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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 12:40:49
Well I have to be honest that I am not a regular user of this substance but when I am given a chance to use it, I will take action. Now, I need to talk about how my mind works. Lately I have been in mental darkness, meaning that I have no excitement at all and it feels vary much that I am frozen in my thoughts and cannot move to express them without having a mood altering to cause me to come to life. I live vary much like a primative human, I don't have any sophisicated style of living and I rarely have the motivation to research on the spiritual relm, which is one of my main intrests.
I feel I can't even come to life, my dopamine and noradrenaline is vary low...and I have already tried caffeine and it just makes me irrtible and less intrested because I feel awful. Alcohol will have about 15-30 of release and then will cause depression to sink into a trench..much lower than the depression I expierience with no substance at all. Cannabis causes me to go into derealization and causes me to panic because I have lost reality, when basically cannabis is suppost to calm the normal person down, it has diffrent effects that cause painful memories to arise.
And lastly the main drug I am going to discuss about Methamphetamine and its effects on me. When It entered my system a couple days I felt this rush with the most enhanced mental clarity that I have ever expierienced, I could reference my thoughts easily and came out of my frozen state of mind and talked much more, and felt release from the depression that I have expienced for years. Now as time went by, the high dopamine levels that it causes me to be obessed with having sex, and makes my mellow, timid personality leave and turn into a determined person to get what I want. After about 3-4 hours had passed my mind started trying to reach the spiritual world because I had to be home vary soon, and I was in alot of trouble with alot of people I know. And of course, Lucifer started speaking to trust him to get me out of this mess. Now...I know this sounds vary much like a psychological delusion to hear from other sides of reality, and personally I vary much believe that its an alter ego that the mind will create to have a conversation with. Still the amount of accuracy of events happening, and the sense of the presence..but needless to say after the methamphetamine wore off all this connection with spirutal worlds ended. I sit and stay in this boring state of mind, only slowly comprehending reality of this earth...and have to deal with depression.But my point is, ... I function much better on stimulants and no one will listen and understand my point of view, they always accuse me of being a drug addict and I stay in this sack of gloom with no hope. Yes, I have a tendency to take more to get a effect that will give me the ability to study and function like I want, but all the choices I had with dexedrine and adderall I ruined them. Now, if my mother was not here, I could vary well still be on them because she informed the doctors that I was abusing them badly, and that is what caused all this to collapse into horrible consequences. I want contact the spirit world again, with or without a substance to get that feeling of being protected and channelled information. The problem is that I have a dependent mind and rely on others for help and when I do try to take things into my own hands, I usally do it backwards and screw it up and become vary disorganized. My reality is based on having someone to assist me, but that puts me into a position of being mentally handicapped relying on someone to solve my difficult problems, and staying in isolation because I feel I will not humilated in public for my mental defciets. I usally mask them and think fast to make sarcastic comments about the situation. I can't make contact with people that I need to call because I know I will lack mental motivation to keep up with a conversation in need of assistnace because I know that people are going to be concerned for a period of time but It will leave. Its all in the art of conversation and having a relationship with someone to make it last. My pessismism is created from own defiecits to maintain relationships, I run away from people and then wonder why I am so lonely...It's vary simple its my choices that I was not aware of the consequences that would come.
I rest it at this...feel free to read but I am responsible for my own life.
Posted by ron1953 on April 30, 2012, at 13:43:57
In reply to How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 12:40:49
One of the really effed-up things about psych meds is that ALL of them aren't in play. Technically, all of them are controlled substances, either totally illegal (i.e. black market) or controlled by licensed docs. As for the licensed drugs, some, like amphetamines, have come into general disfavor for reasons that seem unclear. So, some docs are more than happy to dispense some possibly dangerous and/or addictive drugs, yet not others. And the illegal ones aren't even on the table for discussion. I liked amphetamines, too, although I recognized the long-term danger of big-time addiction for myself, because I felt so friggin good when I took them (especially meth). Long-term use of prescribed Dex was good, until the inevitable poop-out associated with the long-term use of many drugs, as well as some other problems (daily roller coaster up uppers to cope, and downers to sleep).
