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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 317. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 7:31:53
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 7:22:45
> I am trying to point out to you what appears to me as an irrational mode of decision-making.
TRD is irrational.
Thank you for your well-wishes.
- Scott
Posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 8:37:52
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » europerep, posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 7:31:53
> TRD is irrational.
I don't understand what you are trying to say. I am pretty sure there are rational explanations for TRD, which is after all why we are seeing doctors instead of voodoo priests.
If you wanted to say that suffering from depression limits one's capability to make rational decisions then I fully agree. That doesn't mean however that that irrational mode of decision-making is somehow good or how it's supposed to be.
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 8:54:10
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 8:37:52
> > TRD is irrational.
> I don't understand what you are trying to say.
I meant to say that it is not rational that we should live out our lives in such a hideous altered state of consciousness. I guess I'll leave it to God to judge its rationality in the workings of His Universe. I just think that it is unfair that we should be tortured - of course. It just doesn't make sense.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 10:44:32
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Phillipa, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 7:24:16
> > In defense of Scott who I feel is capable and probably out somewhere as he is feeling good right now which must be a wonderful feeling for him that from posts over the years I think don't know as fact that he has consulted many specialists and maybe this isn't his state? I'm sure he will clarify when available to. Phillipa
> Could you please write in entire phrases that make sense, at least when you are replying to one of my posts? I have given up decrypting your elliptical posts. Don't forget that not all members here are native English speakers.
In defense of Phillipa, I would say that your statements here are unnecesarily harsh. We all process information differently.
- Scott
Posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 11:14:39
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » europerep, posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 10:44:32
> We all process information differently.
Precisely. That's why it is a sign of respect towards other members to express one's thoughts in a way that other people can understand. This is particularly the case on the internet where you don't really know who it is you are talking to.
If Philippa doesn't even take the time to express herself in an intelligible way, why should I take the time to read it?
Maybe I am indeed harsh here, but the way Philippa talks to people on here is a clear sign of disrespect in my eyes. And she hasn't always posted like that.
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 12:17:20
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 11:14:39
> If Philippa doesn't even take the time to express herself in an intelligible way, why should I take the time to read it?
I don't know. For some reason, though, you do.
> Maybe I am indeed harsh here, but the way Philippa talks to people on here is a clear sign of disrespect in my eyes. And she hasn't always posted like that.
I also have difficulties understanding Phillipa's writing. I would never have perceived her writing as disrespectful.
At the risk of being disrespectful, I am concerned about you. You seem to be very angry and frustrated. Why is that?
- Scott
Posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 12:56:21
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » europerep, posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 12:17:20
> I would never have perceived her writing as disrespectful.
Well, I do. Just like it would be disrespectful if I chose to talk to my university professor the way I talk to my friends from high school.
On other forums, which are by the way much healthier than this one, Philippa's writing style would not be tolerated, for the very reason I described.
> You seem to be very angry and frustrated. Why is that?
Oh, this is not so much the point. Both my comments on your treatment procedure and on Philippa's writing style have been simmering for a long time now, and I refrained from saying anything about it for quite a while. That may make it look like I was angry or frustrated.
Posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 13:42:09
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 12:56:21
> > You seem to be very angry and frustrated. Why is that?
> Oh, this is not so much the point. Both my comments on your treatment procedure and on Philippa's writing style have been simmering for a long time now, and I refrained from saying anything about it for quite a while. That may make it look like I was angry or frustrated.No offense taken.
Well, I wish for you a healthy and happy new year. I hope we can all find a way to not be angry with each other.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on December 31, 2011, at 15:34:38
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » sigismund, posted by SLS on December 31, 2011, at 6:05:39
Scott, I am interested as to whether prazosin deepens sleep, reduces early waking and so on.
Do you have an opinion on that?
Posted by Phillipa on December 31, 2011, at 18:43:41
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Phillipa, posted by europerep on December 31, 2011, at 7:24:16
Sorry you have difficulty understanding my posts. Guess sometimes should type more slowly :(Phillipa
Posted by SLS on January 1, 2012, at 6:01:53
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by sigismund on December 31, 2011, at 15:34:38
> Scott, I am interested as to whether prazosin deepens sleep, reduces early waking and so on.
