![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 402 to 426 of 795. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2014, at 22:33:18
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-vadehratfy, posted by Lou Pilder on January 13, 2014, at 19:42:33
Lou it's too long to read now. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 17, 2014, at 7:20:04
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-vadehratfy, posted by Lou Pilder on January 13, 2014, at 19:42:33
> > readers could think that I was just not reading the board then.
>
> your TOS states that if you are not reading, then your deputies do your wishes and act in your behalf. So the subset of readers that know the TOS here ... could think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the communityThat could be a subset. But they would be jumping to a conclusion, too, since it could have been that the deputies weren't reading the board then, either.
> You also wrote that what was said about me, I could post a repudiation. But that IMHO could not show that you are not ratifying what is said about me, which is what is in question.
I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you. How would I know if you were under any burden? Also, I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held. Nor do I see posting that you're under a burden as libel. Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel?
> You also wrote whether a God that imposes burdens is a bad God. But the statement in question uses the word {treacherous} as in a {treacherous form of slavery} that is {imposed} by God.
OK, I could address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery is putting down that God.
> That is a claim that is false, for I am not under any burden from the God that I give service and worship to here for any reason.
That's a fine repudiation, could you just post that one sentence on that thread?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 17, 2014, at 8:07:45
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 17, 2014, at 7:20:04
> > > readers could think that I was just not reading the board then.
> >
> > your TOS states that if you are not reading, then your deputies do your wishes and act in your behalf. So the subset of readers that know the TOS here ... could think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
>
> That could be a subset. But they would be jumping to a conclusion, too, since it could have been that the deputies weren't reading the board then, either.
>
> > You also wrote that what was said about me, I could post a repudiation. But that IMHO could not show that you are not ratifying what is said about me, which is what is in question.
>
> I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you. How would I know if you were under any burden? Also, I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held. Nor do I see posting that you're under a burden as libel. Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel?
>
> > You also wrote whether a God that imposes burdens is a bad God. But the statement in question uses the word {treacherous} as in a {treacherous form of slavery} that is {imposed} by God.
>
> OK, I could address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery is putting down that God.
>
> > That is a claim that is false, for I am not under any burden from the God that I give service and worship to here for any reason.
>
> That's a fine repudiation, could you just post that one sentence on that thread?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote that the use of the phrase that a God imposes a treacherous form of slavery is a statement that you could address as a statement that could be seen by a subset of readers as constituting {putting down} that God.
If I was to post any repudiation, my repudiation does not address as to that a subset of readers could think that by you leaving the statement in question to stand, that you are validating that the statement is not against your rules. By the nature of that the statement stands, anti-Semitic hatred could be fostered as a subset of readers that could think that the statement is supportive by you and will be good for this community as a whole, could post analogous statements that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings. The fact that there are such posts after the one in question was posted, could also lead Jewish readers to feel shamed and humiliated here. There could also be {stigmatization} fostered here of Jews as the statement says that Jews give service and worship to a God that imposes a treacherous form of slavery upon them. The statement has been used historically, and I am prevented from posting that here due to your prohibitions posted to me here, which prevents me from posting my own repudiation in the manner that I would want to post. The statement is false, but there is much more to this that I am prohibited by you to post.
I would like very much for you to do the addressing of the statement, and then go on to the posts that offer links to verses that are anti-Semitic. One of those posts cites John 5. There are others so I am requesting that you choose from them as to which one you would like to address first. The one with {his blood be upon us} Matthew 27:25, is one.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 17, 2014, at 17:01:31
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-trcheuslv » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 17, 2014, at 8:07:45
> > > > readers could think that I was just not reading the board then.
> > >
> > > your TOS states that if you are not reading, then your deputies do your wishes and act in your behalf. So the subset of readers that know the TOS here ... could think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
> >
> > That could be a subset. But they would be jumping to a conclusion, too, since it could have been that the deputies weren't reading the board then, either.
> >
> > > You also wrote that what was said about me, I could post a repudiation. But that IMHO could not show that you are not ratifying what is said about me, which is what is in question.
> >
> > I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you. How would I know if you were under any burden? Also, I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held. Nor do I see posting that you're under a burden as libel. Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel?
> >
> > > You also wrote whether a God that imposes burdens is a bad God. But the statement in question uses the word {treacherous} as in a {treacherous form of slavery} that is {imposed} by God.
> >
> > OK, I could address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery is putting down that God.
> >
> > > That is a claim that is false, for I am not under any burden from the God that I give service and worship to here for any reason.
> >
> > That's a fine repudiation, could you just post that one sentence on that thread?
