![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 80. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2015, at 21:10:31
In reply to Lou's reply-wuncuponehytym » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2015, at 19:41:08
> > Strattera = atomoxetine
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15554766
> >
> > "A MEDLINE search was conducted for articles published from 1962 to December 2003 using relevant search terms (psychostimulant, stimulant, amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, pemoline or methylphenidate, atomoxetine, bupropion, monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and selegiline)."
> >
> > "No documented reports were found in the recent literature of hypertensive crises or fatalities occurring when the stimulant was cautiously added to the MAOI."
> >
> > I performed my own searches and was unable to find a single case of adverse reaction attributable to the combination of Strattera (atomoxetine) with tranylcypromine. It is understandable that the drug company for Strattera (Lilly) would want to unconditionally contraindicate combinations of its drug with MAOIs. Older medical literature clinged to the notion that one could not combine MAOIs with any other antidepressant or stimulant. In real life, this has since been shown to be erroneous. The most important adverse reactions occur with drugs that potentiate serotonin neurotransmission, such as SSRIs and SNRIs. This includes the tricyclics: imipramine and clomipramine.
> >
> > Also:
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7931221
> >
> > "These results suggest that reboxetine might be advantageously combined with tranylcypromine, or any MAO inhibitor..."
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> Scott,
> I read that and Strattera is not a stimulant according to my research. In other studies it was Ritalin and Adderall that were cited. And anyway, the article admits that the treatment has risks and just because in their search they did not find deaths, that does not mean that the combination is not contraindicated, for it is and the study was from years ago and there is new additional information available today that was unbeknownst to then. And readers, if taking a combination of drugs is contraindicated, that means the combination is not to be prescribed. I agree that in cases where there is no hope, like last stage cancer, any treatment could be used for there is nothing to loose. But now there are oncologists that do not use chemo in end stage cancer because it could make the patient worse. If there are psychiatrists still using Parnate with Strattera, I do not know of any reports of such in the present. I agree that there could be those in 2003 and such. But that was one-upon-a-time, and once-upon-a-time I havn't seen to come again.
> If you want readers to take the two drugs together, if they die from the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
> Lou
>
Friends,
The urgency here is that I am afraid that you will discount what I post as per my adversaries here posting what could decrease the respect and regard and confidence in which I am held and induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me.
I say this with shame, for I am appalled that these hatefull messages here are allowed to be posted about me and that the citations could influence you to take a deadly combination of drugs. And not only is the combination one that could kill you, but by themselves, the drugs are dangerous to human beings all allowed to be promoted here as "medicines" and the posting is supportive.
You see, Strattera was not on the market in the U.S. until 2006. That is not in the citations by my adversaries here to influence you. And the suicidal thinking risk with Strattera is high comparatively as almost 4%. And some of the chemicals in Strattera are illegal in many countries. You see, the drug (redacted by respondent) and is used to keep dogs from urinating. Do you want to take this (redacted by respondent)?
Lou
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2015, at 21:11:26
In reply to Lou's reply-wuncuponehytym » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2015, at 19:41:08
I will agree that the abstract did not say explicitly, "atomoxetine can be combined safely with tranylcypromine". It is unfortunate that the full article is not available to scrutinize. The authors listed atomoxetine and bupropion as drugs included in their research of stimulants. If they had found an adverse event with either of these two drugs, I imagine they would have reported it. I am not sure of their rationale, but they grouped together atomoxetine and bupropion with drugs that are routinely described as being "stimulants". Both drugs, are, however, NE reuptake inhibitors (NRI) that are useful in treating ADD / ADHD and have properties in common with methylphenidate.
* As per the article:
Stimulant = amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, pemoline or methylphenidate, atomoxetine, bupropion
"No documented reports were found in the recent literature of hypertensive crises or fatalities occurring when the stimulant [amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, pemoline or methylphenidate, atomoxetine, bupropion] was cautiously added to the MAOI."
That's the way I interpreted the abstract.
Do you know of anyone who has taken atomoxetine and tranylcypromine together? Were there any fatal reactions?
Which tricyclic antidepressants are safe to take with MAO inhibitors?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2015, at 21:45:16
In reply to Lou's reply-urgent, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2015, at 21:10:31
It is unfortunate that you place yourself in the position of adversary. I'm sure people would rather treat you as a colleague who dissents against the consensus. However, you refuse to work "with" people. You never communicate with others in the form of a dialogue. You prefer to remain dogmatic in your presentation. This is a shame. You are certainly intelligent enough to understand much of the material being discussed here. You just don't seem to be motivated enough to seek facts and theories beyond those that attempt to prove your thesis and agenda.
Because you interrupt and hijack other people's threads, you have become a pariah. If you want to stimulate true discourse, I recommend that you start your own threads with descriptive subject titles. Ask for honest feedback from others that you consider honestly for yourself. The Socratic Dialogue works well. If you communicate personally with other people in a true dialogue, respect will come easily to you, and you are much more likely to effect change.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 24, 2015, at 22:08:46
In reply to Re: Stopping Parnate for surgery? Help! » Uncouth, posted by Uncouth on July 23, 2015, at 11:26:19
> I will be tapering down Parnate by 10mg/day over the next 13 days.
That sounds like a good idea.
Some of the withdrawal symptoms you may experience include: great fatigue, REM rebound dreaming, depressive rebound symptomatology (worse than original depression), anxiety, somnolence, impaired concentration, dizziness, weakness, headaches, and diarrhea, among others.
Increasing the dosage of Abilify to 5.0 mg/day is a reasonable choice. You might also ask your doctors if taking a benzodiazepine now to reduce the anxiety and act as a bridge until you can restart the Parnate makes sense. Have you thought to replace Strattera with nortriptyline? I'll have to brainstorm this thing more.
