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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sissy35 on January 6, 2009, at 23:28:35
Hello fellow Parnate adventurers,
Please forgive my spelling I have MS and spelling is no longer on my can do list. And to think I graduated from college with high honors just to become stupid. LOL You have to deal or hang it up.
I am new here, but I have been reading your posts for the last couple of months thank goodness, or the Parnate would be down the john after 2 days.
My Story is very long but not to worry I will just do the highlights. I started taking meds when I was 6yrs old (They were The best too. Wish I knew what they were.} I had severe phobias at the time. Over the years they would come and go, until I hit my 20s. Bang! total agoraphobia. OCD, the works, didn't leave the house for 2yrs! With valium and a book I read (mostly the book) I was totally cured within 3 months and stayed that way for close to 20yrs with the help of Nardil. It stopped working for me completely. Still no OCD or phobias, but depressed you bet.
I have been the full gambit over the yrs of the new and old meds. no help. So decided I must try Parnate again, It was and is my last hope.
During all those yrs I managed to escape any depression, or else I was too scared to even realize it. I was DXed with MS and hypothroidism in 1998, boy I sure know depression now. Depression is a symtom of both diseases. Lucky me.
On to parnate. I also stated taking it in December, just couldn't take another year of this. I currently take 40mg and thaught I had made it. NOT!!!! For a few days I felt like a kid again.
My fear is that because I took Nardil for so many years that might interfere with the action of parnate. The side effects are so much milder than nardil. I do remember nardil took quite awhile to work also, but I wasn't depressed at the time. Not for the first 10yrs anyway.Please any help or encouragement would greatly be appreciated.
Thank you
Sissy35
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2009, at 10:53:23
In reply to JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 6, 2009, at 23:28:35
I'm not Jade but welcome to babble. So sorry for the MS is it in remission? I also know the hypothyroid as also have that and know the anxiety depression from fluxuating thyroid hormores. What med do you take for that? I had to comment as I was wondering if you had ever had lymes disease as a child before the MS and hypothyroidism? Seems they test for both MS and autoimmune diseases if you've had it. Also at such a tender age you've already been on nardil and Parnate? Did you try other meds first? Phillipa
Posted by Sissy35 on January 7, 2009, at 20:16:32
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2009, at 10:53:23
Thank you for replying to my post. I didn't think anyone would answer. You are so kind.
I have not gotten this thyroid thing under control yet. I take Levoththyroxine and Cytomel.
Lev makes me more depressed and I had great hopes for Cyt but I had to stop taking it when I started parnate. My heart was just racing, plus I am an old bird.My mother had MS (the old bat) so I believe I got it from her. No more remissions for me. I have had MS at least from the age of 17 because I went totally blind for 3 months. Get this the doc said it was just a female problem. I am in the progressive stage of MS now. Still walking!!!
My main concern now is being on nardil for so long I am afraid parnate will not work for me.
Sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 23:57:31
In reply to JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 6, 2009, at 23:28:35
> Hello fellow Parnate adventurers,
Hi Sissy, thats a nice way to put it!
>
> Please forgive my spelling I have MS and spelling is no longer on my can do list. And to think I graduated from college with high honors just to become stupid. LOL You have to deal or hang it up.Two things: you haven't seen bad spelling until you look around the board a bit. I don't think it's a priority!
"LOL You have to deal or hang it up" Glad to see you have a sense of humor. Its gotten me thru some hard times.
I am new here, but I have been reading your posts for the last couple of months thank goodness, or the Parnate would be down the john after 2 days.
Well, glad your here, glad your parnates here, and hope you find the information you're looking for.
>My Story is very long but not to worry I will just do the highlights. I started taking meds when I was 6yrs old (They were The best too. Wish I knew what they were.} I had severe phobias at the time. Over the years they would come and go, until I hit my 20s. Bang! total agoraphobia. OCD, the works, didn't leave the house for 2yrs! With valium and a book I read (mostly the book) I was totally cured within 3 months and stayed that way for close to 20yrs with the help of Nardil. It stopped working for me completely. Still no OCD or phobias, but depressed you bet.
> I have been the full gambit over the yrs of the new and old meds. no help. So decided I must try Parnate again,Do you mean try a MAOI again? I believe you said you were on Nardil all those years.
It was and is my last hope.
