![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 90. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
I've been suffering from suicidal depression, and severe inability to sleep from January 2006. I withdrew off Lexapro in September 2005, and I'm sure that this all started as a result of my 4.5 years on antidepressants (starting in 2001). I've been psychiatrically hospitalized about 6 times since January 06, and of course these doctors cannot offer anything besides their poisonous drugs that make me even sicker and more suicidal!
The worst part is that my body has become severely intolerant of virtually every drug (not just psych drugs, all drugs in general). So I have this suicidal depression and severe insomnia, and at the same time nothing can relieve it AT ALL. I do take Seroquel 300, Ambien 10mg, and Klonopin 1mg, but they barely work.
Is it possible that my body is so allergic/intolerant to all these drugs because of Adrenal Exhaustion? Is that a possibility? I definitely match all the symptoms of "cortisol deficiency". Can this be the answer to my misery?
Please help.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 31, 2009, at 1:27:36
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
> I've been suffering from suicidal depression, and severe inability to sleep from January 2006. I withdrew off Lexapro in September 2005, and I'm sure that this all started as a result of my 4.5 years on antidepressants (starting in 2001). I've been psychiatrically hospitalized about 6 times since January 06, and of course these doctors cannot offer anything besides their poisonous drugs that make me even sicker and more suicidal!
>
> The worst part is that my body has become severely intolerant of virtually every drug (not just psych drugs, all drugs in general). So I have this suicidal depression and severe insomnia, and at the same time nothing can relieve it AT ALL. I do take Seroquel 300, Ambien 10mg, and Klonopin 1mg, but they barely work.
>
> Is it possible that my body is so allergic/intolerant to all these drugs because of Adrenal Exhaustion? Is that a possibility? I definitely match all the symptoms of "cortisol deficiency". Can this be the answer to my misery?
>
> Please help.Yes, I definately think thats a possibility. Don't give up because current meds aren't working. You could be on the right track that adrenal deficiency, cortisol, or some other deficiency is causing problems for you. I would suggest contacting your GP and have the whole work up done. Have Doc refer you, Endo I would think.
Good luck. Stick around, you'll get some other ideas.
~Jade
Posted by Garnet71 on January 31, 2009, at 1:46:01
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Hey, Gman, hang in there buddy. What can we do to help?
Lack of sleep is torture - I do understand. What you could do to fix this for the short term, to hang in there, is go to the hospital (but stay away from the psych unit) and demand some tests. Be assertive, but not overly emotional (this is hard but try your best). A good doctor will recognize the severity of sleep deprivation and you will tell him/her how serious your case is; at the very least, you could ask the doctor to write a script for a 24-hour cortisol test. There is no reason why they couldn't write a script for a harmless test...You can do the test the very next day, and get your lab results back within a couple of days. This would at least give you some peace of mind - a sense of control over your situation - while you go right now and call your therapist or crisis line asap.
I think the important thing is, for right now, is knowing this CAN and WILL be fixed and that you can do something to get yourself out of the situation. It's not hopeless-you have some control-there are things you can do. Sometimes we get so overburdened by the feelings of hopelessness, that we don't see the alternatives and possibilites being the veil of despair.
Adrenal tumors are not that uncommon - you must mention this concern to the doctor. The problem is, when one explains past history of any mental health issues, the docs tend to look at you only through a psych lens. This is why you must try to not be emotional, but be serious; be assertive, and....ask the doc, in a tactful way, that you are not comfortable as to what would PHYSICALLY happen to you if you were to not get PHYSICAL tests and if you were to go without sleep any longer. In a tactful way, ask ask them if they would be willing to be responsible for missing any serious medical issues you may have (if they only think in terms of mental health). This last resort tactic has worked for me before. Of course you must tell them about your suicidal feelings - as anyone would feel with lack of chronic sleep. Speak of it in that context.
I'm sorry I can't be more helpful to you Gman, but if you are not thinking as clear as you normally do, I wanted to offer a suggestion as best as I could. You sound like a bright, witty, and nice person; please hang in there by first going to the hospital (not psych ward), being assertive, and calling a crisis line to speak with someone who most likely has better suggestions than I do.
I'm rooting for you Gman...This too shall pass.
Hugs and best wishes. Please do write back as soon as it is convenient for you.(((((Gman))))))
Posted by SLS on January 31, 2009, at 7:16:42
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Hi.
