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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 21:29:29
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 15, 2010, at 19:10:12
> This isn't a reaction to some med. I'm talking about what I've gone through for the past half of my life. Adderall is the only thing that slightly removes the painful mental illness. Ed, the reason I don't keep a journal is because I don't feel an effect from any drug. I feel completely terrible with no change all the time, so there's not much to document.
I gonna say it again, and again you probably won't be responsive, but what the hay! Therapy!!! A good therapist this time around if you had a sh*tty one before.
I only mentioned a possible reaction to medication because it seemed as if you were talking about your anxiety in a way that it was manifesting differently than it had before.
I guess your not open to taking any harmless herbs/supplements that could help you feel a little better. Sorry, I won't mention anything about this again unless you ask and show interest.
I do think you really should be taking a good fish oil supplement. If you really want to help yourself you might want to think about responding more to people's questions here. I know you are feeling bad right now so it may be hard for you to respond the way you would like.
Also, it does not appear you have given some of the SSRIs you have been on a long enough trial. You need to give SSRIs a full 12 weeks and some dosage tweeking to know if you are really going to get significant relief from them. I know it's hard to be patient, especially when you feel so bad.
Hang in there!
Morgan
Posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2010, at 12:11:34
In reply to Re: I feel horrible » Dima, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2010, at 20:10:11
Xanax and klonopine never really addressed my core anxiety (including social). Stimulant therapy does, oddly enough. Wish I hadn't started a 10 use (off and on, mostly on) of xanax. That is, if I could do it over.
Let's see. If I had received help at 19, my treatment might have looked like stimulant (for add), sleep aide and sleep management, and therapy. Good therapy. Going to visit my hometown always knocked me sideways, btw, but that's me. Take care, be wise, stay safe.
Posted by sigismund on August 16, 2010, at 14:02:24
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 14, 2010, at 16:23:46
> I went to the ER for anxiety last night, and they ended up prescribing me Valium. Today, I took up to 10 mg and I still felt tense around people and in general. It made me feel more tired, though. Maybe it's not regular anxiety, but a non-drug-induced akathisia. That's what it feels like to me.
How do you know it wasn't drug induced?
>This definitely is not normal anxiety. There's a physical aspect to it. My muscles all feel tensed up even though I know they're relaxed. It's like restless leg syndrome all day with your whole body, which makes me incapable of focusing on anything, thus enjoying nothing.
I would be wondering if this was drug induced.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 16, 2010, at 15:23:54
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 15, 2010, at 17:57:53
>This definitely is not normal anxiety. There's a physical aspect to it. My muscles all feel tensed up even though I know they're relaxed. It's like restless leg syndrome all day with your whole body, which makes me incapable of focusing on anything, thus enjoying nothing.
Have you felt this type of anxiety (with the restless feeling) for many years or only recently?
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 19:36:08
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2010, at 12:11:34
I bet you are right!!!! You mean l0 years right not dose of xanax? Phillipa ps still happen when go there or don't you anymore?
Posted by sigismund on August 16, 2010, at 20:18:24
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by floatingbridge on August 16, 2010, at 12:11:34
>Xanax and klonopine never really addressed my core anxiety (including social). Stimulant therapy does, oddly enough.
I hesitate to say what would address my core anxiety.
Xanax, Klonopin....I'm not surprised.
You have to be able to think clearly and quickly enough, rather than just letting the feeling of horror mount.
Posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2010, at 12:09:00
In reply to Re: I feel horrible » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 19:36:08
Phillipa, ten years (my time flies; wish I could say while having fun), not mgs.
Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2010, at 19:56:34
In reply to Re: xanax » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2010, at 12:09:00
Phew!!! You had me concerned. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2010, at 20:41:04
In reply to Re: xanax » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on August 17, 2010, at 12:09:00
How are you doing?
Posted by Dima on August 19, 2010, at 17:28:05
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 21:29:29
Hi, I'm sorry I don't post more often. It feels like immense effort to do anything, including going online.