> During all those yrs I managed to escape any depression, or else I was too scared to even realize it. I was DXed with MS and hypothroidism in 1998, boy I sure know depression now. Depression is a symtom of both diseases. Lucky me.I'm sorry you are having to deal with that, must have felt like you got clobbered. You are in good company. I'll leave it at that as you will see for yourself if you stick around. This is a great place to get answers, help those you can, and not feel alone on a crappy day!
>
On to parnate. I also stated taking it in December, just couldn't take another year of this. I currently take 40mg and thaught I had made it. NOT!!!! For a few days I felt like a kid again.Two things happen to a lot of Parnate users: Soon after you start, mine was in a week, I felt GREAT. Almost euphoric and I thought great! I could definatley live happily ever after like this. But that is a short lived "rush" that is common to Parnate. In addition, you may or may not feel that same "rush" each time you increase your dose. Those only last about two days, I had them, so do many others. What they mean? I don't know. I believe its a side effect that happens to be enjoyable, imagine that.
>My fear is that because I took Nardil for so many years that might interfere with the action of parnate. The side effects are so much milder than nardil. I do remember nardil took quite awhile to work also, but I wasn't depressed at the
time. Not for the first 10yrs anyway.
>I see people go from Nardil to Parnate ALL the time. I've seen people go straight from Nardil to Parnate, Ive seen people who've been off Nardil for a while start a Parnate trial. There are differences between the two and I see no reason why Parnate would not work for you as a result of past Nardil use. I think the only way you're going to find out is to give it a trial. You say you don't mind the s/e's, you responded and got the "rush" maybe that means something. If you did that well on Nardil, I would say go for it. But I geuss you already did!
There are a lot of people that have experience with or are currently using Parnate on the medical board. If you're scared you won't get answers to Parnate questions, not likely! If something comes up that isn't easily answered, there are people who know a lot more than I and we will just have to find them!
> Please any help or encouragement would greatly be appreciated.
>
> Thank you
> Sissy35Hope I have been of help, and that others join in. If you still have a question that is not getting answered, we can run a thread. I'm geussing your fear is a result of trying a new drug? You have already begun to use Parnate so I'll have to assume you have that worked that out with your PDoc/Doc.
Good Luck!
~Jade
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 8, 2009, at 1:52:49
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Phillipa, posted by Sissy35 on January 7, 2009, at 20:16:32
Hi, I was on Nardil for a year which worked somewhat for social anxiety and depression but still I would have weeks where I couldn't leave my house. side effects weighed more then any good Nardil could do even at 105mg/day. Ive been on Parnate for 5 months now and find it much much better then Nardil because it gives me alot more motivation and interest. I switched overnight. From 105mg Nardil and the next day straight to 40mgParnate. I felt no withdrawl from Nardil. I am now at 70mg/day Parnate.
Start up side effects from Parnate:
- euphoria, happyness, remission and hypomania at each 10mg dose increase which would last 3 days as I journeyed up to 70mg/s.
- insomnia (now I NEED a sleeping pill)
- minor jaw clenching.Pros compared to Nardil:
- Interest, motivation, clarity, more energy and overstimulated emotions making me feel very human (good but you I needed to get used to the return of emotions which have been dulled over the past 7 years from other antidepressants).
- no weight gain, actually lossing the weight gain from Nardil.
- Nardil had bad tasting pills and I could smell it coming out of my body, Parnate has none of this.
- Havent even come close to lying on the couch at home for a week. STill a day here and there tho.
- I looked drugged on Nardil. Parnate I look bright eyed and attentive..Im aiming at raising it to 80mg/day in hopes of better antianxiety effect. Parnate already has better antianxiety then Nardil but Im still working ot getting more out of Parnate.
I definitely say give it a try. the swap is easy and Parnate hits the neuros differently, especially raising Epinephrine alot more then Nardil.
Posted by Sissy35 on January 8, 2009, at 14:27:21
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 8, 2009, at 1:52:49
Thank you so much for your reply. I really needed to hear from someone that had been on nardil before trying parnate. I also switched from nardil to parnate without waiting. The doc told me it was ok. I had tried it before anyway so I was'nt worried about that.
Reading your prior posts is one thing that kept me going especially during my I don't care about nothing phase at 30mg. that was as bad as being depressed.
I am so used to taking the lowest dose of anything that I would never have upped the dose.
The fact that I am actully writing on this board shows me something is working.
I know I have a ways to go because I am not comfortabe in my own skin yet or feeling like myself yet, but it is better.
