![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 83 to 107 of 125. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
In reply to I'm sorry, posted by Hello321 on April 19, 2016, at 7:34:49
Well, Hello321, you have some points. I still dont like that you are being judgmental. But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us. Most people dont want to hear it, as you sure noticed.
If they dont want to hear it, then they are not ready for it. People try to mission me regarding smoking regular cigarettes. But i dont try to mission them to vape. It is not my health and not my job. If they were ready to hear it, id recommend it. But if not, than thats just a sad fact of life.
I dont think exercise and nutrition is a cureall but it can be an important component to a good life. But equally important is having a good social support system.
Your message came through to me, im still not ready to do it. For one, i take Antipsychotics which make healthy nutrition almost impossible. I went to the gym but i just couldnt do exercise for the life of it! I tried but i cant right now.
You need to accept that your remarks dont work for most people here. Doesnt mean you have to judge us. Its kind of condescending.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:54:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
And Lou,
i dont know what to tell you. If youd put your energy into a job, you would be a millionaire by now.
Is this really how you want to spend your life?
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 11:45:49
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
> Well, Hello321, you have some points. I still dont like that you are being judgmental. But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us. Most people dont want to hear it, as you sure noticed.
>
> If they dont want to hear it, then they are not ready for it. People try to mission me regarding smoking regular cigarettes. But i dont try to mission them to vape. It is not my health and not my job. If they were ready to hear it, id recommend it. But if not, than thats just a sad fact of life.
>
> I dont think exercise and nutrition is a cureall but it can be an important component to a good life. But equally important is having a good social support system.
>
> Your message came through to me, im still not ready to do it. For one, i take Antipsychotics which make healthy nutrition almost impossible. I went to the gym but i just couldnt do exercise for the life of it! I tried but i cant right now.
>
> You need to accept that your remarks dont work for most people here. Doesnt mean you have to judge us. Its kind of condescending.
>
>
>Oh, okay.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 11:47:22
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:54:52
> And Lou,
>
> i dont know what to tell you. If youd put your energy into a job, you would be a millionaire by now.
>
> Is this really how you want to spend your life?
>
> Lamdage22,
The energy that I have comes from above as the Spirit of Truth leads me here to try to free the captives of the lies that are seriously misleading readers here that could cause addiction, life-ruining conditions and death.
I have been given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and to lead the lost sheep to receive that Spirit. For that Spirit changes the heart to a new heart that gives peace and joy so that you can sing a new song and return to the green fields that you used to know. And there is a reward from above that I could also reveal here.
And in the encounter, the Rider said to me, "Lay not up for yourself treasures upon earth, where moth and rust will corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourself treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust will corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Lou
Posted by TriedEveryMedication on April 21, 2016, at 12:21:49
In reply to what to do about Lou ....Dr . Bob?, posted by zonked on April 16, 2016, at 1:58:41
> Wowzers. Um, is it possible to place someone on an involuntary hold (In California, we call that a "5150") based on IP address?
>
> Lou could be considered" gravely disabled "... He should be in the hospital. Perhaps he is genuine in what he says but perhaps just a troll.
>
> This board will never be ruined by anyone, and yes many of us are annoyed or worse. But where do we draw the line? Anyone? Dr. Bob?
Other sites have tools for dealing with trolls. Such as a post gets enough negative votes it gets hidden.Maybe someone should create a dr-bob subreddit on reddit.com. I doubt everyone would want to migrate to reddit, though.
Bob should consider it, though. He wouldn't have to keep this site running and he could still have the benefits of this site. Plus a much bigger audience.
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:30:39
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
> But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us.
Lamdage22, I don't think I have ever seen the word "mission" used as a verb. I like it.
I usually don't like being missioned either. Whether it's religion or marketing or self-help or politics.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 14:34:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Lamdage22, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:30:39
> > But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us.
>
> Lamdage22, I don't think I have ever seen the word "mission" used as a verb. I like it.