Today my psychiatrist prescribed 10 mg adderall because loss of focus is one of my main problems. I took 10 mg an hour and a half ago and feel no effects, so she might have to up the dose when I see her in a couple weeks. I've only ever felt effects at 20 mg or higher doses.
Once the adderall gives me some motivation, I'll be able to handle finding a more long term solution more easily.
Posted by Dima on August 19, 2010, at 17:42:38
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 19, 2010, at 17:28:05
I'd like to describe in detail exactly how I feel. The feeling is not one I recognize as sadness or normal anxiety. It just feels "bad". I feel like I can't think. I can't focus enough to read or enjoy anything. The thoughts themselves feel "blurry" like I'm not completely sure what they are. And it feels like I have no control over what I think about. They jump around every few seconds, and when I try to focus on anything it feels almost like five other thoughts are distracting me the whole time.
I don't enjoy a single second in the day. Watching tv is all I do every day because it slightly distracts me from thinking about how bad I feel. It's not actually entertaining because I feel no emotion and can't even focus on any idea in the show for very long.
Low to no sex drive.
Low physical energy. Muscles feel much weaker after any exercise very faster and more intensely than they should.
I have social anxiety. I mostly just feel that I have nothing at all to say and feel awkward and I'm not interested in conversations themselves at all. They bring no enjoyment.
Insomnia. Long time falling asleep and wake up early or at night.
I've experienced all of this for years staying about the same level where I could still finish high school and start college. Everything got a lot more intense in January though. I dropped to a level where I can barely function on my own, not able to even consider school or work with this condition. If I wait too long without going back to college I'll lose my full scholarship and we don't really have any money to pay for college, so I really want to get better!
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 19, 2010, at 20:17:23
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 19, 2010, at 17:42:38
Can you try to get a medical leave from college that will allow you to take time off while still keeping your scholarship?
Posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2010, at 20:30:11
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by emmanuel98 on August 19, 2010, at 20:17:23
Dima that's a great idea about time off. To me it sounds like depression. Phillipa
Posted by Dima on August 20, 2010, at 13:41:28
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 19, 2010, at 17:42:38
Any of these symptoms mean anything that could help?
> I'd like to describe in detail exactly how I feel. The feeling is not one I recognize as sadness or normal anxiety. It just feels "bad". I feel like I can't think. I can't focus enough to read or enjoy anything. The thoughts themselves feel "blurry" like I'm not completely sure what they are. And it feels like I have no control over what I think about. They jump around every few seconds, and when I try to focus on anything it feels almost like five other thoughts are distracting me the whole time.
>
> I don't enjoy a single second in the day. Watching tv is all I do every day because it slightly distracts me from thinking about how bad I feel. It's not actually entertaining because I feel no emotion and can't even focus on any idea in the show for very long.
>
> Low to no sex drive.
>
> Low physical energy. Muscles feel much weaker after any exercise very faster and more intensely than they should.
>
> I have social anxiety. I mostly just feel that I have nothing at all to say and feel awkward and I'm not interested in conversations themselves at all. They bring no enjoyment.
>
> Insomnia. Long time falling asleep and wake up early or at night.
>
> I've experienced all of this for years staying about the same level where I could still finish high school and start college. Everything got a lot more intense in January though. I dropped to a level where I can barely function on my own, not able to even consider school or work with this condition. If I wait too long without going back to college I'll lose my full scholarship and we don't really have any money to pay for college, so I really want to get better!
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 20, 2010, at 17:48:27
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 20, 2010, at 13:41:28
It sounds like major depression. Depression does not necessary mean that you will feel 'sad'. Many of the symptoms which you mention are very typical of depression eg. lack of enjoyment of anything (anhedonia), constant feeling of distress which is difficult to describe and not clearly caused by any external situation, difficulty concentrating, loss of libido, low energy and insomnia.
Can you tell us more about the blurry thoughts which are jumping around your head? I know this is difficult to describe. Are the thoughts very repetitive?
