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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 78 to 102 of 308. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2010, at 8:55:01
In reply to Re: potential for hurt, potential to help, posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2010, at 4:10:54
> That could be the news from Lake Wobeher, where all the women are weak, all the men are bad looking, and all the posters are below average.
Oops.
Now, what?
Forgiveness perhaps?
- Scott
Posted by BayLeaf on July 10, 2010, at 12:41:02
In reply to Re: potential for hurt, potential to help, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2010, at 1:06:00
suspects you had glass of wine under your belt when you wrote that! :-)
i love this smiley face tool!! :-)
the instant "get out of PBC" card! :-)
Seriously...
"I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I see how someone could've felt put down if they thought I meant that literally." is an example might use in the future of a poor apology. You know that you hurt people's feelings and that they DID feel put down. The way you wrote that took no responsiblity for what you did. I would encourage you to re-write it as follows"
"I'm sorry that I hurt people's feelings. I see that some people here felt put down by what I wrote. My comment was poorly written, as the feelings evoked were honestly not my intention......what I meant was....Again, I am very sorry my comments caused upset to members of this community. I hope there is a better understanding now of my intent."
Bay
Posted by jade k on July 10, 2010, at 13:34:48
In reply to my spidey sense » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 10, 2010, at 12:41:02
Hi Bay,
> suspects you had glass of wine under your belt when you wrote that! :-)
Suspects we all needed one when we read it :-)
> i love this smiley face tool!! :-)Isn't it cool! And "board certified" to be effective and safe :-)
> the instant "get out of PBC" card! :-)So far :-)
> Seriously...
> "I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings. I see how someone could've felt put down if they thought I meant that literally." is an example might use in the future of a poor apology. You know that you hurt people's feelings and that they DID feel put down. The way you wrote that took no responsiblity for what you did.Its the gift that keeps on giving :-)
>I would encourage you to re-write it as follows"
>
> "I'm sorry that I hurt people's feelings. I see that some people here felt put down by what I wrote. My comment was poorly written, as the feelings evoked were honestly not my intention......what I meant was....Again, I am very sorry my comments caused upset to members of this community. I hope there is a better understanding now of my intent."Okay if I don't hold my breath? Its difficult with all this smiling. :-)
> Bay
>
>
~Jade :-) Off thread, affective dejavu disorder
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
In reply to my spidey sense » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 10, 2010, at 12:41:02
> I believe you never had any intention to have us "rate" each others posts.
>
> You knew there would be "much ado" about your post, yet you did it and disappeared.
>
> Further, I suggest you knew there would be a long thread about "Lake Wobeher". In fact, you had that material ready, word for word (sorta). So, the only mystery left (for me) is why?
>
> JadeYou seem to be pretty sure about what I knew and what I intended. I didn't disappear. What material do you see me as having had ready?
--
> I would encourage you to re-write it
>
> BayLeafOK:
I'm sorry that I hurt people's feelings. I see that some people here felt put down by what I wrote. The feelings evoked were honestly not my intention. What I meant was that instead of overestimating their abilities like some people, Babblers may underestimate themselves (when they assume their posts will not be selected as helpful). They are more helpful than they think, and their answers are more valuable than they assume. I wish they could see all the good they do and would try not to focus on negatives. I hope there is a better understanding now of my intent.
--
More attention is being paid to the messenger than the message.
Bob
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2010, at 4:40:18
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
> More attention is being paid to the messenger than the message.
I would agree.
- Scott
Posted by PartlyCloudy on July 11, 2010, at 9:59:39
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
Posted by BayLeaf on July 11, 2010, at 14:06:06
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
Thank you.
>
> More attention is being paid to the messenger than the message.
>
> BobI set the bar higher when the messenger is you. I expect more than avoidance of a PBC. I expect thoughtfulness, and a generous spirit as a guide to other posters.
Of course, occasional screw ups are allowed. I'm pretty sure you are human.
I apprecicate you rewriting your post.
Bay
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 13, 2010, at 9:20:18
In reply to Re: 'Lake WobeBob effect' » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 11, 2010, at 14:06:06
> Thank you
>
> PartlyCloudy> Thank you.
>
> Of course, occasional screw ups are allowed. I'm pretty sure you are human.
>
> I apprecicate you rewriting your post.You're welcome, thank you, and I appreciate you suggesting a better way to express myself.
> 'Lake WobeBob effect'
"Wobeher" is pronounced Woe-be-here, you know, not Woe-be-her. Maybe seeing it as the latter contributed to the reaction some people had?
> I set the bar higher when the messenger is you. I expect more than avoidance of a PBC. I expect thoughtfulness, and a generous spirit as a guide to other posters.
>
> BayI suppose I encourage a high bar by using this signature...
Bob
Posted by jade k on July 13, 2010, at 12:21:55
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
> > I believe you never had any intention to have us "rate" each others posts.
> >
> > You knew there would be "much ado" about your post, yet you did it and disappeared.