>
> I usually don't like being missioned either. Whether it's religion or marketing or self-help or politics.I guess i was meaning to say missionize:)
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:45:59
In reply to Re: the spirit of Truth » Tabitha, posted by SLS on April 20, 2016, at 17:05:08
> I have never heard it put quite that way, but it is a great description of how depression truly becomes an altered state of consciousness. It changes the way you perceive the universe around you and corrupts the logic with which you use to come to conclusions.
Right? I don't think people can imagine it unless they've been there. For me, my brain seemingly becomes incapable of feeling pleasure or hope. With those gone, the thinking system comes up with some doozies.
>
> In my belief system, the Truth is unknowable. It would be like claiming to know the mind of God - or, alternatively, being able to deduce the reason for all of existence.Yeah, I believe in the existence of empirical reality, but I think human brains trick us into thinking our opinions are Truth, and that we are entirely in control of their formation.
> This perspective allows me to view my momentary conclusions as being the product of, or influenced by, my affective or cognitive states.
That is a wise position to take, and I imagine, more peaceful than the alternative.
>
> Depression is a liar. You know this from experience. Perhaps understanding this will reduce your tendency to listen to your depression when attempting to find Truth.
>You'd think, but it still tricks me. Anxiety does, too.
> When did you last feel well - even if it was only briefly?
>I've been feeling mostly well since the last med change. Pdoc is upping my lamictal a tad and I'm sticking with 300mg lithium. The lithium is my wonder-drug right now.
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:58:11
In reply to Lou's reply-the Word is a seed » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 20:14:37
>
> The Spirit of Truth can come into you to dwell in your heart. This is a new Spirit outside of your natural reasoning that does not know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. This Spirit enables you to overcome addiction and depression.
> When the Spirit indwells you, the mysteries that are to those that have not had the Spirit come into their hearts are revealed to you.I have heard people describe their born again experience similarly. In my observation, their initial sense of revelation does not last over time. They also seem to become more and more isolated, because it is a matter of life and death to them to hold onto their beliefs, yet others around them don't share the beliefs. To me it seems a very high cost.
> And in the encounter with the Rider on the white horse, He said to me, "It is given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those that reject the Spirit, it is not given. For the Word is a seed that falls on the hearts of men and if the heart is wicked, the seed can not grow, as they hear the Word and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of the world chokes the Word."
I think that is an example of a rhetorical superpower. You take a position, then claim that if others don't agree, it demonstrates that they are somehow defective. At that point there is nothing they can do to engage with you-- they either agree, or are automatically wrong. You say that there exists a Spirit that can transform you, then if other people don't believe such a Spirit exists, that is merely evidence that their hearts are wicked. It's a good weapon-- the people that don't adopt your belief are not only wrong, but wicked.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 15:42:47
In reply to Re: the Word is a prison » Lou Pilder, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:58:11
>
> >
> > The Spirit of Truth can come into you to dwell in your heart. This is a new Spirit outside of your natural reasoning that does not know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. This Spirit enables you to overcome addiction and depression.
> > When the Spirit indwells you, the mysteries that are to those that have not had the Spirit come into their hearts are revealed to you.
>
> I have heard people describe their born again experience similarly. In my observation, their initial sense of revelation does not last over time. They also seem to become more and more isolated, because it is a matter of life and death to them to hold onto their beliefs, yet others around them don't share the beliefs. To me it seems a very high cost.
>
>
> > And in the encounter with the Rider on the white horse, He said to me, "It is given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those that reject the Spirit, it is not given. For the Word is a seed that falls on the hearts of men and if the heart is wicked, the seed can not grow, as they hear the Word and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of the world chokes the Word."
>
>
> I think that is an example of a rhetorical superpower. You take a position, then claim that if others don't agree, it demonstrates that they are somehow defective. At that point there is nothing they can do to engage with you-- they either agree, or are automatically wrong. You say that there exists a Spirit that can transform you, then if other people don't believe such a Spirit exists, that is merely evidence that their hearts are wicked. It's a good weapon-- the people that don't adopt your belief are not only wrong, but wicked.