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote that the use of the phrase that a God imposes a treacherous form of slavery is a statement that you could address as a statement that could be seen by a subset of readers as constituting {putting down} that God.
> If I was to post any repudiation, my repudiation does not address as to that a subset of readers could think that by you leaving the statement in question to stand, that you are validating that the statement is not against your rules. By the nature of that the statement stands, anti-Semitic hatred could be fostered as a subset of readers that could think that the statement is supportive by you and will be good for this community as a whole, could post analogous statements that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings. The fact that there are such posts after the one in question was posted, could also lead Jewish readers to feel shamed and humiliated here. There could also be {stigmatization} fostered here of Jews as the statement says that Jews give service and worship to a God that imposes a treacherous form of slavery upon them. The statement has been used historically, and I am prevented from posting that here due to your prohibitions posted to me here, which prevents me from posting my own repudiation in the manner that I would want to post. The statement is false, but there is much more to this that I am prohibited by you to post.
> I would like very much for you to do the addressing of the statement, and then go on to the posts that offer links to verses that are anti-Semitic. One of those posts cites John 5. There are others so I am requesting that you choose from them as to which one you would like to address first. The one with {his blood be upon us} Matthew 27:25, is one.Mr. Hsiung,
You wrote that the subset of readers that see a post unsanctioned here could think that what is in the post is not against your rules. This is because you have posted that here.
Then you say that those people would have to jump to a conclusion, that what is in the post unsanctioned is not against your rules, because you and the deputies of record then could have not read the post in question. I say not and here is why.
Your TOS states that you do what will be good for this community as a whole and also that readers are to try to trust you and that you will appreciate it if they did. So the subset of readers that know your TOS here that see unsanctioned posts, could take you at your word that what is in the post is not against your rules as you state. This could mean that those people could think that unsanctioned anti-Semitic statements are not against your rules. Granted, you and all the deputies then could have not read the post in question, but since you state that you do what will be good for this community as a whole, those readers could think that even if you and your deputies then did not read it, the statements in the post that are unsanctioned could be considered by those readers to not be against your rules. They could also know of the notification system and also know that you give yourself the option of not responding to notifications from me and that you think that it will be good for readers to see that you do not have to respond to me. Another aspect of this is that there could be negligence by you and all of the deputies if the statement is unsanctioned and that it should have been. If that be the case, I would like for you to post answer to the following so that I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Were you and the deputies of record in this post in question all negligent in not reading it?
B. If so, could you post an apology for yourself and ask the deputies of record the to also post their individual apology?
C. Would you take responsibility for any deaths or injuries that could be shown to have come to someone as a result of you and your deputies being negligent, if you agree that you and those deputies did not read the statement in question that puts down Jews as that the God that they give service and worship to has imposed a treacherous form of slavery upon them?
D. Do you think that you and your deputies have right to be negligent in regards to not sanctioning posts that are anti-Semitic or ridicule Jews for giving service and worship to the God that delivered their ancestors out of bondage in Egypt?
Lou Pider
Posted by Phillipa on January 17, 2014, at 21:10:12
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-trcheuslv » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 17, 2014, at 8:07:45
One statement I agree as posts are very long. Not criticizing them just saying that I feel maybe people won't read long posts. I don't know. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 8:22:53
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 17, 2014, at 7:20:04
> > > readers could think that I was just not reading the board then.
> >
> > your TOS states that if you are not reading, then your deputies do your wishes and act in your behalf. So the subset of readers that know the TOS here ... could think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
>
> That could be a subset. But they would be jumping to a conclusion, too, since it could have been that the deputies weren't reading the board then, either.
>
> > You also wrote that what was said about me, I could post a repudiation. But that IMHO could not show that you are not ratifying what is said about me, which is what is in question.
>
> I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you. How would I know if you were under any burden? Also, I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held. Nor do I see posting that you're under a burden as libel. Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel?
>
> > You also wrote whether a God that imposes burdens is a bad God. But the statement in question uses the word {treacherous} as in a {treacherous form of slavery} that is {imposed} by God.
>
> OK, I could address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery is putting down that God.
>
> > That is a claim that is false, for I am not under any burden from the God that I give service and worship to here for any reason.
>
> That's a fine repudiation, could you just post that one sentence on that thread?
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I am not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you...}
and,
[...how would I know if you were under any burden...?]
and,
[...I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held...]
and,
[...Nor do I see that posting that you are under a burden is libel...]
and,
[...Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel..?]
