![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HyperFocus on January 12, 2009, at 21:50:36
I read a whole bunch of scary suff about mercury poisoning from dental amalgam fillings, including the development of depression, but the official ADA position is that these amalgams are perfectly 'safe.' Somebody has to be right so who is it? I have to get fillings this week so I'm going to tell the doctor I want composite or porcelain fillings, but it's possible he may shoot me down with the official ADA position so I may have to find a mercury-free dentist, and it would be considerably more expensive and time-consuming and not last as long as the silver amalgams. So is it worth it to get non-amalgam fillings?
Posted by Garnet71 on January 12, 2009, at 22:06:14
In reply to What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by HyperFocus on January 12, 2009, at 21:50:36
The white or clear fillings don't cost much more than the silver ones, from my experience.
I still have 2 of the old silver kind. Yes, there are whole books written on this subject, and tons of people saying it causes poisoning..
But I can't understand how the mercury can get in your system--I mean, if the fillings are still there, then the substance can't be breaking off into your system, right? I read that the vapor fumes are emitted...but if that was the case, the fillngs would eventually disappear, wouldn't they?
Someone who knows more will answer you, I'm sure. But do you see what I'm saying? If the subsstance was getting into your system, the fillings would eventually disappear altogether, no?
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 12, 2009, at 22:26:00
In reply to What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by HyperFocus on January 12, 2009, at 21:50:36
They should be called mercury amalgams, being 50% by weight mercury, with mercury being the solvent/liquid phase. Silver is seldom more than about 35% of the filling material.
If there is any left-over amalgam following a restoration, the dentist must, by law, treat the surplus material as toxic waste. The waste-water drains from those little sinks you rinse your mouth into must have mercury traps installed. If an amalgam is removed, it must be treated as toxic waste. Yet, we are to believe that while the substance is in our mouths, it's inert and non-toxic?
I did some serious research on the subject a couple of years back, and posted it in three different messages on Usenet: a) toxicology of mercury/amalgams; b) mercury content/exposure from amalgams; c) selenium as protection from mercury exposure.
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.psychology.psychotherapy/msg/92271ed412bb241b?hl=en
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.psychology.psychotherapy/msg/86d6230772883409?hl=en
http://groups.google.ca/group/sci.psychology.psychotherapy/msg/03d9f554c44ec76d?hl=enLar
Posted by yxibow on January 12, 2009, at 23:09:49
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » HyperFocus, posted by Larry Hoover on January 12, 2009, at 22:26:00
Hrm.... I don't want to say too much to irritate people who believe otherwise and its their personal opinion, but yes, they have been time tested by the ADA and that isn't just lip service.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about mercury amalgams.
I would say this -- the jury is still out at the present on them, although almost all studies have shown otherwise, some doctors have been convinced otherwise.
The thing that I think is a waste of money and a travesty and a potential risk of actually increasing mercury in your system and teeth deterioration is the rather dangerous practice of having all your fillings removed and replaced with something else.
Mercury amalgams strengthen teeth in the back of the mouth more than the front and thus are used for this purpose because it really does save teeth decay, which is something I don't think anyone wants to have, regardless of the trivial amount of mercury that may or may not be present, dentures and bridges are not a fun option.
For the front teeth, plastic/synthetic fillings can be used more often, at least from what I recall, I may have some of this mixed up, but I think that is the general gist.
I can't imagine a dentist being adamantly mercury strong or not, other than that they believe in the studies of the ADA and their dentist license, which after all they did go to dentistry school for.
Dentists are trained in surgery, not the kind that is performed in a hospital but they have to take some form of true surgical training, since DDs does mean doctor of dentist surgery.
Typically though, they refer people to a surgeon for things like wisdom tooth extraction as that is a major dentist surgery and is best done by a specialist.
I have asked for plastic ones before, and yes, I have gotten the indication that an amalgam would be better, I do get cavities.
