity and by further implication the Jews will miss out on salvation because they do not convert to Christianity. I feel put down when I read that implication. And your rule is to not post {anything that could lead one to feel put down}. By implication, a subset of readers could think that the statement in question also puts down Islam, and all other faiths that are not Christian. For if Jews need to convert to Christianity for salvation, then would not Islamic people and all other people that are not Christian also have to do the same? So the statement not only leads me to feel put down when I read it, but there could be others also led to feel put down by the statement.
Lou Pilder
[ faith, 602 ]
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 15:20:33
In reply to Lou's replyThe Hsiung-Pilder discussion-wunrytrowd » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 8:31:17
> > > You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> >
> > > Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person.
> >
> > I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings, but that's different from putting down Judaism. And I usually don't consider telling someone what to do once to be pressure/harassment.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> There are many parts to the post in question that says something like: [..Convert-Lou Pilder and save yourself first...convert to Christianity...] that are at issue here. You wrote,[...I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings...]. That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears. But it is much more than that, for the statement you say is not sensitive to my feelings but you also say that is different from putting down Judaism. Let us look at this post from the past practice of your to see what {putting down} of a faith could mean here by you. The post {implies} that if one road is right then others are wrong and is considered by you to constitute {putting down} other faiths. The key in your past practice here in relation to posts that put down other faiths is by {implication} as to what can be seen. In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does. That constitutes a generally accepted understanding of what putting down of another faith implies. The implication is that Jews can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity so that the implication is that Judaism is an inferior religion to Chrsitianity and by further implication the Jews will miss out on salvation because they do not convert to Christianity. I feel put down when I read that implication. And your rule is to not post {anything that could lead one to feel put down}. By implication, a subset of readers could think that the statement in question also puts down Islam, and all other faiths that are not Christian. For if Jews need to convert to Christianity for salvation, then would not Islamic people and all other people that are not Christian also have to do the same? So the statement not only leads me to feel put down when I read it, but there could be others also led to feel put down by the statement.
> Lou Pilder
> [ faith, 602 ]Mr. Hsiung,
When a statement is not sensitive to another's feelings, the person could feel put down. I feel put down when I read the statement because you admit that the statement is not sensitive to my feelings. In your rules here, when one rule is broken, many other rules could also be broken, like if a statement is not semsitive to another's feelings, the one that the statement is directed to could feel put down. This is because in your rule to not post what could lead someone to feel put down, the {feeling} is a result of what is posted and that could even be a jump to a conclusion about another or something insensitive or accusative. All of those could lead the subject person to {feel} put down and your rule is not about what is seen, but what the recipient {feels}. And I feel put down by the statement that you say is not sensitive to my feelings when I read it.
But it is much more than that. For {pressure } is defined more than one way. One way is by repeated questioning or repeated statements, but another is by what any consequences could be to the recipient if they do not do what is said for the subject person to do. An example hypothetically could be if one poster tells another poster that they are to convert to Christianity or they will not be saved. The {consequences} of not being saved could be considered by a subset of readers to be {pressuring} the subject person.
Let us look at your post from the past practice here which shows that when another's faith is put down, that could constitute pressure by you. And the {putting down} in your past practice here could be considered by a subset of readers as analogous to the statement in question as putting down another faith because in the statement in question Judaism could be thought by a subset of readers to be made out by the poster as {inferior} to Christianity because the statement says to convert to Christianity for me to save myself first. It also jumps to a conclusion that Judaism does not lead to salvation which a subset of readers could think is an insult and criticism of Judaism as being a faith that lacks a way to be saved and by implication could mean that Jews all over the world, not just me as a Jew here, can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity. To criticize a faith is to {put down} that faith. So a subset of readers could not only think that the post puts down Judaism, but those readers could also feel put down because the post remains unsanctioned and you say that unsanctioned posts have statements in them that are not against your rules. So a subset of Jewish readers could feel humiliation not only when they read the statement, but to see that you say that the statement is not against your rules because it is unsanctioned. And to say that one religion is to be embraced as in this case to be saved, is to demean all others as you admit.