Let us understand here that I am made the subject by the poster, and that you and your deputies can control the content as seen by the fact that you post to not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused, and not to post what could put down those of other faiths, and not to post what could be seen as jumping to a conclusion about someone. You state that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down because one match could start a forest fire and you do not wait until the fire is started to sanction a statement that could put down/accuse another. This is further exemplified in the fact that you state that if a statement is seen here unsanctioned by you and your deputies, that readers could think that what is posted is not against your rules and is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole. You also have a notification system to alert posts to you and your deputies that you say that you use except that you give yourself the option to ignore my notifications to you so that it will be good for others to see that you do not have to respond to me.
Since I am the subject person in the statement in question, there is that the poster jumps to a conclusion about me in that what is in question, that the God that I give service and worship to has imposed a treacherous form of slavery upon me, is stated without sanction by you or any of up to six deputies of yours that act in your behalf when you are not on line. You even state here as to how anyone would know if I was under any burden. The statement by the poster is false, and brings me into ridicule, hatred and scorn of others. The statement, on a mental health forum chaired by a psychiatrist with deputies to control the content, offers an expectation of protection from harmful statements to the users of the site. If you and your deputies continue to not post a repudiation of the harmful statement against me, then a subset of readers could think, IMHO, that all of you are being malicious toward me which harms me even more by bringing me into focus as a target that does not get the protection from you and your deputies that others receive as that you post sanctions to other statements that put down or accuse or jump to a conclusion about others here. This is what the crux of libel is. Libel is the writing of a false statement that brings a person into ridicule, humiliation, belittlement and in this case here, the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
Lou Pilder
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 8:37:16
In reply to Lou's response-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-libel » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 8:22:53
> Libel is the writing of a false statement that brings a person into ridicule, humiliation, belittlement and in this case here, the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
Is to libel God also libeling all those who would believe in Him? Maybe. Just a question.
Is it libel to God to recommend to someone that they believe in the divinity of a statue? What about recommending to others that they believe in a different model of religion than those the Jews and Christians believe in; all of this without recommending the rejecting of any other god specifically? Can I tell someone that they are a good person without having to identify a bad person.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 9:52:09
In reply to Re: Lou's response-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-libel » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 8:37:16
> > Libel is the writing of a false statement that brings a person into ridicule, humiliation, belittlement and in this case here, the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
>
> Is to libel God also libeling all those who would believe in Him? Maybe. Just a question.
>
> Is it libel to God to recommend to someone that they believe in the divinity of a statue? What about recommending to others that they believe in a different model of religion than those the Jews and Christians believe in; all of this without recommending the rejecting of any other god specifically? Can I tell someone that they are a good person without having to identify a bad person.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
Let us look at this post..
Lou
[ faith, 392216 ]
Posted by SLS on January 18, 2014, at 9:57:38
In reply to Lou's response-ptdwnuddrphaithz » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 9:52:09
> Scott,
> Let us look at this post..
> Lou
> [ faith, 392216 ]I couldn't find it.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 10:05:54
In reply to Lou's response-ptdwnuddrphaithz » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 9:52:09
> > > Libel is the writing of a false statement that brings a person into ridicule, humiliation, belittlement and in this case here, the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
> >
> > Is to libel God also libeling all those who would believe in Him? Maybe. Just a question.
> >
> > Is it libel to God to recommend to someone that they believe in the divinity of a statue? What about recommending to others that they believe in a different model of religion than those the Jews and Christians believe in; all of this without recommending the rejecting of any other god specifically? Can I tell someone that they are a good person without having to identify a bad person.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott,
> Let us look at this post..
> Lou
> [ faith, 392216 ]correction:
[ admin, 392214 ]
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 11:29:00
In reply to Lou's response-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-libel » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 8:22:53
> > > > readers could think that I was just not reading the board then.
> > >
> > > your TOS states that if you are not reading, then your deputies do your wishes and act in your behalf. So the subset of readers that know the TOS here ... could think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
> >
> > That could be a subset. But they would be jumping to a conclusion, too, since it could have been that the deputies weren't reading the board then, either.
> >
> > > You also wrote that what was said about me, I could post a repudiation. But that IMHO could not show that you are not ratifying what is said about me, which is what is in question.
> >
> > I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you. How would I know if you were under any burden? Also, I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held. Nor do I see posting that you're under a burden as libel. Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel?
> >
> > > You also wrote whether a God that imposes burdens is a bad God. But the statement in question uses the word {treacherous} as in a {treacherous form of slavery} that is {imposed} by God.
> >
> > OK, I could address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery is putting down that God.
> >
> > > That is a claim that is false, for I am not under any burden from the God that I give service and worship to here for any reason.
> >
> > That's a fine repudiation, could you just post that one sentence on that thread?
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...I am not in a position to ratify (or repudiate) what was said about you...}
> and,
> [...how would I know if you were under any burden...?]
