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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by violette on August 29, 2010, at 11:57:18
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 11:18:35
btw-yes, it does hit a nerve with me. There is a misconception about people on welfare; besides, it is very difficult for anyone to even qualify for it these days. Here in my state, your assets, have to be less than $500-probably what one would have in a shopping cart-clothes and personal belongings. So pretty much, you have to be homeless to qualify. You have to be truly destitute.
Sometimes I think people on government benefits are used as a scapegoat, often people direct anger at them seemingly to feel better about themselves. I'm not talking about your anger here, I mean in context with the political arenas. Since it represents such a small amount of our spending, i really can't see any other reason it is a repeated target of dissent besides hatefulness and vengence.
There's so much government $ wasted out there. Corporate welfare is worse than personal welfare for the down and out as the bankers basically robbed every man, woman, and child in this country, but still have their vacation homes intact. I'd rather pay for some 'losers' marlboros and cheap beer-maybe that's all they have in life, as opposed to a banker's yacht and chalet in the mountains.
Posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 12:22:16
In reply to Re: disability, posted by violette on August 29, 2010, at 11:57:18
Olivia, I appreciate your honesty & courage in apologizing. I agree with Violette on this subject, but something clearly pushed your buttons and it takes insight to recognize that and retract statements made in anger. If my response was overly angry, I'm sorry.
Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2010, at 12:54:02
In reply to Re: disability, posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 12:22:16
Disability and welfare are two different programs. Disability is for injury or inability to work to either to physical or mental illness. And that is determined by often times attorneys being retained and all medical records. Welfare is those that just do not work. Don't contribute to the system. Disability is also subject to taxing and amount a person receives is based on their total income earned over the years and at retirement converts to medicaire which is the same in a way as Disability. Now this is my understanding. Which leaves a lot to be desired. And for those on Disability most would do anything to be able to work and be productive. It's a loss of identity and income if deemed unable to work. I feel for those on Disability. Just my interpretation again. Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 29, 2010, at 13:34:06
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 11:18:35
> I was way out of line when I posted those rude comments. I am angry because of a particular situation that is personal to me--I didn't realize how angry I really am. I am sorry for those of you that I offended.
It's OK. It's normal to be angry from time to time and sometimes you just have to vent. When the anger wears off it's easy to feel embarrased about what you said. This has happened to me many times.
Posted by Maxime on August 29, 2010, at 13:47:09
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2010, at 12:54:02
I have been on Welfare since September 2009. I hate it. I feel like a parasite. It has been suggested to me by friends that I go on disability because I would get more money than Welfare. The problem is ... I don't see my myself as disabled. Never have. Getting on disability here is quite easy. You just have to have your doctor fill out the forms and voila! I don't even think my doctor would sign those forms because he wants me out and working. Even with all that is going on in my life, I don't feel the need to be angry at those on Disability. Some people really do need it. People with severe mental illness need it because they will never get a job.
I don't know what it is like in the US, but in Canada you can always earn up to $200 a month to suplement your disability or Welfare. I think that's a good idea. What I CANNOT STAND are people who collect Welfare or Disability and earn and lot of money working under the table. Now THAT is cheating the system! I have zero tolerance for people like that.
Posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 14:00:12
In reply to Re: disability, posted by violette on August 29, 2010, at 11:57:18
What an insightful and forgiving group of people you are. You read beyond my nasty comments and heard personal anger and fear. I respect that you didn't just have a knee-jerk rection and told me to piss off. I was searching for a "delete" option on here when I realized how horrible I was being--there is not one, but I suppose I am grateful for that as I have been humbled and enlightened. Thank you.
Posted by emme on August 29, 2010, at 14:30:21
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 11:18:35
> I was way out of line when I posted those rude comments. I am angry because of a particular situation that is personal to me--I didn't realize how angry I really am. I am sorry for those of you that I offended.
That's very nice of you to post. As Violette noted, there a lots of people here happy to listen and help. Lots of wisdom can be found here.
emme
Posted by proudfoot on August 29, 2010, at 14:32:53
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 11:18:35
> I was way out of line when I posted those rude comments. I am angry because of a particular situation that is personal to me--I didn't realize how angry I really am. I am sorry for those of you that I offended.
Thanks for your apology. Really, thank you. Your original post truly p***ed me off with its insensitive and judgmental tone.
