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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 86. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 8:51:59
In reply to Re: Interesting » llurpsienoodle, posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 23:40:51
I am sorry that some posters feel that they should not post.
I felt that way long ago and far away because my posts were ignored.
I decided to post whenever I wanted to, whether or not I got answers.
If I had something to say......I said it. That did get me blocked, so I guess I said too much. :-)Seriously, I do think the civility thing has gone too far. There are actually times when I am being silly on social or self-esteem that I look over my shoulder and wonder if someone is disapproving. And before everyone gets their panties in a wad, those are my feelings and I take responsibility for them....but there have been times when I thought we might get stopped on a thread.
Again, I am sorry that someone would come to a support forum and feel left out or silenced.
It isn't a support forum if we feel left our or if we're afraid to post.
Posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 8:59:15
In reply to Interesting, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 17, 2008, at 22:02:31
I was going to respond on more reasons, but the truth is I just don't care anymore. This place isn't what it used to be 3 years ago. I feel less vested here. When the psych board only gets one new post a day, there is a problem.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 10:10:34
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » llurpsienoodle, posted by johnj on July 18, 2008, at 8:51:00
> I had no recourse when I was banned and even tried to email the deputies to no avail. I am not even sure if their emails were even correct.I have never known the email addresses of the deputies to be incorrect. It may be that the deputies deferred the matter to Dr. Bob?
> I posted an email for Dr. Bob on the Admin board and was mocked right away and that person was never warned. I think it is because they used to be a deputy and they appear to get special treatment and Dr. Bob never answered my question.
Did you report my post? If it got reported, it did get reviewed by admin. I do think that it can appear that I get special treatment, and it would make sense to conclude that it could be because I was a deputy. I don't meant to sound arrogant, but I wonder how many folks who believe I get special treatment have considered that I was and am knowledgeable enough with the civility rules to have been a deputy. I have a very good idea of where the line is, at least when the line isn't moving, and I do skip along that line from time to time. It might appear that I am getting away with something, but what would I be "getting away with" if my post is indeed within the civility rules?
I didn't report your reply to me, fyi, though I have no objection to the notification system in general nor about my own posts. I just felt more like making my own request regarding a part of the content. And while I wouldn't exactly use the word "mocked" to characterize my intent, I did want to try to add a little perspective, though perhaps in an over-the-top manner. I apologize for hurt my post caused. I didn't intend any hurt. Rather, I was trying to express my feelings and reactions to your post. I would have done better to do that more directly.
>
> AND, the emails I received. Someone who I thought was a friend gave my personal email out and I was attacked by supporters of a poster and then the spam began. Thanks babble for being supportive!I'm sorry that happened to you. I don't condone that behavior. If it continues to be a problem, Dr. Bob might be able to help you with that if you forward stuff to him that you find concerning.
> This post was not intended to attack anyone, but I am sure the deputies will find something wrong with it.
I appreciate that you do not intend to attack with your post. Sometimes though, an attack can be perceived even without intent. I would imagine that almost anyone might feel hurt, angry, offended, or some other unpleasant feeling to learn that they are perceived as "rarely consistent" and "unfair" in their actions--especially given how much effort and agony goes into making absolutely sure that they (once "we") were being as absolutely fair and consistent as possible.
Regards,
gg, who isn't really paying a great deal of attention to the line at the moment. Color me lazy today. It's the heat.
Posted by johnj on July 18, 2008, at 11:25:00
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » johnj, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 10:10:34
You wrote:
I'd rather not see poverty, Can we make that invisible at will, too? It's too hard to look away. Makes my neck and other parts hurt.
"I have a very good idea of where the line is, at least when the line isn't moving, and I do skip along that line from time to time. It might appear that I am getting away with something, but what would I be "getting away with" if my post is indeed within the civility rules?"
Just because you got away with it does not mean it was right. You above all people KNOW sarcasm is a warnable offense. Can I be sarcastic without recourse? How could I complain while I was banned? I tried. Also, you only wrote that because of the other thread, right? So, you were doing what you were chastising me for doing, really no different in my book. You were just getting me back if you really think about it.
About my private email, it doesn't really matter because if people want to be uncivil they can have at it.
I would like a board where we could discuss things without being watched. Basically, a person could say what they want and if we had the ability to turn off a poster then one could do that but still feel they could be open without fear. But, Dr. Bob would have to give up some of that control which I doubt he could do.