I am sure that others will offer better ideas than mine.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 26, 2015, at 22:34:47
In reply to Stopping Parnate for surgery? Help!, posted by Uncouth on July 20, 2015, at 10:20:26
How are you?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2015, at 7:36:45
In reply to Lou's reply-urgent, posted by Lou Pilder on July 24, 2015, at 21:10:31
> > > Strattera = atomoxetine
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15554766
> > >
> > > "A MEDLINE search was conducted for articles published from 1962 to December 2003 using relevant search terms (psychostimulant, stimulant, amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, pemoline or methylphenidate, atomoxetine, bupropion, monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and selegiline)."
> > >
> > > "No documented reports were found in the recent literature of hypertensive crises or fatalities occurring when the stimulant was cautiously added to the MAOI."
> > >
> > > I performed my own searches and was unable to find a single case of adverse reaction attributable to the combination of Strattera (atomoxetine) with tranylcypromine. It is understandable that the drug company for Strattera (Lilly) would want to unconditionally contraindicate combinations of its drug with MAOIs. Older medical literature clinged to the notion that one could not combine MAOIs with any other antidepressant or stimulant. In real life, this has since been shown to be erroneous. The most important adverse reactions occur with drugs that potentiate serotonin neurotransmission, such as SSRIs and SNRIs. This includes the tricyclics: imipramine and clomipramine.
> > >
> > > Also:
> > >
> > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7931221
> > >
> > > "These results suggest that reboxetine might be advantageously combined with tranylcypromine, or any MAO inhibitor..."
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > Scott,
> > I read that and Strattera is not a stimulant according to my research. In other studies it was Ritalin and Adderall that were cited. And anyway, the article admits that the treatment has risks and just because in their search they did not find deaths, that does not mean that the combination is not contraindicated, for it is and the study was from years ago and there is new additional information available today that was unbeknownst to then. And readers, if taking a combination of drugs is contraindicated, that means the combination is not to be prescribed. I agree that in cases where there is no hope, like last stage cancer, any treatment could be used for there is nothing to loose. But now there are oncologists that do not use chemo in end stage cancer because it could make the patient worse. If there are psychiatrists still using Parnate with Strattera, I do not know of any reports of such in the present. I agree that there could be those in 2003 and such. But that was one-upon-a-time, and once-upon-a-time I havn't seen to come again.
> > If you want readers to take the two drugs together, if they die from the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
> > Lou
> >
> Friends,
> The urgency here is that I am afraid that you will discount what I post as per my adversaries here posting what could decrease the respect and regard and confidence in which I am held and induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me.
> I say this with shame, for I am appalled that these hatefull messages here are allowed to be posted about me and that the citations could influence you to take a deadly combination of drugs. And not only is the combination one that could kill you, but by themselves, the drugs are dangerous to human beings all allowed to be promoted here as "medicines" and the posting is supportive.
> You see, Strattera was not on the market in the U.S. until 2006. That is not in the citations by my adversaries here to influence you. And the suicidal thinking risk with Strattera is high comparatively as almost 4%. And some of the chemicals in Strattera are illegal in many countries. You see, the drug (redacted by respondent) and is used to keep dogs from urinating. Do you want to take this (redacted by respondent)?
> Lou
>
Friends,
Many of you already know that there are scoffers here in the last days of posters here saying that I overgeneralize and exaggerate. But I say to you and any of them that are being allowed to post defamatory messages against my character here that what I have been posting is true, but could be unbeknownst to you.
Here is the showing of the deaths from Strattera up to 2010. I have other records of the deaths from Strattera beyond that date. The drug kills by inducing suicidal thoughts and by other ways.
And you mothers. Take heed that you are not deceived to think by reading here that what I post here could be discarded by the nature of the slander of me being allowed to be posted here by Mr. Hsiung and any of his deputies with impunity. I have done my due diligence in researching the drug Strattera and I tell you that it is a knock-off of another drug using chemicals that in some countries are not allowed. And if your psychiatrist/doctor wants to give your child Strattera, ask them to enter this forum and have dialog with me here. Then I could tell you the rest of the story and even show the historical relationship between psychiatry and mass-murder that Mr. Hsiung has made prohibitions to me here to post about,but he posts the swastika and will not take it down. And here we have the open promotion of the drug Strattera that causes suicidal ideation in children. here is the link showing from the FDA what I am saying.
Lou
http://www.lamplightersoftware.com/strattera.html
Posted by Uncouth on July 29, 2015, at 9:51:28
In reply to What's up? » Uncouth, posted by SLS on July 26, 2015, at 22:34:47
Thanks for asking Scott. I am doing ok. It's been six days of withdrawal from 120mg. Today I will take 70mg and see my pdoc tomorrow. My appetite has markedly increases and I get some fatigue as well as some worsening in motivation and sleep quality (haven't been able to work out as much as I had been). Having very vivid dreams though I think this is more due to the 80mg of strattera.
I will be asking my pdoc tomorrow about possibly switching from strattera to a TCA like desipramine or nortryptiline if it helps pick up slack from parnate withdrawal.
I also started agomelatine and will remain on it for just a few weeks before surgery to help with Sleep and anhedonia,
Decided to not continue on abilify unless absolutely necessary due to weight gain which has been noticeable (more carb cravings) at even the lowest dose.
Also started trivastal RT 100-150mg per day. Have always done well on DA but mirapex poops out quickly, have never tried trivastal and interested because it's a partial agonist. I'm sure I will have to stop this med in 2 weeks as well before my surgery but again hoping it will help in interim. So yeah lots of things going on at once but so far mood has not sunk substantially....ask me next week when I'm off parnate totally :)
Posted by SLS on July 29, 2015, at 10:59:01
In reply to Re: What's up? » SLS, posted by Uncouth on July 29, 2015, at 9:51:28
> So yeah lots of things going on at once but so far mood has not sunk substantially....ask me next week when I'm off parnate totally :)
I hope things remain tolerable for you.