Also, did you experience any symptoms when you were a young child or only as a teenager? Any symptoms noticed by your family or teachers?
Finally, have you ever experienced periods where you felt very excited, impulsive, or energetic? Thoughts racing through your head, many new ideas, rapid speech, reduced need to sleep?
> Any of these symptoms mean anything that could help?
>
> > I'd like to describe in detail exactly how I feel. The feeling is not one I recognize as sadness or normal anxiety. It just feels "bad". I feel like I can't think. I can't focus enough to read or enjoy anything. The thoughts themselves feel "blurry" like I'm not completely sure what they are. And it feels like I have no control over what I think about. They jump around every few seconds, and when I try to focus on anything it feels almost like five other thoughts are distracting me the whole time.
> >
> > I don't enjoy a single second in the day. Watching tv is all I do every day because it slightly distracts me from thinking about how bad I feel. It's not actually entertaining because I feel no emotion and can't even focus on any idea in the show for very long.
> >
> > Low to no sex drive.
> >
> > Low physical energy. Muscles feel much weaker after any exercise very faster and more intensely than they should.
> >
> > I have social anxiety. I mostly just feel that I have nothing at all to say and feel awkward and I'm not interested in conversations themselves at all. They bring no enjoyment.
> >
> > Insomnia. Long time falling asleep and wake up early or at night.
> >
> > I've experienced all of this for years staying about the same level where I could still finish high school and start college. Everything got a lot more intense in January though. I dropped to a level where I can barely function on my own, not able to even consider school or work with this condition. If I wait too long without going back to college I'll lose my full scholarship and we don't really have any money to pay for college, so I really want to get better!
>
>
Posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 12:13:33
In reply to Re: I feel horrible » Dima, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 20, 2010, at 17:48:27
> It sounds like major depression. Depression does not necessary mean that you will feel 'sad'. Many of the symptoms which you mention are very typical of depression eg. lack of enjoyment of anything (anhedonia), constant feeling of distress which is difficult to describe and not clearly caused by any external situation, difficulty concentrating, loss of libido, low energy and insomnia.
>
> Can you tell us more about the blurry thoughts which are jumping around your head? I know this is difficult to describe. Are the thoughts very repetitive?
>
> Also, did you experience any symptoms when you were a young child or only as a teenager? Any symptoms noticed by your family or teachers?
>
> Finally, have you ever experienced periods where you felt very excited, impulsive, or energetic? Thoughts racing through your head, many new ideas, rapid speech, reduced need to sleep?
Thoughts are usually more ideas than actual sentences. I can't steer my thoughts how I'd like for very long. I guess it's brain fog, probably. Not much is repetitive unless I'm worried about something specific.The only symptoms people notice are me being quiet and irritable. Ever since at least kindergarden, I've been shy and not that happy. It was hard to notice because it happened so slowly, but I may have been getting worse. It's very hard to remember how I felt that long ago.
In December, after going low carb, I had a week of the only period that might be considered manic. I don't think I was, though. I felt close to normal, doing normal errands and not hating it.
Also, I don't think I mentioned that I feel almost no emotion. I didn't feel sad when my mom died in 2006. It's very hard to enjoy tv when your favorite tv show might as well be cspan because I don't feel any of the characters' emotions.
Thanks ed.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 15:23:28
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 12:13:33
>Thoughts are usually more ideas than actual sentences. I can't steer my thoughts how I'd like for very long. I guess it's brain fog, probably. Not much is repetitive unless I'm worried about something specific.
That sounds typical of depression. Difficulties with concentration are very common in depression. There can be medical reasons for poor concentration, but I think you said that your doctor had done some blood tests. Poor concentration is seen in ADHD, but ADHD is not associated with severe mood disturbances or anhedonia. Poor concentration is seen in OCD - but this is due to constant repetitive and intrusive ideas which cause distress. Poor concentration in mania is due to rapid flight of ideas, distractability and excitement. Only major depression seems to fit your symptoms.
