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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 60. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 14:17:27
I know the studies of how marijuana may lead to Schizophrenia, it may exacerbate the symptoms in some people but I don't really think its any different than any other psychoactive drug. Some studies suggest it helps it.
But in specific, I have found it very effective for my depression and anxiety over the years. Yeah, it has its side effects but it many people it is very effective. It has also been effective withdrawing off of psych meds as well. Although I do not smoke it now.
I know many people who were on psych meds and get little or no relief who ended up back on pot and are much happier and productive.
What are your thoughts on Medical Marijuana for Depression and anxiety?? Is it really more dangerous than the other psych meds??
Posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 14:59:40
In reply to Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 14:17:27
I know someone who just started using marijuana and was surprised at the positive effect it had on their mood and compulsive behavior. They hardly drink and marijuana is the only drug they have used outside of psychiatric medications. They said that using marijuana one time has a lasting effect of up to a few days. They are going to make an alcohol based liquid tincture so they don't have to smoke it regularly.
I personally have a paradoxical reaction to marijuana, it makes me hyper and talkative. I wish it was mood stabilizing as it is for the person I mentioned above. Still, I may try a little of their marijuana tincture just to see what it does. It could be very useful for situations when I want to go out to bars or clubs or parties. I used to be a completely extroverted social butterfly, but these days, between my body being such a wreck and medications not giving me feeling of being "normal" like they used to, I have not been able to enjoy an active social life like I did just a few years ago.
I hope that one day soon certain types of medical marijuana will be developed specifically for those that suffer from anxiety and depression. It's crazy to think that such invasive drugs like Seroquel, Abilify, and Zyprexa are being advertised on T.V.(except zyprexa, but I'm sure there will be an advertisement soon!) but Marijuana is flat out illegal.
Posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 21:30:01
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 14:59:40
I agree with you entirely, I also have a sort of paradox reaction in that I get more talkative, laugh more, and more creative thinking, also I seem to forget about depression but it has its drawbacks as well and withdrawal symptoms after long term use.
Posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 23:51:07
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 21:30:01
It does have some drawbacks, but all medications do. I'm sure there will be some pharmaceutical medication based on marijuana that has a longer effect and is less likely to cause unwanted effects.
I do think chronic marijuana use can damage the brain some and eventually impair things like short term memory. My main concern is that it could make depression worse in the long run. But if I use it periodically, I won't be too concerned about the effects on memory or long term mental/physical health. I'm really looking forward to trying my friend's alcohol based tincture. Like I said, it will be valuable for the nights when I want to go out and socialize.
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 0:18:59
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by morgan miller on August 15, 2010, at 23:51:07
Canada has medical marijuana in foods to eat. A very intelligent babbler took for nerve pain. Phillipa
Posted by angels78 on August 16, 2010, at 0:31:20
In reply to Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 14:17:27
I would like to see a study done on how Marijuana and different ethnicities effect social behavior after an individual has smoked for more than 3 years on a habitual basis.
I would bet that Middle Eastern decents are more common to developing anti social behvaior than of any other ethnic background.
This is just from personal experience, but I would like to see that study done on a ethnic basis. I loved marijuana until I grew SP from it. Ruined years of my life and was the only drug I ever did. Marijuana leads to Social Phobia behaviors if smoked on a habitual basis and depending on ethnicity. I believe.
Posted by europerep on August 16, 2010, at 3:43:43
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 21:30:01
> I agree with you entirely, I also have a sort of paradox reaction in that I get more talkative, laugh more, and more creative thinking
people, that's not a 'paradox' reaction, that's what smoking weed is like :).. paradox reaction would be if it made you all introverted, silent, disinterested in stuff and so on..
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 16, 2010, at 15:57:18
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 0:18:59
>A very intelligent babbler took it for nerve pain.
Were they still intelligent after they'd taken it?