> and,
> [...I don't see how a repudiation would decrease the respect and regard in which you were held...]
> and,
> [...Nor do I see that posting that you are under a burden is libel...]
> and,
> [...Would posting that Job was under a burden be libel..?]
> Let us understand here that I am made the subject by the poster, and that you and your deputies can control the content as seen by the fact that you post to not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused, and not to post what could put down those of other faiths, and not to post what could be seen as jumping to a conclusion about someone. You state that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down because one match could start a forest fire and you do not wait until the fire is started to sanction a statement that could put down/accuse another. This is further exemplified in the fact that you state that if a statement is seen here unsanctioned by you and your deputies, that readers could think that what is posted is not against your rules and is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole. You also have a notification system to alert posts to you and your deputies that you say that you use except that you give yourself the option to ignore my notifications to you so that it will be good for others to see that you do not have to respond to me.
> Since I am the subject person in the statement in question, there is that the poster jumps to a conclusion about me in that what is in question, that the God that I give service and worship to has imposed a treacherous form of slavery upon me, is stated without sanction by you or any of up to six deputies of yours that act in your behalf when you are not on line. You even state here as to how anyone would know if I was under any burden. The statement by the poster is false, and brings me into ridicule, hatred and scorn of others. The statement, on a mental health forum chaired by a psychiatrist with deputies to control the content, offers an expectation of protection from harmful statements to the users of the site. If you and your deputies continue to not post a repudiation of the harmful statement against me, then a subset of readers could think, IMHO, that all of you are being malicious toward me which harms me even more by bringing me into focus as a target that does not get the protection from you and your deputies that others receive as that you post sanctions to other statements that put down or accuse or jump to a conclusion about others here. This is what the crux of libel is. Libel is the writing of a false statement that brings a person into ridicule, humiliation, belittlement and in this case here, the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
> Lou PilderMr. Hsiung,
Now let us look at that you posted to me,
[...I'm not in a position to ratify (or repudiate)what was said about you...].
Your TOS states that unsanctioned (un repudiated) statements could be thought by readers to be not against the rules of yours. By leaving the statement that libels another unsanctioned, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the libel. Then by posting a repudiation by you, that could show that you are not validating the libel.
What could also be thought by a subset of readers, is that by you not posting a repudiation to the libel, that you could really be intentionally developing or contributing to the objectionable material which misrepresents your contention in your TOS that if something is not supportive, it should not be posted for support takes precedence, even if one believes the objectionable material, even if one is quoting someone else, and even if it is somewhat true.
What could be worse is that by you leaving the objectionable material without repudiation by you or your deputies, a subset of readers IMHO could think that you are designing your site to be a portal for anti-Semitic expression. There is historical reference to when one is a publisher that plays a significant role in developing content where Jewish readers could feel humiliated, ridiculed and belittled and have their faith insulted. Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2014, at 10:46:06
In reply to Lou's response-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on January 18, 2014, at 11:29:00
> You state that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down because one match could start a forest fire and you do not wait until the fire is started
I guess my thinking about this has shifted. Yes, one match can start a forest fire. And Smokey Bear is right when he says, "Only you can stop forest fires." I used to see him as pointing to me (and the deputies). Now I'm pointing to posters.
> Since I am the subject person in the statement in question, there is that the poster jumps to a conclusion about me
Right, that's the first issue that could be addressed. Here's an analogy: Poster X calls poster Y short. Neither X nor I know if Y is tall or short. X is jumping to a conclusion, and Y could feel put down. Options are:
1. I could intervene and tell X not to call Y short.
2. Y could say he isn't short.I see #1 as unnecessary because #2 is sufficient. But I suppose if Y isn't too concerned about what others think of him, both might be unnecessary.
> the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
That's the second issue, which I said I'd address if you addressed the first. But maybe the second doesn't need to be contingent on the first, since you might not be too concerned about what others think of you. Since you have a shield. If that's the case, let me know, and I'll go ahead with the second.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 19, 2014, at 17:37:48
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2014, at 10:46:06
> > You state that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down because one match could start a forest fire and you do not wait until the fire is started
>
> I guess my thinking about this has shifted. Yes, one match can start a forest fire. And Smokey Bear is right when he says, "Only you can stop forest fires." I used to see him as pointing to me (and the deputies). Now I'm pointing to posters.
>
> > Since I am the subject person in the statement in question, there is that the poster jumps to a conclusion about me
>
> Right, that's the first issue that could be addressed. Here's an analogy: Poster X calls poster Y short. Neither X nor I know if Y is tall or short. X is jumping to a conclusion, and Y could feel put down. Options are:
>
> 1. I could intervene and tell X not to call Y short.