But I know how you feel - MY drug of choice would be pot, except that the war on drugs makes it illegal (with the threat of jail, etc.) and expensive (black market), the reasons I only get high occasionally (usually when friends offer). Otherwise, I could just grow it in my backyard.
Posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 18:14:50
In reply to How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 12:40:49
This is sad that your are using methamphetamine.
Methamphetamine like other stimulants depleats dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin.
Meth makes everybody feel good. You are no exception. It will rot holes in your brain.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2012, at 18:17:15
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 18:14:50
Stop taking it or using it or will write your Mom Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 19:03:01
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 18:14:50
> Methamphetamine like other stimulants depleats dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin.
Since we are on the subject, what serotonergic properties does d-amphetamine possess? It was reported recently by Dr. Ken Gillman of the Psychotropical Research website that amphetamine could cause serotonin syndrome when combined with a MAOI. I never heard of this.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 20:54:00
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine » linkadge, posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 19:03:01
The amphetamines reverse the transport of serotonin norepinephrine and dopamine - effectively causing both reuptake inhibition and release.
They can cause serotonin syndrome in combination with MAOIs.
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 22:01:58
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 20:54:00
That's strange, there was a poster here that took Adderall XR and Parnate, I should of asked..yea I was like that doesnt sound right
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 22:12:01
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine » rjlockhart04-08, posted by ron1953 on April 30, 2012, at 13:43:57
Yea...its a release to get away from reality once and while yet when it becomes nessasary to produce this everyday and vary expensive from the black market, seriously the blackmarket is the most biggest money intrest to get gain and it becomes a problem that will alter both financial and chemcial balance in an individuel. Of course if you need something bad enough, that's the benefit of it being there. Anyways it's vary hard to comply with everyday things without having an everday mind...I have to force myself to do things I hate...anyways thanks.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 22:23:00
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 18:14:50
And that's vary sad you have that view of me, get over it...this is a widespread thing alot of people do, and have the same substance in their systems when either they are studying for a final, or needing it to get them going.. The only diffrence is how the person is obtaining it, either through a doctor or joe blow's house of pleasure. The doctor has their own views on their use of medication, and that is how they will use their intellict, usally you have to get on the same state of view as they are to work with them. I'm not trying to be insultive but it really pisses me off when I have been humilated for my beliefs because of circumstances that no one will understand, until its too late...
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 22:39:02
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by linkadge on April 30, 2012, at 20:54:00
> The amphetamines reverse the transport of serotonin norepinephrine and dopamine - effectively causing both reuptake inhibition and release.
>
> They can cause serotonin syndrome in combination with MAOIs.I know that methamphetamine is a potent serotonin releaser, but what about d-amphetamine?
I have been on Parnate 120 mg and added 40 mg of Dexedrine. I was also taking desipramine at the time. I have also added Dexedrine to Nardil 90 mg while also taking nortriptyline. Maybe I just got lucky, but these combinations have been considered safe for many years.
- Scott
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 23:09:42
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by Phillipa on April 30, 2012, at 18:17:15
yes, I have stopped, I'm listening to vary dark music to ease some feelings, I don't like to hear sunshine music when I feel this state of mind...I just wished that God or Lucifer would just take over my body and let them do all the dirty work and of course that will never happen unless I expand more into the spirit relm, people have told me to leave and I really loathe not having the aggressive social ettiqutte to reenter and socialize normally with people without having to take a substance.
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 23:12:26
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine » linkadge, posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 19:03:01
that is one combination that I could never understand...really, I mean its great combination seriously...but I don't ever seeing any kind of doctor doing this for me...usally the ones that are more advanced maybe...yea..