I have experienced suicidality also, but not for the length of time you have. I don't know what to say to you to make you feel better. However, I would still remain hopeful. There are many, many combinations of drugs that I doubt you have tried yet. Until recently, I have been treated without success. Doctors first started with me in 1982. Indescribable pain and misery every day for 25 years. Eventually, I became numb to everything around me and could not function at all. Yet, I finally found a combination that works.
Currently:
Parnate
desipramine
Lamictal
Abilify
At this point, I wouldn't recommend to you a specific treatment. I will say this, though, Zyprexa is probably your best choice to bring you out of a severe suicidal depression. However, with psychiatric drugs and mental illness there are no guarantees.Are you bipolar?
> I definitely match all the symptoms of "cortisol deficiency". Can this be the answer to my misery?
What are these symptoms?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 31, 2009, at 10:30:08
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
G man how are you today? Did you call a crisis line? Hoping you did or visited the ER and had someone else drive. I'm sorry just saw this. But what's your status today? I care Phillipa
Posted by jms600 on January 31, 2009, at 12:58:54
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
I really think you should ask your doctor for adrenal gland/cortisol tests as soon as possible.
I'm no expert but maybe it's worth having some blood tests for thyroid function too.
If you are suicidal then you must go to your local A & E - I know hospitals are unpleasant, but they offer you the best chance of full recovery.
I hope your suffering ends and you find complete remission. Please take care.
Posted by garnet71 on January 31, 2009, at 15:15:09
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Gman, you doin okay?
Posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 18:03:42
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on January 31, 2009, at 10:30:08
> G man how are you today? Did you call a crisis line? Hoping you did or visited the ER and had someone else drive. I'm sorry just saw this. But what's your status today? I care Phillipa
Phillipa, I've been to the ER about 20 times in the past 3 years, all for the same depression and sleep deprivation. Last time in the ER, they shot me with Haldol which almost gave me a seizure....
Anytime you say that you're suicidal, there's only one place they put you: The Psych Ward. I've been in the Psych ward 7 times in the past 3 years... and the doctors are very ignorant to the fact that their drugs make you feel a lot worse...
Posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 18:09:39
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on January 31, 2009, at 15:15:09
I just went to my holistic doctor today. He gave me an Adrenal Stress INdex test, and I will get the results next week.
He also gave me a supplement called "Adrenotone", which he said should help with energy and mood.
I really hope that my adrenals are the cause of this misery. I've looked in every other possible direction.
Posted by SLS on January 31, 2009, at 19:35:35
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 18:09:39
> I just went to my holistic doctor today. He gave me an Adrenal Stress INdex test, and I will get the results next week.
>
> He also gave me a supplement called "Adrenotone", which he said should help with energy and mood.
>
> I really hope that my adrenals are the cause of this misery. I've looked in every other possible direction.
Good luck.Please let us know how this treatment works for you.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on January 31, 2009, at 20:02:28
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Many psych drugs suppress cortisol function, so if you have hypoadrenalism it is no wonder they make you feel worse. Exquisite sensitivies is also a hallmark of low cortisol.
The test you need is from an Integrative MD, Alternative MD, or Naturopath. You can also order it online by mail without a doctor. It is called the Adrenal Stress Index. Searches might include that, as well as something like home lab tests.
The test measures cortisol 6 hours apart throughout 24 hours. Spit into 4 test tubes. It shows the daily curve and whether it is below or above where it should be, and at what times of the day or all day. If an MD or Endo tests you, they will take a single blood sample that tells you absolutely nothing. They might do a challenge to see how the adrenal responds, which again tells you nothing other than whether the adrenal is totally dead or alive, but nothing inbetween.
I have a theory, pure theory, that ssris and remeron with longterm use can cause hypoadrenalism by burning out the adrenal glands trying to work so hard to keep up. But it is most often blamed on too much stress, which in your case certainly fits.
Most people feel a ton better on either licorice root extract, adrenal cortex extract, or low dose hydrocortisone. But, usually one and not another. And in many cases it ends up being hydrocortisone that is needed, in physiological replacement doses of 2mg to 20mg max. Not the high doses used for other things. You just want to replace what is missing and give the adrenals a rest without shutting them down. Without getting tested, you could even do a challenge test yourself and see if these things help at all. Licorice and adrenal cortex are easy to get. If you rub hydrocortisone cream on a thin-skinned part of your body some of it will absorb into the blood. It usually takes a week or two to see.