- Scott
Posted by Uncouth on August 3, 2015, at 11:06:03
In reply to Re: What's up? » Uncouth, posted by SLS on July 29, 2015, at 10:59:01
Update:
Down to 40mg parnate from 120mg, decreasing rapidly at 10mg per day in advance of surgery in 18 days.
Doc put me on Fetzima on Thursday which I started (40mg...no sign of serotonin syndrome btw despite being still on MAOI). This weekend sucked, mood has declined with the decline of parnate dose but not to a severe level, but fatigue and lethargy through the roof, spent most of the day in bed. Have been taking agomelatine as well, and increased dose to 50mg last night and woke up with more energy and improved mood, but won't be staying on this.
Ability at 2mg seems also to be helping and 75-150 nuvigil as needed helps slightly getting through the parnate withdrawal.
Really hoping Fetzima works without pushing me to hypomania, as that was always the end result of cybalta or Effexor for me. Doc said he has has great results with Fetzima.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 3, 2015, at 19:45:54
In reply to Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush, posted by Lou Pilder on July 21, 2015, at 20:13:26
> > > > -nhelpful? Self-centered? Obsessed with imaginary problems on PB?
> > > >
> > > > apparently. ;-)
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Many of you already know that I am here to save lives, prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. And I am trying so hard, laboring under many prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung, to free the captives and lead people back to the green fields that they used to know.
> > > And here there are many that have been killed by the drugs being allowed to be promoted here as medicines. And worse, members post that they take a combination of drugs that if they don't kill them, they could be addicted or get a life-ruining condition. All of that under the banner of support as Mr. Hsiung's rules are under that being supportive takes precedence. That could mislead readers to think that taking a combination of drugs that could kill them is being supportive here. And look at all those that have died here that you can see. But what about those that have been killed by the drugs that you can't see here? There are thousands killed each month by these drugs. Drugs that many start with motor oil that have chemical constituents that have been used to kill insects and rats and used in the commission of mass-murder even to this day. And the mothers trying to decide. Their child could be killed by taking the combination of chemicals advocated here as being supportive as the rules state and members are in doubt?
> > > If someone else greater than me posted here you might believe. Where have you gone Dr. Quackenbush, a forum turns its doubtful hearts to you. But as long as this being allowed here as to be seen as supportive and readers are killed by the combination of those drugs, so shall I attempt to warn them, and their blood will not be upon me.
> >
> > Friends,
> > If someone greater than me told you what I also posted, would you stand up and walk out on me?
> > Here is a vid that is by one greater than me, Dr. Peter Gotzsche. Maybe you will listen to him.
> > Lou
> > to see this video bring up Google and type in:
> > [ youtube, dozpAshvtsA ]
>
> Friends,
> Let us enter the conversation with the hypothetical people, Dr. Quackenbush and client Helen Weilz.
> Dr. Quackenbush: How do you feel today, Helen?
> Helen Weilz: I am feeling pretty sick now.
> Dr. Quackenbush: Do you want me to call you an ambulance?
> Helen Weilz: I have been called worse than that.
> Dr. Quackenbush: Well, did you take a shower this morning?
> Helen Weilz: Why, is there one missing?
> Dr. Quackenbush: Have you been looking at that "Dr. Bob" site?
> Helen Weilz: That Lou guy says that taking Strattera with Parnate could cause death. Is he right?
> Dr. Quackenbush: Yes, he is. The two taken together is contraindicated and could raise blood pressure that could cause death. I would never prescribe them both together
> Helen Weilz: But this other guy says that taking a stimulant with Parnate like Ritalin, could not cause such and Strattera is a stimulant.
> Dr. Quackenbush: But just because they are both stimulants, they could have two different modes of action with Parnate. Like if there were two snakes to handle, one could inject in its bite poison and the other not, even though they are both snakes.
> Helen Weilz; Hey that really clears that up. I think that you ought to enter that forum and help them think like that. Another poster writes of great fear about taking drugs. There is a whole lot of shakin' goin' on.
> Dr. Quackenbush; I will look into that site and see if I can help those people.
> LouDr. Quackenbush: Helen, I have some results back as I have looked into that "Dr. Bob" site.
Helen Weilz: Dr! DR! give me the news
Dr. Quackenbush: You've got a bad case of reading Lou's
Helen Weilz: You see, I have read what he is posting and lives could be saved if readers harkened to him. But that raises the issue as to if psychiatry itself that advocates drugging people is a fraud. How could thousands of people being killed each month by the drugs be part of a sound mental-health practice? That could cause you to have a bad case of reading Lou's (posts)
Lou
Posted by Jay_OriginalOne on August 13, 2015, at 20:11:00
In reply to Dogmatic pariahs » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on July 24, 2015, at 21:45:16
> It is unfortunate that you place yourself in the position of adversary. I'm sure people would rather treat you as a colleague who dissents against the consensus. However, you refuse to work "with" people. You never communicate with others in the form of a dialogue. >snip<
>
> - ScottAwesome as always Scott! Two lines from one of my favourite songs fit well with this...what do you think?
"Pariah dogs and wandering madmen
Barking at strangers and speaking in tongues"Tee-hee...
Jay
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2015, at 5:43:48
In reply to Dogmatic pariahs » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on July 24, 2015, at 21:45:16
> It is unfortunate that you place yourself in the position of adversary. I'm sure people would rather treat you as a colleague who dissents against the consensus. However, you refuse to work "with" people. You never communicate with others in the form of a dialogue. You prefer to remain dogmatic in your presentation. This is a shame. You are certainly intelligent enough to understand much of the material being discussed here. You just don't seem to be motivated enough to seek facts and theories beyond those that attempt to prove your thesis and agenda.
>
> Because you interrupt and hijack other people's threads, you have become a pariah. If you want to stimulate true discourse, I recommend that you start your own threads with descriptive subject titles. Ask for honest feedback from others that you consider honestly for yourself. The Socratic Dialogue works well. If you communicate personally with other people in a true dialogue, respect will come easily to you, and you are much more likely to effect change.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[...Dogmatic pariahs...]