It seems to me that your anxiety is secondary to the depression, which appears to be your main problem. The depression makes social situations very unpleasant and difficult to deal with, which causes anxiety.
>The only symptoms people notice are me being quiet and irritable. Ever since at least kindergarden, I've been shy and not that happy.I see. This is obviously a very long term problem.
May I ask... when you are very depressed, do you ever hear voices or feel paranoid? Do you ever feel that other people are out to get you?
>In December, after going low carb, I had a week of the only period that might be considered manic. I don't think I was, though. I felt close to normal, doing normal errands and not hating it.
I don't think that sounds like mania. Did anyone comment that your behaviour during this period was unusual?
>Also, I don't think I mentioned that I feel almost no emotion.
In depression, emotional reactions are changed. Anger, irritability and distress may be felt, but not necessarily sadness. It's all very individual. Some people just feel numb, with no pleasure in anything. Also, certain medications can worsen the feelings of numbness.
How do you respond to tricyclic antidepressants such clomipramine? These drugs are sometimes suitable for severe depression when SSRIs haven't been effective. This could be something to discuss with your doctor.
This might not be what you want to hear right now but..... antidepressants in general don't seem to work as well in young people as they do in older adults. For example, the efficacy of antidepressants in teenagers is very modest. I am wondering whether you might respond much better to ADs in a few years time compared with how you respond now. I hope this gives some hope for the future.
Posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 17:23:55
In reply to Re: I feel horrible » Dima, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 15:23:28
> >Thoughts are usually more ideas than actual sentences. I can't steer my thoughts how I'd like for very long. I guess it's brain fog, probably. Not much is repetitive unless I'm worried about something specific.
>
> That sounds typical of depression. Difficulties with concentration are very common in depression. There can be medical reasons for poor concentration, but I think you said that your doctor had done some blood tests. Poor concentration is seen in ADHD, but ADHD is not associated with severe mood disturbances or anhedonia. Poor concentration is seen in OCD - but this is due to constant repetitive and intrusive ideas which cause distress. Poor concentration in mania is due to rapid flight of ideas, distractability and excitement. Only major depression seems to fit your symptoms.
>
> It seems to me that your anxiety is secondary to the depression, which appears to be your main problem. The depression makes social situations very unpleasant and difficult to deal with, which causes anxiety.
>
> >The only symptoms people notice are me being quiet and irritable. Ever since at least kindergarden, I've been shy and not that happy.
>
> I see. This is obviously a very long term problem.
>
> May I ask... when you are very depressed, do you ever hear voices or feel paranoid? Do you ever feel that other people are out to get you?
>
> >In December, after going low carb, I had a week of the only period that might be considered manic. I don't think I was, though. I felt close to normal, doing normal errands and not hating it.
>
> I don't think that sounds like mania. Did anyone comment that your behaviour during this period was unusual?
>
> >Also, I don't think I mentioned that I feel almost no emotion.
>
> In depression, emotional reactions are changed. Anger, irritability and distress may be felt, but not necessarily sadness. It's all very individual. Some people just feel numb, with no pleasure in anything. Also, certain medications can worsen the feelings of numbness.
>
> How do you respond to tricyclic antidepressants such clomipramine? These drugs are sometimes suitable for severe depression when SSRIs haven't been effective. This could be something to discuss with your doctor.
>
> This might not be what you want to hear right now but..... antidepressants in general don't seem to work as well in young people as they do in older adults. For example, the efficacy of antidepressants in teenagers is very modest. I am wondering whether you might respond much better to ADs in a few years time compared with how you respond now. I hope this gives some hope for the future.
>
I don't ever hear voices, but I feel paranoid in the sense that I feel like everyone is judging me. Not that they are out to get me.And there is also some OCD. For a few years I dealt with HOCD where I couldn't stop my mind from fearing that I'm gay everytime anything reminded me of being gay, sometimes even just a guy on TV. That was the main thought that would play back in circles for long periods of time. There have been some other similar thought patterns, but that was the main one. It doesn't feel like I got over it, though, it just feels like my mind is so turned off that I can't feel it anymore. It comes back in tiny degrees at random times, so I know it's at least somewhat still an issue.
Posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 17:49:59
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 17:23:55
Hey Dima, sorry if I am annoying you with this, please tell me if I am and I will bug off...Have you ever seen a therapist? Are you open to the idea of therapy?
It just sounds like something may have triggered much of what you are experiencing at a very young age. I'm not judging, just saying it's a possibility that might be worth exploring. Personally, I believe that everyone that suffers from mental illness has influences from their childhood that contributed to the development of the mental illness.
Morgan
Posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 18:01:11
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 17:49:59
> Hey Dima, sorry if I am annoying you with this, please tell me if I am and I will bug off...Have you ever seen a therapist? Are you open to the idea of therapy?
>
> It just sounds like something may have triggered much of what you are experiencing at a very young age. I'm not judging, just saying it's a possibility that might be worth exploring. Personally, I believe that everyone that suffers from mental illness has influences from their childhood that contributed to the development of the mental illness.
>
> MorganI've been seeing a therapist for a couple months. There's been no benefit at all from it. I'm not arguing that therapy can't help. It's just not helping me now. I can barely tell what my own thoughts are and can't find meaning in any of my thoughts. Specifically trying to find specific thought patterns makes my mind go even more blank.
I would love to feel better doing therapy so that it might actually help me. I thought Adderall might help me, but it seems that my depression is too tough for 10 mg to even put a dent in.
Posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 19:16:56
In reply to Re: I feel horrible » Dima, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2010, at 15:23:28
I've been basically no carb for two weeks. I've been checking my blood sugar for the past couple days, and the levels vary often ranging from 93 to 150 even many hours after meals it goes up and down.
Posted by Phillipa on August 21, 2010, at 20:16:00
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 19:16:56
I'd advise a work up with an endocrinologist as if your blood sugars are off that could explain a lot of what you are experiencing. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 20:45:28
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 18:01:11
Gotchya..Yeah you definitely need to be able to function normally and feel somewhat lucid in order to do the necessary work in therapy that will help in the long run.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on August 21, 2010, at 21:09:58
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 19:16:56
Have you tried Zyprexa? I'm thinking a low dose may help stabilize you until you figure out a better long term treatment.
Too bad ketamine isn't available as a prescription yet. It really sounds like a dose of ketamine could really help you right now.
Are you open to trying some natural things for the time being that may help some? I'm thinking of fish oil, magnesium glycinate, L Glutamine, GABA, B6(with glutamine and GABA) Holy Basil, and Lithium Orotate. Or, are you thinking that if medications aren't helping then how could amino acids and other natural things help? I think these and other more natural substances would give your brain some nutrients it needs that may help medications work better, especially fish oil. Right now your brain is not responding well to many things and it needs some help-supplements, nutrition, and exercise(I realize this may be hard to do right now, but if you could just get your running shoes on and go run your *ss off for 20 mins then relax and stretch for another 15 mins you might just feel a little better).
I hope you find something that works for you soon.
Morgan
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 22, 2010, at 15:49:25
In reply to Re: I feel horrible, posted by Dima on August 21, 2010, at 17:23:55
>And there is also some OCD. For a few years I dealt with HOCD where I couldn't stop my mind from fearing that I'm gay everytime anything reminded me of being gay, sometimes even just a guy on TV.
HOCD, I've not heard that one before. What would happen if you were gay? Would that be so awful? I don't think it would, not that I'm saying you are.
Anyway, I think you might benefit from a tricyclic antidepressant. TCAs are the traditional choice for severe depression. I think you may benefit - other meds don't seem to be helping. I suggest clomipramine because it is effective for anxiety as well as for depression. I think it would be helpful to discuss this with your psychiatrist. The initial dose of clomipramine for those who haven't taken it before is normally 25mg at night.
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