> 2. Y could say he isn't short.
>
> I see #1 as unnecessary because #2 is sufficient. But I suppose if Y isn't too concerned about what others think of him, both might be unnecessary.
>
> > the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
>
> That's the second issue, which I said I'd address if you addressed the first. But maybe the second doesn't need to be contingent on the first, since you might not be too concerned about what others think of you. Since you have a shield. If that's the case, let me know, and I'll go ahead with the second.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote the above.
Let us look at these two posts.
Lou PIlder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1044544.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1051121.html
The shield of faith does not stop stones thrown at me here. This shield will not prevent me from breaking my leg or getting killed in an airplane crash or from emotional/psychological harm that could come to me from libel against me or prevent me from being a victim of anti-Semitic violence. What the shield of faith does do, is to shield me from having hatred infused into me by others.
I am prevented from posting here what IMHO could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions due to your prohibitions posted to me here, for if not for those prohibitions by you to me here, I could post how those that harbor hate could overcome those shackles and be freed from the bondage of hate and have a new life and sing a new song.
But the post in question here belittles me as a Jew that could cause a subset of readers to think that you are ratifying the ridicule of me for being a Jew because you state that un sanctioned posts could be thought that what is posted, to not be against your rules. That could lead those to post analogous statements and for a subset of readers to feel that Jews are an inferior group of people to humiliate here because you do not sanction what could lead a Jew to feel put down in this post in question. The post is a response by the poster to a subject line of the poster that wrote about the Israelites being delivered out of slavery in Egypt that had the commandments to the Jews given to Moses after the Exodus. The post is not about me, but about all Jews. I am just used as a example because the poster knows that I am one Jew here to use for the statement that the God that the Jews give service and worship to imposes a treacherous form of slavery upon all Jews, not just me as a Jew here.
The mockery of Jews, if allowed to stand, could be thought by a subset of readers that you are validating what the statement says as being supportive by you, and will be good for this community as a whole. I can not stop that kind of thinking by those that see you as having that in your mind, for it is you that controls the content here by allowing hate to stand or not. The hate against Jews that can be seen by a subset of readers could spread like a fire even if I was to post a denial that I have a burden imposed into me by the God in question and even if you change your rules so that you do not have to be a fireman to put out the fire of hate here. Your changing of your rules is {after the fact} and could be seen by a subset of readers as a transparent attempt to immunize you from responsibility where no immunization IMHO is deserved. There is historical precedence where the leader of a country changed the rules to allow hatred toward the Jews to abound. Never again.
Lou PIlder
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 20, 2014, at 10:58:36
In reply to The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-ekspoazphaktoe » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 19, 2014, at 17:37:48
> > > You state that you do not wait to sanction a statement that could put down because one match could start a forest fire and you do not wait until the fire is started
> >
> > I guess my thinking about this has shifted. Yes, one match can start a forest fire. And Smokey Bear is right when he says, "Only you can stop forest fires." I used to see him as pointing to me (and the deputies). Now I'm pointing to posters.
> >
> > > Since I am the subject person in the statement in question, there is that the poster jumps to a conclusion about me
> >
> > Right, that's the first issue that could be addressed. Here's an analogy: Poster X calls poster Y short. Neither X nor I know if Y is tall or short. X is jumping to a conclusion, and Y could feel put down. Options are:
> >
> > 1. I could intervene and tell X not to call Y short.
> > 2. Y could say he isn't short.
> >
> > I see #1 as unnecessary because #2 is sufficient. But I suppose if Y isn't too concerned about what others think of him, both might be unnecessary.
> >
> > > the poster insults the God that brought the Israelites out of bondage from slavery in Egypt, which insults the Jews that cherish that God.
> >
> > That's the second issue, which I said I'd address if you addressed the first. But maybe the second doesn't need to be contingent on the first, since you might not be too concerned about what others think of you. Since you have a shield. If that's the case, let me know, and I'll go ahead with the second.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote the above.
> Let us look at these two posts.
> Lou PIlder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130109/msgs/1044544.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1051121.html
> The shield of faith does not stop stones thrown at me here. This shield will not prevent me from breaking my leg or getting killed in an airplane crash or from emotional/psychological harm that could come to me from libel against me or prevent me from being a victim of anti-Semitic violence. What the shield of faith does do, is to shield me from having hatred infused into me by others.
> I am prevented from posting here what IMHO could save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions due to your prohibitions posted to me here, for if not for those prohibitions by you to me here, I could post how those that harbor hate could overcome those shackles and be freed from the bondage of hate and have a new life and sing a new song.
