![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 76 to 100 of 125. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 20, 2016, at 14:12:14
In reply to Lou's response-the poison of hate » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 11:09:14
Lou,
this discussion has nothing to do with anti-semitism.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 20, 2016, at 14:14:00
In reply to Re: the spirit of Truth, posted by Tabitha on April 20, 2016, at 13:39:22
That is tough struggling for 40 years. I can identify with some of this.
> It is interesting to see the phrase "The Spirit of Truth". I have been struggling with depression for probably 40 years now, and I have just recently realized that I repeatedly start feeling like I have discovered some great Truth. It's always a dark truth, something that makes all human society or human life itself seem fundamentally flawed and horrible. Signs of the dark truth are suddenly everywhere, such that I can't escape it. I am convinced that the Truth was always there but I was blind to it. I spend time going over my entire history, seeing evidence of the Truth all along. I re-write my personal history to include the Truth.
>
> For a while the Truth is actually comforting, despite also being a horrible revelation. It just feels good to finally see the Truth. It is a feeling of power and discernment. It even feels sort of good to be alone with the Truth, because it makes me special and wiser than others. But, eventually I'm overtaken by such a horrible depression that I am driven to get my treatment back in order.
>
> As the depression lifts, the Truth fades away. It just no longer seems true. I realize that my Truth was an interpretation of events, and there are many alternate interpretations. I'm usually embarrassed that I believed my Truth, and sorry if I spoke out of it or acted out of it. I'm also glad to be free of the Truth, since it was so dark and horrible.
>
> Yet, when it begins, the sense that the Truth is *true* is so compelling that it fools me over and over.
>
> I have decided to try very hard to see a growing sense of new Truth as a symptom of depression. It frightens me though, because it's so humbling to recognize that my Truth-detector is faulty, and that I'm susceptible to distorted beliefs. Also because I'm afraid I will fail, and be sucked into believing more distorted Truths.
Posted by SLS on April 20, 2016, at 17:05:08
In reply to Re: the spirit of Truth, posted by Tabitha on April 20, 2016, at 13:39:22
> > I have come here to bring The Spirit of Truth to you. When you receive that Spirit, your mind will be opened to the truth [...]
> It is interesting to see the phrase "The Spirit of Truth". I have been struggling with depression for probably 40 years now, and I have just recently realized that I repeatedly start feeling like I have discovered some great Truth. It's always a dark truth, something that makes all human society or human life itself seem fundamentally flawed and horrible. Signs of the dark truth are suddenly everywhere, such that I can't escape it. I am convinced that the Truth was always there but I was blind to it. I spend time going over my entire history, seeing evidence of the Truth all along. I re-write my personal history to include the Truth.
>
> For a while the Truth is actually comforting, despite also being a horrible revelation. It just feels good to finally see the Truth. It is a feeling of power and discernment. It even feels sort of good to be alone with the Truth, because it makes me special and wiser than others. But, eventually I'm overtaken by such a horrible depression that I am driven to get my treatment back in order.
>
> As the depression lifts, the Truth fades away. It just no longer seems true. I realize that my Truth was an interpretation of events, and there are many alternate interpretations. I'm usually embarrassed that I believed my Truth, and sorry if I spoke out of it or acted out of it. I'm also glad to be free of the Truth, since it was so dark and horrible.
>
> Yet, when it begins, the sense that the Truth is *true* is so compelling that it fools me over and over.
>
> I have decided to try very hard to see a growing sense of new Truth as a symptom of depression. It frightens me though, because it's so humbling to recognize that my Truth-detector is faulty, and that I'm susceptible to distorted beliefs. Also because I'm afraid I will fail, and be sucked into believing more distorted Truths.I have never heard it put quite that way, but it is a great description of how depression truly becomes an altered state of consciousness. It changes the way you perceive the universe around you and corrupts the logic with which you use to come to conclusions.
In my belief system, the Truth is unknowable. It would be like claiming to know the mind of God - or, alternatively, being able to deduce the reason for all of existence. This perspective allows me to view my momentary conclusions as being the product of, or influenced by, my affective or cognitive states.
Depression is a liar. You know this from experience. Perhaps understanding this will reduce your tendency to listen to your depression when attempting to find Truth.
When did you last feel well - even if it was only briefly?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 20:14:37
In reply to Re: the spirit of Truth, posted by Tabitha on April 20, 2016, at 13:39:22
>
> > I have come here to bring The Spirit of Truth to you. When you receive that Spirit, your mind will be opened to the truth [...]