Those are great questions for which I don't know the answers. I'll see what I can find out. It most certainly suppresses nightmares and is supposed to smooth sleep out in general according to the PTSD studies.
- Scott
Posted by creepy on January 1, 2012, at 10:05:01
In reply to Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by SLS on December 29, 2011, at 6:55:56
The best med ever for my PTSD symptoms was topamax.
Oddly, NRIs seem to help me a bit.
zoloft and celexa were good on irritability but the apathy was just too much.
Posted by SLS on January 1, 2012, at 11:56:55
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by creepy on January 1, 2012, at 10:05:01
> The best med ever for my PTSD symptoms was topamax.
> Oddly, NRIs seem to help me a bit.
> zoloft and celexa were good on irritability but the apathy was just too much.
The apathy is one of the things I dread most with the SSRIs. Hopefully, I won't have to return to them.Thanks for the information regarding Topamax.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 1, 2012, at 15:22:16
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » creepy, posted by SLS on January 1, 2012, at 11:56:55
Happy New Year to ME!
It looks like it is going to be a good one.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2012, at 18:43:54
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by SLS on January 1, 2012, at 15:22:16
Scott does that mean the three day window is over?Jan/P
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2012, at 8:27:55
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on January 1, 2012, at 18:43:54
> Scott does that mean the three day window is over?Jan/P
Yes.
:-)
I love how you remember such details about people.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 2, 2012, at 20:25:57
In reply to Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by SLS on December 29, 2011, at 6:55:56
This stuff is still working - robustly. It is as if a light switch was turned on. I haven't felt this well for as long as I can remember - decades. I am not even 1/2 well yet, but I feel that I am on my way to remission. See how optimistic I get? It is a sickness :-).
Please pray for me. I could use all the help I can get.
Currently:Parnate 80 mg
nortriptyline 150 mg
Lamictal 200 mg
Abilify 10 mg
lithium 300 mg
prazosin 6 mg
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2012, at 21:40:01
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Everyone, posted by SLS on January 2, 2012, at 20:25:57
Horray!!!!! Prayers to you and on your way to FULL remission!!!! Jan/P
Posted by SLS on January 3, 2012, at 14:28:16
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Everyone, posted by SLS on January 2, 2012, at 20:25:57
Today is day 6 of my positive response to treatment. Still going strong.
Relief. Finally.
My mind is reawakening after 30 years of existing in a vegetative state.
Keep those prayers coming!
- Scott
> This stuff is still working - robustly. It is as if a light switch was turned on. I haven't felt this well for as long as I can remember - decades. I am not even 1/2 well yet, but I feel that I am on my way to remission. See how optimistic I get? It is a sickness :-).
>
> Please pray for me. I could use all the help I can get.
>
>
> Currently:
>
> Parnate 80 mg
> nortriptyline 150 mg
> Lamictal 200 mg
> Abilify 10 mg
> lithium 300 mg
> prazosin 6 mg
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2012, at 21:49:59
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by SLS on January 3, 2012, at 14:28:16
Scott congrats. What are you now doing during the days? Keeping active? Important I think as new habits will help the meds continue to work. No scientific data to support this!!! Jan/P
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 1:18:25
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2012, at 21:49:59
> Scott congrats. What are you now doing during the days? Keeping active? Important I think as new habits will help the meds continue to work. No scientific data to support this!!! Jan/P
I am in total agreement with you. No scientific data to support this.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 1:48:02
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 1:18:25
This is an interesting abstract that reports a downregulation of NE alpha-1 (prazosin) binding with antidepressant use.
- Scott
-----------------------------------------
J Neural Transm. 2010 Dec;117(12):1423-30. Epub 2010 Dec 7.Differential modulation of a-1 adrenoceptor subtypes by antidepressants in the rat brain.
Ramakrishna D, Subhash MN.