Disability is a very intensely personal, many times painful, and humbling circumstance in which to find oneself, in particular if it's from a mental illness. One is totally dependent upon lawyers and insurance company or government hacks making a determination after reviewing what are frequently insufficient or inaccurate medical records. All truly disabled folks I've encountered in life have taken those benefits and that label very begrudgingly and as a last resort as their lives basically fell apart around them.
I am trained as a physician and am still licensed as such, but am no longer practicing. Impairments from a combination of major depression and A.D.D. led me to close my practice several years ago. It was the hardest and saddest thing I've ever had to do in my life, as if all the hard work I'd put into becoming a caring and competent physician had suddenly been devalued. My primary identity in life had been taken away from me, and I went into a much deeper depression than I thought possible in the ensuing months/years. Four years later I'm just now climbing out of it.
When I was still a young lad of 26 in training, I smartly (in retrospect) purchased a private disability insurance policy for which I paid almost $250 per month. On the advice of my psychiatrist and therapist, I finally filed a claim against that policy over a year after I quit medicine. I fought doing this tooth and nail, as I didn't want to be labeled as being disabled. However, I really had no choice, having accumulated over $20K in credit card debt, still owing $35K in medical school loans, and with no immediate job in sight.
The insurance company tried to deny the claim, and it finally took a one on one telephone conversation between my shrink and the insurance company's reviewing psychiatrist before the determination was made that I was truly unable to continue practicing medicine because of my illnesses. Getting these benefits proved to be a lifeline for me, and I am now gainfully employed doing low-wage office work in a non-medical office.
Even though I likely would have qualified for government benefits through SSI, I did NOT apply. However, knowing the hell people go through to get those government disability benefits, I would never be so arrogant as to judge someone else for having done so. Until you've actually been there and experienced how demeaning it is to be the applicant, please keep an open mind.
Just like car insurance or homeowner's insurance, disability insurance is something you hope you'll never need. But for those of us who really truly need it, please be supportive, not judgmental.
As others have already correctly posted here, there are much bigger areas of wasteful government spending (corporate welfare and two overseas wars to name a few) in the federal budget than the few slackers incorrectly collecting government payments. It's in those areas where disdain should be registered as to the amount of sheer waste that's occurred and continues to occur.
Just sign me:
Disabled, but not by choice
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 29, 2010, at 15:18:33
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 14:00:12
> What an insightful and forgiving group of people you are. You read beyond my nasty comments and heard personal anger and fear. I respect that you didn't just have a knee-jerk rection and told me to piss off. I was searching for a "delete" option on here when I realized how horrible I was being--there is not one, but I suppose I am grateful for that as I have been humbled and enlightened. Thank you.
Well who among us hasn't been guilty of getting angry?
Not me.
Posted by Roslynn on August 29, 2010, at 16:39:53
In reply to disability, posted by olivia12 on August 28, 2010, at 22:37:15
Plenty of people here are not on disability. Disability is very hard to qualify for and you have to have PAID into the system yourself by working x number of years. Same way that your Medicare payment will be higher based on your work history.
You sound like a really bitter person!> Is anyone here not on disability? It's pretty bad that tax dollars are swallowed up by reasonably healthy people that cannot work because they are "sick". I work my *ss off everyday to support you and sometimes I get irritated by the irresponsible adults that I see.
Posted by Roslynn on August 29, 2010, at 16:48:26
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2010, at 12:54:02
Phillipa,
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution to this thread.
Roslynn
> Disability and welfare are two different programs. Disability is for injury or inability to work to either to physical or mental illness. And that is determined by often times attorneys being retained and all medical records. Welfare is those that just do not work. Don't contribute to the system. Disability is also subject to taxing and amount a person receives is based on their total income earned over the years and at retirement converts to medicaire which is the same in a way as Disability. Now this is my understanding. Which leaves a lot to be desired. And for those on Disability most would do anything to be able to work and be productive. It's a loss of identity and income if deemed unable to work. I feel for those on Disability. Just my interpretation again. Phillipa
Posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 18:50:06
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Roslynn on August 29, 2010, at 16:48:26
Your responses and your personal challenges are very insightful. My bent on disability stems from the fact that my ex died unexpectedly and left me with 2 young children. Apparently, he did not work enough (32 credits) to throw any $ support to his kids--he seemed to be hard at work during the time that I was with him. He was a writer for most of the time and so maybe that doesn't count. At the same time, I work in an area of health care where I see the waste of federal dollars each day. Thus, my vantage point. Again, I am sorry for feelings hurt--my comments were about anger and fear on my behalf.
Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2010, at 19:09:48
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 7:10:35
I kind of agree with you. I personally know a few people who are on disability for "depression".
There is simply zero motivation to recover.
That being said, there are those that do legitimately diserve it.
Unfortunate,
Linkadge
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 29, 2010, at 19:38:23
In reply to Re: disability, posted by linkadge on August 29, 2010, at 19:09:48
I know two people who are on disability. One has rapid cycling bipolar which is barely controlled by meds. The other is thoroughly disabled by Tourette's. Both had to fight like hell to get disability benefits from social security, which amount to something like $800-$900 a month. In addition, you are allowed to work up to 16 hours a week, but the kind of work most disabled people are qualified for are typically low-paying work like returning library books to the stacks or walking dogs.
I'm sorry, Olivia, for you and your children. Apparently, you need 40 quarters (ten years) or paying into the system to be eligible for benefits, but I didn't think this applied to survivor's benefits, which are far more generous than disability benefits.
Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2010, at 19:57:43
In reply to Re: disability, posted by emmanuel98 on August 29, 2010, at 19:38:23
This is interesting. I didn't know about the time period of working. Is it possible your husband didn't claim his earnings during the time he was writing? I'm also so sorry he died. Hopefully your employment in health care is in a field that pays a decent wage. I know being an RN does. Phillipa ps got into it as knew a divorce coming and needed a way to support my three children. And I did make great to me money. Didn't get much in child support and what I got chose to send my youngest to an exclusive girl's school in CT to provide a good enviornment. I also got some of the tuition on scholarship from grades. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 0:32:54
In reply to Re: disability, posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 12:22:16
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 0:35:15
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Roslynn on August 29, 2010, at 16:39:53
> You sound like a really bitter person!
Did you see that she apologized? Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceOlivia, I'm also sorry if you felt hurt.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:42:53
In reply to disability, posted by olivia12 on August 28, 2010, at 22:37:15
>If my response was overly angry, I'm sorry.
Me too.
Posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:45:58
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 14:00:12
> I was searching for a "delete" option on here when I realized how horrible I was being
I know exactly how you felt.
Posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:45:58
Thank you for the nice feedback all--it is much appreciated. I'm not sure what my ex did before I met him, but I was blown away when, after his death, I reviewed his work history with Social Security. They told me he had only earned 31 credits and needed 32 to quailfy his kids for survivor benefits. We are talking about a college educated man of 51 y/o. He had some difficulities in his past re: to mental health, but I suppose I didn't know the significance of it. Thankfully I make a decent living and am able to support our children (2 and 3 when he passsed), but it irritates/saddens me that my kids will never see a penny of the benefits that he should have made sure were available to them. I suppose that is where my feelings are misdirected--getting angry at people that are getting some type of govt support is more tangible than being mad at a dead man, ya know? And so while my life is very blessed and full despite a tragic event, I do at times feel the largeness of it all. Now, this is most definitely where those nasty comments are rooted. Thanks for letting me better understand this.
Posted by obsidian on August 30, 2010, at 22:40:24
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
wow, I'm impressed by how this thread turned out.
It is certainly hard to make it in this world, and I can understand why you might feel incredibly angry, frustrated, cheated when you and your children should have more.I probably relate to different aspects of this issue.
Not working has never been an option for me, but it has been incredibly difficult at times just to get through the day.
and then there's my father for instance, an odd guy, mentally ill? if I want to call him that, but is he justified in abandoning his children and offering no financial support?I wish you happier times.
Posted by chujoe on August 31, 2010, at 7:15:09
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by obsidian on August 30, 2010, at 22:40:24
Olivia, I love your phrase "the largeness of it all." Hardly an hour goes by that I don't contemplate the largeness of it all.
Posted by olivia12 on August 31, 2010, at 20:11:54
In reply to Re: disability, posted by chujoe on August 31, 2010, at 7:15:09
Thanks Chu--yes, it is all very "large":)
Posted by utopizen on September 1, 2010, at 0:11:43
In reply to Re: disability, posted by violette on August 28, 2010, at 22:47:15
First:
Disability is not funded by the Social Security Trust; it is an independent trust. Its funds comes from the people who put money into it while working; if one didn't work, disabled or not, they won't receive it. If one's not qualified for it, and they're very poor, they may qualify for Social Security Income. It may also come from the same independent trust; I'm not sure.