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:19:27
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » johnj, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 10:10:34
You are, of course, correct. You have the same training we do in knowing the rules and precedent on application. We don't, and can't, and in my opinion shouldn't, base our actions on anything but the rules and our knowledge of Dr. Bob's precedents, and what we think he would have us do.
But I'm sure you're also aware that the best way to find yourself with a change in where the line is drawn, is to admit to skipping along it. :) I'm firmly convinced that at least a couple of the current rules were put in place in response to my behavior. If Dr. Bob should institute a new Please Don't Skip rule, I hope you find it as amusing as I did when he put a new rule in effect that just happened to address behavior I was aware of exhibiting.
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:22:40
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:19:27
Sigh. As soon as I hit submit, I realized that my post could have a few different interpretations. I only meant it as a reflection on my experiences with the babble process of rule enforcement and change, nothing else.
Posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 12:36:52
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:19:27
Could it be that skipping along the line(by anyone) (especially since that line keeps changing) can cause one to view those who do, as getting preferred treatment?
I do believe John has made a valid point, some get preferred treatment it is only human nature, but sometimes it is very clear to see. I may have been one getting such treatment when I first came to the sit, I admit it. (I don't anymore)I haven't noticed the preferred treatment taken place anymore, it could be that deputies we do have now are doing a good job being fair. In fact I would say a great job even with the odd new rules that keep appearing out of nowhere.
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 12:40:56
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately, posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 12:36:52
> Could it be that skipping along the line(by anyone) (especially since that line keeps changing) can cause one to view those who do, as getting preferred treatment?
> I do believe John has made a valid point, some get preferred treatment it is only human nature, but sometimes it is very clear to see. I may have been one getting such treatment when I first came to the sit, I admit it. (I don't anymore)
>
> I haven't noticed the preferred treatment taken place anymore, it could be that deputies we do have now are doing a good job being fair. In fact I would say a great job even with the odd new rules that keep appearing out of nowhere.i believe that there are times when "skipping along the line" is used as entertainment for the skipper.
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:07:08
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately, posted by johnj on July 18, 2008, at 11:25:00
> You wrote:
>
> I'd rather not see poverty, Can we make that invisible at will, too? It's too hard to look away. Makes my neck and other parts hurt.
>
> "I have a very good idea of where the line is, at least when the line isn't moving, and I do skip along that line from time to time. It might appear that I am getting away with something, but what would I be "getting away with" if my post is indeed within the civility rules?"
>
> Just because you got away with it does not mean it was right."Right" is not the issue. Within or without the civility guidelines is the issue as far as being warned goes.
> You above all people KNOW sarcasm is a warn able offense.
True, but I also know that it is quite difficult to assess given that we cannot assume intent. At least Dr. Bob says that he cannot assume and does not consider intent, even though it appears to me that he does upon occasion, particularly if it's a poster he's formed conclusions about. And I don't think those conclusions are the most dynamic elements in his thought processes, though I can only hypothesize, of course, and this is certainly a tangent.
> Can I be sarcastic without recourse?
I don't know. I don't know your linguistic skills.
> How could I complain while I was banned? I tried.
I don't recall if one can use the notification system while blocked from posting (no one is "banned"). One can certainly use it upon return. Or email Dr. Bob and/or the deputies with your notification.
> Also, you only wrote that because of the other thread, right? So, you were doing what you were chastising me for doing, really no different in my book. You were just getting me back if you really think about it.
Wow, that's a lot of inferences you're making there. I feel kind of special that you've invested that energy in why I might write a few words somewhere. On second thought, not that special. I think I'd say momentarily puzzled. You'll have to refresh my memory about "the other thread". Nothing is coming to mind, and I don't particularly feel like searching for it. And I chastised you for something? I've forgotten that, too. Living in the moment is good for the moment, but it tends to result in stuff slipping away when the moment passes.
> I would like a board where we could discuss things without being watched. Basically, a person could say what they want and if we had the ability to turn off a poster then one could do that but still feel they could be open without fear.I believe that would be Usenet, at least in my limited experience there.
So uh, yeah. Allrighty then.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:27:25
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:19:27
> You are, of course, correct. You have the same training we do in knowing the rules and precedent on application. We don't, and can't, and in my opinion shouldn't, base our actions on anything but the rules and our knowledge of Dr. Bob's precedents, and what we think he would have us do.