>
> Tabitha,
I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
In reply to Lou's reply-the heart is desperatly wicked » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 15:42:47
> I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.
Posted by SLS on April 21, 2016, at 18:41:49
In reply to Re: altered states » SLS, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:45:59
> The lithium is my wonder-drug right now.
Woohoo!
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
>
> Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.If you think about it, this is the approach that psychiatric treatment takes. Someone who is sitting at home, feeling emotionally tormented and lack much desire to get out of bed. They just lay in bed with the TV on. During commercial brakes commercials for psychiatric treatments come on showing an actor feeling the same way they do and describing feeling much the same way. But then this actor says something like "Then I was prescribed Cymbalta" and suddenly the whole tone of the commercial changes. everyone has a big smile on their face and the actor tells about how much better their life has become because of Cymbalta. Through all this a speaker is describing a huge list of side effects ranging from nausea to increased suicidal thinking. After all this, a phrase that emotes deep sympathy and hope to someone in dire need to help is spoken. "Depression hurts, Cymbalta can help"
These commercials tend to look very genuine because theyre made by professionals.
But then too often the person in need of help gets no benefit or is made even worse when they use this treatment. And yes, some do benefit from it greatly.
But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
As I've said, I'm not trying to discredit anyone who has been helped by a med like Cymbalta. I just try to put things in a different perspective than they're generally presented in.
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 20:04:16
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
When profits are the priority above else...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201509/the-truth-about-study-329
Posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
> But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
>
Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.
Posted by SLS on April 22, 2016, at 5:03:55
In reply to Re: the lost sheep » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
This is great synopsis!
- Scott----------------------------------------------
> Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.
>
> Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
>
> The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.
Posted by Hello321 on April 22, 2016, at 9:33:22
In reply to Re: the lost sheep » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
> > But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
> >
> Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.
>
> Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
>
> The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.Do you think if a drug company stumbled upon a treatment didn't require an chemical thst amazingly indefinite amount of use to modify brain function in a way to relieve depression, and therefore was only needed for short term treatment, that it mightnot make business sense for a drug company to develop and sell? Today's treatments have to be taken continuously. And if someone benefits from a med like cymbalta, they might just have they persons business for the rest of his life.
Can't deny that it's profits above patient benefits when you see the light links I posted. The one showing Bayer had sold HIV tainted blood is especially scary. But they saw a possibility that they could get away with it in the country they sold it in, and went for it.
I wish I could see drug companies in the light many users of psychobabble still do. I used to. But if I still viewed them the same way I did in my teens, then my thoughts would be working against my own interests.
But I'll let you guys be. All of you complementing each other when one comes up with a way to show the psychiatric industry in a better light... I get internested in the Congo sometimes, but sometimes it just gets old. One can see both sides of the tale, that theres a possibility these chemicals can help, and still recognize that they're seeking help from an industry that doesn't have their interests at heart, and would infect them with AIDS if it made business sense.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 22, 2016, at 9:48:58
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
> > I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
>
>
> Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.Tabitha,
You wrote that people that feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
Fill in:A. The belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures are:
_____________________________________________B. The ordinary human pleasures that I have not specified, Lou, are:
__________________________________________True or false:
C. I really do not know how the Spirit of Truth that you are writing about, Lou, enters someone that changes a person so that they can overcome addiction and depression.
D. I really do not know that what you could post here to lead people to that Spirit would require them to give up any ordinary human pleasures.
E. The lost and desperate people would be better off being lost and desperate, Lou, than to have a new heart and a new spirit that would lead them to dramatic salvation that could give them power to overcome addiction and depression.
F. I posted what I did, Lou, because I want readers to think that if they are lost and desperate, to discard what you write about receiving the Spirit of Truth and receive a new heart and a new spirit, because that comes from the Jewish perspective.
