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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:19:50
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:46:55
> :(
> I think I remember you saying something about that you cannot or don't want to take any amitriptyline, or mirtazapine is that true? Otherwise I'd suggest that, or mirtazapine or mianserine.
> Have you thought of trying low dose doxepine or another strong antihistamine? Maybe a combination?
> A benzo with an even shorter half life that doesn't leave you foggy the whole next day? A combo with trazodone?Amitriptaline doesn't make me tired in the least.
Hum, maybe doxepin. Does that work well?
I don't want to take Mirtazapine because of the weight gain and my anorexia.
My pdoc was suppose to get back to me today, but he didn't. I was hoping he would have a plan B.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:20:37
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sigismund on October 26, 2009, at 15:58:56
Temazapam does nothing to me. I just lay there. Maybe benzos are the answer.
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:23:22
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by Sunbath on October 26, 2009, at 13:46:55
How much Doxepin would you recommend given that it takes a lot to knock me out?
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:39:25
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » Sunbath, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 16:23:22
Sigh. My doctor never contacted me. :(
Posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:51:27
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:39:25
How much Doxepin if I go with Doxepin. 25 mg?
Posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 26, 2009, at 18:51:27
Hey Maxime, Mogadon is one of the most powerful hypnotic benzo's available, 2nd to Rohypnol and very closely related.
Mogadon (nitrazepam)
Rohypnol (flunitrazepam)It's the best for severe insomnia. If you can get it in your country, just get some. I've used it on and off for years. Nothing beats it except for Rohypnol which you can still get here too but it's like asking for heroin.
Mogadon is by far the best hypnotic benzo on the market unless your country still allows the use of rohypnol.
It does make you a bit drowsy the next day but it's nothing like the bloody awful feeling you get from AP's and TCA's which I hate!!!!!
I think you'd have much better luck getting Mogadon than barbituates. I'm sure you've tried Valium or Rivotril/Klonopin (clonazepam), they can help too. Clonazepam is also the 3rd benzo from that class, but it's hypnotic effects aren't as strong, it more of an anxiety/epileptic, whereas mogadon is a hypnotic/epileptic benzo
Good luck and sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, freaky time zone difference. Peace C
Posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:10:39
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
I'm going to try. The database that has all the meds in it is down so I can't see if it's available. Thank you so much for your suggestions.
Posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 26, 2009, at 21:12:12
No sleep tonight. I took 8 mg of Ativian at 10 pm and it's not 1:15 pm. Shite.
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 0:22:23
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
No problem at all, can you get to your doc tomorrow? Insomnia blows. Good luck!!!
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 27, 2009, at 1:37:51
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 0:22:23
Hi Maxie:
I'm sorry I don't know much of anything about sleep meds. I just wanted you to know I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with sleeping. That's a real bummer. I wish I had a magic wand.
I hope you and/or your doc come up with something soon. I don't think you want to mess around with Ativan very much.
There has got to be something out there that will work. I'm crossing my fingers.Hugs to you,
Gayle
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 1:51:38
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by maxime on October 27, 2009, at 0:11:30
> No sleep tonight. I took 8 mg of Ativian at 10 pm and it's not 1:15 pm. Shite.
Ativan does nothing for me either, I'd take 3 or 4, 2.5mg tabs and nothing, whereas my sister would be out cold from 1 of them, same with temazepam and serax/serapax. They just don't work on me at all. Hang in there, it will be OK! I know how horrible and scary it is when you're on the edge from sleep deprivation. You'll get through this. Peace C
Posted by Sunbath on October 27, 2009, at 4:43:27
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please » maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 1:51:38
Hi Maxime,
I really feel with you, that's so terrible :(
You gotta get something now.
Ativan is not especially known for its sedating qualities.. it's one of the least sedating benzos I believe.
I might be wrong, but when Scott suggested halcion + ativan, I think he considered Ativan more as an augmentor for the hypnotic (Halcion)?Doxepine was in phase 3 trials as "silenor" for use as a sleep aid (promoted as nearly "side effect free".. which was no wonder at the doses used) where they used only 1-7mg when I remember correctly. I don't know what happened to Silenor and whether it got an approval or not.
I once tried 25mg and it knocked me out, but was also foggy the next day (that may have passed) which I didn't like.
25mg to me, which doesn't mean much ;) , sounds like a good dose to start when you are so "treatment resistent".Maybe a synergistic combination would do it?
Do antihistamines make you tired at all?
Did you ever try a "pure" one maybe as an otc sleep aid and did it help? I just wonder because you said amitriptyline wasn't sedating you at all and I think ami's sedating properties mostly come from its H1 antagonistic properties.. Anyway it's also a potent nri so that could have countered the sedation in your case? I don't know..
Did you once take mirtazapine or did you avoid it from the beginning because of the weight gain issue?If you tried it: did it make you tired back then?
If it was, maybe a combination of an antihistamine + trazodone (which is very weak as an antihistamine) or another sedating AD would do it?
Since trazodone was helping you in the past, did you try taking it with the benzo? Although there are no interactions it might add to the sleep promoting effect?BTW: It's probably b*llsh*t and just a crazy idea, but I just got it and wanted to share, maybe someone more experienced could tell what she/he thinks:
I once tried baclofen a GABA-B agonist. It made me really REALLY tired and ready for sleep. Just like a benzo it relaxed muscles and made me extremely drowsy and sleepy.