I mean if I really insisted, I don't know if my dentist would not do it but I do trust his better judgment as I have seen him for years.
Anyhow just my thoughts
-- Jay
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2009, at 0:51:49
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Larry Hoover, posted by yxibow on January 12, 2009, at 23:09:49
Okay years ago I heard similar things about the mercury at the time had great dental coverage 75% for white crowns so replaced most fillings with the crowns what makes up the white crowns? No one was concerned at the time and I felt well then. Reason I don't now and did then also when a kid no novacaine as parents couldn't afford it the dentist would give me a ball of mercury to play with shouldn't something of happened playing with mercury? Guess should take selenium used to when into shaklee. Love Jan
Posted by yxibow on January 13, 2009, at 1:48:05
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2009, at 0:51:49
> Okay years ago I heard similar things about the mercury at the time had great dental coverage 75% for white crowns so replaced most fillings with the crowns what makes up the white crowns? No one was concerned at the time and I felt well then. Reason I don't now and did then also when a kid no novacaine as parents couldn't afford it the dentist would give me a ball of mercury to play with shouldn't something of happened playing with mercury? Guess should take selenium used to when into shaklee. Love Jan
Metal, ceramic -- its an extensive processhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_crown
White crowns sound like ceramic. I can't believe they would have covered the "unnecessary" removal of mercury fillings just because -- crowns are done when fillings are not enough.
Yikes... playing with a ball of mercury... well in those days they didn't know enough about potential problems of mercury absorption and vapors, it was rather common to find mercury balls in creeks where mining was done.
When I was in elementary school we had a chemistry guy come in and somehow mercury (we're talking a very tiny ball) got loose and the grade room was closed for a day while the men in space suits sucked out the air in the room. Overkill, but definitely different than what used to be very common in the old days.
Shaklee ?
Selenium is actually a toxic semi-metal. Its use, just like chromium in humans is very small (you get all the chromium you really need from stainless steel flatware wearout). It supposedly helps men restore some hair (along with zinc). I have taken it before for that purpose, cant say that it did anything.
Hydrogen selenide is a very toxic gas and if you can smell its garlic smell you'd better run.
-- Jay
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 9:48:24
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Larry Hoover, posted by yxibow on January 12, 2009, at 23:09:49
Amalgam dental restorations have not been proven safe, certainly not by the ADA, or any other dental organization. They have remained in use not because they have been approved by e.g. the FDA, but because their use precedes scientific inquiry into their safety. They have been grand-fathered in.
I don't want to sound like Bill Clinton, but we have to consider the meaning of the word safe. In the old way of thinking, exposure was considered safe until proven toxic (think tobacco). Modern scientific thought seeks to apply the precautionary principle, where the plausibility of risk is sufficient to prevent exposure to a risk, with the burden falling on the proponent of the risk-taking. Under current thinking, there is no way on Earth that mercury would be permitted as a permanent implant in the mouth.
About a decade ago, I was a contract researcher for the World Wildlife Fund, charged with determining human exposure and risk assessment to a number of chemicals, including bisphenol-A, which was recently restricted in Canada, due to its hormone disruptive potential. Anyway, there are a number of dental restoratives that contain bisphenol-A within a group sometimes called "white fillings", and as a sealant, so I spent some weeks in a university library dedicated to dental literature, reading and copying many hundreds of articles. My curiosity, and my risk analysis, had me simultaneously studying mercury amalgam. There has never been a time when the dental community was satisfied that there was no risk from mercury exposure arising from amalgams. I believe that legal liability concerns drive the public declarations of amalgam safety, not scientific evidence thereof.
One of the primary failings of virtually all studies of amalgam risk and reports of adverse effects arising therefrom is that they standardize on mercury exposure. If you were looking at Prozac safety, and standardized on dose, you could dismiss those people with rarer side effects just because most people don't react that way at that dose. But that's what's happening to people who are sensitive to mercury exposure. And unlike Prozac, which you can simply stop taking, you can't stop the release of mercury from amalgams in your mouth.