SourceKamineni Institute of Medical Sciences, Sreepuram, Narketpally, Nalgonda 508254, Andhra Pradesh, India. drramakrishna@klsindia.com
AbstractThe aim of the present study was to examine the effect of chronic antidepressants treatment on the density of a1-adrenoceptor (AR) subtypes in rat brain. Density of total a1 and a(1A)- and a(1?)-ARs was measured in cortex and cerebellum of rats treated with amitriptyline (AMI), desipramine (DMI) and fluoxetine (FLX), (10 mg/kg body wt), for 30 days, using [³H]prazosin in presence and absence of WB-4101. The density of cortical total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (54%) and DMI (25%) treatment, without altering the affinity of the receptor. Fluoxetine did not alter the density of cortical a1-ARs. The density of cortical a(1A)-ARs was also significantly decreased with AMI (85%) and DMI (50%) treatment, without affecting the affinity. The density of cerebellar total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (37%), DMI (50%) and FLX (70%) treatment, without affecting the affinity for [³H]prazosin. The density of a(1A)-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (67%), DMI (59%) and FLX (92%) treatment. a(1B)-AR density was decreased only with FLX (47%) and DMI (47%) treatment. Correspondingly the basal IP3 and NE (10 µM) stimulated IP3 levels were significantly decreased in AMI (47%), DMI (22%) and FLX (48%) treated rat cortex. The results suggest that chronic antidepressant (AD) treatment down-regulates the cortical and cerebellar total a1-ARs in rat brain. However, a(1A) subtype is predominantly down-regulated by AMI and DMI, where as FLX affects cerebellar a(1A)-ARs. The region-specific and subtype specific down-regulation of a1-ARs density, which occurs after prolonged AD treatment, may underline the therapeutic mechanism of action.
PMID:
21136124
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Bob on January 4, 2012, at 3:39:20
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 1:48:02
> This is an interesting abstract that reports a downregulation of NE alpha-1 (prazosin) binding with antidepressant use.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
> J Neural Transm. 2010 Dec;117(12):1423-30. Epub 2010 Dec 7.
>
> Differential modulation of a-1 adrenoceptor subtypes by antidepressants in the rat brain.
>
> Ramakrishna D, Subhash MN.
> Source
>
> Kamineni Institute of Medical Sciences, Sreepuram, Narketpally, Nalgonda 508254, Andhra Pradesh, India. drramakrishna@klsindia.com
> Abstract
>
> The aim of the present study was to examine the effect of chronic antidepressants treatment on the density of a1-adrenoceptor (AR) subtypes in rat brain. Density of total a1 and a(1A)- and a(1?)-ARs was measured in cortex and cerebellum of rats treated with amitriptyline (AMI), desipramine (DMI) and fluoxetine (FLX), (10 mg/kg body wt), for 30 days, using [³H]prazosin in presence and absence of WB-4101. The density of cortical total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (54%) and DMI (25%) treatment, without altering the affinity of the receptor. Fluoxetine did not alter the density of cortical a1-ARs. The density of cortical a(1A)-ARs was also significantly decreased with AMI (85%) and DMI (50%) treatment, without affecting the affinity. The density of cerebellar total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (37%), DMI (50%) and FLX (70%) treatment, without affecting the affinity for [³H]prazosin. The density of a(1A)-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (67%), DMI (59%) and FLX (92%) treatment. a(1B)-AR density was decreased only with FLX (47%) and DMI (47%) treatment. Correspondingly the basal IP3 and NE (10 µM) stimulated IP3 levels were significantly decreased in AMI (47%), DMI (22%) and FLX (48%) treated rat cortex. The results suggest that chronic antidepressant (AD) treatment down-regulates the cortical and cerebellar total a1-ARs in rat brain. However, a(1A) subtype is predominantly down-regulated by AMI and DMI, where as FLX affects cerebellar a(1A)-ARs. The region-specific and subtype specific down-regulation of a1-ARs density, which occurs after prolonged AD treatment, may underline the therapeutic mechanism of action.
>
> PMID:
> 21136124
> [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
OK, so in lay terms what does this mean?
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 5:55:26
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin., posted by Bob on January 4, 2012, at 3:39:20
Hi Bob.
It was nice of you to notice my post. It might be an important observation that prazosin has produced such a significant improvement in my condition.