I could be your subject person and in fact you state that. That could decrease the respect, regard and confidence n which I am held to induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. There are two important aspects of my presence here. One is to save lives and the other is to eradicate the anti-Semitic propaganda of being allowed to be seen as supportive here by Mr. Hsiung where it is originally posted.
By your portrayal of me with this racial slur of being a pariah here to you, others could be influenced to ignore my warnings here that could save their lives and the lives of their children. This is all because Mr. Hsiung is allowing the slur to be seen as supportive and that could lead readers to think that there is a partnership where you and he are in concert to defame me here which could defame all Jews as "pariah" is a word used to defame Jews historically. This is consistent with your other uses of ancient anti-Semitic stereotypes such as you accusing me of {challenging the health of this community} which Mr. Hsiung attempts to justify your use of that phrase against my character but fails. That could also show to a subset of readers that both of you not only want to perpetuate ancient anti-Semitic hatred here, but that you are both wrong to allow lies against the Jews to be posted here with attempted justifications that tragically for the Jews, ignorant people believe. I am not a pariah nor am I trying to challenge the health of this community, nor am I an unsaved person as being a Jew according to you that Mr. Hsiung also attempts to justify what you posted here about the Jews and he fails badly to do so. And worse, he contradicts his own rules in an attempt to give you a platform to defame me here.
You can enjoy the impunity that you have from Mr. Hsiung to post messages here that decrease the respect toward me here, but the mothers that come here trying to make a decision as to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist, could be swayed to ignore me which could result in the death of their child because they can see that Mr. Hsiung allows what you post about me to be seen as it will be good in his thinking for his community as a whole to allow you to libel me here with impunity justifying it on the grounds that he has a vision that what you posted about me here will somehow be an improvement for his community. You both say the same thing about me here, I say that you are both wrong.
Lou
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 12, 2015, at 11:23:00
In reply to Re: Dogmatic pariahs » SLS, posted by Jay_OriginalOne on August 13, 2015, at 20:11:00
Awesome as always Scott! Two lines from one of my favourite songs fit well with this...what do you think?
>
> "Pariah dogs and wandering madmen
> Barking at strangers and speaking in tongues"
>
> Tee-hee...
>
> Jay?????
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 21, 2015, at 18:49:34
In reply to Lou's reply-both wrong » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2015, at 5:43:48
> > It is unfortunate that you place yourself in the position of adversary. I'm sure people would rather treat you as a colleague who dissents against the consensus. However, you refuse to work "with" people. You never communicate with others in the form of a dialogue. You prefer to remain dogmatic in your presentation. This is a shame. You are certainly intelligent enough to understand much of the material being discussed here. You just don't seem to be motivated enough to seek facts and theories beyond those that attempt to prove your thesis and agenda.
> >
> > Because you interrupt and hijack other people's threads, you have become a pariah. If you want to stimulate true discourse, I recommend that you start your own threads with descriptive subject titles. Ask for honest feedback from others that you consider honestly for yourself. The Socratic Dialogue works well. If you communicate personally with other people in a true dialogue, respect will come easily to you, and you are much more likely to effect change.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott,
> You wrote,[...Dogmatic pariahs...]
> I could be your subject person and in fact you state that. That could decrease the respect, regard and confidence n which I am held to induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. There are two important aspects of my presence here. One is to save lives and the other is to eradicate the anti-Semitic propaganda of being allowed to be seen as supportive here by Mr. Hsiung where it is originally posted.
> By your portrayal of me with this racial slur of being a pariah here to you, others could be influenced to ignore my warnings here that could save their lives and the lives of their children. This is all because Mr. Hsiung is allowing the slur to be seen as supportive and that could lead readers to think that there is a partnership where you and he are in concert to defame me here which could defame all Jews as "pariah" is a word used to defame Jews historically. This is consistent with your other uses of ancient anti-Semitic stereotypes such as you accusing me of {challenging the health of this community} which Mr. Hsiung attempts to justify your use of that phrase against my character but fails. That could also show to a subset of readers that both of you not only want to perpetuate ancient anti-Semitic hatred here, but that you are both wrong to allow lies against the Jews to be posted here with attempted justifications that tragically for the Jews, ignorant people believe. I am not a pariah nor am I trying to challenge the health of this community, nor am I an unsaved person as being a Jew according to you that Mr. Hsiung also attempts to justify what you posted here about the Jews and he fails badly to do so. And worse, he contradicts his own rules in an attempt to give you a platform to defame me here.
> You can enjoy the impunity that you have from Mr. Hsiung to post messages here that decrease the respect toward me here, but the mothers that come here trying to make a decision as to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist, could be swayed to ignore me which could result in the death of their child because they can see that Mr. Hsiung allows what you post about me to be seen as it will be good in his thinking for his community as a whole to allow you to libel me here with impunity justifying it on the grounds that he has a vision that what you posted about me here will somehow be an improvement for his community. You both say the same thing about me here, I say that you are both wrong.
> Lou
>
Friends,
Who believes what is written about me here by Scott? And to whom will the defamation against me be accepted? For the hate that can be seen against me here is the same hate from the beginning. It is hate that comers from deceit.
You see, Scott, labels me here as a "pariah". This is false, for I am not a pariah. A pariah is a terrible, is a terrible, is a terrible thing to be called. And if you believe it, you could discard what I say that IMHO could save your life and prevent life-ruining conditions and addiction. But is it much worse than that.
This is all because Mr. Hsiung doesn't act and my notifications are enforcement policy in his TOS not acted on. That deprives me of equal protection of the rules here and is an abuse of power that could stigmatize me here like discrimination does. This could induce a collective psychopathy here to ignore what I post here and allow others to post defamation against me here with impunity of Mr. Hsiung's enforcement policy in his TOS.