Mercury is a cumulative toxin. There is no safe exposure.....not as I define safe, anyway. There is a cumulative threshold beyond which symptoms become apparent. But each of us has our own threshold, determined by both genetic and environmental variables. When examined from the perspective of identified risk factors, amalgam illness does rise above the dismissive level of "not statistically different from matched controls". The devil has been in determining what those factors might be.
I just did a quick sampling of the literature this morning to show that there are known factors influencing mercury sensitivity (and surely others not yet identified).
Norway has banned mercury amalgam altogether. Health Canada has strongly recommended against amalgam installations in pregnant women, or in the deciduous teeth of children. At last count, four U.S. states require informed consent disclosure of the risks of mercury exposure via amalgam restorations. The FDA was recently sued to force it to declare a risk of that exposure. I think the pendulum is swinging.
The following four abstracts demonstrate statistically significant consequences of amalgam mercury exposure, in the context of specific risk factors. These include serotonin transporter gene polymorphism, Apo-lipoprotein gene polymorphism (the same gene associated with Alzheimer's), selenium status/metabolism, and thyroid antibodies. The latter may be entirely due to a selenium-dependent process, as the antibodies to TPO are negatively correlated with selenium status (as indicated by glutathione peroxidase levels).
It just makes sense to avoid mercury exposure, in any way that is practical.
Lar
J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2008;71(19):1318-26.
The association between serotonin transporter gene promoter polymorphism (5-HTTLPR), self-reported symptoms, and dental mercury exposure.Heyer NJ, Echeverria D, Farin FM, Woods JS.
Battelle Centers for Public Health Research and Evaluation, Seattle, Washington 98109-3598, USA. heyern@battelle.orgThe associations between a polymorphism of the serotonin transporter gene (5-HTTLPR), dental mercury exposure, and self-reported symptoms were evaluated among 157 male dentists and 84 female dental assistants. Self-reported symptoms and detailed work histories were obtained by computerized questionnaire. Spot urine samples were collected and analyzed for mercury concentrations to evaluate recent exposures, whereas a chronic mercury exposure index was created from the work histories. 5-HTTLPR polymorphism status was determined using a polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based assay. Scores for current, recent, and chronic self-reported symptom groups were evaluated with respect to recent and chronic mercury exposure and 5-HTTLPR polymorphism status. Multiple regression analysis controlled for age, socioeconomic status, tobacco and alcohol use, self-reported health problems, and medications. Analyses were restricted to Caucasian subjects due to the highly skewed distribution of the 5-HTTLPR polymorphism. Separate evaluations were conducted for dentists and dental assistants. In contrast to previous reports, no consistent associations were found between either urinary mercury concentration or the chronic index of mercury exposure and any category of symptoms. However, both significant and consistent associations were observed between increased symptoms and the 5-HTTLPR polymorphism involving two copies of the short or "s" allele (full mutation), but not with the polymorphism involving only one copy (heterozygous), demonstrating a gene-dose relationship for symptom reporting. These findings suggest that within this restricted population increased symptoms of depression, anxiety, and memory are associated with the 5-HTTLPR polymorphism among both males and females.
Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2006 Aug;27(4):415-23.
Mercury toxicity presenting as chronic fatigue, memory impairment and depression: diagnosis, treatment, susceptibility, and outcomes in a New Zealand general practice setting (1994-2006).Wojcik DP, Godfrey ME, Christie D, Haley BE.
Northland Environmental Health Clinic, 2 Dip Rd, Kamo, Whangarei, Northland, New Zealand. wojcik@wave.co.nzIn a group of 465 patients diagnosed as having chronic mercury toxicity (CMT), 32.3% had severe fatigue, 88.8% had memory loss, and 27.5% had depression. A significant correlation was found between CMT and the Apo-lipoprotein E4 genotype (p=0.001). An investigation into an additional 864 consecutively seen general practice patients, resulted in 30.3% having evidence consistent with CMT, and once again a significant correlation was found with the APO-E4 genotype (p=0.001). Removal of amalgam mercury fillings when combined with appropriate treatment resulted in a significant symptom reduction (p<0.001) to levels reported by healthy subjects.