This stance that you show here has historical parallels that your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting about. But I say to you, that as long as you allow statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, there could be a subset of readers to see what you are doing as an invitation to post anti-Semitic expressions here that could lead to Jews being victims of anti-Semitic violence as that those readers could act out hatred toward the Jews in the community where they reside for you say that you do what will be good for this community as a whole and those readers could think that it will be good for their community as a whole also.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 15:23:13
In reply to Lou's replyThe Hsiung-Pilder discussion-gudphoar, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 15:20:33
> > > > You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> > >
> > > > Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person.
> > >
> > > I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings, but that's different from putting down Judaism. And I usually don't consider telling someone what to do once to be pressure/harassment.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > There are many parts to the post in question that says something like: [..Convert-Lou Pilder and save yourself first...convert to Christianity...] that are at issue here. You wrote,[...I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings...]. That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears. But it is much more than that, for the statement you say is not sensitive to my feelings but you also say that is different from putting down Judaism. Let us look at this post from the past practice of your to see what {putting down} of a faith could mean here by you. The post {implies} that if one road is right then others are wrong and is considered by you to constitute {putting down} other faiths. The key in your past practice here in relation to posts that put down other faiths is by {implication} as to what can be seen. In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does. That constitutes a generally accepted understanding of what putting down of another faith implies. The implication is that Jews can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity so that the implication is that Judaism is an inferior religion to Chrsitianity and by further implication the Jews will miss out on salvation because they do not convert to Christianity. I feel put down when I read that implication. And your rule is to not post {anything that could lead one to feel put down}. By implication, a subset of readers could think that the statement in question also puts down Islam, and all other faiths that are not Christian. For if Jews need to convert to Christianity for salvation, then would not Islamic people and all other people that are not Christian also have to do the same? So the statement not only leads me to feel put down when I read it, but there could be others also led to feel put down by the statement.
> > Lou Pilder
> > [ faith, 602 ]
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> When a statement is not sensitive to another's feelings, the person could feel put down. I feel put down when I read the statement because you admit that the statement is not sensitive to my feelings. In your rules here, when one rule is broken, many other rules could also be broken, like if a statement is not semsitive to another's feelings, the one that the statement is directed to could feel put down. This is because in your rule to not post what could lead someone to feel put down, the {feeling} is a result of what is posted and that could even be a jump to a conclusion about another or something insensitive or accusative. All of those could lead the subject person to {feel} put down and your rule is not about what is seen, but what the recipient {feels}. And I feel put down by the statement that you say is not sensitive to my feelings when I read it.
> But it is much more than that. For {pressure } is defined more than one way. One way is by repeated questioning or repeated statements, but another is by what any consequences could be to the recipient if they do not do what is said for the subject person to do. An example hypothetically could be if one poster tells another poster that they are to convert to Christianity or they will not be saved. The {consequences} of not being saved could be considered by a subset of readers to be {pressuring} the subject person.
> Let us look at your post from the past practice here which shows that when another's faith is put down, that could constitute pressure by you. And the {putting down} in your past practice here could be considered by a subset of readers as analogous to the statement in question as putting down another faith because in the statement in question Judaism could be thought by a subset of readers to be made out by the poster as {inferior} to Christianity because the statement says to convert to Christianity for me to save myself first. It also jumps to a conclusion that Judaism does not lead to salvation which a subset of readers could think is an insult and criticism of Judaism as being a faith that lacks a way to be saved and by implication could mean that Jews all over the world, not just me as a Jew here, can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity. To criticize a faith is to {put down} that faith. So a subset of readers could not only think that the post puts down Judaism, but those readers could also feel put down because the post remains unsanctioned and you say that unsanctioned posts have statements in them that are not against your rules. So a subset of Jewish readers could feel humiliation not only when they read the statement, but to see that you say that the statement is not against your rules because it is unsanctioned. And to say that one religion is to be embraced as in this case to be saved, is to demean all others as you admit.
> This stance that you show here has historical parallels that your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting about. But I say to you, that as long as you allow statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, there could be a subset of readers to see what you are doing as an invitation to post anti-Semitic expressions here that could lead to Jews being victims of anti-Semitic violence as that those readers could act out hatred toward the Jews in the community where they reside for you say that you do what will be good for this community as a whole and those readers could think that it will be good for their community as a whole also.
> Never again.
> Lou Pilder
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020918/msgs/7795.html
correction:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7795.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2014, at 10:23:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-heypstn » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2013, at 20:48:00
> Lou just a question are you telling Dr Bob how he should run his website? Just curious? Phillipa
Phillipa,
You wrote the above.