>
> It is interesting to see the phrase "The Spirit of Truth". I have been struggling with depression for probably 40 years now, and I have just recently realized that I repeatedly start feeling like I have discovered some great Truth. It's always a dark truth, something that makes all human society or human life itself seem fundamentally flawed and horrible. Signs of the dark truth are suddenly everywhere, such that I can't escape it. I am convinced that the Truth was always there but I was blind to it. I spend time going over my entire history, seeing evidence of the Truth all along. I re-write my personal history to include the Truth.
>
> For a while the Truth is actually comforting, despite also being a horrible revelation. It just feels good to finally see the Truth. It is a feeling of power and discernment. It even feels sort of good to be alone with the Truth, because it makes me special and wiser than others. But, eventually I'm overtaken by such a horrible depression that I am driven to get my treatment back in order.
>
> As the depression lifts, the Truth fades away. It just no longer seems true. I realize that my Truth was an interpretation of events, and there are many alternate interpretations. I'm usually embarrassed that I believed my Truth, and sorry if I spoke out of it or acted out of it. I'm also glad to be free of the Truth, since it was so dark and horrible.
>
> Yet, when it begins, the sense that the Truth is *true* is so compelling that it fools me over and over.
>
> I have decided to try very hard to see a growing sense of new Truth as a symptom of depression. It frightens me though, because it's so humbling to recognize that my Truth-detector is faulty, and that I'm susceptible to distorted beliefs. Also because I'm afraid I will fail, and be sucked into believing more distorted Truths.Tabitha,
The Spirit of Truth can come into you to dwell in your heart. This is a new Spirit outside of your natural reasoning that does not know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. This Spirit enables you to overcome addiction and depression.
When the Spirit indwells you, the mysteries that are to those that have not had the Spirit come into their hearts are revealed to you.
And in the encounter with the Rider on the white horse, He said to me, "It is given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those that reject the Spirit, it is not given. For the Word is a seed that falls on the hearts of men and if the heart is wicked, the seed can not grow, as they hear the Word and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of the world chokes the Word."
Lou
Posted by baseball55 on April 20, 2016, at 20:37:27
In reply to Re: being closed minded, posted by Lamdage22 on April 20, 2016, at 4:19:55
> You are saying that we deserve the stigma. Who the hell are you to decide that?
>
> And all that just because you have read a book?Huh? I'm saying we've heard it all before.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 20:46:39
In reply to Re: Lou's response-the poison of hate, posted by Lamdage22 on April 20, 2016, at 14:12:14
> Lou,
>
> this discussion has nothing to do with anti-semitism.Lamdage22,
The discussion can be controlled by Mr. Hsiung by him allowing members to post anti-Semitic propaganda with impunity. That allows Jews to be humiliated by Mr. Hsiung which could cause readers to have false feelings of superiority as Mr. Hsiung says that he leaves those to be seen as being supportive and that it will be good in his thinking for his community as a whole to do so.
This tragedy here guided by a psychiatrist into the minds of vulnerable readers could be transferred into downward backward thinking that could induce prejudice and hatred that could be turned inward that could cause depression and suicide and murder as hate groups have been studied extensively finding that drug use was among them. Those groups used Jews as scapegoats and commit violence and destruction against Jews that could come from sites like this as they can see that the psychiatrist here allows anti-Semitic propaganda to be seen as being supportive, for support takes precedence according to him, which is a powerful influence even to educated people.
The humiliation of the Jews by allowing defamation toward me compounds the hate exponentially. This could seriously mislead readers to think that Jews are inferior people not worthy of the equal protection of the rules here. That is known as discrimination which is an abuse of power. I am trying to stop the abuse
because it could cause suicide, murder and depression and addiction and life-ruining conditions as readers are misled to think that hate is civil. It has been revealed to me that by Mr. Hsiung allowing the hate, that this site is poisoned.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 7:33:51
In reply to Lou's response-the poison of hate » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 11:09:14
> > > Anyone else on here we should consider banning because their message goes against us in our search for more pills? I don't wanna eat better or do anything else that might make my life better, I want more pills! Something with a neat, scientific sounding name would be preferable. They say exercise could help improve mood, but the only way I'm doing that is if "science" could like, put exercise in a pill for me. And anyone who realizes their life was screwed by taking these pills, well, let's pretend their experience never happened because it might impede us on our search for more pills!
> >
> > Did pills ever work for you? If not, have you ever entertained the notion that you don't have an illness that pills are designed to treat?