But even worse, you could be misled to believe that by Scott being allowed to defame me here and Mr. Hsiung allowing it, that it is being done because it will in Mr. Hsiung's thinking be good for his community as a whole. This is the same hate that you read in the morning papers and hear on the radio in Paris, in Brussles, in Mali, in Israel, and sweeping the world now as the terrorists claim that they murder because it will be good to do so. They break their own religion to murder, rape, enslave, desecrate the dead, take amphetamine drugs that lead them to commit mass-murder all claiming that they can do so with impunity because they are doing good to kill Jews and others. They say they are doing what will be good for the Caliphate.
This is nothing new, but an old way to justify hate just like to justify slavery and genocide.
I am not a pariah. I have come here to lead you to the Promised Land. The land of milk and honey. The land of peace and joy. Where there is no hate being promulgated as that it will be good for the community as a whole. This Land is not someplace that you can go to. This land in in your heart. And those that lead you to see me in a false light all with Mr. Hsiung's allowing of it, could be led to your deaths by the drugs promoted here as "medicines", as being allowed to be promoted without being in compliance with the rules of the FDA. Why would anyone want to call me a pariah and why would Mr. Hsiung allow it to be seen as supportive? Think about that before you drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 22, 2015, at 8:11:27
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-gudphor, posted by Lou Pilder on November 21, 2015, at 18:49:34
> > > It is unfortunate that you place yourself in the position of adversary. I'm sure people would rather treat you as a colleague who dissents against the consensus. However, you refuse to work "with" people. You never communicate with others in the form of a dialogue. You prefer to remain dogmatic in your presentation. This is a shame. You are certainly intelligent enough to understand much of the material being discussed here. You just don't seem to be motivated enough to seek facts and theories beyond those that attempt to prove your thesis and agenda.
> > >
> > > Because you interrupt and hijack other people's threads, you have become a pariah. If you want to stimulate true discourse, I recommend that you start your own threads with descriptive subject titles. Ask for honest feedback from others that you consider honestly for yourself. The Socratic Dialogue works well. If you communicate personally with other people in a true dialogue, respect will come easily to you, and you are much more likely to effect change.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Scott,
> > You wrote,[...Dogmatic pariahs...]
> > I could be your subject person and in fact you state that. That could decrease the respect, regard and confidence n which I am held to induce hostile and disagreeable opinions and feelings toward me. There are two important aspects of my presence here. One is to save lives and the other is to eradicate the anti-Semitic propaganda of being allowed to be seen as supportive here by Mr. Hsiung where it is originally posted.
> > By your portrayal of me with this racial slur of being a pariah here to you, others could be influenced to ignore my warnings here that could save their lives and the lives of their children. This is all because Mr. Hsiung is allowing the slur to be seen as supportive and that could lead readers to think that there is a partnership where you and he are in concert to defame me here which could defame all Jews as "pariah" is a word used to defame Jews historically. This is consistent with your other uses of ancient anti-Semitic stereotypes such as you accusing me of {challenging the health of this community} which Mr. Hsiung attempts to justify your use of that phrase against my character but fails. That could also show to a subset of readers that both of you not only want to perpetuate ancient anti-Semitic hatred here, but that you are both wrong to allow lies against the Jews to be posted here with attempted justifications that tragically for the Jews, ignorant people believe. I am not a pariah nor am I trying to challenge the health of this community, nor am I an unsaved person as being a Jew according to you that Mr. Hsiung also attempts to justify what you posted here about the Jews and he fails badly to do so. And worse, he contradicts his own rules in an attempt to give you a platform to defame me here.
> > You can enjoy the impunity that you have from Mr. Hsiung to post messages here that decrease the respect toward me here, but the mothers that come here trying to make a decision as to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist, could be swayed to ignore me which could result in the death of their child because they can see that Mr. Hsiung allows what you post about me to be seen as it will be good in his thinking for his community as a whole to allow you to libel me here with impunity justifying it on the grounds that he has a vision that what you posted about me here will somehow be an improvement for his community. You both say the same thing about me here, I say that you are both wrong.
> > Lou
> >
> Friends,
> Who believes what is written about me here by Scott? And to whom will the defamation against me be accepted? For the hate that can be seen against me here is the same hate from the beginning. It is hate that comers from deceit.
> You see, Scott, labels me here as a "pariah". This is false, for I am not a pariah. A pariah is a terrible, is a terrible, is a terrible thing to be called. And if you believe it, you could discard what I say that IMHO could save your life and prevent life-ruining conditions and addiction. But is it much worse than that.
> This is all because Mr. Hsiung doesn't act and my notifications are enforcement policy in his TOS not acted on. That deprives me of equal protection of the rules here and is an abuse of power that could stigmatize me here like discrimination does. This could induce a collective psychopathy here to ignore what I post here and allow others to post defamation against me here with impunity of Mr. Hsiung's enforcement policy in his TOS.
> But even worse, you could be misled to believe that by Scott being allowed to defame me here and Mr. Hsiung allowing it, that it is being done because it will in Mr. Hsiung's thinking be good for his community as a whole. This is the same hate that you read in the morning papers and hear on the radio in Paris, in Brussles, in Mali, in Israel, and sweeping the world now as the terrorists claim that they murder because it will be good to do so. They break their own religion to murder, rape, enslave, desecrate the dead, take amphetamine drugs that lead them to commit mass-murder all claiming that they can do so with impunity because they are doing good to kill Jews and others. They say they are doing what will be good for the Caliphate.
> This is nothing new, but an old way to justify hate just like to justify slavery and genocide.
> I am not a pariah. I have come here to lead you to the Promised Land. The land of milk and honey. The land of peace and joy. Where there is no hate being promulgated as that it will be good for the community as a whole. This Land is not someplace that you can go to. This land in in your heart. And those that lead you to see me in a false light all with Mr. Hsiung's allowing of it, could be led to your deaths by the drugs promoted here as "medicines", as being allowed to be promoted without being in compliance with the rules of the FDA. Why would anyone want to call me a pariah and why would Mr. Hsiung allow it to be seen as supportive? Think about that before you drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist.