The site represents what is supportive and good for this community as a whole by the nature of Mr. Hsiung posting his philosophy of what he wants readers to consider before they post here. One such philosophy is that if what is going to be posted is not supportive, it should not be posted here for being supportive takes precedence.
I agree with his philosophy in a sense in that to go along with such, the administration of the content is neutral by the moderator and his deputies. It is when discrimination happens in the moderation of this site, which Mr. Hsiung states is an abuse of power, and I agree with him in that respect. And when statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down when they read it are unsanctioned, then I think that it is my responsibility as a Jew to do what I can here to stop him and his deputies of record from leaving anti-Semitic statements unsanctioned. For a subset of readers could think that those statements are not against the rules and are supportive according to Mr. Hsiung and his deputies of record which could lead to fostering hatred toward the Jews in a subset of readers by the nature that Mr. Hsiung states to try and trust him in what he does here because what he does in his thinking will be good for this community as a whole.
I am prevented from posting the historical parallels to that type of thinking due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. But I say to you, never again.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2014, at 14:29:26
In reply to Lou's replyThe Hsiung-Pilder discussion-gudphoar, posted by Lou Pilder on February 13, 2014, at 15:20:33
> In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does.
I see that not as an implication, but as jumping to a conclusion. Since he just said you, not all Jews.
> {pressure } is defined more than one way. One way is by repeated questioning or repeated statements, but another is by what any consequences could be to the recipient if they do not do what is said for the subject person to do. An example hypothetically could be if one poster tells another poster that they are to convert to Christianity or they will not be saved. The {consequences} of not being saved could be considered by a subset of readers to be {pressuring} the subject person.
That's a good point, but he didn't mention any consequences.
> > I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings
> That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears.
It turns out that's this thread. :-) So let's move on?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2014, at 15:14:39
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2014, at 3:58:53
> > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> >
> > OK, I posted my response.
>
> And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
>
> --
>
> > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
>
> > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
>
> I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently...].
You wrote that in your response to that I wrote:
[...a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down...as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved...].
Here we have the member posting to me to save myself first by converting to Christianity. The idea of {telling a person to *convert* to a religion} can be different from telling one to {*join* a faith-based group}. *Joining* a faith-based group could done by people of no faith, but {converting} implies that one is to change from the faith that they have to the faith that they are being told to take on. The difference here is that I am told to convert to Christianity to save myself, could imply:
A. That I am not saved
B. That changing, or converting, to Christianity offers me a way to be saved that Judaism does not
C. That it could be thought that what the poster writes could mean that Judaism does not lead to salvation but Christianity does.
D. That since the poster did not define what {saved} means here, he could have meant that I could suffer in burning fire for ever and ever, after I die, because Jews can not be saved from The Wrath of God as put forth by popular Christiandom in what they foster as the doctrine of hell, that consigns Jews to eternal torment in flames because they did not convert to Christianity. This is because the poster states to me that not only am I to convert first to save myself, but I am to convert to Christianity, which is greatly different from just converting. This is because he does not define what conversion entails , nor as to what branch of Christiandom thinking the conversion is to be to.
This, then, could mean that a subset of readers could think that the conversion to Christianity that I am being told to do, could be *any* branch of Christianity. And there are branches of Christianity that your prohibitions to me here prevent me from posting about, yet they exist today.
The question is if the statement in question puts down Judaism. {Putting down} is a phrase that has generally accepted meanings to it. The key in determining as to if a statements {puts down} something is to see if the statement criticizes, or ridicules, or insults, or degrades, or dehumanizes, or humiliates, or falsely discredits, lowers the esteem, or leads one to think that what is being put down is inferior to what is in comparison. Looking at what you say does not {put down} Judaism, could mean that you are saying that when the poster tells me to convert to Christianity to be saved, that all of those things that are generally accepted to constitute {putting down} can not be seen in his statement to me here. Yet it is plainly visible that the poster is telling me to {convert} to Christianity to {be saved}. If I was already saved, or if I could be saved by not converting to Christianity and remain a Jew, then could the poster have told me to convert to Christianity? How could that make sense? If the poster wants to post here how that could make sense, then I could post my response to him. Yet in my response, I would need to post what you have prohibited me to post, since it would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me. Yet today, this poster can post the Christian perspective in telling me to convert to Christianity to be saved. You say that, in part, Christians convert to Judaism {just as, or even more, frequently}. As to if that is true or not, it does not annul the fact of what the poster tells me to do. And anyway, your claim to that is unsubstantiated here and if you want to post a link to substantiate your claim, you could do so now and I will have the opportunity to respond accordingly. If you are using your claim to justify allowing the post to be considered by you to not put down Judaism, then if your claim is false, could there be no justification for you to allow the statement in question to be seen as supportive?