> >
> > Mr. Pilder exaggerates and overgeneralizes and goes out of his way to scare people using misinformation and disinformation, as is often presented by book-writing, cherry-picking charlatans who refuse to use science as a method of helping people. Which antidepressants do you feel have never greatly improved someone's affective disorder? By the way, as much as eating better and exercising (anaerobic and aerobic) more has undoubtedly improved my overall health, they haven't improved in anyway my crippling bipolar depression. I suppose I should rail against Nautilus and Nordic Track as being hoaxes.
> >
> > Pills work.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> Now let us see how Mr. Hsiung allows defamation against me here with impunity that could poison the minds of readers against me.
> Here Scott writes that I exaggerate and overgeneralize and go out of my way to scare and use misinformation from other's books who Scott lables as charlatans and that I refuse to use science as a method of helping people.
> This is defamation being allowed by Mr. Hsiung over and over that could influence readers to have hatred instilled in them toward me and decreases the respect, regard and confidence in which I am held and creates hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me.
> This is all against the rules of Mr. Hsiung which shows the abuse of power by him being used to foster hated toward me and stigmatize and humiliate me. But worse, you could discard what I write by thinking that Mr. Hsiung thinks it is good in the future for his community as a whole. That is the same ill-logic used to justify genocide, slavery, discrimination, segregation, infanticide and mass-murder. The tragedy here is that it is not only Scott being allowed to defame me, but others such as Larry Hoover and now Robert Burton and Zonked and others.
> Thousands of people including children are killed by these drugs each month. That is not overgeneralizing or exaggerating, for other scientists that know a whole lot more than Scott, give a much greater number of deaths each month from these drugs.
> The drugs being promoted here are not medicines for they do not treat a disease. They are chemicals used in insecticides and rat poison and are nerve agents. These chemicals act on the nerves that kill. In humans, if the drug doen't kill, the taker could be addicted and/or get a life-ruining condition. And there could be no return. These chemicals do not cure anything at all. They can cause disease, disability and death. They can be used in the commission of mass-murder.
> I have come here to bring The Spirit of Truth to you. When you receive that Spirit, your mind will be opened to the truth and you will be made free from the chains of addiction and depression. And when you see The Abomination that makes desolate here, it has been revealed to me that you know that the Spirit of Truth is hovering over you. Mr. Hsiunf has posted the swastika and refuses to remove it. That abomination can be seen as being supportive by him.
> Never again.
> LouFriends,
Be not deceived. What Scott has posted here about my character could deceive you because what he has posted about me is not true. And where does the slander of me come from? And to whom is that revealed to?
You may be persuaded to be drawn into the hate posted against me here by Scott as Mr. Hsiung is allowing Scott to be immune from his enforcement policy in his TOS. I question the legality of Mr. Hsiung allowing this hate to be seen as being supportive by him here. But Mr. Hsiung wants you to trust him in what he does or does not do here. He says that he wants the Golden Rule to be implemented in posting and allows Scott's defamation of me to be seen as that the Golden Rule is being implemented by Scott. This insults Judaism, as the Golden Rule finds its earliest written form in the scriptures that the Jews use. This is another way that anti-Semitism can be created and developed in a community. By Mr. Hsiung allowing what Scott wrote about me to be thought to be in the Golden Rule of Judaism, is a perversion of the golden Rule in Judaism that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings. This is all because Scott has posted using me as a scapegoat for the communities real or imagined ills and advocates ignoring what I post, which Mr. Hsiung also allows, and also allows Scott to post anti-Semitic hate as Scott posts that Jews need to convert to Christendom to be saved. For Mr. Hsiung to allow centuries of hate to be openly posted as being supportive by him as a psychiatrist, turns my stomach. The posting of the swastika by Mr. Hsiung himself, could reinforce hatred toward the Jews being seen as being supportive by him could infest the minds of readers here that are under the influence of mind-altering drugs to join hate groups bent on the destruction of Jews.
Lou
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
In reply to I'm sorry, posted by Hello321 on April 19, 2016, at 7:34:49
Well, Hello321, you have some points. I still dont like that you are being judgmental. But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us. Most people dont want to hear it, as you sure noticed.
If they dont want to hear it, then they are not ready for it. People try to mission me regarding smoking regular cigarettes. But i dont try to mission them to vape. It is not my health and not my job. If they were ready to hear it, id recommend it. But if not, than thats just a sad fact of life.