QUESTION
Is it Gabba that is in nardil and not parnate?
that worried me the most. What if it was the gabba effect that helped me for so long.thank you
sissy35
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2009, at 23:01:30
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Phillipa, posted by Sissy35 on January 7, 2009, at 20:16:32
Sissy sorry about the levo having some trouble myself with that. MS I do believe is an autoimmune disease and that might make it hereditary. Been in any remissions from MS? That can and does occurr. Glad I gave you some hope!!!! Love and hugs Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on January 9, 2009, at 1:00:34
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » ParnateStarted2008, posted by Sissy35 on January 8, 2009, at 14:27:21
> Thank you so much for your reply. I really needed to hear from someone that had been on nardil before trying parnate. I also switched from nardil to parnate without waiting. The doc told me it was ok. I had tried it before anyway so I was'nt worried about that.
> Reading your prior posts is one thing that kept me going especially during my I don't care about nothing phase at 30mg. that was as bad as being depressed.
> I am so used to taking the lowest dose of anything that I would never have upped the dose.
> The fact that I am actully writing on this board shows me something is working.
> I know I have a ways to go because I am not comfortabe in my own skin yet or feeling like myself yet, but it is better.
> QUESTION
> Is it Gabba that is in nardil and not parnate?
> that worried me the most. What if it was the gabba effect that helped me for so long.
>
> thank you
> sissy35
Hi Sissy,I actually don't know the answer to that question but we can certainly find out! I'll get back to you about it, if in the mean time it is really bothering you I imagine you could google it to find out something. Between the 2 of us we'll get the answer soon! Hope you are feeling better.
~Jade
Posted by desolationrower on January 9, 2009, at 15:17:20
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 9, 2009, at 1:00:34
Yes, nardil has an effect on gaba (raises level of it by preventing breakdown). Both drugs have several effects that are not shared by the other. glad you're seeing some improvement.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on January 9, 2009, at 22:35:01
In reply to JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 6, 2009, at 23:28:35
Sissy, I just saw a posting from someone who follows Parnate, and he says there have been recent quality studies that show Parnate to have Gaba re-uptake properties. I can't provide documentation of these studies but I think this a good sign.
Hope you are feeling well today!
~Jade
Posted by Sissy35 on January 10, 2009, at 0:15:39
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 9, 2009, at 22:35:01
Thank you Jade you are a jewel
Sissy35
Posted by desolationrower on January 10, 2009, at 1:30:04
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 9, 2009, at 22:35:01
> Sissy, I just saw a posting from someone who follows Parnate, and he says there have been recent quality studies that show Parnate to have Gaba re-uptake properties. I can't provide documentation of these studies but I think this a good sign.
>
> Hope you are feeling well today!
>
> ~Jadehas it been published yet?
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 14:30:54
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by desolationrower on January 10, 2009, at 1:30:04
> > Sissy, I just saw a posting from someone who follows Parnate, and he says there have been recent quality studies that show Parnate to have Gaba re-uptake properties. I can't provide documentation of these studies but I think this a good sign.
> >
> > Hope you are feeling well today!
> >
> > ~Jade
>
> has it been published yet?
>
> -d/r
>Hi Sissy,
I think D/R wants me to clarify better what I meant when I said "I saw recent postings....and cannot provide documentation" That I am not aware of any published studies and cannot confirm these findings. (But I hope their true!) Hope you are well.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 18:04:56
In reply to JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 6, 2009, at 23:28:35
Hi Sissy,
Sorry to be selfish but I have a quick question for you! I post alot with Vincent who is also on Parnate until recently, but I saw your post saying that you feel a lot of tension in the evenings? Very strange timing because that just started happening to me in the last couple-few nights. For a little while its a panicky-tension that I can't figure out what the cause is.
My theories
1. A kind of withdrawal meaning its time to increase dose.(of Parnate)
2. Low blood sugar, as I'm not eating as much.
3. I take Ritalin, also, maybe too much stimulation (I only take 5mg 2XDay)
4. I started lithium about a week ago. Maybe side effects.Anyway, you are the only person I've talked to who has that evening tension. Figured anything out? I used to want to take a nap this time of day/eve.
Let me know if any of that makes sense to you and what you do for your tension.
