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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 16, 2020, at 12:59:27
Nardil was extremely hardcore in its effect and sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off if I had never tried. But it doesn't help. Maybe if I hadn't tried I would have zero insight into my dysfunctional ways, just like my family. No inkling. I had kind of an epiphanyish experience. It could be that it needed to happen. I should have stayed off after they took me off, but I was on it about 4-5 times. I just wanted to feel like that one day again. It often but not always ended in (verbal) rage and paranoia. I haven't been on Nardil for 7 years now.
I am not the same person as I was before. Or maybe I am, but with much more insight into who I am and why. More conscientious, too.
It is probably fate. It was a cry for help and I guess, in a way, I got it. Just not how I expected.
I reckon that this is not the effect that it usually has on people. It is both a blessing and a curse.
These are extremely powerful drugs! Be careful with them!
Posted by SLS on June 17, 2020, at 8:37:28
In reply to My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 16, 2020, at 12:59:27
A great many people experience transient euphoria when they first start taking Nardil. It often settles down and one must then wait for a more balanced and stable response to emerge. A lot of people keep raising the dosage in an effort to recapture the euphoric effect. They never can. Don't be fooled.
What is the highest dosage of Nardil that you took, and for how long were you at that dosage before you decided to discontinue it?
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 17, 2020, at 8:50:54
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 17, 2020, at 8:37:28
The first time at 45mg, then I was at 90mg. At the end I was at 45mg and it still destabilized me. I was on it for many months.
> A great many people experience transient euphoria when they first start taking Nardil. It often settles down and one must then wait for a more balanced and stable response to emerge. A lot of people keep raising the dosage in an effort to recapture the euphoric effect. They never can. Don't be fooled.
>
> What is the highest dosage of Nardil that you took, and for how long were you at that dosage before you decided to discontinue it?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 18, 2020, at 2:41:58
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 17, 2020, at 8:50:54
It might very well be that I am mentally ill because of my Nardil trials. I had some problems, but nothing near as severe as during and after Nardil. Sigh. The brain doesn't forget how to go crazy. I have lost friends, made a fool of myself. But then on the other hand, some positives came out of it, too.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 18, 2020, at 2:58:05
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 18, 2020, at 2:41:58
I had the idea that this must be how you feel when you don't have depression. I didn't recognize the psychosis.
Posted by SLS on June 19, 2020, at 8:01:38
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 18, 2020, at 2:41:58
> It might very well be that I am mentally ill because of my Nardil trials. I had some problems, but nothing near as severe as during and after Nardil. Sigh. The brain doesn't forget how to go crazy. I have lost friends, made a fool of myself.
I can totally relate. I was never so embarassed by depression as I was by a severe psychotic mania. This happened to me in 1990 as the result of Nardil treatment. It is critical in my case that I mention that the psychotic mania didn't emerge until *after* I discontinued Nardil completely. I had tapered the dosage, so I can't assign the cause to an abrupt change.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 19, 2020, at 11:32:21
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 19, 2020, at 8:01:38
Didn't you say you have lost your wife due to psychotic mania? How were you doing before you have taken meds?
Posted by undopaminergic on June 19, 2020, at 12:17:47
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on June 19, 2020, at 8:01:38
> > It might very well be that I am mentally ill because of my Nardil trials. I had some problems, but nothing near as severe as during and after Nardil. Sigh. The brain doesn't forget how to go crazy. I have lost friends, made a fool of myself.
>
> I can totally relate. I was never so embarassed by depression as I was by a severe psychotic mania.
>I can relate too. I made a fool of myself due to erotomanic delusions. It wasn't due to Nardil though, but impulsive "manic" thinking played a crucial role.
There is just such a loss of critical thinking when you're manic (or otherwise pre-psychotic). Memantine emulates this kind of mania splendidly. Example: a couple of YouTube videos about a tennis player + an impulsive thought or two = starting to believe in karma; it made such intuitive sense at the moment, that there was no arguing about it.
On another note, karma is as useful an explanation as any as to why the supposedly best years of my life have gone to waste due to mental illness.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 19, 2020, at 20:12:39
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on June 19, 2020, at 12:17:47
So you thought you were Brad Pitt?
> I can relate too. I made a fool of myself due to erotomanic delusions. It wasn't due to Nardil though, but impulsive "manic" thinking played a crucial role.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 5:12:15
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 19, 2020, at 20:12:39
No, I thought a certain neuroscientist was in love me. Had I been a more "normal" person, I suppose it would have been a rock- or movie-star.
