![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:35:35
In reply to To Ed_Uk - my cat had a tick last weekend, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:17:48
>how can I get a test for Toxoplasma?
Hi J.
Toxoplasmosis is a very common infection in Europe, especially in people who have cats. A large proportion of cats have it, and it comes out in the cat poo.
Usually, toxoplasmosis does not cause any symptoms in humans, unless they have a weak immune system or are pregnant. Sometimes, it cases symptoms like the flu.
Some people think there is a link between toxoplasma and the development of psychosis. This is an area of current research.
It is quite likely that you have been infected at some point because it's so common, but that doesn't mean it is the cause of any of your problems. It is just one possibility.
Doctors usually only test for toxoplasmosis in people with immune system suppression (eg. Advanced HIV infection). Occasionally, pregnant women are tested if they are at risk. The test uses a small blood sample to test for two different types of antibodies.
You could certainly ask your doctor about it, especially as you've had many cats, but I'm not sure what they'd say.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:38:59
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 9:00:29
>Should i ask for doxycycline then even if i tested negative for lymes i know minocycline 50 mg works but i do not tolerate it anymore
Minocycline is an interesting antibiotic because there is some evidence that it can be helpful in schizophrenia, usually in combination with antipsychotics. This may or may not be related to its antimicrobial effects. Minocycline is believed to have an anti-inflammatory action.
Unlike minocycline, doxycycline hasn't been studied in people with schizophrenia, although it is a closely related drug.
When you tried minocycline before, where did you get it from?
Posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:40:37
In reply to Re: To Ed_Uk - my cat had a tick last weekend, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:35:35
This is getting stranger and stranger ive had many cats, could this be really be Ed?
It is possible...
Posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:42:26
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:38:59
My psychiatrist prescribed it to me and it worked i only took 3 doses got a bad reaction but the cure for psychosis lasted 2 weeks i felt normaly for 2 weeks witouth even taking it daily!
Posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:48:59
In reply to To Ed_Uk Minocycline, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:42:26
All paranoid beliefs, delusion, hallucinations, depression, traumas was eliminated from my CNS with only taking 3 doses of minocycline 50 mg.
In other words i was cured.
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2018, at 14:30:46
In reply to To Ed_Uk Minocycline, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:42:26
> My psychiatrist prescribed it to me and it worked i only took 3 doses got a bad reaction but the cure for psychosis lasted 2 weeks i felt normaly for 2 weeks witouth even taking it daily!
That's interesting.
Unlike doxycycline, minocycline has robust anti-inflammatory effects in the brain. I am guessing that's why it helped me with bipolar depression. I had to discontinue it after two years, though. I began to show dark spots on my feet and shins (hyperpigmentation). Some mental illnesses are associated with brain inflammation, including depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia. I am not saying that minocycline works by reducing brain inflammation, but it is a possibility.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2018, at 15:08:28
In reply to Re: To Ed_Uk Minocycline, posted by SLS on March 22, 2018, at 14:30:46
> > My psychiatrist prescribed it to me and it worked i only took 3 doses got a bad reaction but the cure for psychosis lasted 2 weeks i felt normaly for 2 weeks witouth even taking it daily!
>
> That's interesting.
>
> Unlike doxycycline, minocycline has robust anti-inflammatory effects in the brain. I am guessing that's why it helped me with bipolar depression. I had to discontinue it after two years, though. I began to show dark spots on my feet and shins (hyperpigmentation). Some mental illnesses are associated with brain inflammation, including depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia. I am not saying that minocycline works by reducing brain inflammation, but it is a possibility.Minocycline also reduces or modulates glutamate activity. This might be even or important for treating schizophrenia.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 16:37:08
In reply to To Ed_Uk Minocycline, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 12:42:26
>My psychiatrist prescribed it to me and it worked
Same one you see now? I suppose you could ask about doxycycline, since it's related.
Posted by SLS on March 23, 2018, at 0:04:27
In reply to Re: To Ed_Uk Minocycline » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 16:37:08
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069141/
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 6:41:17
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry, posted by Jeroen on March 22, 2018, at 9:00:29
Jereon with your limited environment where you don't have a lot of control over what you can get access to, in terms of meds or herbs, there may be another approach that makes more sense.
Where you are, you can modify your diet to be psych-friendly.