Sorry - couldn't resist! :)
Posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2010, at 17:17:06
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 16, 2010, at 15:57:18
Ha, ed, I almost wrote the same post! (great minds think alike) Hoping the person in question would see it, even, as I think he would find it funny...
Don't know if he reads Babble any more, but I know the Babbler Phillipa is thinking of and he definitely was VERY intelligent both before and after.... : -)
(I'm glad you couldn't resist)
Posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 19:16:56
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » ed_uk2010, posted by 10derHeart on August 16, 2010, at 17:17:06
10der exactly who referring to. I don't think he reads here anymore too involved in work a new career. And very profitable. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 16, 2010, at 21:30:36
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » 10derHeart, posted by Phillipa on August 16, 2010, at 19:16:56
I don't know what you mean by "reved up". On marijuann all I wanted to do was eat, sleep, watch movies, and ...... well thats about it.
Reved up?... what like strong coffee? Not for me.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on August 16, 2010, at 22:32:01
In reply to Re: MJ never reved me up, posted by linkadge on August 16, 2010, at 21:30:36
Yeah it is not normal to get a hyperactive reaction to marijuana. I get hyperactive and hyperverbal on marijuana, at least I used to. I think this reaction IS paradoxical.
Posted by bleauberry on August 17, 2010, at 17:45:37
In reply to Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Leo33 on August 15, 2010, at 14:17:27
I personally think mj is a very good medical substance with many uses. Anorexia, sleep, nausea, pain, anxiety, depression, anhedonia, muscle spasms. Useful in Lyme, MS, and other mystery diseases.
But there are problems in management. Dose size is difficult to control. Consistent chemistry from one batch to another is not reliable unless maybe from a legal dispensary. And of course one could get busted. The cost isn't cheap.
Widely different effects come from different strains. Sativas are usually head-buzz, anti-anhedonia, antidepressant, motivating, stimulating, can cause paranoia. The indica strains are body buzz, couch potato, antianxiety, sometimes depressing, pro-sleep, pro-munchies.
Most are hybrids with genes from both.
Some strains have been isolated that are particularly good for medical use because they display traits primarily in the pain and antidepressant areas.
All these factors play into why everyone has had varying experiences with mj.
It really should be legal everywhere with a doctor's prescription to get specific strains for specific reasons. it makes an excellent medication when it can be managed properly.
Up until about 4 years ago I was a chronic smoker and found mj more helpful than anything in the prescription pad. But cost and fear of jail eventually said no more.
Whether it hurts memory or not, I don't know, I can't remember. :-) Just kidding. Chronic heavy use, yes. Responsible use, no. If someone really wants memory problems, try something legal and recommended like ECT.
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2010, at 18:06:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by bleauberry on August 17, 2010, at 17:45:37
Where do you place the importance of the psychomimetic effects of marijuana and its potential to precipitate schizophrenia earlier in life? Of course, very few psychotropics are without untoward effects. However, I am curious how you weigh them against the potential benefits.
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 18:26:15
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » bleauberry, posted by SLS on August 17, 2010, at 18:06:08
>Where do you place the importance of the psychomimetic effects of marijuana and its potential to precipitate schizophrenia earlier in life? Of course, very few psychotropics are without untoward effects. However, I am curious how you weigh them against the potential benefits.
There's an interesting video somewhere on Youtube in which a no nonsense British scientist is given injections of THC in the one instance and cannabinoids in the other, and is asked about her mental state and given a questionnaire.
In the case of cannabinoids she had a typical if very positive reaction (I wish this happened to me!) where she thought the whole process was too funny to be able to perform.
In the case of the THC, she said something like 'Oh my God, I feel like someone has just died'.Many people find the difficult side of marijuana quite challenging.
Some people should certainly avoid it.
I know of people in whom it precipitated a breakdown.
My advice would be to avoid it if you don't like it, if it doesn't agree with you.
Some people will take it regardless of their reaction to it, and this is unwise.