Environ Res. 2001 Dec;87(3):141-6.
Dental amalgam and selenium in blood.Høl PJ, Vamnes JS, Gjerdet NR, Eide R, Isrenn R.
Department of Odontology-Dental Biomaterials, University of Bergen, Aarstadveien 17, Bergen, N-5009, Norway.It has been suggested that selenium (Se) exhibits protective effects against mercury (Hg) toxicity in humans due to formation of a Hg-Se complex bound to selenoprotein P in blood. The aim of the present study was to investigate Se concentrations in persons who had been examined with respect to general health problems associated with dental amalgam fillings. The Se concentrations were determined in whole-blood samples of 80 individuals by hydride generation atomic absorption spectrometry. The subjects comprised two main groups: 21 healthy controls with amalgam fillings and 20 patients who claimed symptoms from existing amalgam fillings. The median concentration of Se in blood (119.2 microg/L) was statistically significantly lower in subjects who claimed symptoms of mercury amalgam illness than in healthy subjects with amalgam (130.3 microg/L). The difference was more evident in individuals with more than 35 amalgam surfaces (P=0.003). Additional control groups without amalgam fillings comprised 19 healthy controls without amalgam experience and 20 subjects who have had amalgam fillings removed due to suspected symptoms associated with amalgam. The Se concentrations in these groups were not different from those with amalgam. It is indicated that persons with ill health self-related to dental amalgam might have a Se metabolism different from that of healthy people.
Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2006 Dec;27 Suppl 1:25-30.
Erratum in:
Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2007 Oct;28(5):iii.
Removal of dental amalgam decreases anti-TPO and anti-Tg autoantibodies in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis.Sterzl I, Prochazkova J, Hrda P, Matucha P, Bartova J, Stejskal V.
Institute of Immunology and Microbiology, 1st Medical Faculty, Charles University, General Faculty Hospital, Prague, Czech Republic. ister@lf1.cuni.czOBJECTIVES: The impact of dental amalgam removal on the levels of anti-thyroid peroxidase (anti-TPO) and anti-thyroglobulin (anti-Tg) antibodies was studied in patients with autoimmune thyroiditis (AT) with and without mercury allergy. METHODS: Thirty-nine patients with AT were tested by an optimized lymphocyte proliferation test MELISA for allergy (hypersensitivity) to inorganic mercury. Patients were divided into two groups: Group I (n = 12) with no hypersensitivity to mercury and Group II (n = 27) with hypersensitivity to mercury. Amalgam fillings were removed from the oral cavities of 15 patients with hypersensitivity to mercury (Group IIA) and left in place in the remaining 12 patients (Group IIB). The laboratory markers of AT, anti-TPO and anti-Tg autoantibodies, were determined in all groups at the beginning of the study and six months later. RESULTS: Compared to levels at the beginning of the study, only patients with mercury hypersensitivity who underwent amalgam replacement (Group IIA) showed a significant decrease in the levels of both anti-Tg (p=0.001) and anti-TPO (p=0.0007) autoantibodies. The levels of autoantibodies in patients with or without mercury hypersensitivity (Group I and Group IIB) who did not replace amalgam did not change. CONCLUSION: Removal of mercury-containing dental amalgam in patients with mercury hypersensitivity may contribute to successful treatment of autoimmune thyroiditis.
Posted by Garnet71 on January 13, 2009, at 11:34:10
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » yxibow, posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 9:48:24
Lar, anyone..could someone answer?
If you've had mercury fillings in for say, 15 years, if the mercury 'got into your system' wouldn't it all eventually disappear from the filling? If it is contaminating you, then either the bits or fumes will eventually evaporate or disappear into your body?
