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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 73. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
Hi Guys,
Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jedi
Posted by bulldog2 on February 1, 2010, at 14:21:48
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
> Hi Guys,
> Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
>
> My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jedi
>I used percocet for four months and it continued to have an anti depressant effect. They key is not using it all day and not taking it at bedtime. I took my dose twice a day so I guess it wasn't in my system all the time. Some on oxycontin which is time released cover themselves 24 hours a day so I guess tolerance would set in sooner.
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2010, at 17:24:56
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 1, 2010, at 14:21:48
I also took percocet for surgery cosmetic and I merely took one percocet at night and felt great. I'd ditch benzos and the dumb low dose of luvox for a tiny dose of an opiod. Phillipa
Posted by emmanuel98 on February 1, 2010, at 20:11:07
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
Well, I self-medicated with opiates for a few years and got into real trouble with them. (Tolerance builds quickly, like within days). When I went off -- boom, depression like I couldn't beleive. But I didn't want to go back on opiates for relief. They are bad news if used long term. Terrible withdrawal.
> My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jedi
>
Posted by kirbyw on February 2, 2010, at 3:50:40
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
I used Vicodin for seven years. First it was for real pain, then I noticed about a year ago, that I was beginning to use it for depression. Even a small daily dose of one or two pills (5/500) would take the edge off of my depression. But also I was feeling good without DOING anything that was directed at improving my life, such as socializing more, getting out of the house, calling friends, whatever. I could feel "content" in my emotional isolation, just staying at home all day.
So as of January, I discontinued all Vicodin, cold turkey as they say. My depression immediately worsened, but I forced myself to look for more outside social activities., and to be in touch with more people. And this has evolved pretty well over the past four weeks, and the depression has lessened. I do take 30 mg daily of Parnate and 1 mg of Clonazapam for sleep.
I miss my Vicodin which was great for getting out of bed in the morning, for insomnia, for anxiety and uncomfortable perceived physical symptoms with no apparent medical basis, for "nervousness" about going out with people, etc. etc.
My pain is now adequately controlled by Tylenol. I would like a Vicodin right now to get to sleep, because the Clonazapam is not doing anything and its 4 am.
But without the Vicodin I am making changes in my life, and that is the most important anti-depressive for me.
Vicodin is an insidious drug. It really fools you. Luckily I never let my dose get do high, so I have been able to stop without too much difficulty... I do go to N.A. meetings which also has a social benefit as well since I am meeting other addicts in recovery,who are very good people, and I am getting out of the house. Anyway, I am one month 'clean.' Yet I am aware that I could feel better emotionally tomorrow if I were just willing to go back to my Vicodin. But I won't do it.
Rick in Costa Rica
Posted by JayBTV2 on February 2, 2010, at 8:00:48
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
Just be careful if you don't have your own prescription for them. I just posted a thread (a little above this) about how my doc made me take a urine test yesterday - could lead to big problems with him since I took a percoset the day before.
And I agree w/ the other posters that if you start taking them daily you'll 1) build a tolerance and 2)experience withdrawl if you have to suddenly stop. I have a buddy who takes 6 to 7 oycodone 30mg pills a day (1 percoset is only 10mg oxycodone) techincally for back pain. If he were to stop cold turkey he'd have SERIOUS problems. IMO he uses them more to feel good overall than to really alleviate physical pain. I must admit though that he's quite functional - has a construction (project manager) job and wife, etc....
Be very careful.....
I had a problem w/ DXM (Dextromethorphan / Robotussin) which is also a mild opiod. Going on Parnate and knowning that if I drink a bottle of cough syrup now I'll probably die was the only way I managed to quit completely in 3 years....
Now after my doctor potentially knowing I failed a drug test (oxycodone doesn't show on all drug tests) and starting a legal program (Mental Health Court) for a pot arrest late last year I'm going to have to stop my opioid pill use. Sucks cause they really do make you feel better for a few hours but I'll have to learn how to say no and rely on my prescribed meds....
Posted by bulldog2 on February 2, 2010, at 10:48:28
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by kirbyw on February 2, 2010, at 3:50:40
> I used Vicodin for seven years. First it was for real pain, then I noticed about a year ago, that I was beginning to use it for depression. Even a small daily dose of one or two pills (5/500) would take the edge off of my depression. But also I was feeling good without DOING anything that was directed at improving my life, such as socializing more, getting out of the house, calling friends, whatever. I could feel "content" in my emotional isolation, just staying at home all day.