I would really like to see where you got this claim. For Jews do not seek converts in the manner that Christian groups do, and I know of only a few Jewish sects that even honor conversions and only if they are done in a strict compliance to Jewish law. In fact, many conversions to Judaism are for purposes of marriage which many branches of Judaism do not accept. To say that conversions to Judaism by Christians is done as, or even more frequently, than Jews converting to Christianity as any basis to allow what when I read the statement in question I feel put down, and if your claim is false, then I am asking you to take this opportunity to post a refutation of your claim and accept the fact that I feel put down as a Jew when I read not only the statement in question, but also when I read that the statement is not sanctioned in part because of your claim here which I am asking for you to validate.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2014, at 9:22:48
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2014, at 14:29:26
> > In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does.
>
> I see that not as an implication, but as jumping to a conclusion. Since he just said you, not all Jews.
>
> > {pressure } is defined more than one way. One way is by repeated questioning or repeated statements, but another is by what any consequences could be to the recipient if they do not do what is said for the subject person to do. An example hypothetically could be if one poster tells another poster that they are to convert to Christianity or they will not be saved. The {consequences} of not being saved could be considered by a subset of readers to be {pressuring} the subject person.
>
> That's a good point, but he didn't mention any consequences.
>
> > > I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings
>
> > That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears.
>
> It turns out that's this thread. :-) So let's move on?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote that you do not see that as an implication.
The statement in question tells me to convert to Christianity first to be saved. An {implication} is what can be {deduced} from what is in the statement that is not directly written.
Now let us look at what can, or can not, be deduced from what can be seen.
A. That Judaism is a faith that can not lead to salvation. Can this be deduced from what the statement writes?
The aspect that one is told to {convert} from Judaism to Christianity to be saved is what is written. Since the poster does not specify what {saved} means, then the generally accepted understanding of when one tells a Jew to convert to Christianity to be saved, is to be saved from The Wrath of God. This is generally understood to mean there is reference to the doctrine of hell promulgated by mainstream Christianity, where Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity are consigned after death for all eternity to be in flames and agony of being burnt in conscience torment in excruciating pain forever. That is the {consequences} that could be deduced from the statement in question that is the implied {pressure}.
Now the {putting down} of Judaism is by the comparison of Judaism with Christianity in that a subset of readers could think that Judaism is an inferior faith because a Jew can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity which can be deduced by the fact that the statement says to convert to Christianity to be saved. Now you say that [...I see that not as an implication...]. But there could be a subset of readers that do see it as an implication, those that do see it as an implication such as me, and your rule is to not post anything that could lead someone to feel put down. Your rule is not that posters are not to post what you feel put down about.
A question becomes then as to if a reasonable reader could deduce from the statement that it puts down Judaism. I consider myself a reasonable reader here and can deduce that the statement says that Judaism is inferior to Christianity on the basis that the statement says for me, as a Jew, to save myself first by converting to Christianity. That does jump to a conclusion that the poster is saying that I am not saved as you admit here. But it is also saying by implication that Judaism is a faith that those people embracing that faith can not be saved, which a subset of readers could consider to be putting down Judaism, for the statement says that I as a Jew am to convert to Christianity to be saved, which can induce the thinking of a reasonable reader to think that is a *condition* for myself and other Jews to be saved also. If you think otherwise, I invite you now to post here your rationale and I could have the opportunity to respond to what you post to me.