Posted by Abby Cunningham on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:41
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » HyperFocus, posted by Larry Hoover on January 12, 2009, at 22:26:00
Larry, thanks for the scientific information and studies you have done. I have talked with my dentist as I have a lot of mercury in my mouth from years ago......I will never have another amalgam filling and he knows it. I want them all removed but I understand there is a certain way to remove them without causing further damage - you know on YouTube you can watch the video when someone chews you can see the mercury vapors that are released! this is scary stuff.
I can't afford to go to a dentist to have removal done the correct way. It only proves they are dangerous as I have seen different countries banning the amalgam now but not the good old USA! Grrrr........no wonder France and Italy are the two best countries for healthcare as rated by the World Health Organization and we at the USA are #37 or something......
Sorry for the rant.
Posted by bleauberry on January 13, 2009, at 16:37:40
In reply to What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by HyperFocus on January 12, 2009, at 21:50:36
Ok, so the FDA is the all-knowing never-wrong god of drugs, right? Well, most of us know how incorrect that is. I just want to point out the same scenario exists with the ADA. It is merely an organization of like-minded beauracrats, made of humans, of which the species is flawed and imperfect. The greatest of men and the greatest of organizations have all made disasterous mistakes at one time or another.
To put it into perspective, you should know that while 2/3 of dentists follow ADA guidelines, 1/3 do not.
If it could be scientifically proven how dangerous amalgams are, do you really think the ADA is going to admit that kind of massive mistake and have it and all its dentists sued by millions of people? Come on.
The most obvious proof of amalgam danger is logic. Consider the following.
Amalgam removed from your teeth does not go into the trash. It has to be handled as hazardous waste, and it goes to a hazardous waste dump. BUT, it was ok to have it in your mouth just inches from your brain?
The history of amalgams is fascinating. Did you know they were never FDA approved? They were started by a group of dentists, later adopted by ADA, for a couple simple reasons. First, it was cheap. Second, it was easy to work with. They assumed that since the mercury was solidified it would pose no problem. They never considered that it might crack, break, corrode, or...emit mercury vapor.
There is a website that shows mercury vapor rising from an amalgam in an extracted tooth. It is rather stunning. It looks like a wisp trail rising 24/7, but turns into a smoke stack when rubbed with a pencil eraser simulating chewing.
Some people get mysterious chronic illnesses years later. Some as early as a few months later. Some never get ill. As with everything, it comes down to our genes. Some people have very good detox genes, some don't. Some people accumulate toxins at an abnormal rate due to weak glutathione pathways, among other things.
The chronis mysterious illnesses of amalgam illness are familiar names. Depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, autism, dementia, parkinson's, MS, chronic fatigue, FM, digestive disorders of all kinds, organ weaknesses of all kinds, and cancers. Why? Where ever the mercury finds its home is where the damage is done. Its favorite homes are in the nervous system, liver, kidneys, and intestines.
Mercury halflife is 30 years. Once the vapor has been absorbed into your cheeks and stomach, it circulates for a couple days before it tightly binds to its permanent home inside you. The only thing that can loosen it is a double sulfur molecule.
The best book on the topic is called Amalgam Illness, by PHd Andrew Cutler. Unlike most authors, he himself was chronically seriously ill. He was healed by removing amalgams and then chelating with low dose frequent dose DMSA and ALA. DMSA is a strong sulfur prescription med that pulls mercury and lead out of hiding in the peripheral body, while ALA is one of only two substances on the planet that can enter the brain barrier and remove mercury. The other is cilantro. Dr. Cutler goes into great detail on the history of amalgams, how the mercury gets out of the amalgams and into you, where it goes, and what it does. Very detailed, very scientific, packed full of references, backing, and proof, as well as his own experience and research. Some of the book is medical lingo, hard for someone who hasn't been to medical school to understand. Much of it though is understandable to an average person.