>
> So as of January, I discontinued all Vicodin, cold turkey as they say. My depression immediately worsened, but I forced myself to look for more outside social activities., and to be in touch with more people. And this has evolved pretty well over the past four weeks, and the depression has lessened. I do take 30 mg daily of Parnate and 1 mg of Clonazapam for sleep.
>
> I miss my Vicodin which was great for getting out of bed in the morning, for insomnia, for anxiety and uncomfortable perceived physical symptoms with no apparent medical basis, for "nervousness" about going out with people, etc. etc.
>
> My pain is now adequately controlled by Tylenol. I would like a Vicodin right now to get to sleep, because the Clonazapam is not doing anything and its 4 am.
> But without the Vicodin I am making changes in my life, and that is the most important anti-depressive for me.
> Vicodin is an insidious drug. It really fools you. Luckily I never let my dose get do high, so I have been able to stop without too much difficulty... I do go to N.A. meetings which also has a social benefit as well since I am meeting other addicts in recovery,who are very good people, and I am getting out of the house. Anyway, I am one month 'clean.' Yet I am aware that I could feel better emotionally tomorrow if I were just willing to go back to my Vicodin. But I won't do it.
> Rick in Costa Rica
>
>
>
>What you said is key. Any drug I take has to lead to more positive activity. I don't won't a feel good drug where I sit and bask in euphoria. When I was on the percocet I actually did get out more. Maybe because my hip pain was so bad I could actually move around in comfort.
Posted by bleauberry on February 3, 2010, at 20:33:31
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
I had minor outpatient surgery a few months and they sent me home with a prescript for 40 pills of Vicadin. I could not believe my depression of many years was completely gone on just one of those pills. Not euphoric, not high, not anything...just plain normal.
But I have enough wisdom to know the slippery slope of those meds, so I ended up using only a few for the pain. The leftovers are stashed away for an emergency which hopefully never happens. In an emergency however, I know one of those pills can lift me from the grave in a matter of hours and having me feel perfectly normal.
Posted by paulbwell on February 5, 2010, at 6:13:46
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
> Hi Guys,
> Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
>
> My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jedi
>I used to self medicate with Codeine (OTC here) 300mgs with a cup of coke would lift my mood, motivate me, was a better anxiolytic than Valium.
They changed the formula and now i can seperate the Codeine.
First off i never abused/was addicted to anything until i went to see a Psych at age 31, he diagnosed me adult ADD?HD and gave me 20mgs daily Ritalin, i am now scripted 100mgs, and picked up 35 20mgSRs 2 days ago (700mgs MPD) and have 1 left.
I used to think Ritalin was a mild kiddies pill for school, i NOW KNOW why it's a sch ll med, along with D-amphetamine, script Methamphetamine and L@D amphetamine salt pills and is a strictly controlled drug.
I wish i knew.
Posted by jedi on February 5, 2010, at 12:40:17
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » jedi, posted by paulbwell on February 5, 2010, at 6:13:46
Hi Paul,
I live in Washington State and used to buy codeine OTC in British Columbia as well. Then they added dextromethorphan or pseudoephedrine to it and ruined it. Oh Well!Sorry about the methelphenidate addiction. What are you going to do to taper off the stuff?
Good Luck,
Jedi
>
> I used to self medicate with Codeine (OTC here) 300mgs with a cup of coke would lift my mood, motivate me, was a better anxiolytic than Valium.
>
> They changed the formula and now i can seperate the Codeine.
>
> First off i never abused/was addicted to anything until i went to see a Psych at age 31, he diagnosed me adult ADD?HD and gave me 20mgs daily Ritalin, i am now scripted 100mgs, and picked up 35 20mgSRs 2 days ago (700mgs MPD) and have 1 left.
>
> I used to think Ritalin was a mild kiddies pill for school, i NOW KNOW why it's a sch ll med, along with D-amphetamine, script Methamphetamine and L@D amphetamine salt pills and is a strictly controlled drug.
>
> I wish i knew.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 7, 2010, at 10:16:17
In reply to Opioids for Depression, posted by jedi on February 1, 2010, at 13:52:59
I just posted a message about my experience with Dilaudid, but in reading your post I recalled that in 1987, when I was 24, in college, I found an old bottle of Percodan in my boyfriend's house and asked if I could take one. He can't tolerate pain meds, so he said sure, it's all yours.