1. eliminate anything made of wheat - that diet is called gluten-free. Gluten is a protein molecule in wheat that causes 50% of the population to have symptoms of some kind - gastrointestinal, brain fog, tiredness and bad mood. I have seen 4 people literally cured of complicated issues simply by removing gluten from their daily habits of eating. Do gluten free for a month. Spaghetti, bread, cereals - these are all available in gluten-free forms so ask if you can get some. If you can't then just don't eat them. For example you would eat the sauce and the meat and the salad of a spaghetti dinner but not the spaghetti noodles. Pour the spaghetti sauce over broccoli or something else. Get creative. Gluten is HUGE in psychiatry and most people don't know that.2.Eat as healthy as you possibly can - mostly protein and plants with color - each plate should have as much variety of color on it as possible.
3.Avoid as much sugar and starch as you possibly can. These are generally not psych-friendly.
4.Welcome good fats - butter is good, avacados, nuts - fats are very important for the brain. Olive oil! Coconut oil! These are awesome oils to put in your diet every day. Coconut oil in higher doses is an antibiotic.
5.Movement. Even when it sucks and you feel terrible, get in some exercise. Work up a sweat. If you can walk somewhere, walk a mile or two every day.
6.Your primary antibiotics are in the kitchen. Use as much cinnamon as you possibly can in your daily foods. Cayenne pepper also. As much as you can. Other herbs to consume a lot of include rosemary and thyme. But the king of them all, the one that is actually more effective than many prescription antibiotics, is raw garlic. If you have maybe 2 or 3 days per week that you are fairly alone and not in crowds of people, then you can afford to have the wreaking smell of garlic. It is an amazing food for psychiatry and for lyme. Some lyme books suggest garlic as a first line med!
Anyway, you want to eat a raw clove of garlic toward the end of a meal, not at the beginning of the meal. Eat as much as you can tolerate. You will stink. The healing is in the stink so there is no way to avoid that. The odorless garlic supplements are worthless.
There are many clinical scientific studies demonstrating the potent antimicrobial action of raw garlic - it is very effective against a wide range of gram-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, viruses, yeast, mold and fungus, as well as parasites and amoebas.
My first treatment was actually just raw garlic. I ate a clove with lunch and dinner. I stunk bad. But 4 days in I felt definitely way better than I had in a long time. The only reason I stopped was because I had a job as a manager at a store and the stink was just not acceptable in that environment. But it was amazing.
Your best antibiotic may be raw garlic, Cooking destroys the medical qualities of it. It's still great for the heart, no matter what, but as an antibiotic is has to be raw.
I'm just estimating and guessing, guided by experience, that with the above tactics you could see your overall condition improve noticeably. For example, rate yourself on a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being the worst. If, for example, you rated yourself a 7, then after six months of changing things above, you could be in the 4 to 5 area, maybe even lower.
I think you would do well to get a prescription for 200mg Diflucan for 30 days. Do that instead of Doxy or Mino. It would take some t time and space to explain why. I just think there is good potential there for you.
The negative test means nothing. You can flip a coin and be more accurate. Lousy tests. They are the reason I became a psychiatric basket case.. There is nothing worse than a doctor saying, "I am happy to inform you that according to this test you do not have Lyme disease" - despite you do have symptoms and you did have exposure to ticks. . The kiss of death when a doctor says that.
> Should i ask for doxycycline then even if i tested negative for lymes i know minocycline 50 mg works but i do not tolerate it anymore i get dangerous life treathening herx on it, that you would describe insanity, im so sad bleauberry.
Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 7:11:04
In reply to Re: bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:05:43
> >But you already know what is going on.
>
> Except that we don't actually know.We do actually know. Jereon has had a positive test in the past, did not do successful treatment for it, and has consistent symptoms. He also responded in consistent manner to attempted treatment. We DO know. The complexity you mention is true but is also a common thing that gets in the way of true healing - armchair quarterbacking doesn't produce great results usually.
>
> >The test won't tell you anything you don't already know.
>
> It shifts the probability away from Lyme, and hence towards something else. Lyme isn't as common in these parts of Europe as is it in the US.There is absolutely NO WAY of knowing that. I disagree with it. Lyme is epidemic everywhere ticks and mice exist. Estimates are that for every 1 person correctly diagnosed, there are 9 who got a wrong diagnosis of depression, anxiety, fibromyalgia, or chronic fatigues syndrome.
>J believed he might have had an exposure many years ago. It seems improbable that antibodies would not have been produced by now, if it was still present.