Read the book and your doubts will be gone. You will be hard-pressed to find any way to refute the facts.
Yes, amalgams are extremely harzadous. That's why they go to the hazardous waste dump after they are pulled out of your teeth. Until then, the mercury vapor soaks into you in a low level chronic poisoning situation 24/7.
Mercury is the second most toxic substance to the nervous system on the planet. But it is perfectly fine to put it in your mouth. Ok. Sure.
Read the book and get the amalgams out.
Posted by bleauberry on January 13, 2009, at 16:50:38
In reply to What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by HyperFocus on January 12, 2009, at 21:50:36
So, my Dad is an Orthopaedic surgeon. When I informed him I tested above normal for mercury and lead, and that the mercury was being blamed on my amalgams, he of course being a scientific medical kind of guy totally laughed at the idea. But open minded as he is, he thought about it, and then went next door to talk to a friend of his who is a lifelong dentist.
The dentist admitted that there is a growing body of evidence of amalgam danger, but that scientific proof was lacking. He said it is a new area of concern. He said that while he personally doubts amalgams are dangerous, he does not use them anymore just to be safe.
From someone who is pro-amalgams, even he said we just don't know, and it is safer to use other substances. Kind of a politically correct answer.
It is hard to ignore the thousands of people who find their mysterious chronic neuropscyhiatric diseases gradually vanish after having amalgams removed, and for many of them, going through chelation therapy to get out the embedded mercury deposits in the body.
There are now thousands of dentists who refuse to use amalgams. And hundreds who specialize in removing it safely. Someone knows more than we do.
Like I said, read Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler. The book is cheap enough, but I believe excerpts of it are available on the web.
Posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 16:57:52
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » HyperFocus, posted by Larry Hoover on January 12, 2009, at 22:26:00
>So is it worth it to get non-amalgam fillings?
Do yourself a favour and avoid them.
I just had mine out. Many hours in the chair.
I wouldn't let my kids have them, that's for sure.
Posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 17:03:01
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on January 13, 2009, at 1:48:05
>playing with a ball of mercury
Yeah, we used to do that.
Pour it into our hands and rub it into the sixpences with our bare fingers to make them silver and shiney.
We'd ask each other 'What would happen if you eat this?'There's no doubt about it.
It is interesting stuff to handle.
My father had 100ml of it on his dresser.
Posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 17:05:11
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 16:57:52
>So is it worth it to get non-amalgam fillings?
Do yourself a favour and avoid them.
I just had mine out. Many hours in the chair.
I wouldn't let my kids have them, that's for sure.
****I mean, of course, avoid mercury.*****
Posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 17:28:25
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 17:05:11
Sorry for the 4th post....I seem to do it all the time.
But I was just thinking about how we used to push our fingers deep into the mercury, because it was such an unusual feeling.
This was a fun game when we were kids.I have one of those hair testing kits.
My anticipatory anhedonia, my despair and contempt, and my laziness (not to speak of lack of hair in the right place) makes it difficult for me to actually do it.
But maybe I should make the effort and push through the dreadful fog I am in and get it done.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 18:55:19
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Larry Hoover, posted by Garnet71 on January 13, 2009, at 11:34:10
> If you've had mercury fillings in for say, 15 years, if the mercury 'got into your system' wouldn't it all eventually disappear from the filling?
No. The rate of loss from the filling might slow a bit over time, but the chemistry of the alloy in the amalgam would guarantee that some mercury would always remain.
> If it is contaminating you, then either the bits or fumes will eventually evaporate or disappear into your body?
The mercury definitely migrates into other tissues, if that's the nature of your question. The most dangerous form of transfer is via mercury vapour. Particles of amalgam and/or liquid mercury from the amalgam are rather poorly absorbed (estimates less than 1%). Vapour is at least 80% absorbed.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:04:17
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Larry Hoover, posted by Abby Cunningham on January 13, 2009, at 11:58:41
> Larry, thanks for the scientific information and studies you have done.