Second:
I don't know how much you make, but few can actually live off of disability benefits alone.
They must stay afloat by combining it with $50/week max. food stamps (do you envy people living off of $50/week in groceries?), public housing (would you trade in your job to depend on public housing 3-year waitlist? and trade in your place for public projects?)-- and if they're lucky, family and friends to provide just basic living allotments for medical co-pays, other living expenses, utilities, and housing after their social security check depletes itself on a modest living space alone.
However, the reality is this: most people enter Disability insurance during an economic downtown, often due to mental health issues that already had such folks hanging by a thread when the economy was *good*. Add life stressors like losing a job, then a home/apartment, then a car, getting bill collectors harassing them daily, and feeling like a pathetic, dependent burden to their families as they receive financial support from. sound more fun than working now?
Now they have no funds short of temporary unemployment insurance, and no reason to get out of bed or distract themselves from their physical health/mental health condition with work. And so it worsens. Do I think this is wise? No.
One's either in a hospice as an invalid or they're not; if they bothered to volunteer in the mornings, they'd feel a lot more dignity in spite of things, they'd feel empowered, and would less likely view themselves by the feel-my-pain reclusive invalids-to-be-club. (I hope no one misreads this to suggest I am suggesting those on disability are in such a club).
Living in one's apartment, to top it all off, is rarely anything but severely depressing. One's less likely to exercise, go outside, or maintain good habits, etc. And, so by not having a job, they are effectively doing the opposite of what many might benefit from something to busy themselves with and enter a healthy routine that gets them out of bed.
My advice to anyone who is disabled: 1) Medicine alone is not going to cure anything. 2) Vigorous exercise, if your body is not itself disabled (the bigger the rut, the more vigorous it must be) 3) cook healthy meals you will feel proud of and enjoy. 4) make good habits, wake up @ same time each morning, and avoid your apartment/house go to a library, museums, travel abroad to do community service in africa, go hiking, body permitting
avoid TV. Read a book. You will feel more proud of yourself.
Experience nature. Clinical studies from UM recently established witnessing scenes in nature has a positive correlation on one's mental well-being. Take a high, look up at the stars, climb a mountain.
Volunteer. There's always someone worse of than ourselves, yet still maintains a better outlook than most others around us. Volunteering makes you feel good, and gives us perspective.
Posted by violette on September 1, 2010, at 1:22:24
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
Hi Olivia,
Thanks for sharing you anger and sadness with us. I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your husband. The children's emotional losses must add so much to your pain and abilities to manage their distress while having so much of your own? Of course children are very resilient as well, so don't forget that.
I suppose I think of the SSI situation similar to social safety nets in general. That 1 credit your husband was missing, seems ridiculous. I'll share with you that my child's father has been alive, but rarely contributed to supporting our child, just did not pay or help out but for one year at one point, about $50 a week...that didn't last long, then maybe a lump payment of a couple hundred a few years later, for example.
I had applied for food stamps and other help in the past, but always made sometimes just a few dollars over the monthly limit to qualify for anything. But strangely, I never gave it a second thought, just decided I had to work second jobs to support us..waitress, sales, whatever. This hurt my child as he was home alone alot. No one benefitted from the cutoff points used for social safety nets. Not even the taxpayers, imo. I also believe my prolonged situation added to my current mental health issues...and could have been prevented..i believe in the bio-psych-social model of mental illness so that's an opinion from my experience. My parents were doing just fine financially, but abandoned me before I was even an adult. So that was never an option.
One of the differences between you and I, perhaps, only in context of dealing with the outcome as our circumstances are of course much differnet-is that I never 'got angry'. I was in independent mode for so long "I need no one and can survive whatever!", that I just moved along, not giving the issues another thought...
That this did not have a good effect in the end. It actually worked against me; wish I had seen that now. What I am saying is that getting angry is a healthy thing to do...(of course this forum might have been the best venue of choice to initially discuss disability anger!)...
And I bet you will benefit in the long run from the actions you are taking today. Today I can get angry at 'systems', particularly politics and government spending, the mental health system, etc, but still have trouble getting angry at actual people who are close to me-regardless with what they had one.
So despite some of the darkness in your life right now, you do have alot going for you despite the unfortunate circumstances. It's like you are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. In my case, I never even looked for the light and am paying for my mistakes. Best to you and your children. :)
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