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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:25:18
i get a pretty severe startle / orienting response to people noises. laughter is worst. yelling / talking. even whispering. tapping. scuffling / dragging feet. pushing squeaky trolleys and banging books about. anything other than people obviously making a conscious effort to be totally f*ck*ng silent noises. and those are mildly annoying, but at least they don't produce a startle / orienting response.
it takes me a couple minutes to figure out where i'm up to and properly focus on what i'm reading / writing. every startle / orienting takes a couple minutes to recover from. i feel like i'm spending more time being assaulted by other peoples noises and recovering from that than i am successfully engaging with my work.
(of course that is an illusion, but i do feel angry that i'm not able to get lost in my work because some other people are incapable of not making noise).
i've never lacked a space that was reliably silent for me to work in. the couple of professors i've mentioned it to... have looked at me in horror when i said about having to work in the university library... they said they couldn't do it either. and then of course my not having reliable quiet at home.
how do undergrads do it? i don't understand what i'm supposed to do next year...
only solution i can see for now is to take the 2am -8am timeslot. when everyone else is asleep. then suffer the napping / startle-orienting through the day...
i don't think this is normal...
might there be a medication that can help with this?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:26:16
In reply to hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:25:18
actually i do recall i used a little meth in the push to get my last thesis out... maybe i have ADHD...
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:32:24
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:26:16
I think it is as much about vibration as about noise.
If I put my fingers in my ears... Like... Push all the air out and really get my finger in there and then pull it out a little to make a vaccum seal... Then that is best-est.
But I can't do that and type at the same time. And my ears are feeling raw from that..
Are there any ear plugs that do that?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:34:45
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:32:24
I think I'm over the city.
You can have it back now, thanks. I don't like the noise it makes.
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 7:34:46
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:26:16
I have used noise canceling headphones (not earbuds) turned on but not attached to any device, and it's helped me a great deal. My noise sensitivity is awful when I have a migraine attack, but generally when my anxiety is high I can't tell up from down, my attention can be so scattered.
If you connect the headphones to a iPod or something like that, the illusion is complete.
I don't know of any medical solution.
PC
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:35:58
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 7:34:46
the problem with an i-pod is that...
the i-pod makes noise.
i actually need silence. no noise. you know that noise you get when there is no noise? the staticky noise of no noise? i need that.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:38:52
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:35:58
i wasn't sure about the noise cancelling earphones...
i thought they detected constant levels of noise. so... airplane engines. or trains. where the noise is constant. then it can emit whatever frequency to cancel it out.
but take a person suddenly bursting out laughing. or suddenly yelling. i don't see how the device can predict that in order to emit the frequency that would cancel that.
i've heard those static noises... like the tv used to sound like... trying to mimic the sound of silence... but it isn't the sound of silence. it is the sound of static noise.
i need something to keep the noise out.
actually... what i need.... is a big f*ck*ng fence to keep the rowdy bastards out.
kind of like... a staff only swipe card.
or a proper house or apartment (depending) to myself.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:39:23
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:38:52
welding earmuffs. maybe i need something like that. i dno't know.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:40:35
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 7:34:46
i'm sorry. i need to sleep now.
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 8:04:08
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » Partlycloudy, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:40:35
> i'm sorry. i need to sleep now.
>
>
S'OK. I meant wearing the headphones, which are powered, turned on, plugged into an iPad, which is turned off.
Works very well.
Good night, Alex.
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2013, at 9:57:36
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 8:04:08
Startle reflex have always had this. Not in response to noise but to anything that is scary too. Like the car almost hitting another. Also noise when don't expect it? Phillipa
Posted by europerep on September 18, 2013, at 11:09:34
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:39:23
> welding earmuffs. maybe i need something like that. i dno't know.
I once saw a girl with those in the library. Admittedly, my first thought was that she was crazy, but if it works for her, who cares what I think.
Posted by b2chica on September 18, 2013, at 13:39:57
In reply to hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:25:18
hyperacusis
this could be from numerous things: neurological disorder, some rx meds cause this, ADD/ADHD, illicit drugs, even PTSD.
mine is pretty rough, but i found that between my ADD meds and anti-axiety meds and my iPod i can function perfectly.
i tend to use Excellent Circumaural headphones for best results, but good earbuds such as etymotics work well too.
i Do use iPod but use music that drones outsometimes just simple brown noise. some like other types of noise, thats just my preference.if you need no noise, that is extremely hard to obtain other than in a sound booth. seriously, there are so many sounds (that i am attentive to that drive me insane. thus the iPod with OTHER noise distracts from the annoying day to day sounds.
and depending on how sensitive you are. if you have headphones plugged into ANY electronic device (on or off) you will still get noise. its they way electricity travels regardless if the switch is off or on.
ps -that noise Drives Me Bonkers!best wishes
b2
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 15:35:26
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by Partlycloudy on September 18, 2013, at 8:04:08
> > i'm sorry. i need to sleep now.