> But the post in question here belittles me as a Jew that could cause a subset of readers to think that you are ratifying the ridicule of me for being a Jew because you state that un sanctioned posts could be thought that what is posted, to not be against your rules. That could lead those to post analogous statements and for a subset of readers to feel that Jews are an inferior group of people to humiliate here because you do not sanction what could lead a Jew to feel put down in this post in question. The post is a response by the poster to a subject line of the poster that wrote about the Israelites being delivered out of slavery in Egypt that had the commandments to the Jews given to Moses after the Exodus. The post is not about me, but about all Jews. I am just used as a example because the poster knows that I am one Jew here to use for the statement that the God that the Jews give service and worship to imposes a treacherous form of slavery upon all Jews, not just me as a Jew here.
> The mockery of Jews, if allowed to stand, could be thought by a subset of readers that you are validating what the statement says as being supportive by you, and will be good for this community as a whole. I can not stop that kind of thinking by those that see you as having that in your mind, for it is you that controls the content here by allowing hate to stand or not. The hate against Jews that can be seen by a subset of readers could spread like a fire even if I was to post a denial that I have a burden imposed into me by the God in question and even if you change your rules so that you do not have to be a fireman to put out the fire of hate here. Your changing of your rules is {after the fact} and could be seen by a subset of readers as a transparent attempt to immunize you from responsibility where no immunization IMHO is deserved. There is historical precedence where the leader of a country changed the rules to allow hatred toward the Jews to abound. Never again.
> Lou PIlderMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...But maybe the second does not need to be contingent on the first since you may not be too concerned about what others think about you. Since you have a shield. If that is the case, let me know, and I will go ahead with the second...].
I am unsure as to if you are going to address the second part of the objectionable statement against the Jews or not. I contend that the statement insults the God that the Jews give service and worship to and is an anti-Semitic statement regardless of what the first part says about me. Yet today, you say what I have posted in this post that you wrote.
Looking at what you wrote, I need to know if you are or are not going to post your repudiation as that I have responded to you that the shield of faith does not stop what could cause emotional distress inflicted upon me by seeing libel toward me unsanctioned here, or statements that could arouse antisemitic feelings that could mean that a subset of readers could think that it is not against your rules to post such and I am concerned about what others think about me and what could be thought about the Jews. So if you could let me know what you intend to do, I could respond accordingly.
A. I will post a repudiation only to the second part of the statement.
B. I will post a repudiation to the second part which could also be a repudiation of the first part
C. I will post separate repudiations to each part
D. I will not post a repudiation of the second part because you say that you are concerned about what readers think about you and the Shield doe snot protect you from any harm that could come to you that could arise out of the statement being allowed to stand.
E. something else
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2014, at 4:05:16
In reply to Lou's repy- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-wytzuhpdk, posted by Lou Pilder on January 20, 2014, at 10:58:36
> > The shield of faith does not stop stones thrown at me here. ... What the shield of faith does do, is to shield me from having hatred infused into me by others.
OK, I misunderstood. It protects you from hate, but not from hurt.
> E. something else
My current idea is:
I won't post a repudiation of the first part. If you want to, that's fine. If you chose to let the first part stand, that's fine, too.
I won't exactly post a repudiation of the second part, either. I'll address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery would be putting down that God. I'm not sure it would be. I don't see saying God imposed suffering on Job as putting down God. Is a treacherous form of slavery so different? It's not clear to me that it is.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 21, 2014, at 20:20:46
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2014, at 4:05:16
> > > The shield of faith does not stop stones thrown at me here. ... What the shield of faith does do, is to shield me from having hatred infused into me by others.
>
> OK, I misunderstood. It protects you from hate, but not from hurt.
>
> > E. something else
>
> My current idea is:
>
> I won't post a repudiation of the first part. If you want to, that's fine. If you chose to let the first part stand, that's fine, too.
>
> I won't exactly post a repudiation of the second part, either. I'll address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery would be putting down that God. I'm not sure it would be. I don't see saying God imposed suffering on Job as putting down God. Is a treacherous form of slavery so different? It's not clear to me that it is.
>
> BobMr Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I won't exactly post a repudiation...I'll address whether saying a God might impose treacherous forms of slavery would be putting down that God...I don't see saying God imposed suffering on Job as putting down God...Is a treacherous form of slavery so different?...].
The post is not about Job. I am the subject person in the post. Your rules are to not post what could put down/accuse another or jump to a conclusion or overgeneralize. To say that Job had suffering imposed by God to him does not mean that all Jews will have suffering imposed upon them. And the subject is not suffering, but slavery imposed to me by God.