Almost everyone suffering from amalgam illness has hypoadrenalism and psych issues. If you have, or ever had, silver fillings, you need to get them out, replaced with white fillings, and buy the book Amalgam Illness.
I would also mention Lyme, but that gets into a little more lengthy discussion. Please do take an hour or two to do a search on websites that specialize in Lyme to see the symptoms, see if you see yourself, get to know the physiology of Lyme and why it is so unrecognized and underdiagnosed. It mimics psychiatrict issues, especially when psych drugs make things worse. That is a strong clue. But low cortisol or heavy metals give the same clue.
The main thing is hope. Getting some medical answers that have not been offered yet opens up a whole new chapter of hope. Believe me, when it comes to difficult psych issues, there are other heavy hitting chapters in the book besides just psychiatry. That's why the folks on the psych wards have been so impotent in helping you. Their job is to stabilize you, but not to know a thing about what is causing you to feel so bad.
A healthy way to distract oneself from the pounding burdensome weight of suicidal thoughts is to absorb oneself online to discover what it is that is making you feel so bad that doctors aren't considering. If you've ever seen the show Medical Mysteries, there are hundreds of people just like you who in the midst of hopelessness and frustration discovered through their own hunting and escape what their diagnosis was.
In terms of meds, I agree with SLS that Zyprexa is a good choice to cross taper away from Seroquel. Zyprexa is known for anti-suicide where Seroquel is not. For some reason, Prozac and Zyprexa go together like magic, often taking bedridden disasters and getting them back to life in as little as week. With sensitivities, you would want to INSIST of brand name Lilly Prozac, NOT a generic. For custom small doses empty a capsule into orange juice. Drink 1/4 glass of 10mg for a 2.5mg dose, for example. Or just a sip for 1mg. Stir well each time, store in the fridge for a week.
Lots of hope. I say that because common things that fit your description with high suspicion are wide open for inspection.
At this board we focus on psych meds to relieve sytmptoms. I could show you hundreds or cases of people with absolutely crushing hopeless psych issues that were totally cured with non-psych meds. That's because the depression all along wasn't a psych issue. It was the brain under insult from something else gone awry in the body.
Either way, Zyprexa or Zyprexa with Prozac sounds like a decent move.
Posted by Garnet71 on February 1, 2009, at 0:33:57
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Gman,
I'm glad you were able to do something about your situation. I understand the psych ward issues.
About the hospital strategy I mentioned...When my sister had her nervous breakdown with severe delusions/mania, I was caring for her and had to take her the the mental hospital 5 days in a row. Three times were about an 8 hour wait. She had come off heroin and oxycontin for a month prior on her own w/o treatment; I found out later that anyone who does this w/o help will have a mental breakdown...Now not to be selfish, and aside from the fact that I was a week away from final exams for the semester...and my mother, who she was staying with while staying clean, was having a semi-breakdown as well and ignored her mental deterioration in her own denial...sis did not sleep during these 5 days and it was not possible for me to care for her 24 hours a day, and I was scared that she would get hurt due to the nature of the mania. Not to mention it was exhausting having to play a role in the delusions, doing everything she asked me to do to keep her occupied w/o getting hurt or her freaking out - even though I am the calmest person in the world while in a crisis, I could only take so much. We would go to the ER each night, and they would NOT prescribe anything. Okay, the first and second time, I thought well maybe they just want to see how this all plays out, or maybe it will cease on its own shortly. Then it got to the point where I could not handle it anymore and what worried me was what would happen to her if she did not sleep for a week? Even when she told the pdocs she was God, indicating possible invincibility characterization, they would not give her a drug to stop the madness (preferably their madness). She could not get an appt. with a pdoc for a month, and the ER pdocs told me they could not give her a medication each time we went. I begged them, and kept taking my sister back for help.
Finally I came to my senses and it was only when I threatened them with a lawsuit (I had in the past always tried to be a 'good' patient, don't want to be the 'difficult' person, too demanding, blah blah blah..)that they suddenly could prescribe something and were able to give her emergency outpatient Pdoc appointments during the day! Well she ended up committing herself a couple of days later anyway, which lasted about a week. I visited her everyday and absolutely could not believe how badly she was treated there. Later when she got the files for disaiblity application, they had written "drug seeking" and also that they could not determine whether the patient was acting or was really having a mental breakdown. The latter looked like they added it later (probably since I mentioned suing, I suspect). Geez, with that mania and the delusions, and I told them this, I could not watch her 24/7; she could have run out in the street, thought she could fly, anything. Unbelievable. You have no idea how manic she was - I do not see how it is possible to fake that unless you are Jack Nicholson!!! Oh but they loved just watching her talk and being a guinea pig for the med students. So - my advice if you get a bad rap at the hospital - say something that will indicate that if something happens to you as a result of them denying treatment or tests or medications - you will sue!