I dont think exercise and nutrition is a cureall but it can be an important component to a good life. But equally important is having a good social support system.
Your message came through to me, im still not ready to do it. For one, i take Antipsychotics which make healthy nutrition almost impossible. I went to the gym but i just couldnt do exercise for the life of it! I tried but i cant right now.
You need to accept that your remarks dont work for most people here. Doesnt mean you have to judge us. Its kind of condescending.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:54:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
And Lou,
i dont know what to tell you. If youd put your energy into a job, you would be a millionaire by now.
Is this really how you want to spend your life?
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 11:45:49
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
> Well, Hello321, you have some points. I still dont like that you are being judgmental. But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us. Most people dont want to hear it, as you sure noticed.
>
> If they dont want to hear it, then they are not ready for it. People try to mission me regarding smoking regular cigarettes. But i dont try to mission them to vape. It is not my health and not my job. If they were ready to hear it, id recommend it. But if not, than thats just a sad fact of life.
>
> I dont think exercise and nutrition is a cureall but it can be an important component to a good life. But equally important is having a good social support system.
>
> Your message came through to me, im still not ready to do it. For one, i take Antipsychotics which make healthy nutrition almost impossible. I went to the gym but i just couldnt do exercise for the life of it! I tried but i cant right now.
>
> You need to accept that your remarks dont work for most people here. Doesnt mean you have to judge us. Its kind of condescending.
>
>
>Oh, okay.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 11:47:22
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:54:52
> And Lou,
>
> i dont know what to tell you. If youd put your energy into a job, you would be a millionaire by now.
>
> Is this really how you want to spend your life?
>
> Lamdage22,
The energy that I have comes from above as the Spirit of Truth leads me here to try to free the captives of the lies that are seriously misleading readers here that could cause addiction, life-ruining conditions and death.
I have been given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven and to lead the lost sheep to receive that Spirit. For that Spirit changes the heart to a new heart that gives peace and joy so that you can sing a new song and return to the green fields that you used to know. And there is a reward from above that I could also reveal here.
And in the encounter, the Rider said to me, "Lay not up for yourself treasures upon earth, where moth and rust will corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourself treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust will corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
Lou
Posted by TriedEveryMedication on April 21, 2016, at 12:21:49
In reply to what to do about Lou ....Dr . Bob?, posted by zonked on April 16, 2016, at 1:58:41
> Wowzers. Um, is it possible to place someone on an involuntary hold (In California, we call that a "5150") based on IP address?
>
> Lou could be considered" gravely disabled "... He should be in the hospital. Perhaps he is genuine in what he says but perhaps just a troll.
>
> This board will never be ruined by anyone, and yes many of us are annoyed or worse. But where do we draw the line? Anyone? Dr. Bob?
Other sites have tools for dealing with trolls. Such as a post gets enough negative votes it gets hidden.Maybe someone should create a dr-bob subreddit on reddit.com. I doubt everyone would want to migrate to reddit, though.
Bob should consider it, though. He wouldn't have to keep this site running and he could still have the benefits of this site. Plus a much bigger audience.
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:30:39
In reply to Re: I'm sorry, posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 10:51:47
> But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us.
Lamdage22, I don't think I have ever seen the word "mission" used as a verb. I like it.
I usually don't like being missioned either. Whether it's religion or marketing or self-help or politics.
Posted by Lamdage22 on April 21, 2016, at 14:34:52
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Lamdage22, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:30:39
> > But i can tell you you can give up trying to mission us.
>
> Lamdage22, I don't think I have ever seen the word "mission" used as a verb. I like it.
>
> I usually don't like being missioned either. Whether it's religion or marketing or self-help or politics.I guess i was meaning to say missionize:)
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:45:59
In reply to Re: the spirit of Truth » Tabitha, posted by SLS on April 20, 2016, at 17:05:08
> I have never heard it put quite that way, but it is a great description of how depression truly becomes an altered state of consciousness. It changes the way you perceive the universe around you and corrupts the logic with which you use to come to conclusions.
Right? I don't think people can imagine it unless they've been there. For me, my brain seemingly becomes incapable of feeling pleasure or hope. With those gone, the thinking system comes up with some doozies.
>
> In my belief system, the Truth is unknowable. It would be like claiming to know the mind of God - or, alternatively, being able to deduce the reason for all of existence.Yeah, I believe in the existence of empirical reality, but I think human brains trick us into thinking our opinions are Truth, and that we are entirely in control of their formation.