I agree. But of course there's also how comfortable our bras feel at a particular moment, whether or not we are PMSing or in some other way impaired due to hormones or gender or emotional state or whatever, whether or not we've had or will have ice cream that day, the weather, the tides, the planetary alignments, chakras, electromagnetic interference, how fast the internet connection is, and all of those other "influences" on deputy behavior. Can't discount those, eh? ;)
>
> But I'm sure you're also aware that the best way to find yourself with a change in where the line is drawn, is to admit to skipping along it.Sad but true. Though I'm not aware of what behavior of yours may have generated a new rule. :)
> If Dr. Bob should institute a new Please Don't Skip rule, I hope you find it as amusing as I did when he put a new rule in effect that just happened to address behavior I was aware of exhibiting.
I think I'd snort and giggle if I saw that in a subject line. And given my near catastrophic klutziness lately, it's probably not a bad suggestion. ;) Though I think it might be quite a leap from decoding semantic meaning to deciding one's mental image/symbolic livliness of posting with awarenes of and avoidance of that line. And how could one know if it's simply out of enjoyment of utilizing a skill or strength one has or if there is somehow some ill will involved? Or some other internal dynamic? How could he really know if one were doing the ol' "I'm not touching you" torture, which is another state of intent/activity/mindset or whatever that one might have when posting just within the lines? Or if one merely feels like skipping along a line/wall just to test and/or celebrate to themselves their agility in a particular area? I don't know that he can. It would always be an inference of intent/state. Not objective. No way to be consistent or use precedents that I can imagine. Though I'm not as "creative" about making rules for judging that stuff.
Anywhoo, I think I get what you mean and where it came from. :) And I'm babbling now.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:53:15
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately, posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 12:36:52
> Could it be that skipping along the line(by anyone) (especially since that line keeps changing) can cause one to view those who do, as getting preferred treatment?
I can certainly see that one could come to that conclusion, but I would argue that it's not a "gimmee". I don't see how one is actually receiving preferential treatment when one is not doing anything actionable. Posting within the lines is posting within the lines regardless of how close to the line one is. If something isn't actionable, where's the preferential treatment?
On the other hand, if someone in the community believes that a post is actionable, yet it is not acted upon because the admin team disagrees, there could be an increased likelihood of a perception of preferential treatment. But if that perception is based on a different or more limited (for whatever reason) understanding of the ins and outs of all the civility guidelines, how accurate is that perception of preferential treatment? Stated another way, if I were viewed as someone who receives preferential treatment from the deputies, and I never ever post anything again that is outside of the civility guidelines, how could the deputies ever "prove" or show that they are not acting preferentially? How could they "disprove" that perception? You can't prove a negative. Meh, it's rather untenable, methinks. Maybe I should just blast out something obvious or do something innocuous though outside of the rules just to give them fodder to "prove". Though I don't know if that would really alter a perception if it's strongly held by anyone. And it's neither my job nor the job of the deputies to challenge possible misperceptions of others, imo.
> I do believe John has made a valid point, some get preferred treatment it is only human nature, but sometimes it is very clear to see.
I agree that it is human nature that it's impossible to always set aside any preconceived notions, experiences with, and/or judgments about others so that one could act completley objectively and consistently in administrating this site. But so often I've seen folks object that someone did not get some kind of admin action, up to being totally outraged about it, when the post was within site guidelines. I see this especially when there is a post that is not uncivil though does seem to be one that others find upsetting, and then if subsequent replies are not within civility rules, those posts get sanctioned when the original post did not. I';ve heard that's "not fair". Well, if the original post is not uncivil, why should it be sanctioned? Why should others' behavior relate to whether or not previous behavior of another is civil or not? I don't get that.
And I'm babbling and going off on tangents again.
> I haven't noticed the preferred treatment taken place anymore, it could be that deputies we do have now are doing a good job being fair.
I agree, but I have to say, "Snort!" as well.
> In fact I would say a great job even with the odd new rules that keep appearing out of nowhere.
rut roh, I wonder if I've missed new rules. Haven't noted any in awhile.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:59:34
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately, posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 12:40:56
> i believe that there are times when "skipping along the line" is used as entertainment for the skipper.I believe you might have some skill in spotting that if it's occurring.
And I do love a good cognitive endeavor especially verbal challenges, though I really wish we had a thesaurus link in the posting window.
gg
Posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 14:15:40
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » Lemonaide, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:53:15
GG,
YOu just crack me up sometimes. :-)
I think one of the points I was trying to make (in deed a bad job of it) it that when the rules change, the line changes. So one skipping along a line might be fine one day, but later on the same degree of skipping can get them in trouble because the line has changed .5 degrees or different deputies see the line just slightly different.
Sometimes our debates were hilariously on the line skipping all over! ;-) I would love to have you in my philosophy classes, you would make it fun.