But it is much more than that here. By the fact that the statement is not sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that you are validating what the statement could purport about Judaism as you state that unsanctioned post have statements in them that are not against your rules. I am asking that you post to that post (directly to the text} so that the statement is linked by your post to show that you repudiate what the statement could purport about Judaism which could reverse any thinking that you are ratifying the libel against the Jews in the statement, for there can be a subset of readers that see it as I do, and see it as putting down Judaism on the basis of what the generally accepted meaning of putting down means in that those readers could think that the statement says that Judaism is inferior to Christianity on the basis that it could be deduced from what is written. It is my position here that if there is not a repudiation directly to the text by you, then a subset of readers could think that you are ratifying the put down of Judaism as those readers could see. This could encourage more defamatory statements about Judaism and allow you and the poster to develop more and more defamatory postings because that since there is no sanction to the statement directly, others could think that it is supportive and the poster of the statement could continue with analogous statements. This IMHO could create a community of acceptance for hatred toward Jews and could recruit young people that are vulnerable to propaganda against Jews and create a foundation for real-world hatred of Jews.
As to going on, you could choose from the many offered posts in this thread by me. One of which is the post that has the link to Matthew 27 and the verses that I cite as putting down Jews.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 15, 2014, at 23:12:34
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-huzimp » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2014, at 9:22:48
> As to going on, you could choose from the many offered posts in this thread by me. One of which is the post that has the link to Matthew 27 and the verses that I cite as putting down Jews.
Could you do me a favor and post a link? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2014, at 12:57:26
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 15, 2014, at 23:12:34
> > As to going on, you could choose from the many offered posts in this thread by me. One of which is the post that has the link to Matthew 27 and the verses that I cite as putting down Jews.
>
> Could you do me a favor and post a link? Thanks,
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
Here is a link to another post that has statements that put down Jews, which are antisemitic statements that I would like to discuss before I post the link to the post that has the link to Matthew 27.
Lou Pilder
The poster offers links and it is the last link offered as John 5. The verses that put down Jews that I would like for you to post a repudiation are in particular but not limited to:
verses 18,23,38,and 42
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2014, at 22:26:59
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-phozdr » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 16, 2014, at 12:57:26
> The poster offers links and it is the last link offered as John 5. The verses that put down Jews that I would like for you to post a repudiation are in particular but not limited to:
> verses 18,23,38,and 42
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.htmlYes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2014, at 13:21:11
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 16, 2014, at 22:26:59
> > The poster offers links and it is the last link offered as John 5. The verses that put down Jews that I would like for you to post a repudiation are in particular but not limited to:
> > verses 18,23,38,and 42
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.html
>
> Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39...].
That does not annul the fact that the other verses that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, show to the reader. And in the one, it insults Islamic people also and others that do not accept the claim concerning the son.
The verses that show are in the link and whatever is in a link is directly to the text. Your rule states not to post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it, *period*. A subset of readers could think that you used the word {period} to show that there is not an exception to your posted prohibition to not post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it.
If the poster wanted to only post to verse 39, they could have posted only 39. I think that there could be a subset of Jewish and other readers that see that the other verses could foster anti-Semitic feelings and arouse hatred toward the Jews, and feel put down when they read them, for I feel put down when I read them. And your rule is to not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about others and to be sensitive to the feelings of others {even if you are quoting someone else}, even if the statements are in the bible, and not put down those of other faiths, for being supportive takes precedence.
You say that one match could start a forest fire, and you are correct in that. And you say that you do not wait to put out the fire. As long as those verses that could foster antisemitic feelings are standing un repudiated by you, the fire of hate could still spread. This is because what is not sanctioned is considered by you that the statements in the unsanctioned post are not breaking your rules. And statements that do not break the rules could be considered to be supportive by you because you state that being supportive takes precedence. This is how historically a way for anti-Semitism could be fostered in a community. Your prohibitions to me prevent me from posting about that here so that I can not post my own repudiation to what the statements in question could purport.
What the verses that I have asked for you to post a repudiation to here, in that a subset of readers could think that they are anti-Semitic and not supportive and are not in accordance to your rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths, if not repudiated could allow all other posters to post links with anti-Semitic content in then when your rule is to not post links that have anything in them that are not in accordance with your rules because what is in the link is directly to the text. By you leaving the statements in this post in question post un repudiated, a subset of readers such as Jewish children, could feel humiliation and ridicule and think that the forum allows the fostering of anti-Semitism. And worse, they could also think that you are orchestrating the hatred toward the Jews that could be seen in the depiction of the Jews in the verses in question, by saying that the poster was linking to only one verse in the passage that was posted in its entirety. I do not think that immunizes the statements in question as supportive or that they will be good for this community as a whole. But you are using that tactic that others historically have used to arouse hatred toward the Jews by allowing third-party posters to have impunity to post anti-Semitic statements.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2014, at 18:38:50
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-grndnky » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2014, at 13:21:11
> > > The poster offers links and it is the last link offered as John 5. The verses that put down Jews that I would like for you to post a repudiation are in particular but not limited to:
> > > verses 18,23,38,and 42
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.html
> >
> > Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39...].