> This perspective allows me to view my momentary conclusions as being the product of, or influenced by, my affective or cognitive states.
That is a wise position to take, and I imagine, more peaceful than the alternative.
>
> Depression is a liar. You know this from experience. Perhaps understanding this will reduce your tendency to listen to your depression when attempting to find Truth.
>You'd think, but it still tricks me. Anxiety does, too.
> When did you last feel well - even if it was only briefly?
>I've been feeling mostly well since the last med change. Pdoc is upping my lamictal a tad and I'm sticking with 300mg lithium. The lithium is my wonder-drug right now.
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:58:11
In reply to Lou's reply-the Word is a seed » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 20, 2016, at 20:14:37
>
> The Spirit of Truth can come into you to dwell in your heart. This is a new Spirit outside of your natural reasoning that does not know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. This Spirit enables you to overcome addiction and depression.
> When the Spirit indwells you, the mysteries that are to those that have not had the Spirit come into their hearts are revealed to you.I have heard people describe their born again experience similarly. In my observation, their initial sense of revelation does not last over time. They also seem to become more and more isolated, because it is a matter of life and death to them to hold onto their beliefs, yet others around them don't share the beliefs. To me it seems a very high cost.
> And in the encounter with the Rider on the white horse, He said to me, "It is given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those that reject the Spirit, it is not given. For the Word is a seed that falls on the hearts of men and if the heart is wicked, the seed can not grow, as they hear the Word and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of the world chokes the Word."
I think that is an example of a rhetorical superpower. You take a position, then claim that if others don't agree, it demonstrates that they are somehow defective. At that point there is nothing they can do to engage with you-- they either agree, or are automatically wrong. You say that there exists a Spirit that can transform you, then if other people don't believe such a Spirit exists, that is merely evidence that their hearts are wicked. It's a good weapon-- the people that don't adopt your belief are not only wrong, but wicked.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 15:42:47
In reply to Re: the Word is a prison » Lou Pilder, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:58:11
>
> >
> > The Spirit of Truth can come into you to dwell in your heart. This is a new Spirit outside of your natural reasoning that does not know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. This Spirit enables you to overcome addiction and depression.
> > When the Spirit indwells you, the mysteries that are to those that have not had the Spirit come into their hearts are revealed to you.
>
> I have heard people describe their born again experience similarly. In my observation, their initial sense of revelation does not last over time. They also seem to become more and more isolated, because it is a matter of life and death to them to hold onto their beliefs, yet others around them don't share the beliefs. To me it seems a very high cost.
>
>
> > And in the encounter with the Rider on the white horse, He said to me, "It is given to you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to those that reject the Spirit, it is not given. For the Word is a seed that falls on the hearts of men and if the heart is wicked, the seed can not grow, as they hear the Word and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of the world chokes the Word."
>
>
> I think that is an example of a rhetorical superpower. You take a position, then claim that if others don't agree, it demonstrates that they are somehow defective. At that point there is nothing they can do to engage with you-- they either agree, or are automatically wrong. You say that there exists a Spirit that can transform you, then if other people don't believe such a Spirit exists, that is merely evidence that their hearts are wicked. It's a good weapon-- the people that don't adopt your belief are not only wrong, but wicked.
>
> Tabitha,
I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
In reply to Lou's reply-the heart is desperatly wicked » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on April 21, 2016, at 15:42:47
> I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.
Posted by SLS on April 21, 2016, at 18:41:49
In reply to Re: altered states » SLS, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 14:45:59
> The lithium is my wonder-drug right now.
Woohoo!
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
>
> Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.If you think about it, this is the approach that psychiatric treatment takes. Someone who is sitting at home, feeling emotionally tormented and lack much desire to get out of bed. They just lay in bed with the TV on. During commercial brakes commercials for psychiatric treatments come on showing an actor feeling the same way they do and describing feeling much the same way. But then this actor says something like "Then I was prescribed Cymbalta" and suddenly the whole tone of the commercial changes. everyone has a big smile on their face and the actor tells about how much better their life has become because of Cymbalta. Through all this a speaker is describing a huge list of side effects ranging from nausea to increased suicidal thinking. After all this, a phrase that emotes deep sympathy and hope to someone in dire need to help is spoken. "Depression hurts, Cymbalta can help"
These commercials tend to look very genuine because theyre made by professionals.
But then too often the person in need of help gets no benefit or is made even worse when they use this treatment. And yes, some do benefit from it greatly.
But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
As I've said, I'm not trying to discredit anyone who has been helped by a med like Cymbalta. I just try to put things in a different perspective than they're generally presented in.
Posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 20:04:16
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
When profits are the priority above else...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/side-effects/201509/the-truth-about-study-329
Posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Hello321 on April 21, 2016, at 18:45:05
> But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
>
Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.
Posted by SLS on April 22, 2016, at 5:03:55
In reply to Re: the lost sheep » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
This is great synopsis!
- Scott----------------------------------------------
> Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.
>
> Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
>
> The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.
Posted by Hello321 on April 22, 2016, at 9:33:22
In reply to Re: the lost sheep » Hello321, posted by baseball55 on April 21, 2016, at 20:12:43
> > But in the end, a chemical developed by an extremely wealthy drug company is developed for the same reason any "get well quick" treatment is developed. To bring in more money to the seller. The sellers interests are highest on the list is of priorities. And one jhas to wonder where mental health treatment would be at today if this weren't the case. If getting help to the ones who are suffering were the highest priority. And this goes for any such medical treatments. Maybe then there'd even be no need for psychobabble to exist.
> >
> Just because drug companies are trying to make fortunes on drugs, doesn't mean the drugs themselves are shams. I'm no fan of drug companies. But I recognize that drug companies have made fortunes developing new antibiotics to treat infections for which standard treatments don't work. They've made fortunes on drugs like tamoxafin, which has greatly increased the life expectancy of women with breast cancer. They've made huge fortunes with statins, which successfully lower cholesterol and on any number of meds that lower blood pressure. They are trying to develop drugs to treat Alzheimers, which would be a huge and lucrative market.
>
> Drugs that don't work don's sell. So they try to develop drugs that work. I'm sure if they could figure out a sure-fire AD, they would market it like crazy and make a fortune. They just haven't figured it out yet because nobody really understands the neuro-physiology of depression. I also have no doubt they are looking for drugs that treat psychosis without the metabolic side effects.
>
> The real problem is that the US has no national health care system to negotiate prices and perform basic cost-benefit analysis. Drugs stay on patent too long. Drug reps try to corrupt doctors (and often succeed) by paying them to speak about drugs at fancy dinners at expensive restaurants. All this sucks, but that doesn't mean they don't develop or try to develop breakthrough drugs.Do you think if a drug company stumbled upon a treatment didn't require an chemical thst amazingly indefinite amount of use to modify brain function in a way to relieve depression, and therefore was only needed for short term treatment, that it mightnot make business sense for a drug company to develop and sell? Today's treatments have to be taken continuously. And if someone benefits from a med like cymbalta, they might just have they persons business for the rest of his life.
Can't deny that it's profits above patient benefits when you see the light links I posted. The one showing Bayer had sold HIV tainted blood is especially scary. But they saw a possibility that they could get away with it in the country they sold it in, and went for it.
I wish I could see drug companies in the light many users of psychobabble still do. I used to. But if I still viewed them the same way I did in my teens, then my thoughts would be working against my own interests.
But I'll let you guys be. All of you complementing each other when one comes up with a way to show the psychiatric industry in a better light... I get internested in the Congo sometimes, but sometimes it just gets old. One can see both sides of the tale, that theres a possibility these chemicals can help, and still recognize that they're seeking help from an industry that doesn't have their interests at heart, and would infect them with AIDS if it made business sense.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 22, 2016, at 9:48:58
In reply to Re: the lost sheep, posted by Tabitha on April 21, 2016, at 16:30:24
> > I have come here to seek and have saved the lost sheep. These are those that know that their heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
>
>
> Right. People who feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.Tabitha,
You wrote that people that feel desperate and lost are more vulnerable to belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures.
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
Fill in:A. The belief systems that promise dramatic salvation as reward for giving up many of the ordinary human pleasures are:
_____________________________________________B. The ordinary human pleasures that I have not specified, Lou, are:
__________________________________________True or false:
C. I really do not know how the Spirit of Truth that you are writing about, Lou, enters someone that changes a person so that they can overcome addiction and depression.
D. I really do not know that what you could post here to lead people to that Spirit would require them to give up any ordinary human pleasures.
E. The lost and desperate people would be better off being lost and desperate, Lou, than to have a new heart and a new spirit that would lead them to dramatic salvation that could give them power to overcome addiction and depression.
F. I posted what I did, Lou, because I want readers to think that if they are lost and desperate, to discard what you write about receiving the Spirit of Truth and receive a new heart and a new spirit, because that comes from the Jewish perspective.
Lou
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