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 14:17:52
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:27:25
I've always wondered why we don't have male deputies. Now it has been clarified, no bras or PMSing.
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 14:19:36
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:59:34
"I believe you might have some skill in spotting that if it's occurring."
Bowing modestly, thank you, gg.
Posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 14:21:21
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:59:34
I am dying here!!!!!!!! In the dying Babble
Can I give the elegy if babble truly kicks the bucket? Or at least play the trumpet dirge?
Snort* oppsie I meant to snort but I f*rt*d instead. lol
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 14:28:55
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » gardenergirl, posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 14:15:40
> GG,
>
> YOu just crack me up sometimes. :-)
>
> I think one of the points I was trying to make (in deed a bad job of it) it that when the rules change, the line changes. So one skipping along a line might be fine one day, but later on the same degree of skipping can get them in trouble because the line has changed .5 degrees or different deputies see the line just slightly different.Ah, good point. And if one were skipping along at that moment, one might find oneself flat on her (or his) *ss on the wrong side of the line. :^D
> Sometimes our debates were hilariously on the line skipping all over! ;-) I would love to have you in my philosophy classes, you would make it fun.Thanks. I would probably ask a lot of "But what about" or "what if" questions, though. ;)
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 14:35:06
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » gardenergirl, posted by Lemonaide on July 18, 2008, at 14:21:21
> I am dying here!!!!!!!! In the dying Babble
>
> Can I give the elegy if babble truly kicks the bucket? Or at least play the trumpet dirge?Ooh, elegy. Good word. Good song by Howard Jones, too.
> Snort* oppsie I meant to snort but I f*rt*d instead. lol
Yeah, my dog does that too. So do I, unfortunately. It's really bad when we both do it. :)
gg
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 15:34:48
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:27:25
Believe it or not, I used to be quite the windmill tilter. And when I donned my cape and picked up my lance, I might have skirted close to the edge of a line or two to protect the innocent and post on the side of righteousness.
All in my days of yore I fear. I've settled into old age, dropped the lance, and put on the hat and badge.
I suppose it's true that PMS and bad days could contribute to our deputizing. But that's why there is more than one deputy. We can test our judgment with each other. It leads to slower action sometimes, but on balance is, I think, good for the board.
"Anywhoo, I think I get what you mean and where it came from. :)"
It really didn't mean anything deep. Or come from anywhere in particular. You are completely right on several points in your posts. Dr. Bob doesn't like us to judge on intent, but on words. But Dr. Bob's interpretation of those words do on occasion seem to allow for some consideration of intent on his part. Le droit était le roi. (I wonder if I have remembered that right? My apologies if I said something naughty. I meant the right is with the king.) Which is my observation only, and he may well disagree.
None of which is anything you don't know.
Truly, there is no deep intent in any of this, or even a warning. Perhaps some bad timing on my part for reflecting is all. I hope my reflections weren't hurtful to you.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on July 18, 2008, at 15:37:39
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 15:34:48
Is babble dying due to deputy involvement or due to bob's disengagement?
-Ll
Posted by fayeroe on July 18, 2008, at 15:45:48
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » fayeroe, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 13:59:34
And I do love a good cognitive endeavor especially verbal challenges, though I really wish we had a thesaurus link in the posting window.
I say be careful what you wish for.
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 15:48:22
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 18, 2008, at 15:37:39
I'm feeling kind of hurt. I volunteered for this to help babble, not to kill it. And my intentions on this thread were also good. Whatever the actual outcome.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 15:48:31
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 15:34:48
> Believe it or not, I used to be quite the windmill tilter. And when I donned my cape and picked up my lance, I might have skirted close to the edge of a line or two to protect the innocent and post on the side of righteousness.
Ah, windmill tilting....
> I suppose it's true that PMS and bad days could contribute to our deputizing.
Totally kidding about all of those things I listed. Totally kidding. Just a monkey brain let loose for a bit to associate.
> I hope my reflections weren't hurtful to you.
Heavens, no, not at all. I have a great deal of trust in our relationship and communication. :)
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 15:52:54
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying?, posted by llurpsienoodle on July 18, 2008, at 15:37:39
I'm not sure that Babble has ever completely recovered from the hacking incident. It seemed there was a noticeable slow down in posting afterward, understandably. And that never seemed to pick back up to pre-hacking levels, though I've not looked at stats to test my perception.
gg
Posted by Amigan on July 18, 2008, at 16:00:44
In reply to Re: Is Babble Dying? Definately » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 18, 2008, at 12:19:27
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