Maybe it's a stupid idea and I don't really know if it was even harmful.
But I'd really wonder if there wasn't some kind of synergism when combining that with a benzo (gaba-a agent + gaba-b agonist?).
However maybe a sedating antidepressant + an antihistamine + maybe trazodone (for synergism) would be much better than just benzos.
Doxepine, as you probably know anyway, is also a big weight gainer :( There is no sedating antidepressant that doesn't "officially" cause weight gain, except trazodone I believe. But maybe it wouldn't cause weight gain in YOU, especially not when only on a low dose? I really don't know.I really hope you get in touch with your doc today and that he'll know what to do!
Try not to feel too sad and hopeless about your insomnia. There are so many options left you can try. You will find something that works, I'm sure!!Keeping my fingers crossed for you!The best of luck!
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 16:20:32
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Sunbath on October 27, 2009, at 4:43:27
I am going to try Mogadon and/or Dalmane. I wasn't sure from my doctor email if I would be on them both.
Hopefully I will be able get them tomorrow.
I'm a mess.
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:04:07
In reply to Re: Sleep suggestions please, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 16:20:32
I don't need to go to the hospital. But I about 15 2 mg of Ativan last to end the pain of not being able to sleep. Results were that I woke up at 3:30 pm with my mum yelling at me. If she hadn't been yelling I probably would still be asleep.
Sleep meds are so dangerous. I just wanted to relief. I didn't want to die but if I had it would have been nice.
Just be careful out there with those meds.
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 17:33:51
In reply to Confession to make ... I OD'd, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:04:07
maybe you should go to the hospital to get checked out right now. Concerned C
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:43:15
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » Maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 17:33:51
No, I am alert now. Getting ready to go and walk the dog. There is only so much they can do after a number of hours have past and this was at 12:30 am. I am going to get more careful tonight. I was just feeling so desperate and I was hearing voices. I don't hear the voices any more. My pdoc is supposed to phone in a prescription for Modogon. He said he uses it often. Last of sleep is nothing to play with. Thanks for caring.
Posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 18:56:55
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » cactus, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:43:15
I can't believe he uses it and has never offered it to you, especially when he knows how much trouble you're having sleeping. Enjoy your walk, peace C
Posted by Phillipa on October 27, 2009, at 18:59:06
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » cactus, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:43:15
Reminds me of that strange time when the pdoc here wanted a base line on me was only on 50mg of luvox stopped it gave me long acting xanax 6mg which didn't let me sleep then up to 8mg ativan which didn't take. Didn't sleep for two weeks went to ER and the doc was scratching his head said he'd consulted with the big hospital uptown that has the pdocs and couldn't figure it out. Said obviously luvox is doing something so go back of valium and luvox. did and slept. At the time didn't even think that luvox that low could cause withdrawal???? Phillipa so assuming you have the med for tonight?
Posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 22:02:40
In reply to Re: Sleep » Maxime, posted by cactus on October 27, 2009, at 18:56:55
He called in the med too late so I can't get it tonight but I will pick it up tomorrow. My pdoc is 87 years old and the most obvious thoughts aren't that obvious anymore. :)
Posted by floatingbridge on October 27, 2009, at 22:16:54
In reply to Confession to make ... I OD'd, posted by Maxime on October 27, 2009, at 17:04:07
Maxine,
I am so glad you're alright! Jeez, I'm worried, too. So you get your new med tomorrow? What are you doing tonight?
hugs!
fb
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2009, at 15:22:59
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 27, 2009, at 22:16:54
I didn't take anything last night but it didn't matter because I hadn't taken the Parnate since I woke up at 3:30 pm. So tonight I am taking Mogadon as suggested by Cactus and approved by my pdoc. My pdoc said he uses it a lot.
Posted by Maxime on October 28, 2009, at 16:57:06
In reply to Re: Confession to make ... I OD'd » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on October 28, 2009, at 15:22:59
I passed out today while walking. I have a black eye. I don't know if it is from lack of sleep or hypotension from the Parnate. Either way it hurts like a bitch and is ugly
Posted by floatingbridge on October 28, 2009, at 17:39:20
In reply to I fainted today, posted by Maxime on October 28, 2009, at 16:57:06
Maxine,
Oh you dear woman. I hope you weren't alone. Fainting is frightening, and I'm sorry about your eye--eyouch! I've heard on board here that parnate can do that to people. I forget, but a recent thread, and SLS commented on how to avoid the effects of walking up stairs (or something like that--sorry Scott!).
Do you have any alt remedies on hand? Arnica gels keep blood from stagnating and speed along bruise healing.
Oh sweetie, kudos to you for hiking, though.
Hugs & an ice pack,
fb
Posted by cactus on October 28, 2009, at 18:01:09
In reply to Re: I fainted today » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 28, 2009, at 17:39:20
oh you are having a really bad run Maxime, take care, hugs, C.
Arnica is amazing as FB suggested. Do you think it could be from missing a dose of Parnate the other day?PS did you get your script yet?
Posted by cactus on October 28, 2009, at 18:58:56
In reply to I fainted today, posted by Maxime on October 28, 2009, at 16:57:06
h you are having a really bad run Maxime, take care, hugs, C.
Arnica is amazing as FB suggested. Do you think it could be from missing a dose of Parnate the other day?PS did you get your script yet?
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