Posted by creepy on May 1, 2012, at 7:23:41
In reply to How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 12:40:49
meth bought on the street is not a pure drug. Makes for a great way to fry your brain. Even prescription desoxyn is probably bad over the long haul. But its a lot safer than street drugs for sure.
Question is.. could you take a prescription stim at a given dose and remain at that dose even when tolerance set in?
Posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on May 1, 2012, at 9:27:22
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine » linkadge, posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 22:39:02
> > The amphetamines reverse the transport of serotonin norepinephrine and dopamine - effectively causing both reuptake inhibition and release.
> >
> > They can cause serotonin syndrome in combination with MAOIs.
>
> I know that methamphetamine is a potent serotonin releaser, but what about d-amphetamine?
>
> I have been on Parnate 120 mg and added 40 mg of Dexedrine. I was also taking desipramine at the time. I have also added Dexedrine to Nardil 90 mg while also taking nortriptyline. Maybe I just got lucky, but these combinations have been considered safe for many years.
>
>
> - ScottDoesn't Parnate partially convert to amphetamine as a metabolite?
Jay
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2012, at 9:56:48
In reply to Re: methamphetamine + Parnate » SLS, posted by Shes_Initforthemoney on May 1, 2012, at 9:27:22
> > > The amphetamines reverse the transport of serotonin norepinephrine and dopamine - effectively causing both reuptake inhibition and release.
> > >
> > > They can cause serotonin syndrome in combination with MAOIs.
> >
> > I know that methamphetamine is a potent serotonin releaser, but what about d-amphetamine?
> >
> > I have been on Parnate 120 mg and added 40 mg of Dexedrine. I was also taking desipramine at the time. I have also added Dexedrine to Nardil 90 mg while also taking nortriptyline. Maybe I just got lucky, but these combinations have been considered safe for many years.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Doesn't Parnate partially convert to amphetamine as a metabolite?
>
> Jay
This has been the subject of debate for over 40 years. Most believe that there are no amphetamine metabolites of Parnate. However, one study of a person who overdosed on Parnate showed amphetamine in their blood stream.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=tranylcypromine%20amphetamine%20overdose
- Scott
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on May 1, 2012, at 13:18:20
In reply to Re: How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by creepy on May 1, 2012, at 7:23:41
could you take a prescription stim at a given dose and remain at that dose even when tolerance set in?
Well, yea...of course, that's what Im doing with my currenlt meds right now like Prozac and Nuvigil they don't have any effect on me. Of course If was taking a real stimulant at given dose...I just have a tendency to find the most optimium effect it will give me. And I can't put it to any other words...many people maybe have this same thinking but I have been labeled a substance abuser and a drug addict too. You have to move and get away from all those bad labels.
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 16:58:35
In reply to Re: link, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 22:23:00
>this is a widespread thing alot of people do, >and have the same substance in their systems >when either they are studying for a final, or >needing it to get them going.
Oh sorry, I didn't realize a lot of people were doing it. I guess its ok then.
My appoligies,
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 17:02:57
In reply to Re: creepy, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on May 1, 2012, at 13:18:20
I do believe d-amphetamine has effects on serotonin like meth. Not sure why it has been combined with parnate.
MAOIs have been combined safely with even SSRIs in some cases. I wonder if treatment resistance produces resistance to serotonin syndrome?
Linkadge
Posted by rjlockhart04-08 on May 2, 2012, at 0:55:02
In reply to Re: creepy, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 17:02:57
People do it all the time...I have deal with my consequences and exposing it to the truth, I have posted basically my life here on dr-bob. Give or leave it...I am not trying to be offensive but I have had to deal with alot of skeptism from people and im trying to convey a point that this is a act to achieve a balance that I do not have..im still in the process of working with a vary difficult doctor. If methamphetamine was used daily, and at high amounts yes, it would be nuerotoxic and it would begin to deterate the brain because its like stepping on the gas on car and running it down until the engine fades and eventually does not work anymore.