Another thing about ER visits - lie. This is not immoral or unethnical. This is to protect yourself. If you feel like mentioning suicidal thoughts will get you locked up, but think other treatment would help you more or serve you better - you might want to consider this. Lie about whatever you need to. One time I was at the ER after being awake for 3 days straight w/anxiety - they let me almost lose my mind when they could have given me one little harmless pill to save me from suffering a potential nervous breakdown. Well, the 2nd question the ER doc asked me when he came in the room was if I had used illegal drugs in the past. Being the normally honest and uninhibited person I am - I say yes. He then asked which drugs - so I named 2. He left the room right after this and I was left there overnight with no treatment until a psychiatrist was in their office in the morning. What they guy didn't ask me was the context of drug use - it was 20 years ago!!! And only recreational - I was not and never said I was an addict. These medical professionals are insane. If that happens to me again - or someone I am caring for - I am suing. I didn't have the mental energy at the time to consider it, but next time, I am documenting EVERYTHING, and asking for a witness to come in the room. I have never thought about suing a doctor before, and there have been mistakes made. These are not mistakes. This is cruelty; prisoners get treated better. How dare they watch you lose your mind and suffer when they have the ability to help you until you are able to be treated by a doctor. That is the nature of emergency treatment - to get help when you can't get an appointment or need immediate treatment.
You are probably an expert at this point with ER visits, and maybe I'm wasting my typing here, but I don't know if you had tried that before, and wanted to get these thoughts out into the universe. Do take good care of yourself...I really hope you are on to a cure for your condition and wish you well. Bleauberry has a lot of good advice for you. If you ever want to talk, I'll be over at the alternative board.
:)
Posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by Garnet71 on February 1, 2009, at 0:33:57
Garnet71,
I have been to so many forums and sites talking about these horrific issues of mine... and I have never gotten an answer so sincere or heartfelt as yours..
I definitely think you know how I feel... Your words just jumped off the screen right into my heart and mind.
Its just so sad that a person can't really trust a Doctor, because the doctor's agenda isn't YOUR welfare, but rather the welfare of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies which control these doctors like puppets. Doctors are such greedy F*cking pricks, it enrages me so badly!!
Posted by bleauberry on February 1, 2009, at 9:27:05
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
> Its just so sad that a person can't really trust a Doctor, because the doctor's agenda isn't YOUR welfare, but rather the welfare of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies which control these doctors like puppets. Doctors are such greedy F*cking pricks, it enrages me so badly!!
I think there are 4 different kinds of doctors:
1. Sincere, caring, and concerned but lacking in the talent for your particular disease symptomatology. Not able to identify your problem and unqualified to treat it.
2. Arrogant, egotistical, self-anointed "know it alls." They usually say, "Lyme disease doesn't exist in the south. I have spoken. You are just depressed. I have spoken. Don't argue with me, I have spoken, etc., etc." These types are usually "specialists" in their chosen fields, i.e. neurologists, psychiatrists, endocrinologists, rheumatologists, cardiologists, infectious disease, etc. These doctors are very dangerous indeed because they typically represent the pinnacle of authority and credibility. How many patients have suffered years of misery before finally dying as a result of not seeking additional opinions for their sickness because they "trusted the specialist" and felt any further searching for answers would have been futile? Avoid these types totally if at all possible. Otherwise, be prepared to begin listing your pallbearers and hanging black crepe around your house.
3. The don't know, don't care types. These are typically found in busy clinics or hospital emergency rooms. Basic tests will be performed and you will be summarily ignored when the tests reveal nothing. Anti-depressants may be prescribed or a referral to a psychiatrist may be recommended. The environment is assembly line medicine. Take a number and wait. When seen, the doctor will seem preoccupied with other concerns and your visit will rarely exceed eight minutes of duration.