For the next two weeks I was in heaven. I hadn't been diagnosed for panic disorder at that point, but up to that point, as much as I loved college, I was scared every single day. On Percodan, however, I found that I could do anything (like speak up in class), felt 100% confident and fearless, and I did better work than I ever did before in my life. Sleep was wonderful.
Then I ran out of pills the night before I had to go to a day-long seminar. I was a wreck. All the magic was dead and gone. It didn't take long for me to withdraw, but I really wanted to try it again, so I went to my boyfriend's dentist, feigning a toothache, and he prescribed me some more.
Strangely, the Percodan I got this time (compared to the vintage bottle from c. 1982), made me sick to my stomach and barely produced any worthwhile buzz. I've noticed that about nearly all prescription opiates since then. Were drug companies forced to add a component to produce nausea instead of euphoria in order to discourage addiction? It sure discouraged me from taking any more Percodan.
But what I wouldn't give to feel that good again....
> Hi Guys,
> Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
>
> My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Jedi
>
Posted by bulldog2 on February 7, 2010, at 13:45:24
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » jedi, posted by Cherry Carver on February 7, 2010, at 10:16:17
> I just posted a message about my experience with Dilaudid, but in reading your post I recalled that in 1987, when I was 24, in college, I found an old bottle of Percodan in my boyfriend's house and asked if I could take one. He can't tolerate pain meds, so he said sure, it's all yours.
>
> For the next two weeks I was in heaven. I hadn't been diagnosed for panic disorder at that point, but up to that point, as much as I loved college, I was scared every single day. On Percodan, however, I found that I could do anything (like speak up in class), felt 100% confident and fearless, and I did better work than I ever did before in my life. Sleep was wonderful.
>
> Then I ran out of pills the night before I had to go to a day-long seminar. I was a wreck. All the magic was dead and gone. It didn't take long for me to withdraw, but I really wanted to try it again, so I went to my boyfriend's dentist, feigning a toothache, and he prescribed me some more.
>
> Strangely, the Percodan I got this time (compared to the vintage bottle from c. 1982), made me sick to my stomach and barely produced any worthwhile buzz. I've noticed that about nearly all prescription opiates since then. Were drug companies forced to add a component to produce nausea instead of euphoria in order to discourage addiction? It sure discouraged me from taking any more Percodan.
>
> But what I wouldn't give to feel that good again....
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Guys,
> > Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
> >
> > My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Jedi
> >
>
>I agree with you. Did you get real percocet or one of the many generics out there? Some of them are real crappy.
Brand name oxycontin which has the same naroctic ingrediant as perocet (oxycodone) is very nice.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:50:08
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by kirbyw on February 2, 2010, at 3:50:40
Kirby, yeah, I have pain that comes and goes. I find a Vicodin ( half to a whole 5/500) helps in every way--and it made me a little nervous to discover the mood enhancing effect.
I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
I have a tiny bottle and use judiciously when the back pain becomes too great. I don't need addiction issues on top of everything else.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:59:50
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » jedi, posted by paulbwell on February 5, 2010, at 6:13:46
I'm sorry Paul. How do you think you'll address your addiction?
How long until you developed tolerance? I write my consumption down daily and share with my doc as a precaution. Still....
Good luck,
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 18:03:56
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 2, 2010, at 10:48:28
Bulldog, for real pain, they are a boon. Pain causes so many other conditions ands needs to be treated. Ad effects are a bonus to enjoy.
Posted by conundrum on February 7, 2010, at 20:05:47
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 17:50:08
<I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
Nope
Posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 7, 2010, at 20:05:47
> <I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
> NopeReally? I'm surprised. Hmmmm.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 6:10:58
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 7, 2010, at 13:45:24
What I took was Percodan. (The only difference between the two brand names is that Percodan has aspirin in it, while Percocet contains acetominophen.) I have never let anyone prescribe me Oxycontin because I've heard so many good things about it *LOL* that I'm afraid I'd get addicted! Maybe I should go for it next time I have the chance.
Nights were so peaceful on that ancient Percodan. I loved the sensation of sleeping literally on a cloud. It was as close to my idea of heaven as I have ever been.
> > I just posted a message about my experience with Dilaudid, but in reading your post I recalled that in 1987, when I was 24, in college, I found an old bottle of Percodan in my boyfriend's house and asked if I could take one. He can't tolerate pain meds, so he said sure, it's all yours.