> That does not annul the fact that the other verses that put down Jews, which are anti-Semitic statements, show to the reader. And in the one, it insults Islamic people also and others that do not accept the claim concerning the son.
> The verses that show are in the link and whatever is in a link is directly to the text. Your rule states not to post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it, *period*. A subset of readers could think that you used the word {period} to show that there is not an exception to your posted prohibition to not post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it.
> If the poster wanted to only post to verse 39, they could have posted only 39. I think that there could be a subset of Jewish and other readers that see that the other verses could foster anti-Semitic feelings and arouse hatred toward the Jews, and feel put down when they read them, for I feel put down when I read them. And your rule is to not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about others and to be sensitive to the feelings of others {even if you are quoting someone else}, even if the statements are in the bible, and not put down those of other faiths, for being supportive takes precedence.
> You say that one match could start a forest fire, and you are correct in that. And you say that you do not wait to put out the fire. As long as those verses that could foster antisemitic feelings are standing un repudiated by you, the fire of hate could still spread. This is because what is not sanctioned is considered by you that the statements in the unsanctioned post are not breaking your rules. And statements that do not break the rules could be considered to be supportive by you because you state that being supportive takes precedence. This is how historically a way for anti-Semitism could be fostered in a community. Your prohibitions to me prevent me from posting about that here so that I can not post my own repudiation to what the statements in question could purport.
> What the verses that I have asked for you to post a repudiation to here, in that a subset of readers could think that they are anti-Semitic and not supportive and are not in accordance to your rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths, if not repudiated could allow all other posters to post links with anti-Semitic content in then when your rule is to not post links that have anything in them that are not in accordance with your rules because what is in the link is directly to the text. By you leaving the statements in this post in question post un repudiated, a subset of readers such as Jewish children, could feel humiliation and ridicule and think that the forum allows the fostering of anti-Semitism. And worse, they could also think that you are orchestrating the hatred toward the Jews that could be seen in the depiction of the Jews in the verses in question, by saying that the poster was linking to only one verse in the passage that was posted in its entirety. I do not think that immunizes the statements in question as supportive or that they will be good for this community as a whole. But you are using that tactic that others historically have used to arouse hatred toward the Jews by allowing third-party posters to have impunity to post anti-Semitic statements.
> Never again.
> Lou Pilder
>
Mr. Hsiung,
Here is another anti-Semitic post that I am asking for you to purge by posting what readers could see to repudiates what is in the statement about the Jews. Let us look at the post:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/735373.html
Here we have that you join the poster in what a subset of readers could think in that you are validating what is posted by saying,[...That's good...]. But your rule is not to post what could put down those of other faiths. And a generally accepted meaning of the phrase to put down is that if a comparison could be seen, the comparison depreciates or implies that one is inferior to the other.
Here we have Judaism contrasted with Christianity by the poster stating that the Law was given by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. And your rule is that it doesn't matter if what is posted is what the poster believes, for if it is not supportive, it should not be posted because being supportive takes precedence. A subset of readers such as Jewish readers could think that the contrast not only puts down Judaism by implying that Judaism lacks grace and truth, but that Christianity is superior to Judaism because it does have grace and truth. This also could be thought that Judaism is false, and that Christianity is true. And since Judaism rejects that claim of Christianity, a Jewish reader could not only feel put down, but could feel humiliation and ridicule because what can be seen could be a ratification by you by saying that it is good, that it is good for the poster to believe it so that these readers could think unless you post further, that you are saying that Judaism is bad, since Christianity is good according to that you said,[...that's good...]. These readers could also think that you are {in concert} with the poster as what could lead a Jewish poster to feel put down is not sanctioned and your rules state that unsanctioned posts have statements that are not against your rules.
By the poster being allowed to post with impunity could further lead to the fostering of anti-Semitism here. For others could also post analogous statements against Jews with impunity by the precedent set.