> LouFriends,
Be not deceived. Let us look at this video:
Lou
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/syria-fighters-amphetamine
Posted by Robert_Burton on November 22, 2015, at 9:21:09
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you, posted by Lou Pilder on November 22, 2015, at 8:11:27
> > But even worse, you could be misled to believe that by Scott being allowed to defame me here and Mr. Hsiung allowing it, that it is being done because it will in Mr. Hsiung's thinking be good for his community as a whole. This is the same hate that you read in the morning papers and hear on the radio in Paris, in Brussles, in Mali, in Israel, and sweeping the world now as the terrorists claim that they murder because it will be good to do so. They break their own religion to murder, rape, enslave, desecrate the dead, take amphetamine drugs that lead them to commit mass-murder all claiming that they can do so with impunity because they are doing good to kill Jews and others. They say they are doing what will be good for the Caliphate.
> > This is nothing new, but an old way to justify hate just like to justify slavery and genocide.
> > I am not a pariah. I have come here to lead you to the Promised Land. The land of milk and honey. The land of peace and joy. Where there is no hate being promulgated as that it will be good for the community as a whole. This Land is not someplace that you can go to. This land in in your heart. And those that lead you to see me in a false light all with Mr. Hsiung's allowing of it, could be led to your deaths by the drugs promoted here as "medicines", as being allowed to be promoted without being in compliance with the rules of the FDA. Why would anyone want to call me a pariah and why would Mr. Hsiung allow it to be seen as supportive? Think about that before you drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist.
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> Be not deceived. Let us look at this video:
> Lou
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/syria-fighters-amphetamine
>Oh how dispiriting. I had gained the impression that Mr Pilder had chosen to restrict his contributions to the Admin section. But clearly he still hijaks threads here with misinformation and tentendious fear-mongering.
I am leaving the site, yet again. Lasted about one week until I received the dreaded email notifications that Mr Pilder has posted in a thread which I am interested in following.
Posted by SLS on November 22, 2015, at 9:42:36
In reply to Re: Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » Lou Pilder, posted by Robert_Burton on November 22, 2015, at 9:21:09
> Oh how dispiriting. I had gained the impression that Mr Pilder had chosen to restrict his contributions to the Admin section. But clearly he still hijaks threads here with misinformation and tentendious fear-mongering.
>
> I am leaving the site, yet again. Lasted about one week until I received the dreaded email notifications that Mr Pilder has posted in a thread which I am interested in following.Although I am dismayed to see you leave Psycho-Babble again, I truly appreciate your detailing the reasons as to why.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Robert_Burton on November 22, 2015, at 19:05:51
In reply to Re: Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » Robert_Burton, posted by SLS on November 22, 2015, at 9:42:36
>
> Although I am dismayed to see you leave Psycho-Babble again, I truly appreciate your detailing the reasons as to why.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> - ScottThanks very much, Scott. One thing I will miss are your consistently relevant, informative, and supportive posts, all backed up with well-considered and extensive knowledge and evidence. Thank you for your very helpful responses to some of my quesions. I just don't have the energy to sift through threads so as to avoid Mr Pilder's interventions. It is too draining and induces a moderate anxiety and irritability which I'd prefer not to experience. Best wishes to you, also, and I truly respect your perseverance, and the guidance you provide to so many members.
Posted by SLS on November 22, 2015, at 21:19:51
In reply to Re: Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » SLS, posted by Robert_Burton on November 22, 2015, at 19:05:51
> > Although I am dismayed to see you leave Psycho-Babble again, I truly appreciate your detailing the reasons as to why.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> Thanks very much, Scott. One thing I will miss are your consistently relevant, informative, and supportive posts, all backed up with well-considered and extensive knowledge and evidence. Thank you for your very helpful responses to some of my quesions. I just don't have the energy to sift through threads so as to avoid Mr Pilder's interventions. It is too draining and induces a moderate anxiety and irritability which I'd prefer not to experience. Best wishes to you, also, and I truly respect your perseverance, and the guidance you provide to so many members.Thank you. I need to hear that every now and then.
:-)
Hope to see you again...
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 4:28:35
In reply to Re: Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » Lou Pilder, posted by Robert_Burton on November 22, 2015, at 9:21:09
>
> > > But even worse, you could be misled to believe that by Scott being allowed to defame me here and Mr. Hsiung allowing it, that it is being done because it will in Mr. Hsiung's thinking be good for his community as a whole. This is the same hate that you read in the morning papers and hear on the radio in Paris, in Brussles, in Mali, in Israel, and sweeping the world now as the terrorists claim that they murder because it will be good to do so. They break their own religion to murder, rape, enslave, desecrate the dead, take amphetamine drugs that lead them to commit mass-murder all claiming that they can do so with impunity because they are doing good to kill Jews and others. They say they are doing what will be good for the Caliphate.
> > > This is nothing new, but an old way to justify hate just like to justify slavery and genocide.
> > > I am not a pariah. I have come here to lead you to the Promised Land. The land of milk and honey. The land of peace and joy. Where there is no hate being promulgated as that it will be good for the community as a whole. This Land is not someplace that you can go to. This land in in your heart. And those that lead you to see me in a false light all with Mr. Hsiung's allowing of it, could be led to your deaths by the drugs promoted here as "medicines", as being allowed to be promoted without being in compliance with the rules of the FDA. Why would anyone want to call me a pariah and why would Mr. Hsiung allow it to be seen as supportive? Think about that before you drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist.
> > > Lou
> >
> > Friends,
> > Be not deceived. Let us look at this video:
> > Lou
> > http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/syria-fighters-amphetamine
> >
>
> Oh how dispiriting. I had gained the impression that Mr Pilder had chosen to restrict his contributions to the Admin section. But clearly he still hijaks threads here with misinformation and tentendious fear-mongering.