4. The passionate cutting edge type. These are deeply in love with their work so much they would probably do it for free if they had to. They can't wait to get to work each day. They stay on top of daily medical advances and theories a decade before they hit medical schools. They know traditional medicine better than their peers, and on top of that they know the results of a clinical study just published yesterday. They probably got straight A's in medical school. They embrace the challenge to take bedridden disasters and turn them into winners, almost as if a silent angel were asking them "I dare you, let me see how good you are." They are humble and deeply caring. Their peers would say, "So-n-so is VERY thorough". They take their chosen responsibility to defeat disease with serious passion.
Obviously we need more of #4 above. In my experience maybe 1 out of every 20 is like that, which is what, 5%? They exist but are hard to find. Word of mouth is usually a good clue. If someone goes to a restaurant and it turns out to be absolutely amazing, they will tell everyone about it. It's the same with doctors.
Years ago I sent a screening letter to every psychiatrist in the phone book. Some of the questions related to who they would refer a family member to, who they would refer a non-responding patient to. From that an anonimous name came up that wasn't even listed in the phone book. Psychiatrists spoke very highly of one particular doctor. He was semi-retired doing more administrative work than clinical work, and thus not in the phone book. I got in touch with him and he was the most awesome doctor I ever had. Then, sigh, he retired. Damn.
Posted by sam K on February 1, 2009, at 17:43:17
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
you should meet my doc, hes great. So human.. he treats me really equally. He doesnt try to though, its just how he is. He lets all his patients call him as many times a week if you pay $10 a month extra. He's not expensive etiher. He talks to me for 2 hours sometimes. But I may be an exception. And when he talks to people he refers to me as a friend instead of a patient.
I understand you though, before my doc now other doctors didnt really care about me.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 18:16:07
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by sam K on February 1, 2009, at 17:43:17
Who is this Doc? Is he an alternative doctor or a conventional doctor? Where is he located?
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2009, at 19:49:27
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by bleauberry on February 1, 2009, at 9:27:05
BB number two are the ones I've had down here in South. Notheast much better for me anyway. Phillipa
Posted by garnet71 on February 1, 2009, at 20:18:28
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
Hi there Gman. I'm so glad you are checking in here and venting your anger. I'm glad you know we understand, and some of us out here in cyberspace can relate.
I forgot to mention - about psych wards...I am never going to a psychiatric hospital, or taking another person there again. I thought since the psychiatric hospital was connected with the medical university here in my city, that it would be the best place to go for the type of emergencies my sister had. I thought my sis would get the best care there. Not so.
Next time, but hopefully there will be no next time, I will go to the hospital in my region known for the best heart care. It is clean and the staff is very professional. I'm not saying there are hospitals that have 100% caring staff, but compared to the psych hospital..the psych hospital was dirty, more like a prison, and the pdocs we saw were so unempathetic - I thought the one's face was going to crack if she smiled. Her face could not even form a half smile...lol. When speaking to her and looking into her eyes, she seemed to have no empathy, and even seemed to enjoy letting my sister suffer. No exaggeration. I know doctors have to somewhat detach emotions from their patients, but this woman, I got the sense from her windows to the soul, along with her body language, was sadistic and cruel and loved having the authority over my sister's life.
When I took my sis there over and over, we would be positive despite the situation, relaxed and cooperative, and even joking at times to deal with the situation. The intake people and the security people were super...and one or two of the nurses..but the psych docs..horrible. Oh, and once you entered you were locked in and not permitted to go outside for fresh air, or in my sister's case a cig. Locked in the waiting room.
The also filmed everything. I don't remember them asking for permission; maybe they did, but I don't recall. I had to be a b*tch to even go in the room with my sister, who didn't want me to leave her side. They told me I wasn't allowed, but when I pushed by the nurse and caught the one more decent doctor in the hallway, he said sure, I could come sit by my sister while she was being 'interrogated'. How dare they say I can't be by her side while she loses her mind, but random students are allowed in while a group of people watch and question her under a camera. Why do these people think they are? Also, I am not comfortable thinking someone who knows me that decided to go to med school can sit there and watch my sister having her nervous breakdown, and hear about our childhood and the sexual abuse. Real nice exposing that for the world to see. I didn't mind the students being in the room. I talked to them about school and stuff. One seemed real nervous and uncomfortable. I wonder if these students knew what they were getting themselves into.
Interesting how they "were not permitted" to prescribe any medications to stop a total destructive nervous breakdown until I threatened to sue. Pdocs whole career is structured around prescribing pills, but when you need them for an emergency/acute situation, all they want to do is deny. :|
Nothing wrong with venting :) Keep us posted!