> >
> > For the next two weeks I was in heaven. I hadn't been diagnosed for panic disorder at that point, but up to that point, as much as I loved college, I was scared every single day. On Percodan, however, I found that I could do anything (like speak up in class), felt 100% confident and fearless, and I did better work than I ever did before in my life. Sleep was wonderful.
> >
> > Then I ran out of pills the night before I had to go to a day-long seminar. I was a wreck. All the magic was dead and gone. It didn't take long for me to withdraw, but I really wanted to try it again, so I went to my boyfriend's dentist, feigning a toothache, and he prescribed me some more.
> >
> > Strangely, the Percodan I got this time (compared to the vintage bottle from c. 1982), made me sick to my stomach and barely produced any worthwhile buzz. I've noticed that about nearly all prescription opiates since then. Were drug companies forced to add a component to produce nausea instead of euphoria in order to discourage addiction? It sure discouraged me from taking any more Percodan.
> >
> > But what I wouldn't give to feel that good again....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi Guys,
> > > Every time I have taken opioids short term, they have helped my depression. I'm sure that many of the addicts using street drugs or fraudulently obtained prescription medications are self medicating for depression.
> > >
> > > My question is: Has anybody, currently on this board, ever obtained long term relief from major depression using opioids? Any positive or negative experiences will be appreciated.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jedi
> > >
> >
> >
>
> I agree with you. Did you get real percocet or one of the many generics out there? Some of them are real crappy.
>
> Brand name oxycontin which has the same naroctic ingrediant as perocet (oxycodone) is very nice.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 6:17:26
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
Great comment, floatingbridge...I sure responded to them! ;)
Did you create your own mood chart or did someone give you one to fill in? I love the concept!
> > <I keep a mood chart and my doc remarked upon that--that I responded to opiates. Yeah, I said, doesn't everyone?
> > Nope
>
> Really? I'm surprised. Hmmmm.
>
>
Posted by conundrum on February 8, 2010, at 7:00:44
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by floatingbridge on February 7, 2010, at 22:45:40
Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 9:25:47
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by conundrum on February 8, 2010, at 7:00:44
> Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
I'm so curious I'm going to run this by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
fb
Posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 9:51:14
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 9:25:47
> > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
>
> Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
>
> I'm so curious I'm going to run this by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
>
> fbThere is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 10:26:57
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » floatingbridge, posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 9:51:14
> > > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
> >
> > Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
> >
> > I'm so curious I'm going to run this
by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
> >
> > fb
>
> There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
Thnx Bulldog
Posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 18:16:08
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression » bulldog2, posted by floatingbridge on February 8, 2010, at 10:26:57
> > > > Sad but true. Atleast for me. I truly don't understand it either. I also have some low grade joint pains like many depressives and they don't help much with that either.
> > >
> > > Conundrum, that is odd, and I'm sorry, too. Have you found things that do work for you?
> > >
> > > I'm so curious I'm going to run this
> by my pdoc. Anything interesting and I'll. post back.
> > >
> > > fb
> >
> > There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
> why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
>
> Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
>
> Thnx Bulldog
>No endogenous means made within your body. There are opiate receptors in your body and the body makes its own opiates (endogenous) for these receptors. perhaps some do not make enough of these feel good neurotransmitters. I guess these opiates are what you referred to as endorphins.
Posted by Cherry Carver on February 8, 2010, at 19:08:38
In reply to Re: Opioids for Depression, posted by bulldog2 on February 8, 2010, at 18:16:08
Fascinating discussion! One would think that if some kinds of depression are relieved by opioids, doctors would prescribe it more often instead of screwing around with SSRIs and NSRIs, etc, which made me really sick.
Do opiates stimulate the endorphins, create more endorphins, or just hit the pleasure center in one's brain? I know next to nothing about the structure or chemistry of the brain, so forgive me if my questions sound really stupid. Couldn't someone invent a drug that stimulates endorphin production without doping people up or making them sick?
> > > There is a hypothesis that some depressions may be caused by a shortage of endogenous opoids. That's
> > why some people say painkillers have no effect on their mood and other people respond well to them.
> >
> > Oh. Endogenous--not related to endorphins? I'll Google.
> >
> > Thnx Bulldog
> >
>
> No endogenous means made within your body. There are opiate receptors in your body and the body makes its own opiates (endogenous) for these receptors. perhaps some do not make enough of these feel good neurotransmitters. I guess these opiates are what you referred to as endorphins.
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