Posted by SLS on May 2, 2012, at 5:59:16
In reply to Re: creepy, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 17:02:57
> MAOIs have been combined safely with even SSRIs in some cases.
I have seen this reported for the reversible moclobemide - Joffe; Bakish - but not for the irreversibles Parnate and Nardil. MAOIs are weird. They are unpredictable with respect to drug and food interactions. Therefore, I wouldn't dismiss any reports of such a combination.
> I wonder if treatment resistance produces resistance to serotonin syndrome?
That's an interesting idea. For me, however, this is not the case.
One day, in great desperation, I took a very small (approximately 6.25 mg) test dose of Effexor while in the midst of Parnate treatment at 80 mg. I wanted to test for serotonin syndrome. I chose Effexor because of its relatively short half life. Within an hour of dosing, I developed the classic symptoms of SS, including muscle rigidity and an incoherent altered state. My parents said that I was saying things that were unintelligible. As I was just beginning to come out of it, I asked that they take my temperature. It was elevated by 1.5°F. That is not very much, but certainly unusual for me. I can only imagine what would have happened had I taken the whole 75 mg tablet of Effexor.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 2, 2012, at 6:04:27
In reply to Re: creepy, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 17:02:57
Hi Linkadge.
> I do believe d-amphetamine has effects on serotonin like meth. Not sure why it has been combined with parnate.
I am still baffled as to why I never heard of d-amphetamine being serotonergic. I can't find anything on Medline Pubmed indicating this. In any event, I never reacted badly to adding Dexedrine to either Parnate or Nardil in dosages of at least 20 mg. More recently, I added Adderal to Nardil without sequalae.
This is an important issue. Some doctors have been combining MAOIs and d-amphetamine for years. If you can find something definitive on this point, I would be grateful. I found paraphrasing on Google, but no references to scientific literature.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 2, 2012, at 7:05:49
In reply to Re: creepy, posted by linkadge on May 1, 2012, at 17:02:57
Hi Linkadge.
All in all, most of the literature I found states that amphetamine releases serotonin. You were right (as usual).
I found some referenced literature on Wiki indicating serotonin release is a property of d-amphetamine. Unfortunately, the conclusions reached in these investigations rely upon inferences based on indirect in vivo observations using pharmacological probes rather than direct in vitro measurements using synaptosomes.
The following study is interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21615721
It reported actual measurements of serotonin concentrations in response to different drugs. Amphetamine was the weakest at increasing extracellular serotonin. This is not an insignificant finding. However, again, it is an in vivo measurement. It is possible that this measurement represents an indirect increase of serotonin activity resulting from negative feedback loops that are wired to attenuate hyperlocomotion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15545015
Obviously, I am cherry-picking.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 2, 2012, at 7:17:03
In reply to How my mind works and methamphetamine, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on April 30, 2012, at 12:40:49
I agree with Linkadge.
It is an established fact that methamphetamine is highly neurotoxic and irreversibly damages dopaminergic AND serotonergic brain cells. This leads to both neurological and psychiatric abnormalities.
I am sad.
- Scott
Posted by herpills on May 2, 2012, at 14:47:33
In reply to Re: link, posted by rjlockhart04-08 on May 2, 2012, at 0:55:02
> im still in the process of working with a vary difficult doctor.
You've mentioned this before that you don't have a good doctor or good relationship with your doctor. In my opinion you really aren't going to make progress if this is the kind of situation you have with your doctor. What are your options for finding a new doc? Is this pdoc private practice? Is there a community mental health clinic you could go to? herpills
Posted by linkadge on May 2, 2012, at 16:17:23
In reply to Re: link » rjlockhart04-08, posted by herpills on May 2, 2012, at 14:47:33
If somebody has a problem with meth, I am very sympathetic. However, I'm not as sympathetic when somebody refuses to see it as a problem.
A lot of people with drug problems try and justify it by saying that "everybody does it".
If everybody jumped off a cliff that wouldn't make it a good idea.
Linkadge
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