You're welcome. Always happy to do a data dump. ;-)
> I have talked with my dentist as I have a lot of mercury in my mouth from years ago......I will never have another amalgam filling and he knows it. I want them all removed but I understand there is a certain way to remove them without causing further damage
Yes, there are specific protocols, including the use of a dental dam.....a rubber contraption that sits in the mouth to capture debris during removal. And there should be special ventilation, as friction from the drill substantially enhances vapour release. Some would argue that a prophylactic dose of DMSA is in order, since it's hard to perfectly protect against a minor burst of exposure during removal. I haven't looked up the protocol lately, but it should be easy to find a dentist who understands the risks involved.
> - you know on YouTube you can watch the video when someone chews you can see the mercury vapors that are released! this is scary stuff.
<Spock eyebrow> Do you have the link?
> I can't afford to go to a dentist to have removal done the correct way. It only proves they are dangerous as I have seen different countries banning the amalgam now but not the good old USA!
European countries are definitely more likely to apply the precautionary principle. Norway, Sweden, Denmark have bans....Germany has restrictions....probably others. But the EU just published a "review" of the literature that dismisses all concerns about amalgam. Politics.
> Grrrr........no wonder France and Italy are the two best countries for healthcare as rated by the World Health Organization and we at the USA are #37 or something......
>
> Sorry for the rant.Rants permitted. Well, I am in Canada. How do we fare?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:17:24
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by bleauberry on January 13, 2009, at 16:37:40
> The history of amalgams is fascinating.
My favourite anecdote is the source of the derogatory term "quack". It was first applied to dental surgeons who began using mercury based dental restoratives, about 175 years ago. They were a European innovation, and quack arose from the German word for mercury, quacksilber.
> The best book on the topic is called Amalgam Illness, by PHd Andrew Cutler. Unlike most authors, he himself was chronically seriously ill. He was healed by removing amalgams and then chelating with low dose frequent dose DMSA and ALA. DMSA is a strong sulfur prescription med that pulls mercury and lead out of hiding in the peripheral body, while ALA is one of only two substances on the planet that can enter the brain barrier and remove mercury. The other is cilantro. Dr. Cutler goes into great detail on the history of amalgams, how the mercury gets out of the amalgams and into you, where it goes, and what it does. Very detailed, very scientific, packed full of references, backing, and proof, as well as his own experience and research. Some of the book is medical lingo, hard for someone who hasn't been to medical school to understand. Much of it though is understandable to an average person.
I just ordered the book. Where on Earth would you get DMSA?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:22:57
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Sigismund on January 13, 2009, at 17:28:25
> But I was just thinking about how we used to push our fingers deep into the mercury, because it was such an unusual feeling.
I was always so surprised at how heavy the mercury was. 20% denser than lead, 13.5 times the density of water. I think that's what made it feel so funny with immersion....the mass displaced was many times the mass of the fingers. I suppose if you tried to swim in it, you'd barely sink into the surface at all.
Lar
Posted by Phillipa on January 13, 2009, at 19:37:09
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Sigismund, posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:22:57
I got ceramic crowns many many years ago and was fine afterwards and since autoimmune runs in the family I don't think my hasi's came from that. Think it was genes. Love Phillipa
Posted by Garnet71 on January 14, 2009, at 11:56:43
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Garnet71, posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 18:55:19
Hi Larry,
I posted areply to your message but it dissappeared...Thank you for answering my question; I want to rewrite my message to you, but don't have it in me right now. Maybe later. Thanks again :)
Posted by Abby Cunningham on January 14, 2009, at 14:23:42
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » Abby Cunningham, posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:04:17
Here is the YouTube link, totally worth watching but scaring me to death: from International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VCen1vCMY
> > Larry, thanks for the scientific information and studies you have done.