> S'OK. I meant wearing the headphones, which are powered, turned on, plugged into an iPad, which is turned off.
ah. i see what you mean. i'm sorry. i got over tired (and amped on coffee). it will take a while to adjust to a new sleep-wake schedule.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 15:45:41
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » Partlycloudy, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2013, at 9:57:36
> Startle reflex have always had this. Not in response to noise but to anything that is scary too. Like the car almost hitting another. Also noise when don't expect it? Phillipa
yes. i think it is a startle reflex. the bus went under an overbridge the other day and a torrent of water run off hit the windscreen. i was sitting a few seats back from the front but noticed i was the only one to blink / flinch. i think that my threshold is too low - i get triggered by the lightest stimuli. and my response is too intense - it will take my heart rate longer to return to baseline etc.
i've always been a bit touchy... but i swear that things have escalated a lot since i quit smoking. i thought it would pass in time... but i don't think it has passed. only... i can't tell how much of it is due to my environmental change that happened around the same time...
thinking... i had the house to myself... or i had a self contained room out the back of a house (detached) to myself... or i had an office in a quiet hallway... or i lived in a hall of residence with a 'zero tolerance to noise policy'... in all of those places i simply didn't hear people talking or yelling... here... i think i'm going crazy... but then i do have the odd occasion when i can't hear anyone talking. and i feel... happy. my mood lifts. i can think undisturbed. when people go away from where i'm living (or get out the house during the day) so it is empty and people only come calling 'yoo hoo anybody home!' running up and down the hallways maybe 3 times instead of the usual 9 or 10 i'm in heaven.
but that is gone now. and there it is.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 15:49:06
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by europerep on September 18, 2013, at 11:09:34
> > welding earmuffs. maybe i need something like that. i dno't know.
> I once saw a girl with those in the library. Admittedly, my first thought was that she was crazy, but if it works for her, who cares what I think.ah. i don't care too much what people think. i'm sure people stare at me for ramming my fingers in my ears, too.
if i cared too much about what other people thought... i don't suspect i'd have a problem, really. i could go to the library and pretend to work but really spend my time rustling papers, tapping the desk, smiling and giggling and flirting with any individual i can possibly lure to pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! like... a lot of undergraduates seem to. and then wonder 'why don't i do better i spend so much time pretending to study, i don't understand'
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 16:00:40
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise, posted by b2chica on September 18, 2013, at 13:39:57
> hyperacusis
> this could be from numerous things: neurological disorder, some rx meds cause this, ADD/ADHD, illicit drugs, even PTSD.
> mine is pretty rough, but i found that between my ADD meds and anti-axiety meds and my iPod i can function perfectly.hmm. i do use my i-pod for some things. i can't function optimally with that, though. i need total silence. or... i can't do that anymore. i don't have the ability.
i used to get silence so i don't feel that my need is unrealistic... but maybe it is... it has been since arriving back in this country that i've had problems. i quit smoking around then... but i feel like most people in this country simply don't know how to shut up. i can get silence here if the people go out or go to sleep. it seems that it is otherwise impossible, though. they simply don't do quiet activities like reading or writing or listening to tv or music by themselves / with earphones. the library is full of people who are just following their friends because they are bored and live too far out to go home...
I...on the one hand maybe i could profit from medication.
on the other hand that would involve my trusting a doctor here to be competent.
i have no such trust.
past experience...
gives me no reason.
i would be scared that they would drug me into a stupor.
believe it was their social duty, even.
like drugging me into a stupor for several weeks then turfing me out the morning of an afternoon exam.
deja vu...
Posted by europerep on September 18, 2013, at 16:03:38
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » europerep, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 15:49:06
> > > welding earmuffs. maybe i need something like that. i dno't know.
>
> > I once saw a girl with those in the library. Admittedly, my first thought was that she was crazy, but if it works for her, who cares what I think.
>
> ah. i don't care too much what people think. i'm sure people stare at me for ramming my fingers in my ears, too.
>
> if i cared too much about what other people thought... i don't suspect i'd have a problem, really. i could go to the library and pretend to work but really spend my time rustling papers, tapping the desk, smiling and giggling and flirting with any individual i can possibly lure to pay attention to me! pay attention to me! pay attention to me! like... a lot of undergraduates seem to. and then wonder 'why don't i do better i spend so much time pretending to study, i don't understand'
>Hmm, you know, I've been coming across posts of yours every now and then, here and especially on the social forum, and I usually read them without intervening or replying... but I was just gonna say, you usually write some pretty good stuff. I mean, not as in literature type of good, but as in smart stuff that makes sense and shows you're a pretty good observer of yourself and of others. This library thing here is a good example.
So, yeah, I was just gonna say that. I'm relatively sure you're a pretty cool person in real life. I'm not sure what a compliment on an anonymous internet forum for crazy people is worth, but I decided to say it nonetheless. ;)
I hope you find a solution to this noise problem. If you have to use a welding earmuff, why not do it, but the idea with noise-canceling headphones that PC made is probably worth a try as well.