>
> I am leaving the site, yet again. Lasted about one week until I received the dreaded email notifications that Mr Pilder has posted in a thread which I am interested in following.Friends,
Be not deceived. For just because the defamation against my character is being allowed to be seen as civil by Mr. Hsiung here, that does not mean that what is posted as libelous against me here is true. For Robert posts that I hijack threads with misinformation. The accusation against me is false. For posting my response here is what this forum is for, and that is not hijacking for if it was, then onw could not post a response to what is posted here. And Robert does not stipulate what the misinformation is to him. That could lead vulnerable readers here to their deaths. For they could think that my warnings about the promotion of these drugs here is misinformation when the warnings are facts in the medical literature. The drugs promoted here could cause life-ruining conditions, addiction and death and can cause to taker to want to kill themselves and/or others. This is not misinformation, but support for those parents trying to decide to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist. If they are swayed from reading here to drug their child on the basis that the defamation here against me is being allowed to be seen as being supportive by Mr. Hsiug, and their child is made to suffer a horrible death by them, by the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 5:44:00
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » Robert_Burton, posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 4:28:35
> >
> > > > But even worse, you could be misled to believe that by Scott being allowed to defame me here and Mr. Hsiung allowing it, that it is being done because it will in Mr. Hsiung's thinking be good for his community as a whole. This is the same hate that you read in the morning papers and hear on the radio in Paris, in Brussles, in Mali, in Israel, and sweeping the world now as the terrorists claim that they murder because it will be good to do so. They break their own religion to murder, rape, enslave, desecrate the dead, take amphetamine drugs that lead them to commit mass-murder all claiming that they can do so with impunity because they are doing good to kill Jews and others. They say they are doing what will be good for the Caliphate.
> > > > This is nothing new, but an old way to justify hate just like to justify slavery and genocide.
> > > > I am not a pariah. I have come here to lead you to the Promised Land. The land of milk and honey. The land of peace and joy. Where there is no hate being promulgated as that it will be good for the community as a whole. This Land is not someplace that you can go to. This land in in your heart. And those that lead you to see me in a false light all with Mr. Hsiung's allowing of it, could be led to your deaths by the drugs promoted here as "medicines", as being allowed to be promoted without being in compliance with the rules of the FDA. Why would anyone want to call me a pariah and why would Mr. Hsiung allow it to be seen as supportive? Think about that before you drug yourself or your child in collaboration with a psychiatrist.
> > > > Lou
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > Be not deceived. Let us look at this video:
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/world/syria-fighters-amphetamine
> > >
> >
> > Oh how dispiriting. I had gained the impression that Mr Pilder had chosen to restrict his contributions to the Admin section. But clearly he still hijaks threads here with misinformation and tentendious fear-mongering.
> >
> > I am leaving the site, yet again. Lasted about one week until I received the dreaded email notifications that Mr Pilder has posted in a thread which I am interested in following.
>
> Friends,
> Be not deceived. For just because the defamation against my character is being allowed to be seen as civil by Mr. Hsiung here, that does not mean that what is posted as libelous against me here is true. For Robert posts that I hijack threads with misinformation. The accusation against me is false. For posting my response here is what this forum is for, and that is not hijacking for if it was, then onw could not post a response to what is posted here. And Robert does not stipulate what the misinformation is to him. That could lead vulnerable readers here to their deaths. For they could think that my warnings about the promotion of these drugs here is misinformation when the warnings are facts in the medical literature. The drugs promoted here could cause life-ruining conditions, addiction and death and can cause to taker to want to kill themselves and/or others. This is not misinformation, but support for those parents trying to decide to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist. If they are swayed from reading here to drug their child on the basis that the defamation here against me is being allowed to be seen as being supportive by Mr. Hsiug, and their child is made to suffer a horrible death by them, by the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
> LouFriends,
Be not deceived. The FDA has rules for ads made by these drugs can not be false or misleading in any way. They can be misleading if material facts are not disclosed which could lead readers to think that these drugs are safer than they really are and result in the death or addiction or disfigurement of the takers of these drugs being promoted here. The benefits and the risks of ads for these drugs have to be presented in a balanced fashion by the FDA rules. In fact, print ads must include all of the risks from the drugs. That is not done here which I think is a terrible, is a terrible, is a terrible thing to do.
You see, this site is chaired by a psychiatrist that allows promotion of mind-altering drugs that cause over 40,000 deaths each year. And worse, some doctors say 500,000 are killed each year by these drugs. The figures that I have show that many more than that are killed and worse, that many more have life-ruining conditions and addiction from the drugs and are in a living death from the drugs as can be seen by posters here wanting to kill themselves and posters tell them to take more drugs which can compound their misery and suffering to the point that they kill themselves.
The FDA rules for promoting these drugs are not being complied with here. I do not know why that is. I guess one could surmise that, lets say, if Scott tells you that such and such a drug hits the xyz receptor, that may be true. But what happens to the rest of the body even if the drug hits that receptor? This is where when a claim is made, all the risks and benefits have to be posted in a balanced fashion according to FDA rules. And if not, death could happen by the readers thinking that the drug is safer than it really is because the risks are left out. In particular the risk of suicide ideation that can be induced by the drug.(the black-box warning).
I guess psychiatry has taken the position that the promotion of these drugs in sites like this is not {advertising} the drug. Really? It is IMO a tremendous advertisement for these drugs here because they are promoted as medicines chaired by a doctor. That can be one great advertisement for these drugs free to the drug-makers, but not free to those that are misled to take the drugs, for it could cost them their lives.