The post says that the god that I give service and worship to imposes a treacherous form of slavery to me by saying that I have a burden to save souls. There is no evidence stated to lead to that conclusion. The statement is false and could lead me to feel put down. The rule by you is not to post what puts down, but to not post anything that could lead one to {feel} put down and you also agree that you can not substitute your feelings for other's feelings. There is overgeneralization to apply what happened to Job to all Jews. But it is much more than this. The statement insults that God that the Jews give service an worship to by claiming that God uses a treacherous form of slavery imposed into those that worship Him by using me as an example. The use of {treacherous} is an insult to the {character} of the God in question that the Jews cherish. The statement says that God is a liar and a deceiver and not to be trusted. The claim is false and could arouse anti-Semitic feelings to a subset of people and lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel shame and humiliation and ridicule. You want to allow it? There was a time when it was promulgated throughout the land, propaganda to humiliate the Jews and insult the God that they cherish and to ridicule Jews.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2014, at 4:52:23
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-woent » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 21, 2014, at 20:20:46
> The post is not about Job. I am the subject person in the post.
I see the post as having 2 parts. You're the subject of the 1st, and God is the subject of the 2nd. You're in the best position to repudiate the 1st part, for example:
> The post says ... that I have a burden to save souls. There is no evidence stated to lead to that conclusion. The statement is false
I'm open to addressing the 2nd part:
> To say that Job had suffering imposed by God to him does not mean that all Jews will have suffering imposed upon them. And the subject is not suffering, but slavery imposed to me by God.
In that case, wouldn't it follow that saying God imposed a treacherous form of slavery on you doesn't mean God will impose a treacherous form of slavery on all Jews?
> The use of {treacherous} is an insult to the {character} of the God in question that the Jews cherish. The statement says that God is a liar and a deceiver and not to be trusted. The claim is false and could arouse anti-Semitic feelings to a subset of people and lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel shame and humiliation and ridicule.
"Job ... was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Yet God imposed suffering on Job. Could that lead a subset of people to feel God is not to be trusted?
> > treacherous
> > 2 a : likely to betray trustCould the Book of Job evoke feelings of shame, humiliation, and anti-Semitism?
> Never again.
That seemed familiar, but I couldn't place it, so I did a quick search:
> > the slogan of the Jewish Defense League
> > The Jewish Defense League (JDL) is a Jewish religious-political militant organization whose stated goal is to "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary". While the group asserts that it "unequivocally condemns terrorism" and states that it has a "strict no-tolerance policy against terrorism and other felonious acts", it was classified as "a right-wing terrorist group" by the FBI in 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 23, 2014, at 8:20:56
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2014, at 4:52:23
> > The post is not about Job. I am the subject person in the post.
>
> I see the post as having 2 parts. You're the subject of the 1st, and God is the subject of the 2nd. You're in the best position to repudiate the 1st part, for example:
>
> > The post says ... that I have a burden to save souls. There is no evidence stated to lead to that conclusion. The statement is false
>
> I'm open to addressing the 2nd part:
>
> > To say that Job had suffering imposed by God to him does not mean that all Jews will have suffering imposed upon them. And the subject is not suffering, but slavery imposed to me by God.
>
> In that case, wouldn't it follow that saying God imposed a treacherous form of slavery on you doesn't mean God will impose a treacherous form of slavery on all Jews?
>
> > The use of {treacherous} is an insult to the {character} of the God in question that the Jews cherish. The statement says that God is a liar and a deceiver and not to be trusted. The claim is false and could arouse anti-Semitic feelings to a subset of people and lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel shame and humiliation and ridicule.
>
> "Job ... was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Yet God imposed suffering on Job. Could that lead a subset of people to feel God is not to be trusted?
>
> > > treacherous
> > > 2 a : likely to betray trust
>
> Could the Book of Job evoke feelings of shame, humiliation, and anti-Semitism?
>
> > Never again.
>
> That seemed familiar, but I couldn't place it, so I did a quick search:
>
> > > the slogan of the Jewish Defense League
>
> > > The Jewish Defense League (JDL) is a Jewish religious-political militant organization whose stated goal is to "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary". While the group asserts that it "unequivocally condemns terrorism" and states that it has a "strict no-tolerance policy against terrorism and other felonious acts", it was classified as "a right-wing terrorist group" by the FBI in 2001.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I did a quick search..] and found that the Jewish Defense League uses the motto, "never again".