Posted by SLS on September 18, 2013, at 16:37:22
In reply to hypersensitive to noise, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 7:25:18
Would propranolol mitigate the startle-response?
- Scott
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 19:15:28
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by europerep on September 18, 2013, at 16:03:38
thank you.
the library thing is hard. i suspect it is a case of the tragedy of the commons. one individual doesn't need to study better in order to do better since grades are assigned according to a distribution. the most viable strategy for some individuals could well be to interrupt the study of others.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 19:18:09
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on September 18, 2013, at 16:37:22
> Would propranolol mitigate the startle-response?
>
>
> - Scotti don't know. but that is a really good idea. low risk, worth a shot. i thought i might have had some, actually, as my aussie doc gave me some to help me deal with public speaking. but i never tried it...
i'll try and see about a doc on monday...
Posted by sigismund on September 18, 2013, at 21:55:36
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » europerep, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 15:49:06
>if i cared too much about what other people thought... i don't suspect i'd have a problem, really
Krishnamurti once said to the attending theosophists 'You know what my secret is? I don't care what happens.'
Can easily be misunderstood of course.
Posted by europerep on September 19, 2013, at 14:46:13
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » europerep, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2013, at 19:15:28
> thank you.
>
> the library thing is hard. i suspect it is a case of the tragedy of the commons. one individual doesn't need to study better in order to do better since grades are assigned according to a distribution. the most viable strategy for some individuals could well be to interrupt the study of others.
>Haha, well, in that case you have a double obligation to solve the problem, not just for yourself, but for also for the net benefit that thwarting their strategy would bring to society.
It's funny though, for me it's exactly the opposite, I need noise in order to study. Of course by that I don't mean "real", sledgehammer-type noise, but the kind of background noise that you have in a university library. I need to always have a sense of what's happening around me, and noise is very helpful for that. I think it's in part a remnant of my former anxiety disorder that makes that I always need to be aware of everything, just in case a hungry lion, or a serial killer, is sneaking up on me.
More on topic though, I would personally be wary of medicalizing this issue and taking drugs for it. I mean, if it's only an issue when you have to really concentrate - as opposed to causing you difficulty and loss of quality of life across different activities and situations - I would at least try "physical" solutions first.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2013, at 4:47:01
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by europerep on September 19, 2013, at 14:46:13
> Haha, well, in that case you have a double obligation to solve the problem, not just for yourself, but for also for the net benefit that thwarting their strategy would bring to society.
to the university, yes. there is another institution, just across the bridge, where they can go to feel at home.
there is also an 'information commons' just across the road i discovered today.
aptly named ahahahaha. all set up with group work desks and i swear i have never heard anything like it... there they were... informing each other... about everything they think they know, no doubt.
right on top of it is (what used to be known as) 'desk reserve'. a space for a high demand collection, basically (currently assigned textbooks). you can only leave the area (so you can take it downstairs and sit on it with your colony, one can only suppose) for 2 hours. but... you can sit with it in that area for as long as you like, apparently. i guess the high demand books are really... not very high demand. for that system to work. or perhaps the infuriatingly noisy librarian is what makes that system viable...
it is good that we aren't all the same. it protects against environmental shift. i don't do well in their environment and they don't do well in mine.
it is good that not every girl wants to be a ballerina. the world couldn't support that many ballerina's.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 20, 2013, at 4:55:29
In reply to Re: hypersensitive to noise » alexandra_k, posted by europerep on September 19, 2013, at 14:46:13
> It's funny though, for me it's exactly the opposite, I need noise in order to study. Of course by that I don't mean "real", sledgehammer-type noise, but the kind of background noise that you have in a university library. I need to always have a sense of what's happening around me, and noise is very helpful for that. I think it's in part a remnant of my former anxiety disorder that makes that I always need to be aware of everything, just in case a hungry lion, or a serial killer, is sneaking up on me.
That is funny.
There are parts of studying with people around that I like. Sometimes when I become aware that things are quiet and other people are... Productively studying. We all are. Co-ordinated action. There is something about that that is good. I feel that. That is why it is so infuriating when people wreck the environment. I get this in cafes when people aren't studying. Sometimes people are having conversations and it is a background hum... I can be quite productive and tune it all out.
Today I got some better insight. There is this crazy 'no coffee in the library' rule so I was in the cafe by the library outside... Getting a bit done... Then this group comes along. There was one guy... Who seemed to have a natural inclination to speak loudly in a slightly panicked tone (like everyone would speak over him if he didn't speak up and speak quickly). But the people he was with were more laid back. Gentler. Hard to describe. Anyway... He vacillated in his manner. And I vacillated in my response... From him not being a problem to his being really freaking annoying.
I think I smell insecurity / panic / fear or something. The laughter of the people here... It has a hysterical / panicked edge to it. That is what I'm detecting.
Like...
A bird has a special frequency of their call for predation threat.
Can you hear it?
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