Posted by JadeKelly on February 1, 2009, at 21:34:14
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 1, 2009, at 1:17:58
Garnet and G-man,
My son is Bipolar-1, his manic states are not "happy". Garnet, your post reminded me of "one flew over the coocoo's nest, with Jack Nicholson. G-man, if you've seen it I'm sure you can relate. At any rate, no, I won't be taking my son to a psych ward ever again. He's gone 3 times, the 2nd hospital wasn't that bad, but it wasnt good either.
Now if he gets violent, I call family, and if we have to we hold him down, I promise we won't hurt him. I tell him I love him and don't pay attention to the "mean" things he says. Its not him. They last 24-48 hours.
Back to subject, I hear you G-man about Doctors. My son feels the exact same way. He'll always hate psychyatrists but he goes because he knows he needs his medications. After 3 therapists we found one he really hits it off with and while we're taking a break for now, he's happy he has someone to talk to if he needs to. I hope you find someone like that G-man.
Hope you are feeling better, you have many options left to get you feeling well again. Its sucks to be patient I know. Keep posting, I was deeply depressed and it really helped to talk it out with others. I didn't feel so alone.
~Jade
Posted by cmorhoun on February 2, 2009, at 12:30:20
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
G - I feel your pain and can relate. I am incredibly sensitive to meds myself. Most meds Ive taken have made things severely worse. A few suggestions:
Klonipon over time can add to depression. Try another benzo or try Neurontin (affects GABA also) or Lithium.
I wonder why you quit Lexapro in 2005, it seems like things have gotten worse since you did?
It sounds like youve been on the same meds for quite a while? If you feel this horrible on what youre taking, its obviously time to try something else and theres much more to try.
Stimulants like Adderall, Concerta, Vyvanse. I wouldn't be alive without them. I think they are pretty hard on the body over time and certainly hard on the adrenals but they are powerful and fast acting and may at least help until you find the right cocktail. They've kept me functional and alive for 3 years. There are many many people who have tried every other drug/class there is and finally found relief with stimulants. Youll hear about addiction, poop-out, tolerance which are all possibilities but only for some. Youll find many doctors are leery of them and rightly so.find someone else. Ive taken the same low dose for the entire time Ive been on them. Fake ADD problems if you need to. They give this crap to kids like its candy yet theyre cautious about someone whos life could be saved because they dont fit the proper profileamazing.
Amino Acid supplements. I cant stress these enough. They have been sort of my rock through years of searching for the right cocktail. They can be very activating and energizing. They can potentiate the effects of drugs and could certainly help with adrenal exhaustion or allergies. I think they are the reason that Ive done OK with a low and consistent dose of stimulants for so long. Hardly a cure for depression but can significantly lighten the load, especially for someone in a cloudy, dark and foggy depression.
Licorice A standard for the theoretical adrenal exhaustion. Do some research though, potentially potent stuff and should be taken with care.
St. John's Wort - Can also be very activating. Again, hardly a cure but may help lighten the load or potentiate the drugs you're on. I recommend finding a liquid form...more pure in my opinion. Must be careful of dose if taking with other drugs.
L-tryptophan converts to serotonin during the day and melatonin at night. One of the best sleep aides there is and completely natural. Can be very helpful for anxiety too. Some will even say it helps with depression over time. You must be careful taking with any drug that effects serotonin.
Diet can help immensely too. Raw green organic veggies can do wonders for someone with allergies or sensitivities. Basic protein, no sugarscommon sense stuff can be easily forgotten when feeling so horrible.
Have you considered ECT? Youll probably hear mostly horror stories from people here but for some, it's the magic bullet or for many or it can offer temporary relief while you try other meds. Do some research. Unilateral vs bilateral, etc.
T3 supplementation regardless of thyroid levels. Use caution but again, often the magic bullet for someone who wouldnt even fit the profile for thyroid issues.
Just hang in there. I know how hard it is to even imagine something can help when you don't even know how you'll make it through the day but as mentioned already, there are so many other meds/combos to try. A doc once told me that prescribing meds is as much an art as it is a science. Everyone is different and we ultimately dont know why these drugs work the way they do. Diagnosis and classification of drugs ultimately means very little. You ultimately just have to find what fits your body chemistry.