Just to let you know, I performed an experiment to verify that prazosin was the agent responsible for my improvement. I discontinued it for 36 hours and observed that I relapsed pretty hard. I was able to recapture the antidepressant response immediately upon the reintroducton of prazosin. Upon titration, I settled on 6 mg as the dosage. Hopefully, this is the dosage that will bring about a full remission. My instincts tell me that it will.
> OK, so in lay terms what does this mean?
Chronic (long-term) antidepressant treatment with certain drugs causes the norepinephrine NE alpha-1 receptors to downregulate by reducing their numbers. Prazosin blocks these same receptors, thereby producing the same net effect.
I am, of course, extremely interested in the way prazosin might work for others as it now works for me. (Please God, let it continue). Perhaps prazosin has been overlooked in the treatment of TRD.
For now, I would say that prazosin might work best as an adjunct to antidepressants for people who have a history of childhood physical abuse, emotional abuse (including bullying), or neglect. It may be that some people have a backdrop of PTSD acting to drive depression. Does pazosin also work for other subtypes of depression? I don't know.
- Scott
-------------------------------------------------
> > This is an interesting abstract that reports a downregulation of NE alpha-1 (prazosin) binding with antidepressant use.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
> > J Neural Transm. 2010 Dec;117(12):1423-30. Epub 2010 Dec 7.
> >
> > Differential modulation of a-1 adrenoceptor subtypes by antidepressants in the rat brain.
> >
> > Ramakrishna D, Subhash MN.
> > Source
> >
> > Kamineni Institute of Medical Sciences, Sreepuram, Narketpally, Nalgonda 508254, Andhra Pradesh, India. drramakrishna@klsindia.com
> > Abstract
> >
> > The aim of the present study was to examine the effect of chronic antidepressants treatment on the density of a1-adrenoceptor (AR) subtypes in rat brain. Density of total a1 and a(1A)- and a(1?)-ARs was measured in cortex and cerebellum of rats treated with amitriptyline (AMI), desipramine (DMI) and fluoxetine (FLX), (10 mg/kg body wt), for 30 days, using [³H]prazosin in presence and absence of WB-4101. The density of cortical total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (54%) and DMI (25%) treatment, without altering the affinity of the receptor. Fluoxetine did not alter the density of cortical a1-ARs. The density of cortical a(1A)-ARs was also significantly decreased with AMI (85%) and DMI (50%) treatment, without affecting the affinity. The density of cerebellar total a1-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (37%), DMI (50%) and FLX (70%) treatment, without affecting the affinity for [³H]prazosin. The density of a(1A)-ARs was significantly decreased with AMI (67%), DMI (59%) and FLX (92%) treatment. a(1B)-AR density was decreased only with FLX (47%) and DMI (47%) treatment. Correspondingly the basal IP3 and NE (10 µM) stimulated IP3 levels were significantly decreased in AMI (47%), DMI (22%) and FLX (48%) treated rat cortex. The results suggest that chronic antidepressant (AD) treatment down-regulates the cortical and cerebellar total a1-ARs in rat brain. However, a(1A) subtype is predominantly down-regulated by AMI and DMI, where as FLX affects cerebellar a(1A)-ARs. The region-specific and subtype specific down-regulation of a1-ARs density, which occurs after prolonged AD treatment, may underline the therapeutic mechanism of action.
> >
> > PMID:
> > 21136124
> > [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by sigismund on January 4, 2012, at 12:31:23
In reply to Re: Adding Parnate and prazosin. » Bob, posted by SLS on January 4, 2012, at 5:55:26
>Chronic (long-term) antidepressant treatment with certain drugs causes the norepinephrine NE alpha-1 receptors to downregulate by reducing their numbers.
I can see that could easily have happened to you.
>Prazosin blocks these same receptors, thereby producing the same net effect.
I'm lost here.
>For now, I would say that prazosin might work best as an adjunct to antidepressants for people who have a history of childhood physical abuse, emotional abuse (including bullying), or neglect. It may be that some people have a backdrop of PTSD acting to drive depression.
Prazosin is Minipress, right? I was wondering if it blocks overactive NE, or were you saying the reverse?
How has it affected your sleep? I wonder if my sleep is disrupted by too much NE. Certainly something is doing it. I'm not in a hurry to try clonidine.
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