Lou
Posted by Hello321 on April 22, 2016, at 10:09:15
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 22, 2016, at 9:33:22
I couldn't discount the possibility that a Company like Eli Lilly has knowledge of certain lesser known, unpopular lifestyle changes that were much safer and at least as effective as their drug treatments. Maybe something like a very low carb, high healthy fat diet could benefit many brain problems. But of course it wouldn't be in their interests to promote this.
I dont remember the video I watching weeks ago, but it was about Cancer treatment and i just remember general info from it. It had drug company scientists talking about the advances they're making.and there was a comment one made about how beneficial a certain diet or lifestyle or something can be (dont remember exactly), and he said "If only we could find a way to take all the benefits of this and put it in a pill. I know these aren't exact details, but if a drug company does know of a better treatment, and can't put it in a pool to get rich off of. We are going to be missing out if we don't search far beyond our quest to find a better pill.
Posted by baseball55 on April 22, 2016, at 20:26:13
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 22, 2016, at 10:09:15
Sure it's true that a drug that could be taken once and permanently fix depression might be suppressed as less profitable than drugs that are taken for years. It's also true that non-drug solutions are not studied by drug companies who finance the studies.
I think the solution to this is to vastly increase funding for the NIH and NIMH to take on the studies drug companies have no interest in. That means not cutting taxes and demanding big cuts in discretionary programs and trying to shut down the government. I'd be very interested to see what the NIH budget is and how it's changed in recent years. I think I'll look that up tomorrow and get back to you all.
> I couldn't discount the possibility that a Company like Eli Lilly has knowledge of certain lesser known, unpopular lifestyle changes that were much safer and at least as effective as their drug treatments. Maybe something like a very low carb, high healthy fat diet could benefit many brain problems. But of course it wouldn't be in their interests to promote this.
>
> I dont remember the video I watching weeks ago, but it was about Cancer treatment and i just remember general info from it. It had drug company scientists talking about the advances they're making.and there was a comment one made about how beneficial a certain diet or lifestyle or something can be (dont remember exactly), and he said "If only we could find a way to take all the benefits of this and put it in a pill. I know these aren't exact details, but if a drug company does know of a better treatment, and can't put it in a pool to get rich off of. We are going to be missing out if we don't search far beyond our quest to find a better pill.
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2016, at 6:18:16
In reply to Re: the lost sheep » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on April 22, 2016, at 20:26:13
> Sure it's true that a drug that could be taken once and permanently fix depression might be suppressed as less profitable than drugs that are taken for years. It's also true that non-drug solutions are not studied by drug companies who finance the studies.
>
> I think the solution to this is to vastly increase funding for the NIH and NIMH to take on the studies drug companies have no interest in. That means not cutting taxes and demanding big cuts in discretionary programs and trying to shut down the government. I'd be very interested to see what the NIH budget is and how it's changed in recent years. I think I'll look that up tomorrow and get back to you all.Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Tabitha on April 23, 2016, at 10:24:46
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
> If you think about it, this is the approach that psychiatric treatment takes.Well, sure, proponents of any remedy, whether it's medical, alternative-medical, self-help tactics, special diet books, or even religion will typically make a pitch to the consumer offering to help with their problems.
I understand that you see all approaches as equally valid, thus it doesn't make sense to you to place higher value on psychiatric treatment than non-medical interventions like a change of diet. You don't seem to recognize the value of testing to establish that an intervention is safe and effective before selling it to consumers. Without that testing, people are prone to keep buying and buying books, supplements, and "interesting" therapies and belief systems that don't actually work as expected. People are also prone to think things work that actually don't work, for reasons listed in the articles I linked to previously.
> But then too often the person in need of help gets no benefit or is made even worse when they use this treatment. And yes, some do benefit from it greatly.Yes, it's possible that a medication that has been tested to be effective in a population may not be helpful for all individuals. And it's possible that some (or most) individuals will experience undesirable side effects. However, I think you're making it sound like it's a cr*p-shoot. Which again suggests you don't appreciate the value of controlled testing. If a treatment has FDA approval, it has been shown to be safe, and shown to be more effective than placebo for some portion of a population. It may not be perfectly safe and effective, but isn't it preferable to an intervention that has never been shown to be safe and effective at all, or has even been shown to be ineffective (e.g. acupuncture, homeopathic remedies)? If those things did work, wouldn't the manufacturers or book publishers be motivated to present credible evidence that what they're selling works?