Regarding adrenal tests and such. I spent lots of time and money on all sorts of tests relating to allergies, cortisal, adrenalson and on and on and ultimately, they generally tell you very little even if they seem to indicate something specific. Much of the stuff is theoretical in the first place. Occasionally youll find something clear cut like low thyroid but generally its a lot of theory that all basically means the same thing in the end..eat healthy and exercise. I did all this stuff when I was at my worst and it was something to hope for and to keep me going but in retrospect, for me, it was a lot of wasted hope and money. Im not saying you shouldnt do it, Im just saying, try to keep perspective as you do. You may spend a lot of time and money to get answers that are theoretical at best and that all have the same solution..eat healthy and exercise.
Research research research.Crazymeds, Revolution Health, PubMed, The alternative board, other forums. Im very fortunate in that I have a fantastic psych who respects that I am very educated on meds. I think the more intelligent you sound to any doc, the more they will respect your input. Its very easy to get bitter at docs but if we dont have anything intelligent to offer regarding an approach, what should we expect from someone who is ultimately clueless unless theyve been through this themselves.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 2, 2009, at 21:15:15
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by cmorhoun on February 2, 2009, at 12:30:20
> G - I feel your pain and can relate. I am incredibly sensitive to meds myself. Most meds Ive taken have made things severely worse. A few suggestions:
>
> Klonipon over time can add to depression. Try another benzo or try Neurontin (affects GABA also) or Lithium.I have Neurontin, my Psychiatrist just gave it to me... but when I take it I become more manic and I develop very destructive thoughts & mood changes.
>
> I wonder why you quit Lexapro in 2005, it seems like things have gotten worse since you did?
>I quit Lexapro because I really felt like it put my health in grave danger. SSRIs severely aggravate insomnia, they also make you act extremely recklessly and impair your judgement. I used to drink a sh*tload of vodka when on Lexapro and I was a heavy cigarette smoker - I quit both these nasty habits after getting off Lexapro.
I could not foresee what awaited me after withdrawal of Lexapro... Even though quitting it turned out unfavorably, I don't think I would've lasted much longer on it anyway.
> It sounds like youve been on the same meds for quite a while? If you feel this horrible on what youre taking, its obviously time to try something else and theres much more to try.
>
> Stimulants like Adderall, Concerta, Vyvanse. I wouldn't be alive without them. I think they are pretty hard on the body over time and certainly hard on the adrenals but they are powerful and fast acting and may at least help until you find the right cocktail. They've kept me functional and alive for 3 years. There are many many people who have tried every other drug/class there is and finally found relief with stimulants. Youll hear about addiction, poop-out, tolerance which are all possibilities but only for some. Youll find many doctors are leery of them and rightly so.find someone else. Ive taken the same low dose for the entire time Ive been on them. Fake ADD problems if you need to. They give this crap to kids like its candy yet theyre cautious about someone whos life could be saved because they dont fit the proper profileamazing.
About stimulants: I cannot even drink a cup of coffee without feeling like I'm getting a heart attack. I am ridiculously sensitive to all drugs... this has also been the bane of my existence... since I really can't take anything to relieve my symptoms.>
> Amino Acid supplements. I cant stress these enough. They have been sort of my rock through years of searching for the right cocktail. They can be very activating and energizing. They can potentiate the effects of drugs and could certainly help with adrenal exhaustion or allergies. I think they are the reason that Ive done OK with a low and consistent dose of stimulants for so long. Hardly a cure for depression but can significantly lighten the load, especially for someone in a cloudy, dark and foggy depression.
>
>
> L-tryptophan converts to serotonin during the day and melatonin at night. One of the best sleep aides there is and completely natural. Can be very helpful for anxiety too. Some will even say it helps with depression over time. You must be careful taking with any drug that effects serotonin.Tryptophan makes me feel HORRIBLE. I think this is a long-term side effect of SSRI use/withdrawal, since SSRIs primarily affect serotonin. SSRIs totally mess up the serotonin receptors, and tryptophan is bad for lots of people who have been on SSRIs.
>
> Diet can help immensely too. Raw green organic veggies can do wonders for someone with allergies or sensitivities. Basic protein, no sugarscommon sense stuff can be easily forgotten when feeling so horrible.Diet: 2 years ago, I have just realized that I am heavily allergic to Wheat and dairy. I have totally cut those 2 out of my diet, and removing wheat has really helped! Apparently I've been allergic to wheat since I was born, and I only realized this when I was 23. So for 23 years I've been heavily consuming a food that I'm severely allergic to....