There could IMHO be a subset of readers that could think that you could be wanting to mean that the slogan, "never again" is exclusively adopted by the JDL or even coined by them by your citation to Wikipedia. And those readers could think a lot more from what you wrote here, including IMHO what could put me in a false light and decrease the respect, regard and confidence in which I am held and induce hostile, disagreeable and disparaging feeling and opinions against me and that I could be associated with the JDL. This is compounded by your prohibitions posted to me that prevent me from fully answering you in the manner that I need to from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me,in order to stop you and you deputies of record and anyone else you get to be in concert with you to post messages that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings, from allowing anti-Semitic messages to be seen here as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole
The expression, "never again" was not formulated by the JDL. The JDL uses the phrase like a great number of other Jews and others, including the President of the United States. It is not exclusive to the JDL and I am not a member of that group nor do I support violence to repudiate hatred toward the Jews, even in internet content providers that allow anti-Semitism to be considered to be conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community, and supportive, and will be good for a community as a whole.
Please note my objection for you to post what could have the potential IMHO to arouse ill-will toward Jews in that your citation of the JDL could IMHO falsely associate Jews with the JDL in its use of the phrase "never again".
The phrase, "never again" has an origin. Here it is:
http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/x201cnever-againx201d
And here it is used by the President of the United States:
http://www.haaretz.com/Jewish-world/obama-we-must-prove-that-never-again-is-not-an-empty-slogan-1.425528
Lou PIlder
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2014, at 23:11:27
In reply to Lou' reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-phalzlyt » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 23, 2014, at 8:20:56
> There could IMHO be a subset of readers that could think that ... I could be associated with the JDL.
> The expression, "never again" was not formulated by the JDL. The JDL uses the phrase like a great number of other Jews and others, including the President of the United States. It is not exclusive to the JDL and I am not a member of that group nor do I support violence to repudiate hatred toward the JewsThanks for clarifying that. I agree, a subset of readers could've thought that. Though members of the JDL are welcome here, too.
Bob
Posted by Ronnjee on January 25, 2014, at 10:11:17
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2014, at 23:11:27
The older of the two, the ADL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League
and the newer organization, the JDL:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
http://www.fact-index.com/j/je/jewish_defense_league.html
* I can't find a US website for the JDL
As a person of Jewish heritage, I've been aware of what I consider frighteningly overzealous Zionism, which is obviously what the JDL is all about.
Note that the ADL is more like the ACLU, whereas the JDL has been described as militant, terrorist, etc..
I've met a few Israelis and many self-described Zionists. Every single one of them scared the crap out of me.
Posted by Ronnjee on January 25, 2014, at 10:42:44
In reply to The JDL Is Different From the ADL, posted by Ronnjee on January 25, 2014, at 10:11:17
A little search of PB shows that the phrase "Never Again" (the motto of the militant JDL) involving LP's posts/responses, appears 487 times. The term "ad nauseum" comes to mind.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 25, 2014, at 12:31:43
In reply to Re: The JDL Is Different From the ADL, posted by Ronnjee on January 25, 2014, at 10:42:44
> A little search of PB shows that the phrase "Never Again" (the motto of the militant JDL) involving LP's posts/responses, appears 487 times. The term "ad nauseum" comes to mind.
Ronnjee,
You wrote,[...the phrase "Never Again"..(the motto of the militant JDL) involving LP's posts/responses appear 487 times..."ad nauseum" comes to mind...].
I am unsure as to what the point is that you are trying to make here, if any. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or False:
A. You want to associate me with the JDL
B. There is a limit determined by you as to how many times a phrase can be seen here
C. (If so), you, Lou, have used it over your limit
D. The God that the Jews give service and worship to can have posts here that insult that God and be considered to be supportive and conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and will be good for this community as a whole.
E. Hate groups that are developed on the internet by anti-Semitism being allowed to be considered to be supportive by leading readers to think that the God that the Jews give service and worship to can be insulted, should be allowed to proliferate.
F. redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by Ronnjee on January 25, 2014, at 13:06:39
In reply to Lou's response- pstpum » Ronnjee, posted by Lou Pilder on January 25, 2014, at 12:31:43
Lou, I respectfully decline your invitation for direct dialogue.
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 26, 2014, at 13:36:33
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on January 24, 2014, at 23:11:27
Bob are you aware that the JDL is on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate Groups? Why would they be welcome on your board? Are members of the KKK and Al Quaida welcome too?
> Thanks for clarifying that. I agree, a subset of readers could've thought that. Though members of the JDL are welcome here, too.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 26, 2014, at 14:33:06
In reply to Why do you welcome members of hate groups? » Dr. Bob, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 26, 2014, at 13:36:33
> Bob are you aware that the JDL is on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of Hate Groups? Why would they be welcome on your board? Are members of the KKK and Al Quaida welcome too?
Sure, why not? I welcome members of those groups if they're interested in peer support (and if they follow the guidelines). Hating doesn't have to mean being hated.
Bob
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