I am prevented from posting a repudiation of the post in the manner that I need to, due to the prohibitions posted to me here by you. Yet today, a subset of readers could think that this site allows anti-Semitism to be fostered by the nature that the leader posts his tag-line as that he thinks it is good as to what is posted about the Jews. That could lead to encouragement for others to post other anti-Semitic statements and think that the forum could be a portal for anti-Semitic expression.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2014, at 1:15:49
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-grndnky » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 17, 2014, at 13:21:11
> > Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
>
> The verses that show are in the link and whatever is in a link is directly to the text. Your rule states not to post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it, *period*.That's true. Maybe I assumed there wouldn't be anti-Semitic statements on that page.
How about if we move on?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 18, 2014, at 13:04:59
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 18, 2014, at 1:15:49
> > > Yes, those verses are there, but the specific one she was linking to was verse 39.
> >
> > The verses that show are in the link and whatever is in a link is directly to the text. Your rule states not to post a link that has anti-Semitic statements in it, *period*.
>
> That's true. Maybe I assumed there wouldn't be anti-Semitic statements on that page.
>
> How about if we move on?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...Maybe I assumed there wouldn't be anti-Semitic statements on that page...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting readers to think, if anything, from what you wrote.
If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or False:
A. Do you think that you have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to see if what is in a posted link here is in accordance with your rules here?
B. There could be another reason that I did not sanction the post for the anti-Semitic statements because I wrote that {maybe} I assumed that there were not.
C. redacted by respondent
D. The anti-Semitic statements could put down Jews and you as a Jew here, Lou, and lower the opinion of you here because I am allowing the statements to stand which could mean that a subset of readers could think that anti-Semitism is supportive by me and not against my rules.
E. I agree with you, Lou, that there is not any exception to allow statements that could put down Jews and will post something that repudiates the statements to show that the statements that are anti-Semitic are not supportive and they are not in accordance with my rule to not post links that have anti-Semitic statements, period.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2014, at 21:38:53
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-rhepue » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on February 18, 2014, at 13:04:59
> A. Do you think that you have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to see if what is in a posted link here is in accordance with your rules here?
True. Maybe I was irresponsible in that case.
> B. There could be another reason that I did not sanction the post for the anti-Semitic statements because I wrote that {maybe} I assumed that there were not.
True. There could be, I'm not sure, it was a long time ago.
> D. The anti-Semitic statements could put down Jews and you as a Jew here, Lou, and lower the opinion of you here because I am allowing the statements to stand which could mean that a subset of readers could think that anti-Semitism is supportive by me and not against my rules.
I don't know. I haven't read them carefully.
> E. I agree with you, Lou, that there is not any exception to allow statements that could put down Jews and will post something that repudiates the statements to show that the statements that are anti-Semitic are not supportive and they are not in accordance with my rule to not post links that have anti-Semitic statements, period.
True, there isn't any exception in the FAQ. False, I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 20, 2014, at 9:49:55
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2014, at 21:38:53
> > A. Do you think that you have a responsibility to make a reasonable effort to see if what is in a posted link here is in accordance with your rules here?
>
> True. Maybe I was irresponsible in that case.
>
> > B. There could be another reason that I did not sanction the post for the anti-Semitic statements because I wrote that {maybe} I assumed that there were not.
>
> True. There could be, I'm not sure, it was a long time ago.
>
> > D. The anti-Semitic statements could put down Jews and you as a Jew here, Lou, and lower the opinion of you here because I am allowing the statements to stand which could mean that a subset of readers could think that anti-Semitism is supportive by me and not against my rules.
>
> I don't know. I haven't read them carefully.
>
> > E. I agree with you, Lou, that there is not any exception to allow statements that could put down Jews and will post something that repudiates the statements to show that the statements that are anti-Semitic are not supportive and they are not in accordance with my rule to not post links that have anti-Semitic statements, period.
>
> True, there isn't any exception in the FAQ. False, I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I'm not going to post something now. Since that post's already been archived...].
The grammatical structure of your statement could lead a subset of readers to think that you are reneging on the terms and conditions that we agreed on for this discussion on the basis that you are saying that you have a justification for not posting a repudiation to a post here that has anti-Semitic statements which is that the post in in the archives.
But the post here was also in the archives.
I would like for you to post any difference between the two posts as that you did post some sort of repudiation to the one and you are now saying that you are justified to not post a repudiation to the other because it is in the archives where the other post was in the archives. If you could post your rationale, if any, for the posting of a repudiation to the one and not the other, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Here is the link to the post where you did post a repudiation and it was in the archives.
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