Posted by cmorhoun on February 3, 2009, at 11:45:07
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on February 2, 2009, at 21:15:15
Neurontin - remember that it can take some time to adjust to meds. I understand how hard this is when one is severely sensitive and also in extreme mental pain.
Lexapro - keep in mind that stress/depression can be just as detrimental to your health, if not more so, than anything an SSRI or other can do to you. It sounds like you may have at least been feeling better when on an AD versus the meds you take now. The drinking and smoking is an easy fix...don't do it. There are plenty of other types of ADs to try other than SSRIs. The TCAs are generally great for sleep. Remeron is famous for sleepy, Strattera, even Wellbutrin, can make people tired (both did for me), Lithium, etc. There are many many options to try.
Stimulants - I know the concept of taking a stimulant seems wrong when sleep or anxiety is an issue but I think you would be pleasantly surprised. Ive always been a terrible sleeper and I sleep better when taking a stimulant than when taking any other type of med. Again, I am also ridiculously sensetive to meds and I've handled stimulants very well by just taking small doses. Don't be afraid to at least try them.
I would again, encourage you to find a good amino acid supplement right away. From there, research some alternate meds to try.
I think you and I are very similar in ways. I too went through the stress of being afraid of meds because of health issues. Your afraid of meds, your sensitive to meds, they don't seem to help and even if they did, they may do long term damage....I know that self serving prophecy type hell. I finally accepted that nothing compares to the damage that depression does to ones physical and mental mind (and body). The body has an amazing capacity to heal itself over time. Effects from drugs can be healed but not when one is constantly depressed. Try to stop compounding your stress and aggravation by worrying about long term effects of drugs right now and focus on getting some relief.
Posted by G-man885858 on February 3, 2009, at 17:12:20
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!!, posted by cmorhoun on February 3, 2009, at 11:45:07
I am not against meds. I do not have Drugophobia, I am just very careful and weary of them. Right now, I take Seroquel 300mg, Klonopin 1mg, ambien 10mg, and lopressor 10mg all at the same time before bed.
What specific type of amino acids do you take?
My doc gave me a "free form amino acid powder" to try, but when I tried it it was REALLY stimulating and that scared me out of trying it again. But I think I will try it again sometime soon, because the first time I tried it there were many other concurrent problems going on that may have aggravated the side effects.Sincerely,
G-man
Posted by garnet71 on February 3, 2009, at 21:38:36
In reply to Suicidal, please help!!, posted by G-man885858 on January 31, 2009, at 0:22:56
Hi Gman, just me again.
I read where you told us you had a wheat allergy (Celiac disease?). I wonder if the intestinal dysfunction that results from Celiac prevents your body from absorbing and processing essential nutrients when you are growing and your brain is developing?
I forgot to mention - when you are in despair - be on the lookout for angels. I don't mean angels in a religious sense. For that matter, I don't think one religion is any better than all the others...Angels are not special people; they are random people that you briefly connect with; just instruments temporarily used for a purpose to deliver a message to another.
When I have been at my all time low, random people on occasion - in a setting totally unrelated and out of character in comparison to something going on in my life - will bring up a subject that again, has nothing to do with the environment or situation at hand - and somehow say something to me that is as if they know exactly what is going on in my head! I have been in awe at what total strangers have said to me - as if they were talking directly to my soul without them even realizing it.
It is both a bizzare and amazing thing at the same time. It brings about undescribable peace at our worst times.
The problem is, if you don't look for them you will totally miss the opportunity. So next time you are feeling that low, think about what the clerk in the convenience store just said...the coworker you normally never talk to...the little 5 year old neighbor that blurts out something innocent.
This has helped me get through the most awful times. I hope you will be aware if this ever happens to you. Glad to see you are talkative and doing better.
Hugs,
Garnet
Posted by G-man885858 on February 3, 2009, at 22:33:55
In reply to Re: Suicidal, please help!! » G-man885858, posted by garnet71 on February 3, 2009, at 21:38:36
God bless you Garnet, I think YOU are an angel!
You are because you take the time out of your busy schedule to talk to me and comfort me. That takes a lot of strength and effort!My parents have raised me in a harshly atheist household. They did it to take away all my hope and belief that life can be a lot better than the misery that they gave me. They are manipulative, sadistic bullies. They were willing to stoop to ANY LOW to increase their suffocating grip on my life and happiness. They even look happy when I am at my lowest, most depressive points. They only had children because they needed scapegoats to blame for their own miserable, failed marriage.
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