Thanks!~Jade
Posted by Sissy35 on January 10, 2009, at 23:36:04
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 10, 2009, at 18:04:56
Hi Jade, your not selfish you are a fellow adventurer. I have been thinking about the same thing. When I increased to 40mg the sides seemed to abate. Now the tension is back but not as bad yet(hows that for negative thinking?) Not going to bed until 4am is my concern too. Thats been a bad habit of mine since I got really depressed. I wonder if I took it earlier in the day if that would help. When do you take your dosage?
Something else I thought of is my BP is really low at nite and maybe this has something to do with it. So I started taking salt tablets at nite. Its funny haven;t used a salt shaker in over 25yrs but can't remember why! The ole ears start ringing again (thanks to prozac 5yrs ago) I also have a hard time getting to sleep now where I didn't at 30mg. Could be from all the years of nardil
With MS I am not used to so much stimulation I think if I increased at this point I would become manic like when I take provigil for tiredness. That was with nardil don't know as if I would trust it with parnate, but then again I don't need it now. Close to manic already.
I just surfed the net low blood pressure can cause anxiety. I thaught I remembered reading that. I know low blood sugar can too. And even though I dont care to eat find myself starving in the evening.
So do we see if this subsides as our system gets used to new changes or try to increase? I know nardil was a good 3 month hall until things settled down I doubt parnate is any different.
I also never had problems with any high bp like this time. Broke the dang machine (bad girl)
I know asking my doc is a waste of time I doubt he knows anything about parnate. Heck i have been percribing for myself since I was in my 20s never trusted drs after i went blind for 3 mos and they tell me its female problems.
We will put our heads together & figure this thing out!!!!!!!
Sissy35
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 0:06:54
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 10, 2009, at 23:36:04
Sissy sorry to interrupt thread but something you just said stuck me low blood pressure causes anxiety? didn't know that will google it now. Prozac was bad med for you? Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on January 11, 2009, at 0:39:36
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et, posted by Sissy35 on January 10, 2009, at 23:36:04
Hi fellow adventurer,
I like the sound of that! Sounds optimistic. If we can all help each other with whatever puzzles come along, the more the merrier! Boy, we sound similar in our "traveling" patterns tho. I'm back to late nights. I DO get starving at night but I'm ashamed lots of times I'm just to lazy to fix anything. Or I haven't been to the Grocery and nothing sounds good. So I'm gonna work on that. I asked somebody in the know about that tension w/d feeling at times, I've been on my dose for almost a month.
So how are you holding up? Any new symptoms? I'm wondering, since you mentioned the tension, how long you have been at your current dose? I know You have said but are you at 30mg or 40mg? I'll get back to you about what the tension may mean compared to other explanations.
In the mean time, I'm sure we should eat our salt tablets, keep our elecrolites up (gatorade ha), and drink plenty of water. We should eat on time. We should go to bed early. AND I should remember that you taught a Dr. Burns course and all those "shoulds" are probably making you cringe! Sorry! Haha. I'll get back to you with what I find out re: W/D theory.
Your fellow traveler,
~Jade
Posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 11:53:48
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared(JadeKelly,et » Sissy35, posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 0:06:54
You bet prozac was bad. My ears started to ring loudly after the first pill and hasn't stopped in 5yrs. I never researched what could have caused this. It is kinda a moot point because I am stuck with it. Also I felt so tense I wanted to pull the hair out of my head. I don't do well on stimulating drugs. thats why I have concerns about parnate.
sissy34
Posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 18:56:50
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared/Phillipa » Phillipa, posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 11:53:48
Prozac when wasn't depressed first day wallpapered a foyer had the paper for three years. Day two was anxious and hadn't been at all, and day three panic set in. And three days of xanax low dose to get back to normal. It was horrible. Love Phillipa
Posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 21:48:08
In reply to Re: JUST STARTED PARNATE; Boy AM I Scared/Phillipa » Sissy35, posted by Phillipa on January 11, 2009, at 18:56:50
Will post in morning I promised myself I would stop staying up until 4am anymore. Now lets see if I stick to it.
Love you and Thank you all!!!!
ps Can you tell its kicking in LOLSissy35
Posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 1:29:46
In reply to Re: ADVENTURES IN PARNATE /NO MORE FEAR, posted by Sissy35 on January 11, 2009, at 21:48:08
Oh my poor Jade the Jewel that you are.
Does your hand hurt? I tried to worn you.Love and kiss the boo boo
Sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 9:12:43
In reply to Re: ADVENTURES IN PARNATE /NO MORE FEAR/Jade, posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 1:29:46
> Oh my poor Jade the Jewel that you are.