Lou
Posted by Robert_Burton on November 23, 2015, at 6:08:16
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you » Robert_Burton, posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 4:28:35
> Be not deceived. For just because the defamation against my character is being allowed to be seen as civil by Mr. Hsiung here, that does not mean that what is posted as libelous against me here is true. For Robert posts that I hijack threads with misinformation. The accusation against me is false. For posting my response here is what this forum is for, and that is not hijacking for if it was, then onw could not post a response to what is posted here. And Robert does not stipulate what the misinformation is to him. That could lead vulnerable readers here to their deaths. For they could think that my warnings about the promotion of these drugs here is misinformation when the warnings are facts in the medical literature. The drugs promoted here could cause life-ruining conditions, addiction and death and can cause to taker to want to kill themselves and/or others. This is not misinformation, but support for those parents trying to decide to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist. If they are swayed from reading here to drug their child on the basis that the defamation here against me is being allowed to be seen as being supportive by Mr. Hsiug, and their child is made to suffer a horrible death by them, by the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
> LouYou, Mr Pilder, strike me as a narcissist with a persecution complex. You are, in your current state, incapable of entering into reasonable dialogue, and you seem to prefer to bully and frighten than to reason. One would hope you would seek appropriate medical treatment yourself.
Defamation is not actionable if the putative imputation is true and/or the imputation is made in the public interest. Nor, more fundamentally, can an internet pseudonym be defamed! Internet pseudonyms do not have reputations which are liable to damage in the sense that those of natural persons can be. Again, you betray your utter ignorance in asserting otherwise.
And precisely what body of defamation law do you invoke? The law as settled in the jurisidiction in which I reside? The law where you reside? The law where the site's servers are located?
And have you considered superior laws which might supervene on the application of defamation law, even if it can be invoked successfully? For instance, constitutional law?
You ought to take some time and have a good hard look at yourself and your conduct.
You are often a menacing and anxiety-inducing member here, and you clearly have not the slightest degree of remorse or even concern for the negative effect you can have on others here who wish to participate reasonably and conscientiously.
If your interventions and so-called "warnings" were very infrequent, then they would be tolerable. But you insist on issuing them - as if you have some special prerogative to do so - whenever you have the chance, which given the largely unmoderated nature of this forum, is often. Your scare-mongering is a species of gross incivility, as are your intrusive "warnings" in threads whose specific subject-matter you make little or no effort to understand and engage with at all. Such indifference and self-centredness is an odious discourtesy to the original poster and those members who seek to contribute relevantly with that poster's concerns at the forefront of their minds.
I find your conduct close to inexcusable, and your total lack of any contrition loathsome.
This is my final post and you will, I suspect, therefore congratulate yourself for the success of your harassment in ostracising yet another member who had the effrontery to question the objective merits of your contributions to this site.
Posted by SLS on November 23, 2015, at 7:53:28
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-what can happen to you, posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 5:44:00
Everything.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 8:18:29
In reply to Re: Lou - Vexatious, Disconcerting, + Distressing » Lou Pilder, posted by Robert_Burton on November 23, 2015, at 6:08:16
> > Be not deceived. For just because the defamation against my character is being allowed to be seen as civil by Mr. Hsiung here, that does not mean that what is posted as libelous against me here is true. For Robert posts that I hijack threads with misinformation. The accusation against me is false. For posting my response here is what this forum is for, and that is not hijacking for if it was, then onw could not post a response to what is posted here. And Robert does not stipulate what the misinformation is to him. That could lead vulnerable readers here to their deaths. For they could think that my warnings about the promotion of these drugs here is misinformation when the warnings are facts in the medical literature. The drugs promoted here could cause life-ruining conditions, addiction and death and can cause to taker to want to kill themselves and/or others. This is not misinformation, but support for those parents trying to decide to drug their child or not in collaboration with a psychiatrist. If they are swayed from reading here to drug their child on the basis that the defamation here against me is being allowed to be seen as being supportive by Mr. Hsiug, and their child is made to suffer a horrible death by them, by the drugs, their blood will not be upon me.
> > Lou
>
> You, Mr Pilder, strike me as a narcissist with a persecution complex. You are, in your current state, incapable of entering into reasonable dialogue, and you seem to prefer to bully and frighten than to reason. One would hope you would seek appropriate medical treatment yourself.
>
> Defamation is not actionable if the putative imputation is true and/or the imputation is made in the public interest. Nor, more fundamentally, can an internet pseudonym be defamed! Internet pseudonyms do not have reputations which are liable to damage in the sense that those of natural persons can be. Again, you betray your utter ignorance in asserting otherwise.
>
> And precisely what body of defamation law do you invoke? The law as settled in the jurisidiction in which I reside? The law where you reside? The law where the site's servers are located?
>
> And have you considered superior laws which might supervene on the application of defamation law, even if it can be invoked successfully? For instance, constitutional law?
>
> You ought to take some time and have a good hard look at yourself and your conduct.
>
> You are often a menacing and anxiety-inducing member here, and you clearly have not the slightest degree of remorse or even concern for the negative effect you can have on others here who wish to participate reasonably and conscientiously.
>
> If your interventions and so-called "warnings" were very infrequent, then they would be tolerable. But you insist on issuing them - as if you have some special prerogative to do so - whenever you have the chance, which given the largely unmoderated nature of this forum, is often. Your scare-mongering is a species of gross incivility, as are your intrusive "warnings" in threads whose specific subject-matter you make little or no effort to understand and engage with at all. Such indifference and self-centredness is an odious discourtesy to the original poster and those members who seek to contribute relevantly with that poster's concerns at the forefront of their minds.
>
> I find your conduct close to inexcusable, and your total lack of any contrition loathsome.
>
> This is my final post and you will, I suspect, therefore congratulate yourself for the success of your harassment in ostracising yet another member who had the effrontery to question the objective merits of your contributions to this site.
>
Friends,
Why do these people post hateful defamation here against me and why does Mr. Hsiung allow it? Let us look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OQ6jSWfNxc
Posted by elanor roosevelt on November 23, 2015, at 22:47:26
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-why do the people rage? » Robert_Burton, posted by Lou Pilder on November 23, 2015, at 8:18:29
Lou
go away
Go forward in thread:
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