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 18:28:12
In reply to Re: MJ never reved me up, posted by morgan miller on August 16, 2010, at 22:32:01
>Yeah it is not normal to get a hyperactive reaction to marijuana. I get hyperactive and hyperverbal on marijuana, at least I used to. I think this reaction IS paradoxical.
I wish I did.
That's right though.
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 18:29:58
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by europerep on August 16, 2010, at 3:43:43
>paradox reaction would be if it made you all introverted, silent, disinterested in stuff and so on..
Nah, it makes me pretty quiet and introverted.
If it had that effect on me (the one I don't get) I'd take it all the time.
Posted by SLS on August 17, 2010, at 18:31:50
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 18:26:15
Yes. I agree that there are probably compounds in marijuana other than THC that are responsible for its therapeutic effect.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2010, at 19:12:16
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » sigismund, posted by SLS on August 17, 2010, at 18:31:50
What about MS contin used in pain management in cancer? Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:03:10
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety » bleauberry, posted by SLS on August 17, 2010, at 18:06:08
There is simply no conclusive evidence that marijuanna actually causes schizophrenia. The other studied possibility is that those (like us) with psychiatric disorders seek to use the drug to reduce anhedonia, insomnia, depression etc. i.e. counteract schizophrenia prodrome syptoms that, for some, enevitably progresses to schizophrenia.
The highy anticholinergic TCAs have been well known to precipitate mania and psychotic states in some patients. Does that mean we get rid of the drugs? No, it just means we become more aware of possible side effects, and exercise more judicious, prudent prescription.
You're not doing anyone any favors by forcing the substance further underground to be subjected to lacing and other contamination. There's where the risk of adverse reactions is greatest.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:04:54
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 18:26:15
>I know of people in whom it precipitated a >breakdown.
I know people in whom wellbutrin has precipitated a breakdown.
I had a breakdown on parnate which required hospitalization.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:09:50
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2010, at 19:12:16
The substance cannabidol (or was it cannabinol) actually has potent *antipsychotic* effects. In animal models it counteracts the schizophrenogenic effects of ketamine and/or high dose amphetamine. Interstingly, it is devoid of the adverse motor effects of traditional antipsychotics.
Could it be that schizophrenics were initially exposed to stuff with high cannabidol content - and actually experienced improvement in psychotic state?
I remember reading about studies which suggested it was the THC / cannabidol ratio which was a predictor of the adverse effects people experienced with marijuanna. The THC will give you the "high", but other constituents are perhaps what draws psychiaric patients to it.
Posted by morgan miller on August 17, 2010, at 20:15:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:03:10
>There is simply no conclusive evidence that marijuanna actually causes schizophrenia.
Many things are not conclusive, but there is evidence. If you are genetically predisposed or possibly genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, why risk it?
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 20:29:48
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:03:10
>The highy anticholinergic TCAs have been well known to precipitate mania and psychotic states in some patients. Does that mean we get rid of the drugs? No, it just means we become more aware of possible side effects, and exercise more judicious, prudent prescription.
TCAs are made by clean cut Western scientists, whereas marijuana is smoked by Mexicans :)
We had the same thing here, except it was opium and the Chinese.
Not so much racism as xenophobia.
Posted by sigismund on August 17, 2010, at 20:32:55
In reply to Re: Marijuana as a Medication in Depress and Anxiety, posted by linkadge on August 17, 2010, at 20:09:50
>The substance cannabidol (or was it cannabinol) actually has potent *antipsychotic* effects. In animal models it counteracts the schizophrenogenic effects of ketamine and/or high dose amphetamine. Interstingly, it is devoid of the adverse motor effects of traditional antipsychotics.
>Could it be that schizophrenics were initially exposed to stuff with high cannabidol content - and actually experienced improvement in psychotic
state?Yes, it could.
I wish I could find that video on youtube. I'd post a link to it.
It looked magical to me.
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