>
> But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments.Of course, nearly everything available in a capitalist society costs money. How much money do you think the book "Grain Brain" made for its publishers? I often see people defending alternative remedies by arguing that conventional medicine is profit-oriented. I don't understand how they overlook the fact that alternative remedies are also profit-oriented.
>
> As I've said, I'm not trying to discredit anyone who has been helped by a med like Cymbalta. I just try to put things in a different perspective than they're generally presented in.If I read you correctly, you want to present the perspective that things such as FDA approval shouldn't carry any more weight that the claims on a book jacket. It's a pretty contrarian position to take on a board dedicated to psychiatric medication.
Posted by Tabitha on April 23, 2016, at 10:44:35
In reply to Lou's reply-a reward for giving up pleasures? » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 22, 2016, at 9:48:58
>
> Tabitha,
> You wrote that people that feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.Pardon me, Lou, I was speaking more of general observations of people who undergo religious conversions (particularly Christian, since that's what I'm familiar with) rather than the specific things you talk about with the Spirit of Truth and the Rider. I'm not really able to say much about your specific recommendations since you don't post details that you think are forbidden by Mr Hsiung.
But I'll try to answer your questions anyway so that you many understand my comment.
> Fill in:
>
> A. The belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures are:Some examples are evangelical Christianty and radical Islam. Both of these promise a blissful afterlife as a reward for the faithful for following restricted lifestyles.
> _____________________________________________
>
> B. The ordinary human pleasures that I have not specified, Lou, are:
> __________________________________________
Many things are regulated by different religions. For instance, many have dietary restrictions. There are rules about what foods can be eaten, and days or weeks of required fasting. Sexual behavior is regulated. Women's participation in public life can be severely limited. People's dress and personal adornment (partiularly women's) can be regulated. People's daily and weekly schedules can be regulated by required prayer and worship times. Some people may thus be missing out on yummy food, free sexual lives, the enjoyment of public life and leadership, the pleasure of being able to control one's own schedule, the enjoyment of sleeping late instead of attending church, the pleasure of wearing colorful clothes, adorning oneself, and feeling the breeze in the hair.
>
> True or false:
> C. I really do not know how the Spirit of Truth that you are writing about, Lou, enters someone that changes a person so that they can overcome addiction and depression.True
> D. I really do not know that what you could post here to lead people to that Spirit would require them to give up any ordinary human pleasures.
True
> E. The lost and desperate people would be better off being lost and desperate, Lou, than to have a new heart and a new spirit that would lead them to dramatic salvation that could give them power to overcome addiction and depression.
That sounds like a false dichotomy. The options for people are not limited to only remaining lost and desperate OR being transformed by the Spirit you talk about.
> F. I posted what I did, Lou, because I want readers to think that if they are lost and desperate, to discard what you write about receiving the Spirit of Truth and receive a new heart and a new spirit, because that comes from the Jewish perspective.False. I don't want anyone to reject what you write because it comes from the Jewish perspective. As I said, most of my personal skepticism about religious paths comes from my experience with Christianity.
Posted by Tabitha on April 23, 2016, at 10:54:53
In reply to Lou's reply-a reward for giving up pleasures? » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 22, 2016, at 9:48:58
Hi again, Lou. Maybe you can answer some questions that will help me understand your posts by knowing their context.
1. The conditions that brought me to psychobabble are:
2. The psychiatric medications I am currently taking (if any) are:
3. Medications I have taken in the past are:
4. Problems I had with medications taken in the past are:
5: Problems I am continuing to experience are:
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2016, at 12:34:53
In reply to Re: a reward for giving up pleasures? » Lou Pilder, posted by Tabitha on April 23, 2016, at 10:44:35
Marry me.
:-)
- Scott
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