This demonstrates a common lack of knowledge of the lyme, intricate mechanisms of the infection syndromes, and the primary difficulty in diagnosing lyme with blood tests - the organisms are genius, thousands of genes, thousands of years - the first thing that happens upon puncturing the skin is they inject an enzyme that confuses the immune system - it turns off the antibody mechanism - the reason antibody tests are generally unreliable in lyme. The best way to make a test accurate is to take an antibiotic for 2 weeks, then stop, then test. At that point, if the bacteria exist, some of them have died - their body parts and debris NOW cause antibodies that can be detected. The immune system was confused and couldn't do that. Meds could. But without the antibiotic, nope, not likely to have any antibodies. That is how lyme is so freaking sly.
>Also, physical symptoms would be expected.
Jeroen does. If you check the list of symptoms for DSM depression, most of them are the symptoms as Lyme also...think about that....>
> In terms of latent infection, other agents such as Toxoplasma are far more common in Europe. Although usually asymptomatic, possible links between Toxoplasma and mental health are interesting and worthy of further investigation.Pathogenic microbial of all kinds are very suspect in my world of being direct contributors to psychiatric presentations. That is why I subscribe to a blanket shotgun approach of antimicrobial, antitoxin and anti inflammation. A tick can carry more than half a dozen different bacteria, parasites and virus. all of them make you sick, not just one of them. They also weaken the immune system so that otherwise good bugs now become pathogenic. The symptoms are almost universally psychiatric, in addition to clusters of other symptoms.
>
> Interestingly, doxycycline is one of the antibiotics with anti-toxoplasma activity. Although chronic latent infection is very hard to eradicate.This is where some of the herbs come in to play. They offer some mechanisms that meds just do not. Japaneses Knotweed for example is a king. This is also why treatment often includes 3 antibiotics at a time, sometimes up to 6, because the bacteria can shift from one form to another - cystic for example - biofilm for example - wide spectrum coverage is required. We have cell wall bacteria. We have cell wall deficient bacteria. Some live inside our red blood cells with no shape, basically just blobs. There is no way to accurately pinpoint what is going on because available testing is so inadequate.
>
> >As you know, the Herxing can be vicious and terrifying.I have experienced what you described and it is indeed scary. It is a very common feature of Herxing.
>
> I think it's important to be cautious RE assumptions that we have experienced what others have experienced, especially when it's not clear what they have experienced.Yeah me too. I feel that way. To me though it is pretty clear. If you had been on my journey, it would likely be clear to you too. The things I have learned are way different than the things you have learned. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. Maybe it's just instinct. Don't know. In any case, there isn't much mystery if you ask me.
>
> Although the term Herxheimer reaction is now used by some people to describe almost anything that happens after taking an antibiotic, I think this is confusing. I don't think it's fair to assume that panic symptoms in the absence of typical physical symptoms such as fever represent a Herxheimer reaction (endotoxin release syndrome).This is totally false. The entire paragraph is false. As an example, one patient went to a doctor complaining of nausea. Months later, no progress. No diagnosis. Nobody could figure it out. The guy had no other symptoms. Through questioning in his history it became evident that he did have a tick bite a year ago and never had any trouble from it. On a suspicion they treated him with an antibiotic. He Herxed like hell and then when he came out of it he was totally cured. There are literally millions of stories similar to that pattern. Mine included.
>
>
> Studies have reported that individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia, compared to controls, have a higher prevalence of antibodies to Toxoplasma. Although this is an association rather than proof, I do think it's very interesting, especially since Toxoplasma is so prevalent in cats here.This is, in my opinion, where American medical science goes off the rails and does a disservice to the patient. Notice how everybody seems to rely on "studies". As if these studies were somehow miracles or bibles. They aren't. They give us little piecers of puzzles. A better science, in opinion, is to adopt some of the Eastern medicinal approach to employing substances that work for specific symptoms regardless of whether we know how they work or what studies have been done. in other words, if it works, use it. We don't do that in America. It's almost as if we really don't care if something works or not, but we sure as heck have to know how it works, every detail of its mechanisms, armchair quarterbacking on steroids. That generally has not gotten a lot of psych patients into a better place. This site has ample proof of that anecdotal claim.
Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 7:17:02
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:38:59
Mino does have some specialty coverage that Doxy doesn't. I herxed a lot worse on Mino than Doxy. I could literally turn myself into a schizophrenic suicidal basket case if I wasn't careful.