> Does your hand hurt? I tried to worn you.
>
> Love and kiss the boo boo
> Sissy35Haha,
You mean from being slapped? or from the two days of posting I just did to make sure we were covered? I can't win Sissy!!Thank you, it feels much better now :)
Did you get to bed before 4am? I actually made it before midnight! Don't ask me how. I think it catches up to me. And how are you feeling?
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 13:02:58
In reply to Re: ADVENTURES IN PARNATE /NO MORE FEAR/Jade, posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 1:29:46
Hi Sissy,
Wanted to get back to you before I get buzy! I "talked" to scott about the tension, and the fact that I've been at 60mg for 4 weeks, and whats interesting is that he says from what he's seen, if you add that tension, together with with the fact that I'm still dreaming, is a good indicater its time to go up. Apparently when you are in a therapeutic range, you no longer dream!!!
Thats okay with me because my dreams are usually nightmares. Anyway, thought that interesting. He does prefice that with "its conjecture on his part". But, he's seen a lot. Talk with you soon.
~Jade- the little jewel? Is that how it goes? I feel good every time I see it :*)
Posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 16:49:37
In reply to Re: ADVENTURES IN PARNATE /NO MORE FEAR/Jade » sissy35, posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 13:02:58
I did really good last nite in bed by 3:55am. got to take baby steps here.
As far as what Scott says I am sure he is right. The guy is really smart! I trust him. As for me I may be ready for a maintience dosage. I am so high on 60mg a day. It could fade though. What do I know I am a traveler while Scott already got to the top of the mountain. But I feel the same way I did when nardil was working. Maybe switching so fast I didn't lose anything from the nardil and just gained from the parnate. I could be full of pie filling too.
After all you had 10 really good days than bam so It could happen to me too. Just gotta go with the flow and play it as it comes I guess.
Oh found a great way to keep blood sugar up and the hungries satisfied when I don't want to eat.
I got some ensure and some slimfast bars. Down in a flash.
I hope your hand is better(didn't know you had 2 slaps)Jade the little jewel. Plus all that posting. I tried to post as much as I could too.
One problem: don't agree with this public handslapping and public blocking. I always infrom the people in private. Doesn't seem like a good idea when so many are depressed and some are really fragile. Now watch me get it!talk at you soon jade the little jewel
sissy35
Posted by JadeKelly on January 12, 2009, at 17:27:46
In reply to Re: ADVENTURES IN PARNATE /NO MORE FEAR/Jade » JadeKelly, posted by sissy35 on January 12, 2009, at 16:49:37
> I did really good last nite in bed by 3:55am. got to take baby steps here.
> As far as what Scott says I am sure he is right. The guy is really smart! I trust him. As for me I may be ready for a maintience dosage. I am so high on 60mg a day. It could fade though. What do I know I am a traveler while Scott already got to the top of the mountain. But I feel the same way I did when nardil was working. Maybe switching so fast I didn't lose anything from the nardil and just gained from the parnate. I could be full of pie filling too.
> After all you had 10 really good days than bam so It could happen to me too. Just gotta go with the flow and play it as it comes I guess.
> Oh found a great way to keep blood sugar up and the hungries satisfied when I don't want to eat.
> I got some ensure and some slimfast bars. Down in a flash.
> I hope your hand is better(didn't know you had 2 slaps)Jade the little jewel. Plus all that posting. I tried to post as much as I could too.
> One problem: don't agree with this public handslapping and public blocking. I always infrom the people in private. Doesn't seem like a good idea when so many are depressed and some are really fragile. Now watch me get it! > talk at you soon jade the little jewel
> sissy35Sissy,
you are a breath of fresh air. First, you just made me really hungry for pie! haha. And no, if you are feeling good at your dose you shouldn't go higher. Save that for if you need it! Ensure and SlimFast, I used to eat protien bars but stopped because of the soy protien. Have you been eating those without incident? I'll have to get a few boxes (for when I don't have any pie!)
Yeah, I think some get really upset. I'm just a little angry about the whole mess thats been made. I geuss if I don't like it I can take a break. I feel like I help people though and why shouldn't they get what I contribute because I'm angry at a few? I don't know. Anyway, good for you!! 3:55am? I think I'm gonna cry sniff sniff, I'm so proud! So wish me luck as up I go on my dose TODAY! :)
~Jade the little jewel~ that makes me smile
>
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