> So you thought you were Brad Pitt?
>
> > I can relate too. I made a fool of myself due to erotomanic delusions. It wasn't due to Nardil though, but impulsive "manic" thinking played a crucial role.
>
>
>-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 20, 2020, at 6:58:55
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 5:12:15
Interesting. How did you figure? A few years ago there was a woman in the dorm (at the time). I think she had something similar. It was a mild form of stalking
Posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 10:19:04
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 20, 2020, at 6:58:55
> Interesting. How did you figure?
How I figured she was in love with me? Well, that is a coincidence of several things, including owls. You wouldn't understand unless, possibly, if I told you the whole story including the background.
> A few years ago there was a woman in the dorm (at the time). I think she had something similar. It was a mild form of stalking
>I sent her a series of delusional love letters in e-mail. I got only an out-of-office-auto-response back, but at some point she told the police (in her country) I had threatened her. The police (in my country) then leaked this accusation, including to my parents and some of the hospital staff, which was the most embarrassing part of it.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:12:22
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 20, 2020, at 10:19:04
Yeah, believe me, I am embarassed by my delusions, too. Did the meds help you think more clearly? Or did you get over it without meds? For me, discontinuing Nardil helped a lot. The antipsychotics even more.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:15:26
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:12:22
My theory is that I would not need APs had I not been on Nardil so many times. My first diagnosis in Hospital was Phenelzine induced Psychosis.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 4:33:51
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:15:26
The jury is still out wether they were delusions. It's a story about abuse that may actually have happened. Perpetrators can repress their memories of the perpetration. It's hard to say. I come from a very disturbed family.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 4:33:51
Certain is that there was emotional and physical abuse going on. Emotional abuse didn't really ever stop. Now I am establishing firm boundaries that will hopefully do the trick.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:26:33
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
Basically not talking to my mother much anymore. She is like insane-insane. She doesn't know she is. In her mind, everyone else is. Two weeks ago she told me to go to a hospital. I'm doing better than her!
Posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:16:16
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 0:12:22
> Yeah, believe me, I am embarassed by my delusions, too. Did the meds help you think more clearly?
>Not as far as I could tell. In fact, they (at least the quetiapine) dulled me through their anti-histamine effects.
> Or did you get over it without meds? For me, discontinuing Nardil helped a lot. The antipsychotics even more.
>For me, the passage of time, perhaps through using the time for contemplation and reasoning, seems to resolve delusions, slowly. I think (some) anti-psychotics can help speed up the process, through stimulating objective thinking, which may in turn promote certain aspects of critical thinking. When I say "some", I mean clozapine and especially trimipramine; incidentally, I've read they have similar receptor binding profiles. Note that this is just my experience, as it looks from my perspective; it may well be clozapine that does the main part and the addition of trimipramine amounts to reaching a "critical mass" of antipsychotic action.
Trimipramine is otherwise less effective as an antipsychotic than perazine according to a German study. See:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12734763/
(Full article available through https://sci-hub.se/ )-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:20:45
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 5:06:41
> Certain is that there was emotional and physical abuse going on. Emotional abuse didn't really ever stop. Now I am establishing firm boundaries that will hopefully do the trick.
>Could it be that the abuse gave you a borderline-psychotic disorder (not necessarily the same thing as borderline personality disorder), and the Nardil pushed you over the border into manifest psychosis?
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by undopaminergic on June 21, 2020, at 9:20:45
Yeah could be. But maybe it would never have surfaced without the trigger.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 10:00:30
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
You mean being prone to psychosis?
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:01:15
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 9:59:51
There must be a reason why I react to MAOI this way and 98% of others dont. But you usually dont know in advance!
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:05:16
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:01:15
I also wonder if this one day was a spiritual experience or part of psychosis or both.
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 1:06:54
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 21, 2020, at 10:00:30
> You mean being prone to psychosis?
Yes, being unusually sensitive/vulnerable to it. I haven't heard of anyone else who got psychotic from Nardil. I haven't tried it myself.
-undopaminergic
Posted by undopaminergic on June 22, 2020, at 1:09:55
In reply to Re: My experience with Nardil, posted by Lamdage22 on June 22, 2020, at 0:05:16
> I also wonder if this one day was a spiritual experience or part of psychosis or both.
>I've had several spiritual experiences after my first psychosis. In other words, there may be good things about a psychosis. Indeed, few things are purely good or bad.
-undopaminergic
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