It is my hypothesis that many suicides are actually that - a massive Herxheimer, either from medicine or from the immune system suddenly kicking in, and sometimes just the phase of the moon. I have literally gone from feeling good, to feeling electrified suicidal, to feeling good again, all within one week - and it was purely from killing antimicrobials. That is why I postulate that many people here at this board are actually suffering from a chronic infection of some kind and they are stuck in limbo with it. The immune system and the infection are in a stand-off, and the daily death and debris caused by the immune system doing its job is what causes the psych symptoms and every other symptom.
> >Should i ask for doxycycline then even if i tested negative for lymes i know minocycline 50 mg works but i do not tolerate it anymore
>
> Minocycline is an interesting antibiotic because there is some evidence that it can be helpful in schizophrenia, usually in combination with antipsychotics. This may or may not be related to its antimicrobial effects. Minocycline is believed to have an anti-inflammatory action.
>
> Unlike minocycline, doxycycline hasn't been studied in people with schizophrenia, although it is a closely related drug.
>
> When you tried minocycline before, where did you get it from?
>
>
Posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 7:19:27
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 22, 2018, at 12:38:59
Doxy is also an excellent anti-inflammatory. It was the first thing that actually ended my headaches. Advil and Tylenol were partially helpful but not curative. Doxy was totally helpful and curative. Headaches gone. It was like a miracle. No other med did that for me.
> >Should i ask for doxycycline then even if i tested negative for lymes i know minocycline 50 mg works but i do not tolerate it anymore
>
> Minocycline is an interesting antibiotic because there is some evidence that it can be helpful in schizophrenia, usually in combination with antipsychotics. This may or may not be related to its antimicrobial effects. Minocycline is believed to have an anti-inflammatory action.
>
> Unlike minocycline, doxycycline hasn't been studied in people with schizophrenia, although it is a closely related drug.
>
> When you tried minocycline before, where did you get it from?
>
>
Posted by Jeroen on March 23, 2018, at 7:40:06
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry » Jeroen, posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 6:41:17
200mg Diflucan for 30 days
what kind of med is this? is it like nizoral or targeted for infections and lyme ?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 15:19:15
In reply to Re: bleauberry, posted by bleauberry on March 23, 2018, at 7:11:04
Hi,
I think it's great that you want to help people, but while you are claiming a holistic approach, you actually seem to be attributing almost everything to microorganisms - which is not holistic.
I do understand that Lyme may be under-diagnosed in Europe, but that does not mean we should start attributing everything to that particular cause.
>We do actually know......consistent symptoms.
No, we don't know Blue. To say otherwise is quite presumptuous. It is not fair to imply good knowledge of someone else's symptoms and medical history due to reading some posts online - none of us here have that degree of information.
I also don't think it's sensible to use a prior positive antibody test as evidence, after the claims you've made about the test. With false positives and negatives being possible.
>He also responded in consistent manner to attempted treatment.
Including, to an ear drop with limited penetration beyond the external ear canal. Which is not suggestive of Herxheimer.
>Jeroen does. If you check the list of symptoms for DSM depression, most of them are the symptoms as Lyme also...think about that....
Some of them are symptoms of multiple forms of chronic disease, with absolutely no specificity for Lyme at all.
>There is no way to accurately pinpoint what is going on because available testing is so inadequate.
Very true. Which is why I say, we actually don't know that an infection is present.
>If you had been on my journey, it would likely be clear to you too.
Yes, but it's not possible to apply your own personal journey to other people you've met online, based on limited information.
>This is totally false. The entire paragraph is false.
I understand that you have an exceptionally broad definition of what constitutes a Herxheimer reaction - markedly different to the original definition. I can see the possibilities... but I would not go so far. Many antibiotics cause a wide range of symptoms as standard side effects.
>He Herxed like hell and then when he came out of it he was totally cured.
I'd interpret that report as 'he had very unpleasant symptoms after taking an antibiotic'. Calling everything a Herxheimer reaction is a push, because you don't know that it was anything to do with Herxheimer. Could have been side effects. Secondly, most antibiotics used in Lyme are very broad spectrum and some have multiple unrelated non-antibiotic activities as well. So what you're saying is that someone no longer had nausea after taking an antibiotic. That is good news, but it certainly doesn't prove it was Lyme disease. Could have been literally anything.
Personally, as an example.... I don't tolerate doxycycline well. It is a well known gastric irritant and it does nauseate me. Headache is also a common side effect. On the other hand, I tolerate minocycline and amoxicillin extremely well. I do not believe that my symptoms on doxycyline represent Herxeimer, but no doubt some people online would jump to that conclusion.