>
> You're welcome. Always happy to do a data dump. ;-)
>
> > I have talked with my dentist as I have a lot of mercury in my mouth from years ago......I will never have another amalgam filling and he knows it. I want them all removed but I understand there is a certain way to remove them without causing further damage
>
> Yes, there are specific protocols, including the use of a dental dam.....a rubber contraption that sits in the mouth to capture debris during removal. And there should be special ventilation, as friction from the drill substantially enhances vapour release. Some would argue that a prophylactic dose of DMSA is in order, since it's hard to perfectly protect against a minor burst of exposure during removal. I haven't looked up the protocol lately, but it should be easy to find a dentist who understands the risks involved.
>
> > - you know on YouTube you can watch the video when someone chews you can see the mercury vapors that are released! this is scary stuff.
>
> <Spock eyebrow> Do you have the link?
>
> > I can't afford to go to a dentist to have removal done the correct way. It only proves they are dangerous as I have seen different countries banning the amalgam now but not the good old USA!
>
> European countries are definitely more likely to apply the precautionary principle. Norway, Sweden, Denmark have bans....Germany has restrictions....probably others. But the EU just published a "review" of the literature that dismisses all concerns about amalgam. Politics.
>
> > Grrrr........no wonder France and Italy are the two best countries for healthcare as rated by the World Health Organization and we at the USA are #37 or something......
> >
> > Sorry for the rant.
>
> Rants permitted. Well, I am in Canada. How do we fare?
>
> Lar
Posted by Abby Cunningham on January 14, 2009, at 14:25:43
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Abby Cunningham on January 14, 2009, at 14:23:42
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 15, 2009, at 9:06:06
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams?, posted by Abby Cunningham on January 14, 2009, at 14:23:42
> Here is the YouTube link, totally worth watching but scaring me to death: from International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2VCen1vCMYThanks, Abby.
I have to admit, when I first viewed the video, I was skeptical. I went to the website of the folks that made it, and determined that it appears to be completely genuine. Their explanation is scientifically sound, but I'm still having trouble taking it in.
Here's the document that explains the science, and a whole lot more:
http://www.iaomt.org/articles/files/files193/The%20Case%20Against%20Amalgam.pdfThe video is of a tooth with amalgam filling, illuminated by a mercury vapour lamp. Mercury has specific wavelengths that it both emits and absorbs. Because mercury is the emitter, then the "smoke" that absorbs the light must also be composed of mercury. I can't think of any other interpretation.
One thing that does enter into consideration is that specific tooth and filling may have been specially selected for the demonstration. Amalgam restorations are not created equal.
Up until twenty? years ago, a dentist mixed his own amalgam, measuring out the mercury and the metal alloy powder. Nowadays, they come in precisely pre-measured packages. I note that the tooth used for this demonstration was from that earlier era. If there was too much mercury at the start, it would continue to emit the excess for an extended period.
Second, there is a significant effect of the dentist. I don't have the paper in front of me, but I recall a side-by-side comparison of identical materials, tooth being restored, blah blah, the only variable being dentist technique, and the mercury emissions differed by up to 10-fold across diffent dentists. One uncontrolled variable is the oral environment itself.....differing saliva composition and bacterial flora do have some influence, also.
I don't mean to take away from the message of this video. It's just that individual experience depends on so many variables, including mercury sensitivity.
Regards,
Lar
Posted by bleauberry on January 15, 2009, at 17:52:04
In reply to Re: What's the deal with silver amalgams? » bleauberry, posted by Larry Hoover on January 13, 2009, at 19:17:24
Larry,
I think you'll find Amalgam Illness fascinating. It is a lot more than one might predict.
DMSA can be ordered as an FDA approved non-prescription medicine in the USA. Go to Vitamin Research Products, and then type DMSA into their search box.
If you ever have any questions on the topic, on dosing strategies, on other forums that specialize in chelation, or anything like that, let me know.
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