> >
> > Further, I suggest you knew there would be a long thread about "Lake Wobeher". In fact, you had that material ready, word for word (sorta). So, the only mystery left (for me) is why?
> >
> > Jade
>
> You seem to be pretty sure about what I knew and what I intended. I didn't disappear. What material do you see me as having had ready?>Bob
You are correct, I was "geussing" as to what you intended. I was trying to provoke an answer as to "why", I suppose. I did not understand this as humor, however, I should not presume to know what your intentions are/were. I'm sorry.>"Wobeher" is pronounced Woe-be-here, you know, not Woe-be-her. Maybe seeing it as the latter contributed to the reaction some people had?
Yes. I wondered why it wasn't named "Lake Wobehim". Glad you straightened that out.
Thank you for the apology.
~Jade
Posted by BayLeaf on July 13, 2010, at 19:16:10
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 13, 2010, at 9:20:18
we've witnessed a lotta backpedaling over the years, no wonder you are so reticent! (sorry NYT, but this behavior may completely discount the possibility of brilliance).
[insert required smiley face here]
Posted by PartlyCloudy on July 14, 2010, at 6:49:29
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on July 13, 2010, at 19:16:10
> we've witnessed a lotta backpedaling over the years, no wonder you are so reticent! (sorry NYT, but this behavior may completely discount the possibility of brilliance).
>
> [insert required smiley face here]I'm telling you, it's a vanishing skill outside the world of politics.
Posted by sigismund on July 14, 2010, at 18:01:43
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » BayLeaf, posted by PartlyCloudy on July 14, 2010, at 6:49:29
>it's a vanishing skill outside the world of politics
Wrecking things is so much simpler than fixing them.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2010, at 10:08:59
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobehere effect' » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 13, 2010, at 12:21:55
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
In reply to Re:Posters Posts and Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 8:37:49
> > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
>
> NO.
>
> Are you really considering this?Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
Bob
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 15:22:18
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> BobI have to say, I'm a little stunned. Posting because I want to help someone when I can is positive reinforcement enough.
When I start a thread, sometimes people post alot, sometimes people are sick of posting about the same thing over and over, but they post. I would never think of rating a persons post.
Most threads offer not one best answer, but many different answers, from different perspectives. I enjoy, also, the occasional spontanious post thats just funny. It might be the funniest thing I hear all day.
Do we really want to rate for highest points, when its the "collective post" that offers the best answer? I won't be in competition with fellow babblers. But maybe thats the "point". You'll certainly weed out the posters who are less knowledgeable.
Are you trying to rebuild babble into a site where all the "stuff" is gone, and its more of a quick go to place for the most intelligent answers and facts?
Like I said, its your site, and I respect that. However, I strongly disagree that a point system, or any kind of rating system, will help babble become a better place. I think you will lose many posters, and not because we live in "lake Wobehere", but because this is not a competition. I think I offer enough posts that are helpful to feel like a valuable member. Not the most knowledgeable, by far, but I'm okay with that.
I hope you give this a lot of thought and listen to whatever feedback you get before you take this step.
Thank you for listening (I hope).
~Jade
btw-"positive reinforcement"??? What are we now to you, Pavlov's dogs?
Posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 15:28:42
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
> > > Would posters get more of a sense that their posts help if other posters awarded them points.
> >
> > NO.
> >
> > Are you really considering this?
>
> Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
>
> BobWoof!
BTW, I think it's a silly idea.
Posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
In reply to Re: Point system » Dr. Bob, posted by ron1953 on July 17, 2010, at 15:28:42
I think the concept of points is quite offensive to the seriousness of the posters and the pain they are trying to deal with by coming here.
I remember many times in the past when I posted I was deep despair and had nowhere else to go with my distress. Fortunately at the time there were (and still are today) people here, and on the Samaritans, who were prepared to listen and respond as one human being to another. I can't even begin to imagine how awful it would have been to discover that they were doing it out of some competitive need for 'points' or e-bucks or other power trip. And what a loss for them in their humanity if they were. Dr Bob, I hope you will drop this ill-conceived idea very quickly. It goes against the whole logic and ethos of a site of this kind.
Posted by 10derHeart on July 17, 2010, at 16:11:43
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 16:39:34
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming... » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 15:22:18
> Do we really want to rate for highest points, when its the "collective post" that offers the best answer? I won't be in competition with fellow babblers. But maybe thats the "point". You'll certainly weed out the posters who are less knowledgeable.
This is the only purpose I can see. And it would disappoint me very much as it seems opposite the point of view Dr. Bob has had in the past when he encouraged posters to, for example, greet newcomers.
I would be less likely to post with this system. But a different type of poster might be more likely to post. Maybe Dr. Bob would like to change the type of posters Babble attracts.