I could go onto a Lyme message board now and say.... I've taken doxycycline for XYZ, I feel awful, really sick and have a headache.... and have people tell me I was 'Herxing'. But that isn't reasonable. A lot more information is needed before symptoms can be attributed to Herxheimer reaction.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 15:24:45
In reply to Re: To Ed_Uk Minocycline, posted by SLS on March 23, 2018, at 0:04:27
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4069141/
>
>
> - ScottThank you Scott.
Minocycline is a really interesting antibiotic, with uses ranging from chronic acne to periodontal disease to (occasionally) rheumatoid arthritis.
When someone with a chronic disease responds to a broad spectrum drug like mino, I think it's really difficult to say why....
Was it due to the removal of bacteria or other organisms?
Was it due to an anti-inflammatory effect which is only partially understood?
Was it due to something else?I wouldn't like to presume to have the answers, but it's clear that mino has quite a range of possible uses and it's great to hear of benefit.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 15:47:53
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry - 200mg Diflucan for 30 days, posted by Jeroen on March 23, 2018, at 7:40:06
> 200mg Diflucan for 30 days
>
> what kind of med is this? is it like nizoral or targeted for infections and lyme ?Hi J,
Diflucan is a brand name for fluconzole.
Fluconazole is an anti-fungal drug which is widely used to treat infections caused by microscopic fungi and yeasts.
The most common use is to treat candidiasis (thrush) of the vagina, penis, skin and mouth/throat. This type of infection is especially common in diabetics, and in people who have taken certain antibiotics recently. Fluconazole is also used to treat serious fungal infections in people with a weak immune system eg. while having chemotherapy for cancer.
>is it like nizoral or targeted for infections and lyme ?
These days, Nizoral is mainly used as a cream for fungal skin infections (which is very safe). For more widespread and severe fungal infections, fluconazole capsules are much safer than ketoconazole (Nizoral) tablets. As a result, ketoconazole tablets are no longer widely used to treat fungal infections.
>Lyme
Fluconazole is not a standard treatment for Lyme disease, no. But... A trial in 2004 showed benefit in eleven patients with Lyme affecting the nervous system. As a result, some doctors have used fluconazole in Lyme patients who have not responded to antibiotics.
Also, since certain antibiotics can bring on thrush, particularly in women (vaginal thrush), a lot of people with Lyme may occasionally take fluconazole to treat this.
....................Here is an example of candidiasis which might be treated with fluconazole capsules if mouth gels didn't work.
Posted by Jeroen on March 23, 2018, at 15:54:07
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry - 200mg Diflucan for 30 days » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 15:47:53
thanks friends for helping me out
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 16:45:55
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry and Ed_Uk, posted by Jeroen on March 23, 2018, at 15:54:07
> thanks friends for helping me out
You're welcome. Glad it was a help.
When do you next see your doctor? And does he have any treatment ideas for you?
Posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:36:05
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry and Ed_Uk » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 16:45:55
This friday, going to ask doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut, im sooooo tired of being depressed
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 25, 2018, at 14:08:42
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry and Ed_Uk, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:36:05
>This friday, going to ask doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut, im sooooo tired of being depressed
Hello J,
Are you seeing your psychiatrist on Friday?
I think you should ask about:
1. What you can do about your depression. You might be helped by an antidepressant.
2. The side effects of nebivolol. You could ask for advice about possibly switching to a different beta blocker for your sinus tachycardia. Atenolol 25mg is an example which doesn't usually cause dizziness.
3. I know you're interested in doxycycline so you will ask about this.
>a pro biotic to protect my gut,
Doxycyline causes nausea/sickness very often. This is because it irritates the stomach at high concentrations. To reduce this, doxycycline is usually taken with a meal. This can make a lot of difference and is very helpful.
Doxycycline probably doesn't upset the intestinal balance as much as some other antibiotics, but you can still take a probiotic such as 'acidophilus' if you like. A lot of people buy a capsule or probiotic yoghurt to take with antibiotics, but you don't have to.
Posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 6:58:10
In reply to Re: bleauberry » bleauberry, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 23, 2018, at 15:19:15
Sometimes people have to agree to disagree and call it good. Someone who wants to be an optimist instead of a pessimist, someone who wants to ask questions and learn new stuff instead of rejecting it at face value, those kinds of people can choose from the conversation what they think might apply to them or not.
Not meaning to be critical myself, it sort of might be mentioned that the same people who strongly disagreed with me 5 years ago, 10 years ago, never saw enduring improvement or remission, and still resist the lessons of success stories.