Posted by violette on July 17, 2010, at 17:34:17
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by vwoolf on July 17, 2010, at 16:00:12
I think it was nice of Deneb to think of ways to improve the site, and it was a creative idea. People thought it through and those who considered this idea saw the drawbacks and expressed their opinions that overall, people do not think such a system will benefit the community.
VWoolf described the effect of a point system for a mental health support site very nicely...and I agree though I don't care so much about how a point system would personally effect me. VW's post was eloquent; it really resonated with me and led me to think it is one which I think Dr. Bob should especially take note of.
It seems sometimes, Dr. Bob, what you think may be helpful for posters doesn't match up with what posters tell you feels beneficial to us. I think most of us realize (by now I hope) you can't make everyone happy, but at the same time, when you get strong, adverse opinions for feedback, it might be important to more strongly weigh the opinions of the members who actually use the forum over your own opinions?
You can 'attract' more people here by incentives and marketing such as Facebook and Twitter...and filtering the posts to a dozen other sites...but it's kinda like sales-where the customer is incentivized to buy the product-then later realizes they should have made a different choice and regrets their decision when things turn out to be not so desirable...
Like when you buy that dishwasher from that appliance store-you take it home, it's broke. You can't fix it yourself, your stuck with it-while the retail dealer argues you 'should have' bought the warranty if you expected (the brand new appliance) to be fixed. (This is not uncommon, btw.)
I am not inclined to post here much anymore due to several reasons. Not being able to edit or delete posts concerns me, such as what I may write during times of mental distress. I saw others thought there are some drawbacks to this, very valid concerns such as being bullied or 'looking' ridiculous when others' delete information. At least you are here to address those concerns in the unlikeliness it would happen, and at least someone could delete their own post if others deletions somehow made them feel uncomfortable...So that's a feature that drives me away, as it makes more sense to allow that feature on a forum where people discuss sensitive topics, some in vulnerable mental states. The benefits of this feature greatly outweigh the risks, imo.
Some of the aspects of this forum led me to find another place that is much safer and where I'm comfortable with the moderation...It turns out I fit in much better with the community as it is more therapy minded as a whole. But I probably would not have sought out another forum if I was happy with this one.
I'm not concerned if no one misses my posting here since I don't feel I fit in well anyway, but wanted to let you know the reasons why I am not inclined to post here much anymore-FWIW. I check in here out of habit still, but partly from OCD anxiety which is slowly disappearing, but sorta lingering. I've already been welcomed and have developed a relationship with others who I found to be extremely supportive on another forum, so I probably will just slowly disappear from here, as many others seem to do...
As I mentioned before, you could always do polls such as survey monkey to see what features members prefer here-and publiclly post the results for discussion.
I noticed that recently you did try to make some (more subtle) improvements...there's still much room for growth, however. So good luck with the forum...there's alot of potential here. :)
Posted by fayeroe on July 17, 2010, at 17:35:39
In reply to Re: 'Lake Wobeher effect', posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2010, at 0:29:47
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:38:17
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
Dr. Bob,
Why did you redirect my thread, and change my title? Do we really need to connect this to a tired thread that was dead and buried? This thread was about your lake analogy. Its old. In addition, this officially now falls under Denebs thread again. Now why on earth would you do that? Really. I don't get it.
Posted by Deneb on July 17, 2010, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: Point system might be coming..., posted by Dinah on July 17, 2010, at 16:39:34
I think Dr. Bob just want to reward everyone for posting, not just the "good" replies. That's what I had in mind.
I think people would post regardless if you get points or not. Getting points would just be a bonus reward, so you feel good about helping others out and you have tangible proof of your helpfulness. You can look at all the points you have and think, wow, I've helped a lot of people! Then you feel good about yourself.
I wouldn't think of it as competition. For me it would just be about competing against myself, trying to help out more people than I did last week or something.
I dunno, that's how I see it. I'm sure Dr. Bob doesn't want to discourage people from posting.
Seems like lots of Babblers don't like my idea though, so I won't be disappointed if Dr. Bob decides not to do this.
I guess ideally this points system would make people feel good about their contributions, but maybe Babblers will think in a negative way, negating the positives of this system, in which case, this wouldn't be helpful.
Maybe Babblers will have to learn to think more positively before something like this will work.
Posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:47:34
In reply to Re: Redirect point thread » Dr. Bob, posted by jade k on July 17, 2010, at 17:38:17
You know what, when you start moving posts around, changing titles, etc. I know the discussion is over (for me) I don't think you give a rats *** what most of us think. Maybe no one else caught that, but it was a dirty trick.
C ya~Jade
Posted by sigismund on July 17, 2010, at 18:26:23
In reply to Re: Point system, posted by Dr. Bob on July 17, 2010, at 14:44:43
>Yes, I'm really considering it. But I haven't decided. I do like the idea of posters being rewarded for being helpful. It would be a form of positive reinforcement. And maybe there could be other ways to be rewarded, too?
Posters are rewarded to some extent for being helpful through the responses they get back.
I think having a rating system is cruel I guess.
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