> Hi,
>
> I think it's great that you want to help people, but while you are claiming a holistic approach, you actually seem to be attributing almost everything to microorganisms - which is not holistic.
>
> I do understand that Lyme may be under-diagnosed in Europe, but that does not mean we should start attributing everything to that particular cause.
>
> >We do actually know......consistent symptoms.
>
> No, we don't know Blue. To say otherwise is quite presumptuous. It is not fair to imply good knowledge of someone else's symptoms and medical history due to reading some posts online - none of us here have that degree of information.
>
> I also don't think it's sensible to use a prior positive antibody test as evidence, after the claims you've made about the test. With false positives and negatives being possible.
>
> >He also responded in consistent manner to attempted treatment.
>
> Including, to an ear drop with limited penetration beyond the external ear canal. Which is not suggestive of Herxheimer.
>
> >Jeroen does. If you check the list of symptoms for DSM depression, most of them are the symptoms as Lyme also...think about that....
>
> Some of them are symptoms of multiple forms of chronic disease, with absolutely no specificity for Lyme at all.
>
> >There is no way to accurately pinpoint what is going on because available testing is so inadequate.
>
> Very true. Which is why I say, we actually don't know that an infection is present.
>
> >If you had been on my journey, it would likely be clear to you too.
>
> Yes, but it's not possible to apply your own personal journey to other people you've met online, based on limited information.
>
> >This is totally false. The entire paragraph is false.
>
> I understand that you have an exceptionally broad definition of what constitutes a Herxheimer reaction - markedly different to the original definition. I can see the possibilities... but I would not go so far. Many antibiotics cause a wide range of symptoms as standard side effects.
>
> >He Herxed like hell and then when he came out of it he was totally cured.
>
> I'd interpret that report as 'he had very unpleasant symptoms after taking an antibiotic'. Calling everything a Herxheimer reaction is a push, because you don't know that it was anything to do with Herxheimer. Could have been side effects. Secondly, most antibiotics used in Lyme are very broad spectrum and some have multiple unrelated non-antibiotic activities as well. So what you're saying is that someone no longer had nausea after taking an antibiotic. That is good news, but it certainly doesn't prove it was Lyme disease. Could have been literally anything.
>
> Personally, as an example.... I don't tolerate doxycycline well. It is a well known gastric irritant and it does nauseate me. Headache is also a common side effect. On the other hand, I tolerate minocycline and amoxicillin extremely well. I do not believe that my symptoms on doxycyline represent Herxeimer, but no doubt some people online would jump to that conclusion.
>
> I could go onto a Lyme message board now and say.... I've taken doxycycline for XYZ, I feel awful, really sick and have a headache.... and have people tell me I was 'Herxing'. But that isn't reasonable. A lot more information is needed before symptoms can be attributed to Herxheimer reaction.
>
Posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 7:04:01
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry and Ed_Uk, posted by Jeroen on March 25, 2018, at 13:36:05
> This friday, going to ask doxycycline and a pro biotic to protect my gut, im sooooo tired of being depressed
Jereon just keep in mind that getting worse before getting better is commonly what happens because of die-off reactions. It's not 'if' your depression gets worse, it's 'when' it gets worse, you have to be mentally prepared for that and remind yourself what is happening. You have to manage that. You do that by skipping 1-3 days of meds, or by lowering your dose.
Just know that taking Doxy by itself is not likely to do what you want. It can indeed get you out of depression. I have no doubt about that. But not by itself. Raw garlic. And be prepared for periods of worsening - usually a week out of every month is unusually bad - the pattern follows the moon for many patients. And keep your eye on longterm gains not short term. Think in terms of 2019 not 2018.
You can do it. I just don't want to see you expecting too much too soon. It's a war not a battle.
Posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2018, at 7:13:22
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry and Ed_Uk, posted by bleauberry on March 30, 2018, at 7:04:01
i am very scared of very intense insanity herx heimer reaction before being well bleauberry
There is a high propability i will get, hallucinations all day, severe pannick attacks, minocycline first exposure (the first time i took it only worsened my depression) second time also, but the 3rd and 4th time i got severe reaction to it before i got cured
please advice
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2018, at 8:55:36
In reply to Re: To Bleauberry about herx heimer reaction, posted by Jeroen on March 30, 2018, at 7:13:22
Jeroen the test was negative second time you don't need the doxycyclline. Phillipa
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